Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > aus.cars > #371883 > unrolled thread

Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations

Started byKeithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au>
First post2024-12-18 09:58 +1000
Last post2024-12-24 20:37 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 452 — 16 participants

Back to article view | Back to aus.cars


Contents

  Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-18 09:58 +1000
    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-18 12:19 +1100
      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-18 15:56 +1100
        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-18 16:38 +1100
        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-18 21:13 +1100
          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 08:19 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-18 23:10 +0000
              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 15:25 +1100
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-19 16:36 +1100
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 16:41 +1100
                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 16:57 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-19 17:06 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 17:53 +1100
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 20:03 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-19 20:46 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 05:34 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 10:17 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 13:34 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 21:26 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-19 21:55 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 23:17 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 10:14 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 11:34 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 12:39 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 23:17 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations RevKev <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 07:30 +1000
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-23 19:55 +1000
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 21:54 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 22:27 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-24 08:07 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-24 16:24 +0800
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:03 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-25 08:35 +0800
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-27 07:05 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-27 10:28 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-27 12:05 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-27 12:45 +0800
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 16:26 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 12:40 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 19:36 +1000
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:58 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 22:01 +1000
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:04 +1100
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 07:11 +1000
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-19 20:40 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 07:10 +1000
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 08:25 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 10:28 +1100
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 07:05 +1000
                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 08:31 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 08:46 +1000
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 14:05 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 14:27 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 14:30 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:37 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 20:55 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:35 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 11:27 +1100
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 12:38 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 12:50 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 14:00 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:00 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:43 +1100
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Ralph <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 12:27 +1000
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 14:02 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 14:33 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 14:48 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 15:21 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:56 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 20:48 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 21:12 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 22:46 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 06:50 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 09:00 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 11:20 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 12:18 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:18 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 20:46 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 21:08 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 22:32 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 23:00 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 23:38 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 06:43 +1000
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 06:53 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 09:15 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 10:38 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 11:32 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 00:48 +0000
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 12:19 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 13:18 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 13:59 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 15:39 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 15:44 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 17:58 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:47 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 19:34 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 19:41 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 20:39 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 20:48 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 23:27 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 00:06 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:36 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 17:20 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 17:56 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:37 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 12:36 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 12:57 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:58 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 14:22 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 16:05 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 16:57 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 20:37 +1000
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 14:45 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-23 21:26 +1000
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 22:31 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 15:48 +1000
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 17:18 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 19:38 +1000
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:27 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 21:47 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 23:09 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:57 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:51 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:56 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 22:19 +1000
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 13:00 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-23 20:49 +1000
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 22:19 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 23:44 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 12:57 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 13:18 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 14:09 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 19:36 +1000
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:26 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 22:09 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 22:05 +1000
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:08 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 22:26 +1000
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 23:49 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 12:52 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 09:32 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 10:29 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 20:42 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 20:50 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 22:54 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 23:03 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 23:42 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 06:48 +1000
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-23 20:34 +1000
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 16:06 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 17:01 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 18:21 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 20:51 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 22:13 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-20 22:51 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 12:30 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 13:24 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-21 13:32 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 14:07 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 15:42 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 17:56 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:36 +1100
        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-18 21:29 +1100
          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-18 22:15 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-18 12:53 +0000
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 00:05 +1100
          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 08:21 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 10:07 +1100
              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-18 23:18 +0000
        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2024-12-19 07:54 +0800
          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 15:20 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-19 15:59 +1100
              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-19 16:57 +1100
              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-23 19:38 +0800
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-24 08:10 +1100
                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 10:52 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-19 16:30 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-19 16:39 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-19 20:30 +1100
            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 07:39 +1000
              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 08:52 +1100
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 08:50 +1000
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-20 10:35 +1100
                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-20 13:42 +1100
                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-23 19:54 +0800
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 23:48 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-23 21:07 +0800
                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-24 08:17 +1100
                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 11:06 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-24 08:52 +0800
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 13:11 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 15:06 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-24 16:32 +0800
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-24 16:26 +0800
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-25 19:08 +1100
                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-25 19:12 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 22:20 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-27 07:07 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-27 09:40 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-27 10:31 +1100
                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-25 22:54 +1100
                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-27 07:07 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-27 09:27 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 12:36 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-27 10:39 +1100
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-27 07:51 +0800
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 12:40 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 11:00 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 11:14 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-29 15:23 +0800
                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-27 20:32 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-27 20:55 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-27 21:04 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 21:30 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 21:23 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 14:36 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 14:45 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-27 21:20 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 14:32 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 14:47 +1100
                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-28 08:19 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 09:26 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 10:13 +1100
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 10:21 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-28 10:56 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 11:59 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 12:11 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 01:48 +0000
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Argon <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 13:30 +1000
