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Totally OT: Water tank weirdness

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  Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-05-17 12:37 +1000
    Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Noddy <me@home.com> - 2022-05-17 12:53 +1000
      Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-05-17 13:39 +1000
        Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Noddy <me@home.com> - 2022-05-17 20:30 +1000
      Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2022-05-17 15:57 +1000
      Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 11:24 +1000
    Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2022-05-17 14:10 +1000
    Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 11:08 +1000
      Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-05-18 12:46 +1000
        Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2022-05-18 13:43 +1000
        Re: Totally OT: Water tank weirdness "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 14:32 +1000

#35498 — Totally OT: Water tank weirdness

The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into 
the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With 
showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming 
from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but 
nothing was apparently amiss.

In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot 
water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there 
because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling 
reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally 
presumed was unused.

It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I 
was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the 
house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot 
water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element 
goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a 
hissing noise.

Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer 
noise, searching under the house without success.

My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really 
unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one 
part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water 
output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it 
goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into 
the bath.

All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the 
leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is 
the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well 
attached to the framework, and that the tank leak changed the hammer 
pattern enough for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof 
space which is then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in 
the ceiling trim.

On one level, this seems rather far-fetched. Yet the coincidence in 
timing is remarkable.

Sylvia.

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#35499

On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I 
> was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the 
> house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot 
> water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element 
> goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a 
> hissing noise.

The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used. 
I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the 
property?

If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have 
been cut and capped off....


-- 
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

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#35500

On 17-May-22 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

> 
> The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used. 
> I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the 
> property?
>

The tank in the garage is the current hot water storage tank/heater.

Sylvia.

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#35503

On 17/05/2022 1:39 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 17-May-22 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> 
>>
>> The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being 
>> used. I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere 
>> else on the property?
>>
> 
> The tank in the garage is the current hot water storage tank/heater.

Get a plumber to disconnect the water supply to the old rood mounted 
tank if it's not done already.



-- 
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

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#35502

On 17/5/2022 12:53 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> 
>> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As 
>> I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of 
>> the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the 
>> hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating 
>> element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was 
>> making a hissing noise.
> 
> The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used. 
> I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the 
> property?
> 
> If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have 
> been cut and capped off....
> 
> 
Darren, I'm shocked! You've posted a reasonable response, one I could 
agree with, and not a sign of your usual hate filled vitriol and 
invective. Keep it up, it might be a harbinger of a new you, and not 
before time.

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

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#35505

On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:53:07 +1000, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:

> On 17/05/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I  
>> was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the  
>> house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot  
>> water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element  
>> goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a  
>> hissing noise.

> The tank shouldn't be under any pressure at all if it's not being used.

Its the new tank in the garage that is under pressure and is leaking,  
stupid.

> I presume you have a more modern hot water service somewhere else on the  
> property?

> If you do, then the supply and feed pipes to this old lump should have  
> been cut and capped off....

They have and she says that.

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#35501

On 17/5/2022 12:37 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into 
> the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With 
> showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming 
> from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but 
> nothing was apparently amiss.
> 
> In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot 
> water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there 
> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling 
> reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally 
> presumed was unused.
> 
> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I 
> was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the 
> house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot 
> water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element 
> goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a 
> hissing noise.
> 
> Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer 
> noise, searching under the house without success.
> 
> My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really 
> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one 
> part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water 
> output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it 
> goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into 
> the bath.
> 
> All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the 
> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is 
> the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well 
> attached to the framework, and that the tank leak changed the hammer 
> pattern enough for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof 
> space which is then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in 
> the ceiling trim.
> 
> On one level, this seems rather far-fetched. Yet the coincidence in 
> timing is remarkable.
> 

If you can access the other end of the pipe in question it should be 
easy enough to cut and cap it.
Is it copper or gal? A plumber shouldn't charge too much to do a simple 
job like that if you can't do it yourself.
Does your bathroom have a ceiling fan?
If so that the most likely place the dust will be coming from, newer 
ceiling fans have a flap that closes when the fan is not in use so 
fitting a new ceiling fan should solve the dust problem.
You could also use No More Gaps to seal "a small gap in the ceiling trim".


-- 
Daryl

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#35504

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

> The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into  
> the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With  
> showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't coming  
> from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the bathroom, but  
> nothing was apparently amiss.
>
> In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the hot  
> water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there  
> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling  
> reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally  
> presumed was unused.
>
> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As I  
> was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of the  
> house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the hot  
> water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating element  
> goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was making a  
> hissing noise.
>
> Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer  
> noise, searching under the house without success.
>
> My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really  
> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that one  
> part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot water  
> output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And where it  
> goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is falling into  
> the bath.
>
> All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the  
> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this is  
> the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not well  
> attached to the framework,

That's not the reason for water hammer.

