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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1146923 > unrolled thread

Fireman

Started byHibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid>
First post2026-07-15 08:18 +0100
Last post2026-07-17 22:51 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 369 — 32 participants

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Contents

  Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 08:18 +0100
    Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-15 17:37 +1000
    Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-15 07:47 +0000
    Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-15 11:01 +0200
    Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-15 11:07 +0200
      Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 10:23 +0100
      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-15 21:50 +0200
        Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 16:13 -0400
          Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-16 09:52 +1000
          Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-16 07:35 +0200
        Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-16 07:09 +0200
    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-15 10:20 +0100
    Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-15 10:33 +0000
    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 07:03 -0400
      Re: Fireman HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-07-15 12:35 +0100
        Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 07:44 -0400
          Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-15 12:51 +0100
            Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 08:45 -0400
              Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-15 21:25 +0100
          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-15 14:47 +0100
            Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-15 15:43 +0000
              Re: Fireman occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-15 18:03 +0200
              Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-16 09:58 +1000
                Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-16 09:06 +0000
                Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-16 09:19 +0000
              Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-18 13:05 +0200
                Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 16:26 +0100
                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 16:29 +0100
                    Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-18 17:51 +0200
                  Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-18 19:02 +0100
                  Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 20:58 +0100
                    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-18 16:34 -0400
                      Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 22:14 +0100
                        Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-18 18:13 -0400
            Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:13 -0400
            Man vs woman vs man vs monkey Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-16 07:18 +0200
          Re: Fireman occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-15 17:09 +0200
            Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-16 23:34 +0200
              Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-16 19:33 -0400
                Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-17 09:49 +1000
                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 06:54 +0100
                    Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-17 09:41 +0100
                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 10:26 +0100
                      Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 11:00 +0100
                        Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 11:02 +0100
                          Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-17 20:47 +1000
                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 13:54 +0100
                          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-17 19:23 +0100
                            Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 20:35 +0100
                              Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 20:15 +0000
                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-17 21:39 +0100
                                  Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 20:51 +0000
                                    Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 07:10 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 08:04 +0100
                                        Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-18 17:36 +1000
                                          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 10:43 +0100
                                            Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-18 11:05 +0100
                                            Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-18 10:06 +0000
                                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 11:28 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-18 10:00 +0200
                                        Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-18 20:50 +0100
                                          Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-19 08:21 +0200
                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-19 09:26 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 16:04 +0000
                              Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-17 22:17 +0100
                                Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-18 06:38 +0100
                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-18 07:19 +0000
                                Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-18 13:51 +0000
                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-19 09:26 +0100
                                  Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 08:59 +0000
                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 10:43 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 10:52 +0000
                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 12:21 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-20 17:27 +0200
                                        Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:01 +0000
                                          Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 21:30 +0100
                                            Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 17:22 -0400
                                              Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-21 10:16 +0100
                                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 13:56 +0200
                                                Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 10:15 -0400
                                                  Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 16:42 +0000
                                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 09:01 +0100
                                                      Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 14:12 -0400
                                                        Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-22 20:29 +0200
                                                          Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 16:44 -0400
                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 09:50 +0200
                                                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 20:36 +1000
                                                              Re: Fireman Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2026-07-23 15:02 -0700
                                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 20:44 +0100
                                                          Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:10 +0000
                                                            Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 12:00 +0100
                                                          Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-23 11:58 +0100
                                                            Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 13:02 +0100
                                                              Re: Fireman [OT] Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 23:24 +1000
                                                                Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 15:35 +0100
                                                                  Re: Fireman [OT] Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 18:00 +0200
                                                                    Re: Fireman [OT] Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 17:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: Fireman [OT] Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-23 18:37 +0200
                                                                    Re: Fireman [OT] liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 17:42 +0100
                                                                      Re: Fireman [OT] Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 13:20 -0400
                                                                        Re: Fireman [OT] Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-24 08:15 +0000
                                                                          Re: Fireman [OT] msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2026-07-24 18:14 +0000
                                                                            Re: Fireman [OT] "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@google.com> - 2026-07-25 12:29 +0200
                                                              Re: Fireman [OT] Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-07-24 16:30 +0100
                                                      Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 09:16 +0100
                                                        Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-23 14:00 +0200
                                                          Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 14:23 +0100
                                                            Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-23 15:35 +0100
                                                              Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-23 18:33 +0100
                                                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-24 09:23 +0100
                                                              Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-24 21:37 +0100
                                                                Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 23:04 -0400
                                                                  Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-25 19:45 +0100
                                                                    Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-28 10:22 +0100
                                                                      Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 09:33 +0000
                                                                        Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:03 -0700
                                                                          Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 09:14 +0100
                                                                      Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-28 20:48 +1000
                                                                        Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-28 13:59 +0200
                                                                          Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 13:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-28 21:42 +0200
                                                                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 20:31 +0000
                                                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-28 16:55 +0100
                                                                          Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-28 17:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 09:36 +0100
                                                                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-01 14:46 +0000
                                                                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-08 20:21 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-08 20:42 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 12:01 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-09 15:04 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 14:21 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-09 22:53 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-08 16:52 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:59 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 09:38 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 10:24 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-08-10 11:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-10 16:45 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-10 17:14 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-11 06:52 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 12:06 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-10 13:20 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-11 09:52 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 09:00 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-10 10:47 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-08-13 11:06 +0530
                                                                          Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-28 18:27 +0000
