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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1146923 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-07-15 08:18 +0100 |
| Last post | 2026-07-17 22:51 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 369 — 32 participants |
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Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 08:18 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-15 17:37 +1000
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-15 07:47 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-15 11:01 +0200
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-15 11:07 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 10:23 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-15 21:50 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 16:13 -0400
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-16 09:52 +1000
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-16 07:35 +0200
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-16 07:09 +0200
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-15 10:20 +0100
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-15 10:33 +0000
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 07:03 -0400
Re: Fireman HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-07-15 12:35 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 07:44 -0400
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-15 12:51 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 08:45 -0400
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-15 21:25 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 14:47 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-15 15:43 +0000
Re: Fireman occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-15 18:03 +0200
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-16 09:58 +1000
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-16 09:06 +0000
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-16 09:19 +0000
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-18 13:05 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 16:26 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 16:29 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-18 17:51 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-18 19:02 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 20:58 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-18 16:34 -0400
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 22:14 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-18 18:13 -0400
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:13 -0400
Man vs woman vs man vs monkey Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-16 07:18 +0200
Re: Fireman occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-15 17:09 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-16 23:34 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-16 19:33 -0400
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-17 09:49 +1000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 06:54 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-17 09:41 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 10:26 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 11:00 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 11:02 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-17 20:47 +1000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 13:54 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 19:23 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 20:35 +0100
Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 20:15 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 21:39 +0100
Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 20:51 +0000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 07:10 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 08:04 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-18 17:36 +1000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 10:43 +0100
Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-18 11:05 +0100
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-18 10:06 +0000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 11:28 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-18 10:00 +0200
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 20:50 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-19 08:21 +0200
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-19 09:26 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 16:04 +0000
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-17 22:17 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 06:38 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-18 07:19 +0000
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-18 13:51 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-19 09:26 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 08:59 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 10:43 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 10:52 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 12:21 +0100
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-20 17:27 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:01 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 21:30 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 17:22 -0400
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-21 10:16 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 13:56 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 10:15 -0400
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 16:42 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 09:01 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 14:12 -0400
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-22 20:29 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 16:44 -0400
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 09:50 +0200
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 20:36 +1000
Re: Fireman Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2026-07-23 15:02 -0700
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 20:44 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:10 +0000
Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 12:00 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-23 11:58 +0100
Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 13:02 +0100
Re: Fireman [OT] Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 23:24 +1000
Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 15:35 +0100
Re: Fireman [OT] Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 18:00 +0200
Re: Fireman [OT] Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 17:24 +0100
Re: Fireman [OT] Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 18:37 +0200
Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 17:42 +0100
Re: Fireman [OT] Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 13:20 -0400
Re: Fireman [OT] Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-24 08:15 +0000
Re: Fireman [OT] msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2026-07-24 18:14 +0000
Re: Fireman [OT] "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@google.com> - 2026-07-25 12:29 +0200
Re: Fireman [OT] Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-07-24 16:30 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 09:16 +0100
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-23 14:00 +0200
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 14:23 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 15:35 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 18:33 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-24 09:23 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-24 21:37 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 23:04 -0400
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-25 19:45 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-28 10:22 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 09:33 +0000
Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:03 -0700
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 09:14 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-28 20:48 +1000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-28 13:59 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 13:28 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-28 21:42 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 20:31 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-28 16:55 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 17:25 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 09:36 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-01 14:46 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-08 20:21 +0100
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-08 20:42 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 12:01 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-09 15:04 +0200
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 14:21 +0100
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-09 22:53 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-08 16:52 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:59 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 09:38 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 10:24 +0100
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-08-10 11:02 +0000
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-10 16:45 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-10 17:14 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-11 06:52 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 12:06 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 13:20 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-11 09:52 +1000
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 09:00 +0100
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-10 10:47 +0200
Re: Fireman Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-08-13 11:06 +0530
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-28 18:27 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 09:36 +0100
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 16:02 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 19:05 +0100
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 18:55 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 19:49 +0100
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-09 20:08 +0000