> and that the tank leak changed the hammer  pattern enough

Due to air getting in.

> for the pipe to disturb different dust/grit in the roof space which is  
> then able to enter the bathroom through a small gap in the ceiling trim.

The fix is to fix the leak, fill the small gap in the ceiling trim.

> On one level, this seems rather far-fetched.

Nope, water hammer moves the dust and dirt off the pipe.

> Yet the coincidence in  timing is remarkable.

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#35506

On 18-May-22 11:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> 
>> The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into 
>> the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With 
>> showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't 
>> coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the 
>> bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.
>>
>> In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the 
>> hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there 
>> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling 
>> reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally 
>> presumed was unused.
>>
>> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As 
>> I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of 
>> the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the 
>> hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating 
>> element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was 
>> making a hissing noise.
>>
>> Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer 
>> noise, searching under the house without success.
>>
>> My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really 
>> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that 
>> one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot 
>> water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And 
>> where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is 
>> falling into the bath.
>>
>> All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the 
>> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this 
>> is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not 
>> well attached to the framework,
> 
> That's not the reason for water hammer.
> 
>> and that the tank leak changed the hammer  pattern enough
> 
> Due to air getting in.
> 

Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in. 
Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.

Sylvia.

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#35507

On Wed, 18 May 2022 12:46:14 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

>On 18-May-22 11:08 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>> 
>>> The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into 
>>> the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With 
>>> showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't 
>>> coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the 
>>> bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.
>>>
>>> In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the 
>>> hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there 
>>> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling 
>>> reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally 
>>> presumed was unused.
>>>
>>> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As 
>>> I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of 
>>> the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the 
>>> hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating 
>>> element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was 
>>> making a hissing noise.
>>>
>>> Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer 
>>> noise, searching under the house without success.
>>>
>>> My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really 
>>> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that 
>>> one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot 
>>> water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And 
>>> where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is 
>>> falling into the bath.
>>>
>>> All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the 
>>> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this 
>>> is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not 
>>> well attached to the framework,
>> 
>> That's not the reason for water hammer.
>> 
>>> and that the tank leak changed the hammer  pattern enough
>> 
>> Due to air getting in.
>> 
>
>Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in. 
>Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.
>
>Sylvia.

If it's that "machine-gun" hammer when the tap is turned on, take it
apart and wrap Teflon tape around the washer spindle to reduce the
clearance.  
Of course a new tap would be better.

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#35508

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

>>> The problem started with the appearance of dust and grit falling into  
>>> the bath. It was not at all obvious where it was coming from. With  
>>> showers being preferred, the bath is little used, so this wasn't  
>>> coming from the taps. I climbed into the roof space above the  
>>> bathroom, but nothing was apparently amiss.
>>>
>>> In the roof space there is an old tank, which I surmise was once the  
>>> hot water tank. It has long been unused, and was presumably left there  
>>> because it would be difficult to remove, and there was no compelling  
>>> reason to do so. There is also some pipework that I had originally  
>>> presumed was unused.
>>>
>>> It's very dusty up there, and I have to wear a proper filter mask. As  
>>> I was returning the mask to the garage area below the living area of  
>>> the house, where I keep such things, I heard a noise coming from the  
>>> hot water tank. Turned out there was a leak from where the heating  
>>> element goes in. Given that the tank is under pressure, the leak was  
>>> making a hissing noise.
>>>
>>> Now, some years ago, I tried to trace the origin of the water-hammer  
>>> noise, searching under the house without success.
>>>
>>> My visit to the roof space made me wonder whether that pipe was really  
>>> unused. Indeed it appears to have been sealed off. I now think that  
>>> one part of it goes down the wall into the garage area to join the hot  
>>> water output, with the other part heading down to the laundry. And  
>>> where it goes down the wall is close to where the dust and grit is  
>>> falling into the bath.
>>>
>>> All of which makes me think that the dust and grit in the bath and the  
>>> leak in the hot water tank are not unrelated. My theory is that this  
>>> is the pipe that makes the water-hammer noise, given that it's not  
>>> well attached to the framework,
>>  That's not the reason for water hammer.
>>
>>> and that the tank leak changed the hammer  pattern enough

>>  Due to air getting in.

> Given that the tank is under pressure, I can't see how air could get in.

> Any hole results in water coming out, not air going in.

Its more complicated than that, there is air at the top of the hot water  
cylinder.

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