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 14:50 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 14:52 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-28 11:54 +0800
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 15:13 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:05 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 17:10 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 19:54 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 20:25 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:25 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:28 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 17:12 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 20:01 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 20:26 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 09:08 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 09:52 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 19:00 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 20:03 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 21:29 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 22:08 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 22:15 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations DaveW <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 06:58 +1000
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:55 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 17:10 +0800
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 21:16 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 19:28 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-29 05:58 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 09:21 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 09:40 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-29 09:40 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 12:17 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 12:04 +1000
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 13:36 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 13:28 +1000
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 19:20 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 11:50 +1000
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:33 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 17:48 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 18:09 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 10:16 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-31 12:19 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 10:57 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 09:38 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 10:48 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 11:03 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 11:11 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 12:08 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 16:04 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 16:11 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Kelvin <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 11:19 +1000
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-29 15:15 +0800
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 19:26 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 20:50 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 21:13 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 21:21 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 09:48 +0800
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:48 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:12 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:36 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:56 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 15:46 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 15:03 +1000
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 16:04 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 16:20 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 17:15 +0800
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 10:15 +1000
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 11:33 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 01:38 +0000
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 12:41 +1100
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 14:43 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-28 11:59 +0800
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:01 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 17:24 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-28 16:29 +0800
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-28 19:46 +1100
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-28 19:56 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-28 20:23 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 08:55 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-29 09:02 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 10:07 +1100
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-29 10:29 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 10:56 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 12:24 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-29 15:20 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 16:11 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 16:44 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 18:48 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 20:01 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-29 12:23 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-29 18:46 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 20:00 +1100
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-30 06:16 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 08:06 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 10:25 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 10:59 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 09:50 +0800
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:10 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 17:17 +0800
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:52 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 09:19 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 10:24 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 11:05 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 01:13 +0000
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 11:46 +1000
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 09:52 +0800
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:38 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:12 +1100
                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:47 +1000
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 15:23 +1100
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 15:47 +1100
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 21:04 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 21:21 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:25 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 00:27 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 01:22 +1100
                                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 09:56 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 10:30 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 10:59 +1100
                                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 11:17 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 10:47 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 09:14 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 10:31 +1100
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 20:52 +1000
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 00:28 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 18:02 +1100
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 20:51 +1000
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 22:26 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:40 +1100
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:34 +1100
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 09:23 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-31 12:17 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 17:25 +0800
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 20:56 +1000
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 19:54 +0800
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 21:58 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 00:37 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 08:25 +1000
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 00:31 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-31 11:42 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2025-01-01 09:20 +0800
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2025-01-01 19:26 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2025-01-02 08:35 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2025-01-02 08:31 +1000
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 08:04 +1000
                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:58 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 16:11 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 18:26 +1100
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 18:10 +1000
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 17:29 +0800
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 20:59 +1000
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 19:59 +0800
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-31 11:46 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2025-01-01 09:27 +0800
                                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2025-01-01 20:02 +1000
                                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 11:58 +1000
                                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2025-01-02 23:11 +0800
                                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations jonz <Nothere@overthere.com> - 2025-01-03 09:54 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2025-01-03 13:00 +1000
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:49 +1100
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:13 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:38 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 13:59 +1100
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:33 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2025-01-02 08:54 +1100
                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2025-01-02 13:12 +1100
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 17:54 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 18:14 +1100
                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 21:10 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 21:20 +1100
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 21:08 +1000
                                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 22:18 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:37 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-31 00:41 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 01:21 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 09:41 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 09:30 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 11:15 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 11:52 +1100
                                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 12:02 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-31 16:07 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-31 16:13 +1100
                                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 08:43 +1000
                                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:23 +1100
                                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 22:22 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 17:45 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:04 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:07 +1100
                                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-30 14:19 +1100
                                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:59 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-30 11:34 +1000
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-30 12:42 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-30 13:42 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:06 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:25 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations jonz <Nothere@overthere.com> - 2024-12-30 19:10 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:00 +1100
                                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:02 +1100
                                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-30 14:08 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-30 14:35 +1100
                                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 20:02 +0800
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 20:01 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 15:58 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 17:24 +1100
                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-29 09:15 +0800
                                              Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 16:01 +1100
                                                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 16:07 +1100
                                                  Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 16:18 +1100
                                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-29 15:17 +0800
                                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-29 18:39 +1100
                                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 +0800
                                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-29 22:11 +1100
                                                            Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-30 09:53 +0800
                                    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-28 11:51 +0800
                                      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 14:58 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2024-12-28 12:49 +0800
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 17:10 +1100
                                        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-28 16:00 +1100
                                          Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-28 17:11 +1100
                Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-20 11:32 +1100
    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-18 17:32 +1100
    Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 16:43 +1000
      Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2024-12-19 07:57 +0800
        Re: Honda and Nissan set to start merger negotiations Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:37 +1000