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-09 23:27 +0200
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 22:55 +0100
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-10 13:25 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 17:28 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 16:34 +0000
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 17:00 +0000
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-10 20:15 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 20:08 +0000
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-11 09:13 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-11 09:44 +0200
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-11 10:22 +0200
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-10 17:50 +0000
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-11 10:32 +1000
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 08:51 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-08 20:21 +0100
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-29 20:26 +0200
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 19:20 +0000
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 07:13 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-30 00:07 +0100
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-30 10:13 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-30 09:48 +0000
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-30 11:51 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 21:55 +1000
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 18:17 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 21:53 +0200
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 20:01 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 22:38 +0200
Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 21:41 +0000
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-02 21:55 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-28 22:02 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-28 18:51 -0400
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 01:51 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-29 07:01 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 09:25 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 14:43 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:35 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 15:47 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:58 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:17 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:58 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-30 06:26 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:24 +0100
Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-07-30 22:05 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 23:33 +0100
Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-07-31 08:56 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-31 21:50 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:56 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:34 +0200
Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 11:13 -0700
Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:38 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 12:12 -0400
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:58 +0100
Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:00 +0100
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-29 22:13 +0000
Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:47 -0700
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:26 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-30 22:21 +0200
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-29 21:07 +0200
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 10:36 +1000
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:31 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-30 22:21 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 23:41 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 19:31 -0400
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-31 21:52 +0100
Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-31 03:54 -0300
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-03 19:58 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-03 21:40 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-03 20:51 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-03 23:10 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-31 09:17 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:45 +0200
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 10:22 +1000
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:40 +0200
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-31 05:52 +0200
Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-31 04:01 -0300
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-01 11:24 +0200
Re: Fireman Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-08-03 19:29 +0530
Re: Fireman Brian Boutel <bboutel@me.com> - 2026-07-31 19:09 +1200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-31 09:20 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-31 14:37 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 22:38 +0200
Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:13 -0700
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:28 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 14:08 -0400
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-28 16:55 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-29 16:17 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 18:27 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-29 23:50 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-05 13:21 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 10:20 -0400
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-05 16:37 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 10:59 -0400
Re: Fireman Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-08-05 11:08 -0400
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 17:36 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-05 16:46 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 18:03 +0200
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-06 10:35 +1000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:26 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 08:03 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 08:07 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 09:28 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 09:12 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-06 22:28 +1000
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 08:01 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-06 10:51 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-06 09:21 +0000
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-06 15:00 +0000
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 11:33 -0400
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 21:13 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 16:22 -0400
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 22:52 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:08 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-08 11:57 +0200
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-08 20:25 +0100
Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-08 22:12 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-09 21:06 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:17 -0400
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 19:26 +0200
Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-05 21:38 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 23:54 +0200
Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-08-07 02:11 -0300
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-08-07 16:56 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-07 16:42 +0000
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-08 09:29 +1000
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-08 00:40 -0400
Re: Fireman Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-08-09 12:47 +0100
Re: Fireman Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-08-06 17:30 +0000
Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-05 17:04 +0100
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 18:55 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:50 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-08-05 17:49 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:26 +0100
Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-06 10:20 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-07 06:29 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 10:47 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:08 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-08 11:57 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 11:29 +0100
Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-08-08 11:01 +0100
Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-08 22:24 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-09 11:43 +1000
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-08-09 09:49 +0000
Re: Fireman Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-08-09 17:44 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-09 21:14 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-06 10:51 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-05 22:22 +0200
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 11:03 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-09 21:14 +0200
Re: Fireman "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@google.com> - 2026-07-31 22:39 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-25 11:16 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-25 21:19 +1000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:55 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-25 19:45 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 15:13 +0000
Sex, gender, biology and related or unrelated terms Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-21 08:28 +0200
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-19 12:06 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 13:14 +0000
Re: Fireman "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> - 2026-07-19 17:40 +0000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-20 09:42 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 09:25 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 06:42 +0100
