Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #29649

Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations

Path csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations
Date Sat, 9 May 2020 09:52:43 +0200
Lines 30
Message-ID <r95uhb.12c.1@stefan.msgid.phost.de> (permalink)
References <r8uo2j$4l2$1@solani.org> <r8upn1$89t$1@reader2.panix.com> <r8urd0$7el$1@solani.org> <r8uuj1$3j8$1@reader2.panix.com> <r91ibh.48o.1@stefan.msgid.phost.de> <r91fqu$kk0$1@reader2.panix.com> <r94561.46o.1@stefan.msgid.phost.de> <r93vga$fiq$1@reader2.panix.com>
Mime-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding 7bit
X-Trace individual.net VSJK/oTFy6m7iRfaDgub6gyK1MIttO1/vRtv/w91NtbdbyqGS+
Cancel-Lock sha1:UEwEM6G+IUO/VuMAZU0MP1+/Fmw=
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 Hamster/2.1.0.1538
In-Reply-To <r93vga$fiq$1@reader2.panix.com>
Xref csiph.com comp.arch.embedded:29649

Show key headers only | View raw

Am 08.05.2020 um 17:56 schrieb Grant Edwards:
> On 2020-05-08, Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> wrote:
>> The point I tried to make is that there's little reason to worry
>> that there is a compiler that links in all of libc if memcpy is
>> used, because compilers have a means of linking these functions as
>> needed.
>>
>> TL;DR: I don't see any technical roadblocks that would prevent
>> requiring more utility functions for a freestanding implementation.
> 
> What's the benefit of requiring extra stuff for a freestanding
> iplementation?

Making the "freestanding" subset more useful.

It probably depends on what one considers the mission of a freestanding
implementation. I had considered the primary objective to be: run
without any operating system support. Things like 'memcpy' or 'strlen',
even 'sprintf', can be implemented in pure C without any operating
system support (needing just a little implementation knowledge like "how
to stringify a pointer" in 'sprintf', or "how to detect overlap" in
'memmove'). Therefore, adding those functions does not constrain the
environment such an implementation could run on.

If one instead considers a freestanding implementation to be just a
portable assembler to turn logic into machine code and otherwise get out
of my way, leaving out 'memcpy' & friends is plausible.


  Stefan

Back to comp.arch.embedded | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 18:19 +0200
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 16:47 +0000
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 19:16 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 18:10 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-06 15:10 -0400
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 16:08 -0400
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-06 13:22 -0700
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 22:29 -0400
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 15:43 +0200
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:36 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 20:57 +0000
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-06 23:25 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 21:34 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:17 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:45 +0300
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:16 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-07 21:39 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:44 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-05-07 12:54 -0700
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:34 +0200
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 09:13 +0300
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:47 +0300
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 15:51 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-08 10:09 +0300
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-07 18:00 +0200
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 17:17 +0000
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 20:23 +0200
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-08 17:33 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 15:56 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:31 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 18:53 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:32 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 00:13 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-08 18:45 -0400
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 22:59 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-09 08:29 -0400
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-09 20:15 +0300
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-10 12:37 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-09 09:52 +0200
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2020-05-08 18:48 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2020-05-08 17:01 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200

csiph-web