Page 7 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 23  Next page →


#372227

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 23:09 +1100
Message-ID<lsvmitFu970U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372216
On 24/12/2024 9:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 24/12/2024 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 24/12/2024 4:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
> 
>>> Yes, but for some time they ran grooved slicks. Like these:
>>>
>>>> https://sfcriga.com/images/others/sfcriga_formula-1-tyres-cars- 
>>>> shoes_photo42.jpg
>>>
>>> I don't know what they run today as I don't follow F1 these days, but 
>>> these grooved slicks were in use for some time and I wasn't sure of 
>>> what era you were talking about.
>>>
>>> You can also get an idea from that pic of the type of tyre profile 
>>> used in F1 for many years.
>>
>> That was years ago, they have been running full slicks for ages.
> 
> The point being their tyres are not "low profile" by any stretch.

Let's deal with the here and now.

The new F1 tire sizes for 2022 are 305/720R18 and 405/720R18.

That's roughly equal to 305/45R18 and 405/30R18.

Two points to note, they are both under 50% aspect ratio so that denotes 
them as a *low profile tyre*. Also, the rear tyres are significantly 
wider (25%) so end up with a lower (30%) aspect ratio than the front 
(45%). When you set up tyre profiles like this you are setting up 
greater slip angles at the front compared to that at the rear. That 
means the front will be less precise in the steering given there will be 
more flex in the sidewalls at the front with commensurately greater slip 
angles and greater understeer. The slip angles at the rear will be 
reduced and that that may lead to snap oversteer when, with reduced slip 
angles, the tyres meet their cornering force limit more suddenly. Maybe 
that's how they are getting the drivers to go slower??

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372219

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 21:57 +1100
Message-ID<lsvicdFtnuvU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372201
On 24/12/2024 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 24/12/2024 4:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 24/12/2024 4:48 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 23/12/2024 9:31 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>> A couple of years back, they did lower the profile, but I don't 
>>>>> think that it was to improve the cornering. In fact this was said 
>>>>> at the time "This is a lot more complicated than it seems. Most 
>>>>> analyses done by F1 suggest that all else being equal, the new tire 
>>>>> spec should slow the cars, initially, by as much as two seconds per 
>>>>> lap."
>>>>
>>>> I think you're talking about tread on tyres perhaps, which in effect 
>>>> reduced the width of the contact patch and gave the cars less grip.
>>>>
>>> There is no tread, the dry tyres are slicks.
>>
>> Yes, but for some time they ran grooved slicks. Like these:
>>
>>> https://sfcriga.com/images/others/sfcriga_formula-1-tyres-cars- 
>>> shoes_photo42.jpg
>>
>> I don't know what they run today as I don't follow F1 these days, but 
>> these grooved slicks were in use for some time and I wasn't sure of 
>> what era you were talking about.
>>
>> You can also get an idea from that pic of the type of tyre profile 
>> used in F1 for many years.
> 
> That was years ago, they have been running full slicks for ages.

Since 2008.


-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372178

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 18:51 +1100
Message-ID<lsv7ftFrrvnU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372169
On 24/12/2024 4:48 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:31 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 10:26 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 22/12/2024 11:36 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ask yourself a very simple question, and you can ask your clueless 
>>>> Porsche owning friend too, if you like. If low profile tyres made 
>>>> even a poofteenth's worth of difference to a vehicle's handling 
>>>> ability, why don't we see them used in Formula 1? This is a form of 
>>>> motor sport where teams will spend a hundred million dollars on wind 
>>>> tunnel testing different spoiler designs to gain a tenth of a second 
>>>> performance advantage, yet if low profile tyres offered an advantage 
>>>> it would be the cheapest lap time gain they could ever make.
>>>>
>>>> Yet they don't. Why is that, Trev?
>>>
>>> Largely because they can't. In F1, the FIA, the governing body, 
>>> define the tyres that can be used. Everything is defined the size, 
>>> the profile, the compounds and even the manufacturer, Pirelli P Zero.
>>
>> Yeah, that's a class restriction to eliminate performance advantages.
>>
>>> A couple of years back, they did lower the profile, but I don't think 
>>> that it was to improve the cornering. In fact this was said at the 
>>> time "This is a lot more complicated than it seems. Most analyses 
>>> done by F1 suggest that all else being equal, the new tire spec 
>>> should slow the cars, initially, by as much as two seconds per lap."
>>
>> I think you're talking about tread on tyres perhaps, which in effect 
>> reduced the width of the contact patch and gave the cars less grip.
>>
> There is no tread, the dry tyres are slicks.

Darren is pushing himself as an expert on F1 then comes up with that 
bullshit. Nah, I'm not amazed, I fully expected such bullshit from a 
pretender who puts up a pic of an F1 with a low profile tyre while 
trying to promulgate an argument that low profile tyres aren't suitable 
for F1.