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 08:54 -0400
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 14:38 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 11:28 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 09:19 -0400
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 15:01 +0000
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 11:30 -0400
Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 10:03 -0700
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 22:03 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 19:59 -0400
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-22 23:12 +0200
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 10:39 +0000
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 12:12 +0100
Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-20 13:08 +0000
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-20 22:11 +0100
Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-18 22:40 +0100
Re: Fireman Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2026-07-22 00:03 -0700
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 09:01 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-22 09:51 +0000
Re: Fireman The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> - 2026-07-22 06:22 -0400
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 13:08 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 12:15 +0100
Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 21:31 +0100
Re: Fireman The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> - 2026-07-22 06:11 -0400
Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-17 17:17 +0200
Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 11:25 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 15:46 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-17 11:44 -0400
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 21:29 +0200
Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-17 18:35 -0400
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-19 12:06 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-20 06:25 +0100
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-20 17:45 +1000
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 06:42 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 13:56 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-22 06:47 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-22 23:12 +0200
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-23 00:03 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 10:56 +0200
Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-23 09:23 +0000
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 14:56 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 16:37 +0100
Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-23 16:20 +0000
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 20:41 +1000
Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 11:49 +1000
School stories Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-23 06:46 +0200
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 05:58 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 10:56 +0200
Re: Fireman JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> - 2026-08-04 09:45 +0100
Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-04 11:20 +0100
Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-17 20:08 +0100
Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 21:36 +0200
Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-17 22:51 +0200
Page 5 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 19 Next page →
| From | athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 16:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1784652120-12588@newsgrouper.org> |
| In reply to | #1147300 |
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted: > xOn Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:16:10 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > >Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:30:55 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > >> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > >> > >> >> > >As these are nearly all analogue quantities; trying to represnt them > >> >> > >with a single binary 'male/female' is nonsense ...and recording that > >> >> > >legally on a birth certificate for life, based a midwife's glance > >> >> > >between the baby's legs, is doubly nonsense and sometimes downright > >> >> > >cruelty. > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm not sure what "doubly nonsense" means in that context. > >> >> > > >> >> It means contempt for the expertise of midwives and obstetricians. > >> > > >> >No, it means contempt for people who think they have the right to > >> >control other people's lives and misuse science to justify it. Midwives > >> >and obstetricians do an excellent job but their work should not be used > >> >as justification for human rights abuses by politicians and extremist > >> >groups. > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or Obstetrician > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male > >> or female. It's a bit more than a glance. > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. > > > >Exactly, they are being asked to make a binary decision over something > >that isn't binary. "Glance" was your word. Are you now admitting that the professionals involved do more than glance at the baby? I was present at the births of two of my daughters: I can assure you that the professionals were nowhere near as sloppy as you're saying. > My argument is not with the midwives, they are > >being told to do the impossible in a system that is inherently flawed. > > > > > >> Any controls are effected by other parties. Whether or not the > >> information recorded on the birth certificate can be changed is based > >> on laws set by political authorities. Whether or not the person can > >> change that status is determined by the person subject to the laws set > >> by political authorities. > > > >That is where things go wrong. The politicians and, through them, the > >press and the media are all clinging to this infantile idea that (1) sex > >is binary and (2) is always what the first birth certificate says it is > >and (3) cannot be changed. > > -- athel Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that, with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 09:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1ryn4dh.kq7pvwpox69sN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147308 |
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote: > Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted: > > > xOn Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:16:10 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > >Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:30:55 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > > >> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > >> > > >> >> > >As these are nearly all analogue quantities; trying to represnt > > >> >> > >them with a single binary 'male/female' is nonsense ...and > > >> >> > >recording that legally on a birth certificate for life, based a > > >> >> > >midwife's glance between the baby's legs, is doubly nonsense > > >> >> > >and sometimes downright cruelty. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I'm not sure what "doubly nonsense" means in that context. > > >> >> > > > >> >> It means contempt for the expertise of midwives and obstetricians. > > >> > > > >> >No, it means contempt for people who think they have the right to > > >> >control other people's lives and misuse science to justify it. Midwives > > >> >and obstetricians do an excellent job but their work should not be used > > >> >as justification for human rights abuses by politicians and extremist > > >> >groups. > > >> > > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or Obstetrician > > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills > > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male > > >> or female. It's a bit more than a glance. > > >> > > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or > > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. > > > > > >Exactly, they are being asked to make a binary decision over something > > >that isn't binary. > > "Glance" was your word. Are you now admitting that the professionals involved > do more than glance at the baby? I was present at the births of two of my > daughters: I can assure you that the professionals were nowhere near as sloppy > as you're saying. I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. The 'boy' with ovaries and a mega-clitoris or the 'girl' with a micro-penis and undescended testes are likely to be misdiagnosed at this stage. That in itself is not serious and is no reflection on the professionals and their methods. The mischief is done when that arbitrary binary segregation is used by others to infer gender (which doesn't develop until the age of four or five) and to enforce an inappropriate social rôle, with all the cruelty that involves. Until recently, mistakes like that could be undone by issuing a corrected birth certificate but recent changes to the law have made the original birth certificate mandatory for the situations where it actually matters. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 14:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <fu026lh8sjc0egg3fj4o22hj5dumlnmp6n@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #1147348 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or Obstetrician >> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills >> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male >> > >> or female. It's a bit more than a glance. >> > >> >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or >> > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. >> > > >I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, have, it would have been less controversial. I think most people know that the barriers exist because of preconceived bias and the political aspect of change. As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply record what they observe on a required form that offers only two options. I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.
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| From | Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 20:29 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <113r25q$36lrl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147377 |
Tony Cooper hat am 22.07.2026 um 20:12 geschrieben: > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >> I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to >> determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the >> professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. >> > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, > have, it would have been less controversial. > > I think most people know that the barriers exist because of > preconceived bias and the political aspect of change. > > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their > role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two > options. > > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. I hope your last sentence is correct. Unfortunately, too many people outside AUE do think that the status must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. I won't name certain US politicians and the people who voted them into office here. We all know you don't belong to that group. But millions of US people did and we'll never forget it.
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| From | Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 16:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jc826l93a3tbdfs3314r973g4pcrr7k8c0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #1147379 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 20:29:14 +0200, Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote: >Tony Cooper hat am 22.07.2026 um 20:12 geschrieben: >> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>> I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to >>> determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the >>> professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. >>> >> I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that >> non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, >> have, it would have been less controversial. >> >> I think most people know that the barriers exist because of >> preconceived bias and the political aspect of change. >> >> As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians >> as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their >> role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply >> record what they observe on a required form that offers only two >> options. >> >> I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status >> must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. > > >I hope your last sentence is correct. Unfortunately, too many people >outside AUE do think that the status must be forever male or female and >that status is non-amendable. >I won't name certain US politicians and the people who voted them into >office here. We all know you don't belong to that group. But millions of >US people did and we'll never forget it. > A vote in the general election, in the US, is also a binary choice. (Technically, more than two candidates can be listed on the ballot, but - for most Americans - the choice will be between a Republican or a Democrat.) In all recent general elections, I have voted for the Democrat. That does not mean I supported all of that Democrat's positions. That does not mean that I felt the Democrat would be aggressive enough in certain areas. The Democrat was simply the better choice considering the alternative. I'm sure there are Republican voters who feel the same way. What makes it even more complicated, each voter has their own sense of priorities. Candidate A might be "for" change in a particular area that I agree should be changed, and Candidate B might be opposed to or indifferent to change in that area, but I'm still going to vote for Candidate B because he or she has a more positive rating in areas that are higher on my priority list. Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who are thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this stupid two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" multi-party system, but - under any system - I think it would be difficult to find a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% in agreement or satisfied.
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| From | Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 09:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <113sh40$3l1b5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147391 |
Den 22.07.2026 kl. 22.44 skrev Tony Cooper: > Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who are > thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this stupid > two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" multi-party > system, but - under any system - I think it would be difficult to find > a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% in agreement or > satisfied. Of course it would, but I think that you can achieve a higher percentage of agreement. -- Bertel, Kolt, Danmark
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| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 20:36 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <113sqqq$3oe2s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147391 |
On 23/07/26 06:44, Tony Cooper wrote: > Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who > are thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this > stupid two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" > multi-party system, but - under any system - I think it would be > difficult to find a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% > in agreement or satisfied. That's where Australia's preferential system has an advantage. We don't even attempt to find the most popular candidate. Instead, we elect the least unpopular candidate. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
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| From | Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 15:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <R8icnUKGwvrEEv_3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #1147442 |
On 7/23/26 3:36 AM, Peter Moylan wrote: > On 23/07/26 06:44, Tony Cooper wrote: > >> Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who >> are thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this >> stupid two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" >> multi-party system, but - under any system - I think it would be >> difficult to find a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% >> in agreement or satisfied. > > That's where Australia's preferential system has an advantage. > We don't > even attempt to find the most popular candidate. Instead, we elect the > least unpopular candidate. Sounds like America!