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372218

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 21:56 +1100
Message-ID<lsvia9FtnuvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372169
On 24/12/2024 4:48 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:31 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 10:26 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 22/12/2024 11:36 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ask yourself a very simple question, and you can ask your clueless 
>>>> Porsche owning friend too, if you like. If low profile tyres made 
>>>> even a poofteenth's worth of difference to a vehicle's handling 
>>>> ability, why don't we see them used in Formula 1? This is a form of 
>>>> motor sport where teams will spend a hundred million dollars on wind 
>>>> tunnel testing different spoiler designs to gain a tenth of a second 
>>>> performance advantage, yet if low profile tyres offered an advantage 
>>>> it would be the cheapest lap time gain they could ever make.
>>>>
>>>> Yet they don't. Why is that, Trev?
>>>
>>> Largely because they can't. In F1, the FIA, the governing body, 
>>> define the tyres that can be used. Everything is defined the size, 
>>> the profile, the compounds and even the manufacturer, Pirelli P Zero.
>>
>> Yeah, that's a class restriction to eliminate performance advantages.
>>
>>> A couple of years back, they did lower the profile, but I don't think 
>>> that it was to improve the cornering. In fact this was said at the 
>>> time "This is a lot more complicated than it seems. Most analyses 
>>> done by F1 suggest that all else being equal, the new tire spec 
>>> should slow the cars, initially, by as much as two seconds per lap."
>>
>> I think you're talking about tread on tyres perhaps, which in effect 
>> reduced the width of the contact patch and gave the cars less grip.
>>
> There is no tread, the dry tyres are slicks.

I vaguely remember "grooved" dry tyres being a thing for few F1 seasons.
Found this on Wikipedia

"In 1998, grooved tyres were introduced with three groove lines in the 
front tyres and four groove lines in the rear tyres.[9] Between 1999 and 
2008, regulations required the tyres to feature a minimum of four 14 mm 
(0.55 in) grooves in them, with the intention of slowing the cars down. 
This is because a slick tyre, with no indentations, provides the most 
grip in dry conditions.[10][11] They could be no wider than 355 mm (14 
in) at the front and 380 mm (15 in) at the rear, and the maximum 
diameter was 660 mm (26 in), or 670 mm (26.4 in) for wet tyres.[12]"

-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372135

Fromalvey <Factman@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-23 22:19 +1000
Message-ID<vkbkg9$16slp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#372129
Keithr0 wrote:
> On 22/12/2024 11:36 am, Noddy wrote:
> 
>> Ask yourself a very simple question, and you can ask your clueless 
>> Porsche owning friend too, if you like. If low profile tyres made even 
>> a poofteenth's worth of difference to a vehicle's handling ability, 
>> why don't we see them used in Formula 1? This is a form of motor sport 
>> where teams will spend a hundred million dollars on wind tunnel 
>> testing different spoiler designs to gain a tenth of a second 
>> performance advantage, yet if low profile tyres offered an advantage 
>> it would be the cheapest lap time gain they could ever make.
>>
>> Yet they don't. Why is that, Trev?
> 
> Largely because they can't. In F1, the FIA, the governing body, define 
> the tyres that can be used. Everything is defined the size, the profile, 
> the compounds and even the manufacturer, Pirelli P Zero.
> 
> A couple of years back, they did lower the profile, but I don't think 
> that it was to improve the cornering. In fact this was said at the time 
> "This is a lot more complicated than it seems. Most analyses done by F1 
> suggest that all else being equal, the new tire spec should slow the 
> cars, initially, by as much as two seconds per lap."

I don't know about tyres, but Istr that FIA changed the rim size from 
13" to 18" a couple of years ago which was where the "2 sec per lap 
slower" quote came from. Maybe...


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372153

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 13:00 +1100
Message-ID<lsuiudForlcU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372129
On 23/12/2024 10:26 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 22/12/2024 11:36 am, Noddy wrote:
> 
>> Ask yourself a very simple question, and you can ask your clueless 
>> Porsche owning friend too, if you like. If low profile tyres made even 
>> a poofteenth's worth of difference to a vehicle's handling ability, 
>> why don't we see them used in Formula 1? This is a form of motor sport 
>> where teams will spend a hundred million dollars on wind tunnel 
>> testing different spoiler designs to gain a tenth of a second 
>> performance advantage, yet if low profile tyres offered an advantage 
>> it would be the cheapest lap time gain they could ever make.
>>
>> Yet they don't. Why is that, Trev?
> 
> Largely because they can't. In F1, the FIA, the governing body, define 
> the tyres that can be used. Everything is defined the size, the profile, 
> the compounds and even the manufacturer, Pirelli P Zero.
> 
> A couple of years back, they did lower the profile, but I don't think 
> that it was to improve the cornering. In fact this was said at the time 
> "This is a lot more complicated than it seems. Most analyses done by F1 
> suggest that all else being equal, the new tire spec should slow the 
> cars, initially, by as much as two seconds per lap."


The FIA keep trying to slow F1 cars down and then the engineers find way 
to make them faster despite the new rules.
Tyre tech in F1 is so different to road tyres about the only thing they 
have in common is that they are both round and black.

-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372123

FromKeithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au>
Date2024-12-23 20:49 +1000
Message-ID<lssth1FgfcvU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372000
On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:

> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?

Class rules?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372127

FromNoddy <me@home.com>
Date2024-12-23 22:19 +1100
Message-ID<vkbh04$164tg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#372123
On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
> 
>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
> 
> Class rules?

No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
ability to deal with impact.

It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design heavy 
emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce the 
amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with the 
road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in contact 
with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into big 
trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing all 
kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise that effect.

For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:

> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp

The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite large 
cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the combined 
brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front strut itself, 
and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel caused an over 
reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making the wheel bounce 
higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by moving the brake 
inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was significantly reduced and 
the reaction to bumps and ripple strips minimised. Even with the added 
weight of the of the half shaft between the brake and the front hub.

Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as weighted 
corners do. So they're not used very often.







-- 
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372137

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-23 23:44 +1100
Message-ID<lst49gFhn14U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372127
On 23/12/2024 10:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>
>> Class rules?
> 
> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
> ability to deal with impact.
> 
> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design heavy 
> emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce the 
> amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with the 
> road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in contact 
> with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into big 
> trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing all 
> kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise that effect.
> 
> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
> 
>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp

Red herring - the convo is about *tyres*, and specifically tyre profile, 
not brakes.
> 
> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite large 
> cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the combined 
> brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front strut itself, 
> and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel caused an over 
> reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making the wheel bounce 
> higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by moving the brake 
> inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was significantly reduced and 
> the reaction to bumps and ripple strips minimised. Even with the added 
> weight of the of the half shaft between the brake and the front hub.
> 
> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as weighted 
> corners do. So they're not used very often.

Hmmm, have you thought this through? Of course not! Thinking isn't your 
thing, cutting and pasting is! Hint, try to understand what you're 
cutting and pasting. Yes, it's hard but do try!

Anyway, I hate to be the one to break the bad news to you Darren but the 
tyre in your example looks like a *perfect example* of a low profile 
tyre. Not a lot of distance between the rim and the road.

Moving right along, there's this;

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/insiders-guide-what-are-f1s-tyre-rules/6885460/

Now, you can opt to just watch the videoclip or read the text instead. 
Darren, you stick with the video. As you have continually proven, text, 
especially text that contains big words or complex concepts, will serve 
only to confuse you. Anyway, the clue is in the link "F1s tyre rules". 
What happened in 2022? The rules were *changed*. From the above link;

    How big are F1 tyres and what do they weigh?

    F1 cars have run 13-inch wheels rims for years, with the
    diameter of the tyre and rim combination measuring 26.4
    inches (67cm). The fronts are 30.5cm wide and the rears
    are 40.5cm, with intermediates 5cm wider and full wets
    10cm wider.

    From 2022, the rim size will increase to 18 inches
    (45.7cm) but the tyre and rim diameter will only go up to
    28.3 inches (72cm). The lower profile design will change
    the way the cars behave on track, in theory making them
    even more responsive to changes of direction.

    Excluding the wheel rims, the front and rear tyres weigh
    9.5kg and 11.5kg respectively – about 1.5 times the weight
    of a bowling ball.

So Darren, a *rule change*, rim diameter up from 13" to 18"
while the tyre diameter goes up from 26.4" to 28.3". That's a 5 inch 
change to the rim diameter but less than a 2" change to the overall 
rim/tyre combo diameter. I'd say that has the makings of a low profile 
tyre, wouldn't you?
It looks very much like, in the light of your pic link, that in 71 low 
profile tyres were legal. Then the rules changed and they were no longer 
legal. In 2022, the rules changed again so low profile tyres were again 
legal.

So... all the bullshit you have written above is just that ... bullshit 
serving no purpose other than an attempt to impress others with your 
(ahem - Googled) knowledge.

But the important point made in the link *I supplied* is this;

    The lower profile design will change the way the cars behave
    on track, in theory making them even more responsive to
    changes of direction.

Now, didn't I say low profile tyres make the steering more *precise*? 
That increased preciseness translates to increased responsiveness in the 
steering. In this case, the theory translates to practice!

You really don't have a clue, do you Darren?

What worries me is that people might believe your claims to be a 
*qualified* motor mechanic/auto machinist and take you at your word.

Oh, hang about, that's already happened. Les believed your bullshit, 
your claims, your *lies*, and look what happened to his engine - totally 
destroyed! And it was oh so predictable!

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372152

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 12:57 +1100
Message-ID<lsuio3ForlcU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372127
On 23/12/2024 10:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>
>> Class rules?
> 
> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
> ability to deal with impact.
> 
> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design heavy 
> emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce the 
> amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with the 
> road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in contact 
> with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into big 
> trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing all 
> kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise that effect.
> 
> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
> 
>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp

Nice, brilliant design, probably a bastard to work on but it achieves 
its purpose.

> 
> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite large 
> cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the combined 
> brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front strut itself, 
> and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel caused an over 
> reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making the wheel bounce 
> higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by moving the brake 
> inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was significantly reduced and 
> the reaction to bumps and ripple strips minimised. Even with the added 
> weight of the of the half shaft between the brake and the front hub.
> 
> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as weighted 
> corners do. So they're not used very often.
> 
> 

Very good points, race tracks aren't always as smooth as we would like 
them to be.