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 20:44 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147377 |
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or Obstetrician > >> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills > >> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male > >> > >> or female. It's a bit more than a glance. > >> > >> > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or > >> > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. > >> > > > > >I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to > >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the > >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. > > > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, > have, it would have been less controversial. [...] > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their > role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two > options When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to misinterpretation. I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that ruin peoples lives. > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe that. Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 08:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1784794249-12588@newsgrouper.org> |
| In reply to | #1147388 |
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) posted: > Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or Obstetrician > > >> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills > > >> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male > > >> > >> or female. It's a bit more than a glance. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or > > >> > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. > > >> > > > > > > >I was perhaps a little too flippant Did you think that flippancy was appropriate for maligning a whole profession? > - but the tests usually done to > > >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the > > >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. > > > > > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that > > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, > > have, it would have been less controversial. > [...] > > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians > > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their > > role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply > > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two > > options > > When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to > misinterpretation. I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced > my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the > chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that > ruin peoples lives. > > > > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status > > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. > > Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press > and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe > that. Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and > legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief. > As you doubtless know, Ann Widdecombe was murdered by hitting her 21 times on the head with a hammer. (She wasn't a nice person, but that doesn't justify her murder.) Was it just a coincidence that this happened a week or two after the "non-violent" group Bash Back produced a poster suggesting that the best way to deal with people you don't like is to put on a mask and attack them with a hammer? You can see the poster here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/11/militant-trans-group-wes-streeting/ Do we know whether the murderer was influenced by this poster? It seems an improbable coincidence if he wasn't. On hearing about her death, a charming person at Aberdeen University said that she hoped she had died an “extremely painful death” and that she was “handcuffed to the bed as she screamed in agony”. -- athel Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that, with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 12:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <1ryp7cp.1vmi3tv11dnpfaN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147432 |
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote: > liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) posted: > > > Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid > > > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > > > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz. The Midwife or > > > >> > >> Obstetrician who is present at the birth records what he or > > > >> > >> she observes and fills in the obligatory box on the form > > > >> > >> identifying the child as either male or female. It's a bit > > > >> > >> more than a glance. > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or > > > >> > >> Obstetrician. It's simply a record of what is observed. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >I was perhaps a little too flippant > > Did you think that flippancy was appropriate for maligning a whole profession? This was not my intention, five of subsequent my posts have explained this and I have now apologised to you twice. > > - but the tests usually done to > > > >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the > > > >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check. > > > > > > > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that > > > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status, > > > have, it would have been less controversial. > > [...] > > > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians > > > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their > > > role adequately. Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply > > > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two > > > options > > > > When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to > > misinterpretation. I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced > > my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the > > chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that > > ruin peoples lives. > > > > > > > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status > > > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable. > > > > Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press > > and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe > > that. Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and > > legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief. > > > As you doubtless know, Ann Widdecombe was murdered by hitting her 21 times > on the head with a hammer. (She wasn't a nice person, but that doesn't > justify her murder.) Was it just a coincidence that this happened a week > or two after the "non-violent" group Bash Back produced a poster > suggesting that the best way to deal with people you don't like is to put > on a mask and attack them with a hammer? You can see the poster here: > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/11/militant-trans-group-wes-stree > ting/ > > Do we know whether the murderer was influenced by this poster? It seems an > improbable coincidence if he wasn't. > > On hearing about her death, a charming person at Aberdeen University said > that she hoped she had died an “extremely painful death†and that she > was “handcuffed to the bed as she screamed in agonyâ€. I can't comment on this particular event because I don't know any of the details. If any person has made someone's life not worth living there is a risk that the persecuted individual may feel justified in returning the favour - the only question is the levels at which this becomes acceptable.. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | Janet <nobody@home.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 11:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.44cc043ac024710a989701@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1147388 |
In article <1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid says...
>
> Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
> and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
> that. Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
> legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.
>
Who pays you for misinformation ?
The recent Supreme Court judgement is a clarification of the term
"sex" as it is used in one specific law (The Equalities Act 2010).
It's very clearly explained here.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/
Janet UK.