-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372156

FromNoddy <me@home.com>
Date2024-12-24 13:18 +1100
Message-ID<vkd5l2$1gfdv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#372152
On 24/12/2024 12:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 10:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>
>>> Class rules?
>>
>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
>> ability to deal with impact.
>>
>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
>> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
>> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
>> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
>> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in 
>> contact with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into 
>> big trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing 
>> all kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise 
>> that effect.
>>
>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>
>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
> 
> Nice, brilliant design, probably a bastard to work on but it achieves 
> its purpose.

Yeah, Chapman came up with some very innovative designs that were 
usually ahead of the game and often copied by others. His one weakness 
was that he often under engineered things in a constant pursuit of 
reducing weight, and that led to a few people being killed as a result 
of failures.

>>
>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel 
>> caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making 
>> the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by 
>> moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was 
>> significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and ripple strips 
>> minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the half shaft between 
>> the brake and the front hub.
>>
>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
>> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
>> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as 
>> weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
> 
> Very good points, race tracks aren't always as smooth as we would like 
> them to be.

Not at all. That combined with the fact that at very high speed even 
small changes in the surface cause a large reaction in the car.


-- 
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372157

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 14:09 +1100
Message-ID<lsumvtFpmj1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372156
On 24/12/2024 1:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 24/12/2024 12:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 10:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>>
>>>> Class rules?
>>>
>>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their 
>>> poor ability to deal with impact.
>>>
>>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and 
>>> acceleration effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung 
>>> corner of the car weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing 
>>> the bounce as a wheel goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and 
>>> the more the control of the car is reduced when the contact patch of 
>>> the tyre is not in contact with the track. This has resulted in many 
>>> people getting into big trouble on race tracks all over the world, 
>>> and many people doing all kinds of weird and wonderful things over 
>>> the years to minimise that effect.
>>>
>>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>>
>>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
>>
>> Nice, brilliant design, probably a bastard to work on but it achieves 
>> its purpose.
> 
> Yeah, Chapman came up with some very innovative designs that were 
> usually ahead of the game and often copied by others. His one weakness 
> was that he often under engineered things in a constant pursuit of 
> reducing weight, and that led to a few people being killed as a result 
> of failures.
> 
>>>
>>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel 
>>> caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making 
>>> the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So 
>>> by moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was 
>>> significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and ripple strips 
>>> minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the half shaft 
>>> between the brake and the front hub.
>>>
>>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered 
>>> their ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a 
>>> race car they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact 
>>> as weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
>>
>> Very good points, race tracks aren't always as smooth as we would like 
>> them to be.
> 
> Not at all. That combined with the fact that at very high speed even 
> small changes in the surface cause a large reaction in the car.
> 
> 
Dumb and Dumber playing tag, always a hoot to watch!

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372200

FromKeithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 19:36 +1000
Message-ID<lsvdksFt3m1U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372127
On 23/12/2024 9:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>
>> Class rules?
> 
> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
> ability to deal with impact.
> 
> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design heavy 
> emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce the 
> amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with the 
> road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in contact 
> with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into big 
> trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing all 
> kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise that effect.
> 
> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
> 
>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp

A couple of fellow apprentices had BSA three wheelers made somewhere in 
the early 1930s. Amazing for it's day, powered by a 1 litre V-twin, they 
had front wheel drive and inboard (drum) brakes. Sounds great but the 
diff oil seals always leaked meaning that the brakes had to be cleaned 
frequently. The FWD didn't help much either since both of them got 
inverted at some point.

> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite large 
> cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the combined 
> brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front strut itself, 
> and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel caused an over 
> reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making the wheel bounce 
> higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by moving the brake 
> inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was significantly reduced and 
> the reaction to bumps and ripple strips minimised. Even with the added 
> weight of the of the half shaft between the brake and the front hub.
> 
> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as weighted 
> corners do. So they're not used very often.

Big wheels with low profile tyres also increase unsprung weight.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372206

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 21:26 +1100
Message-ID<lsvgj9Ftcv7U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372200
On 24/12/2024 8:36 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>
>>> Class rules?
>>
>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
>> ability to deal with impact.
>>
>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
>> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
>> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
>> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
>> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in 
>> contact with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into 
>> big trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing 
>> all kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise 
>> that effect.
>>
>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>
>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
> 
> A couple of fellow apprentices had BSA three wheelers made somewhere in 
> the early 1930s. Amazing for it's day, powered by a 1 litre V-twin, they 
> had front wheel drive and inboard (drum) brakes. Sounds great but the 
> diff oil seals always leaked meaning that the brakes had to be cleaned 
> frequently. The FWD didn't help much either since both of them got 
> inverted at some point.
> 
>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel 
>> caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making 
>> the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by 
>> moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was 
>> significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and ripple strips 
>> minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the half shaft between 
>> the brake and the front hub.
>>
>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
>> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
>> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as 
>> weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
> 
> Big wheels with low profile tyres also increase unsprung weight.
> 
That depends entirely on what the wheels are made of.

For the record, F1 tyres from 2022 will weigh between 9.5kg and 11.5kg 
with the larger being the rear.

With the change from 13" to 18" rims, the change per corner was 4kg. The 
rim mass increased by 2.5kg each and the tyre mass by 0.2kg. There was 
also an increase in mass of 0.8kg for the brake at each corner. 
Obviously, with the larger rim you can fit larger, hence heavier, brakes.

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372221

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 22:09 +1100
Message-ID<lsvj2eFtnuvU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372200
On 24/12/2024 8:36 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 23/12/2024 9:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>
>>> Class rules?
>>
>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their poor 
>> ability to deal with impact.
>>
>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and acceleration 
>> effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung corner of the car 
>> weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing the bounce as a wheel 
>> goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and the more the control of 
>> the car is reduced when the contact patch of the tyre is not in 
>> contact with the track. This has resulted in many people getting into 
>> big trouble on race tracks all over the world, and many people doing 
>> all kinds of weird and wonderful things over the years to minimise 
>> that effect.
>>
>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>
>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
> 
> A couple of fellow apprentices had BSA three wheelers made somewhere in 
> the early 1930s. Amazing for it's day, powered by a 1 litre V-twin, they 
> had front wheel drive and inboard (drum) brakes. Sounds great but the 
> diff oil seals always leaked meaning that the brakes had to be cleaned 
> frequently. The FWD didn't help much either since both of them got 
> inverted at some point.
> 
>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel 
>> caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making 
>> the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So by 
>> moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was 
>> significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and ripple strips 
>> minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the half shaft between 
>> the brake and the front hub.
>>
>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered their 
>> ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a race car 
>> they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact as 
>> weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
> 
> Big wheels with low profile tyres also increase unsprung weight.
> 

The main purpose of bigger diameter wheels are to accommodate bigger brakes.
Mate spent a fortune getting some very light weight wheels made for his 
race car, he also wanted the wheels to be 13" so the car would sit lower.
Trouble with that is there isn't as big a tyre choice in the smaller 
size, my youngest son has the same problem getting decent tyres for his 
Diahatsu Mira, the OE wheels were 12", he's gone up to 13" but because 
they aren't a very wide rim the tyre choice isn't great.

-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372225

FromKeithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 22:05 +1000
Message-ID<lsvmbuFucnkU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372221
On 24/12/2024 9:09 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 24/12/2024 8:36 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 23/12/2024 9:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>>
>>>> Class rules?
>>>
>>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their 
>>> poor ability to deal with impact.
>>>
>>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and 
>>> acceleration effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung 
>>> corner of the car weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing 
>>> the bounce as a wheel goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and 
>>> the more the control of the car is reduced when the contact patch of 
>>> the tyre is not in contact with the track. This has resulted in many 
>>> people getting into big trouble on race tracks all over the world, 
>>> and many people doing all kinds of weird and wonderful things over 
>>> the years to minimise that effect.
>>>
>>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>>
>>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
>>
>> A couple of fellow apprentices had BSA three wheelers made somewhere 
>> in the early 1930s. Amazing for it's day, powered by a 1 litre V-twin, 
>> they had front wheel drive and inboard (drum) brakes. Sounds great but 
>> the diff oil seals always leaked meaning that the brakes had to be 
>> cleaned frequently. The FWD didn't help much either since both of them 
>> got inverted at some point.
>>
>>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the wheel 
>>> caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly making 
>>> the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for longer. So 
>>> by moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung corner was 
>>> significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and ripple strips 
>>> minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the half shaft 
>>> between the brake and the front hub.
>>>
>>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered 
>>> their ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a 
>>> race car they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact 
>>> as weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
>>
>> Big wheels with low profile tyres also increase unsprung weight.
>>
> 
> The main purpose of bigger diameter wheels are to accommodate bigger 
> brakes.
> Mate spent a fortune getting some very light weight wheels made for his 
> race car, he also wanted the wheels to be 13" so the car would sit lower.
> Trouble with that is there isn't as big a tyre choice in the smaller 
> size, my youngest son has the same problem getting decent tyres for his 
> Diahatsu Mira, the OE wheels were 12", he's gone up to 13" but because 
> they aren't a very wide rim the tyre choice isn't great.
> 
There isn't a wide choice for the MX-5s 14" wheels either.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372244