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 13:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <1ryp92o.zekra3cli8pyN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147444 |
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote: > In article <1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>, > liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid says... > > > > Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press > > and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe > > that. Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and > > legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief. > > > > Who pays you for misinformation ? Nobody pays me personally for information of any kind - but the total figures, taken from the organisations whose accounts are public, from 2018 to 2024, are (in UKP millions) 46.7 UC Christian policy/advocacy (+29%) 43.9 Branches of US groups (+61%) 35.8 Anti-abortion (+31%) 10.3 UC Christian professionals (+16%) 3.6 Gender critical (anti transgender) (+1958%) 2.5 Conversion practices (+153%) 1.4 Other (+58%) The percentage figures are the total increase in their spending over the period 2019 - 2024 (Note: Conversion practices are illegal in most European countries but not the UK) > The recent Supreme Court judgement is a clarification of the term > "sex" as it is used in one specific law (The Equalities Act 2010). What is the word for a court that refuses to allow one side of the case to be represented? That is what the Supreme Court did. > It's very clearly explained here. > > https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/ The 'guidance' being forced into law on 5 August claims far more than that for the Sopreme Court judgement and imposes impossible constrainsts on employers, service providers and members of the public. That is why 196 Members of Parliament rejected it (including the Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committe). https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/codes-practice/services-pub lic-functions-and-associations-code-practice Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are when you go into a toilet? After 5 August the law will be on the side of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a woman. It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 23:24 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <113t4mn$3s4qv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147449 |
On 23/07/26 22:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are > when you go into a toilet? After 5 August the law will be on the side > of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a > woman. It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could > have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to > the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. One way to do this is to piss on the stranger. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 15:35 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <1rypgrv.1xc1bddh3s39mN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147455 |
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: > On 23/07/26 22:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > > > Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are > > when you go into a toilet? After 5 August the law will be on the side > > of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a > > woman. It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could > > have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to > > the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. > > One way to do this is to piss on the stranger. No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal examination). They will now have to use the 'Gents'. Transmen, with a beard and a deep voice (indistinguishable from men when fully dressed) should have to use the 'Ladies' but that is not acceptable so there must be a third toilet just for them. If they are forced to use it, this 'outs' them as transgender and is an offence under the Human Rights Act, and the general Data Protection Regulation so they can sue their employer or whover controls the toilets. If someone suspects the person is a transwoman or a transman they can now legally ask them in a way that does not cause offense (how?) but the person they ask is not obliged to tell them. If an employer receives a complaint from another employee, he can insist on seeing the person's *original* birth certificate (not the current one) but if he then uses or passes on that information in any way, he will be in breach of the GDPR. This has been passed by Parliament without a vote and comes ito effect on 5 August. If you want some black comedy, you need to watch the chair of the committee that drew up this nonsense twisting this way and that to avoid answering questions on how it is supposed to work. She was found incompetent at her job interview (which was also available online and is cringe-worthy) then was appointed to the post by the Minister over the heads of the expert committee who turned her down. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 18:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <113tdqr$3v7vg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147461 |
Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham: >>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to >>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. >> >> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger. > > No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even > gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal > examination). They will now have to use the 'Gents'. I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like in any home that I know of. -- Bertel, Kolt, Danmark
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 17:24 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <ncethnFb5e9U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1147464 |
Le 23/07/2026 à 17:00, Bertel Lund Hansen a écrit : > > I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like > in any home that I know of. That could be the bog standard, of course, but it would have reduced throughput. Not important at home; quite important in busy public spaces such as railway stations or stadia. Anyway, the sexes are incompatible. Men go alone, and generally in silence. Women go in pairs, and do whatever it is they do - blether, probably. If we were cheek by, er, cheek, the risk is that we might find out.
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| From | Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 18:37 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <113tg06$ac5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1147466 |
Den 23.07.2026 kl. 18.24 skrev Hibou: >> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like >> in any home that I know of. > > > That could be the bog standard, of course, but it would have reduced > throughput. Not important at home; quite important in busy public spaces > such as railway stations or stadia. We could have common toilets and a pissoir section - open for women of course. -- Bertel, Kolt, Danmark
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| From | liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 17:42 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <1rypnmd.1dl6ce01nf7a3uN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1147464 |
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote: > Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham: > > >>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to > >>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. > >> > >> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger. > > > > No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even > > gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal > > examination). They will now have to use the 'Gents'. > > I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like > in any home that I know of. This is the logial, least problematical and cheapest answer; but it doesn't suit the campaigners who are determined to weaponise toilets in their zeal to drive transgender people out of normal life. -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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| From | Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-23 13:20 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Fireman [OT] |
| Message-ID | <d4j46ldckmm88lahffh0vqhp7q21jqgpr8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #1147468 |
On Thu, 23 Jul 2026 17:42:36 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote: >Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote: > >> Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham: >> >> >>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to >> >>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet. >> >> >> >> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger. >> > >> > No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even >> > gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal >> > examination). They will now have to use the 'Gents'. >> >> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like >> in any home that I know of. > >This is the logial, least problematical and cheapest answer; but it >doesn't suit the campaigners who are determined to weaponise toilets in >their zeal to drive transgender people out of normal life. There are several places in this area where the "Men's" and "Women's" bathroom have both been changed to "Unisex". These are places that have smaller bathrooms suitable for one person at a time. "Next up" goes in and locks the door.
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