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-25 08:08 +1100
Message-ID<lt0m7bF4pq9U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372225
On 24/12/2024 11:05 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 24/12/2024 9:09 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 24/12/2024 8:36 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 23/12/2024 9:19 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>>>>
>>>>> Class rules?
>>>>
>>>> No, they tend not to use super low profile tyres because of their 
>>>> poor ability to deal with impact.
>>>>
>>>> It's a different story on road cars, but in competition car design 
>>>> heavy emphasis is placed on reducing unsprung weight so as to reduce 
>>>> the amount of inertia based bounce and keep the tyre in contact with 
>>>> the road as much as possible to achieve maximum brake and 
>>>> acceleration effect. The idea being that the more each unsprung 
>>>> corner of the car weighs, the more inertia plays a part increasing 
>>>> the bounce as a wheel goes over a rough patch or a ripple strip, and 
>>>> the more the control of the car is reduced when the contact patch of 
>>>> the tyre is not in contact with the track. This has resulted in many 
>>>> people getting into big trouble on race tracks all over the world, 
>>>> and many people doing all kinds of weird and wonderful things over 
>>>> the years to minimise that effect.
>>>>
>>>> For example, here's a pic of a Lotus 72 F1 car from the early 1970's 
>>>> with the front panel removed, showing the inboard front brakes:
>>>>
>>>>> https://ibb.co/CmNYVBp
>>>
>>> A couple of fellow apprentices had BSA three wheelers made somewhere 
>>> in the early 1930s. Amazing for it's day, powered by a 1 litre V- 
>>> twin, they had front wheel drive and inboard (drum) brakes. Sounds 
>>> great but the diff oil seals always leaked meaning that the brakes 
>>> had to be cleaned frequently. The FWD didn't help much either since 
>>> both of them got inverted at some point.
>>>
>>>> The idea here was that as the brake rotors of the time were quite 
>>>> large cast iron units with big 6 pot callipers the weight of the 
>>>> combined brake assemblies was more than the wheel, tyre and front 
>>>> strut itself, and any sudden change in vertical movement of the 
>>>> wheel caused an over reaction due to the mass of the brake assembly 
>>>> making the wheel bounce higher and keeping it off the track for 
>>>> longer. So by moving the brake inboard the mass of the unsprung 
>>>> corner was significantly reduced and the reaction to bumps and 
>>>> ripple strips minimised. Even with the added weight of the of the 
>>>> half shaft between the brake and the front hub.
>>>>
>>>> Low profile tyres have the same effect. As Trevor has discovered 
>>>> their ability to absorb impact is particularly shithouse, and on a 
>>>> race car they cause the same disturbance to the wheel/ground contact 
>>>> as weighted corners do. So they're not used very often.
>>>
>>> Big wheels with low profile tyres also increase unsprung weight.
>>>
>>
>> The main purpose of bigger diameter wheels are to accommodate bigger 
>> brakes.
>> Mate spent a fortune getting some very light weight wheels made for 
>> his race car, he also wanted the wheels to be 13" so the car would sit 
>> lower.
>> Trouble with that is there isn't as big a tyre choice in the smaller 
>> size, my youngest son has the same problem getting decent tyres for 
>> his Diahatsu Mira, the OE wheels were 12", he's gone up to 13" but 
>> because they aren't a very wide rim the tyre choice isn't great.
>>
> There isn't a wide choice for the MX-5s 14" wheels either.

These days 17" wheels are considered small, I think that any wheel much 
bigger than 17" looks stupid unless the car has massive brakes to fill 
in the space behind the wheel.
I also hate it when someone puts a 19" wheel with rubber band tyres on a 
1970's or older car, IMHO they generally look ridiculous.



-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372136

Fromalvey <Factman@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-23 22:26 +1000
Message-ID<vkbksu$16v5n$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#372123
Keithr0 wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
> 
>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
> 
> Class rules?


I'm not sure if comparing racing tyres of any type to streetwear is 
valid as remarkably few racing tyres are designed to last >= 15km...



alvey

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372139

FromXeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
Date2024-12-23 23:49 +1100
Message-ID<lst4jjFhn14U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372136
On 23/12/2024 11:26 pm, alvey wrote:
> Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
>>
>> Class rules?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if comparing racing tyres of any type to streetwear is 
> valid as remarkably few racing tyres are designed to last >= 15km...
> 
> 
> 
> alvey
> 
It was initially a red herring tossed into the mix by Darren.

-- 
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
       (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#372151

FromDaryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
Date2024-12-24 12:52 +1100
Message-ID<lsuiesForlcU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#372123
On 23/12/2024 9:49 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 12:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
> 
>> Once again if that is true why don't race cars use low profile tyres?
> 
> Class rules?

Possibly but could also be that on race cars the tyre side wall flex is 
part of the suspension design.
Specifically on the Clubman/Lotus 7 cars that I'm very familiar with you 
need tyre side wall flex to create heat in the tyres, no heat equals no 
grip, in race trim the cars only weigh around 500kg so we start with 
tyre pressures at 16psi cold, any more pressure and we can't get enough 
heat into the tyres (55-60deg C is ideal) to make them work.
The tyres we use are Yokohama A048 or A050 which are R spec, supposedly 
street legal but they are useless if its wet.
$480 per corner and they last about 12mths if you are lucky.

-- 
Daryl

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 7 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 23  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | aus.cars


csiph-web