                                                                            Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 09:36 +0100
                                                                              Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 16:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 19:05 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 18:55 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 19:49 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-09 20:08 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-09 23:27 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 22:55 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-10 13:25 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-10 17:28 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 16:34 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 17:00 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-10 20:15 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-10 20:08 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-11 09:13 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-11 09:44 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-11 10:22 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-10 17:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-11 10:32 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 08:51 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-08 20:21 +0100
                                                                                Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-29 20:26 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-29 19:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-30 07:13 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-30 00:07 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-30 10:13 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-30 09:48 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-30 11:51 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 21:55 +1000
                                                                            Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 18:17 +0000
                                                                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 21:53 +0200
                                                                                Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 20:01 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 22:38 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-08-02 21:41 +0000
                                                                              Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-02 21:55 +0200
                                                                        Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-28 22:02 +0100
                                                                          Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-28 18:51 -0400
                                                                            Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 01:51 +0100
                                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-29 07:01 +0200
                                                                              Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 09:25 -0400
                                                                                Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 14:43 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:35 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 15:47 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:58 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:17 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:58 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-30 06:26 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:24 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-07-30 22:05 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 23:33 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-07-31 08:56 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-31 21:50 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:56 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:34 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 11:13 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:38 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 12:12 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-29 19:58 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:00 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-29 22:13 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:47 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:26 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-30 22:21 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-07-29 21:07 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 10:36 +1000
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 20:31 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-30 22:21 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-30 23:41 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 19:31 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-31 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-31 03:54 -0300
                                                                                                      Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-03 19:58 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-03 21:40 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-03 20:51 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-03 23:10 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-31 09:17 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:45 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-30 10:22 +1000
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:40 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-31 05:52 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-31 04:01 -0300
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-08-01 11:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-08-03 19:29 +0530
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Brian Boutel <bboutel@me.com> - 2026-07-31 19:09 +1200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-31 09:20 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-31 09:57 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-31 14:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-02 22:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:13 -0700
                                                                                Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-30 19:28 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 14:08 -0400
                                                                      Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-28 16:55 +0100
                                                                        Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-29 16:17 +0100
                                                                          Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-29 18:27 +0100
                                                                            Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-29 23:50 +0100
                                                                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-05 13:21 +0100
                                                                                Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 10:20 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-05 16:37 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 10:59 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-08-05 11:08 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 17:36 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-05 16:46 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 18:03 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-06 10:35 +1000
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:26 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 08:03 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 08:07 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 09:28 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 09:12 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-06 22:28 +1000
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-06 08:01 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-06 10:51 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-06 09:21 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-06 15:00 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 11:33 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 21:13 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 16:22 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 22:52 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:08 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-08 11:57 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-08 20:25 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-08 22:12 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-08-09 21:06 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:17 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 19:26 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-08-05 21:38 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 23:54 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-08-07 02:11 -0300
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-08-07 16:56 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-07 16:42 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-08 09:29 +1000
                                                                                                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-08-08 00:40 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Fireman Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-08-09 12:47 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-08-06 17:30 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-05 17:04 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-08-05 18:55 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:50 +0100
                                                                                Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-08-05 17:49 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-06 06:26 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Fireman Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-06 10:20 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-07 06:29 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-07 10:47 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:08 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-08 11:57 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-08 11:29 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Fireman Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-08-08 11:01 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Fireman "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-08 22:24 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-08-09 11:43 +1000
                                                                                              Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-08-09 09:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Fireman Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-08-09 17:44 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-09 21:14 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-06 10:51 +0200
                                                                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-05 22:22 +0200
                                                                              Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-08-09 11:03 +0100
                                                                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-09 21:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: Fireman "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@google.com> - 2026-07-31 22:39 +0200
                                                                Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-25 11:16 +0100
                                                                  Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-25 21:19 +1000
                                                                    Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:55 +0100
                                                                Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-25 19:45 +0100
                                                Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 15:13 +0000
                                            Sex, gender, biology and related or unrelated terms Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-21 08:28 +0200
                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-19 12:06 +0200
                                    Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-19 13:14 +0000
                                      Re: Fireman "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> - 2026-07-19 17:40 +0000
                                        Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-20 09:42 +0100
                                          Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 09:25 -0400
                                            Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 06:42 +0100
                                              Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 08:54 -0400
                                                Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 14:38 +0100
                                            Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 11:28 +0200
                                              Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 09:19 -0400
                                                Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-21 15:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 11:30 -0400
                                                  Re: Fireman Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 10:03 -0700
                                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 22:03 +0200
                                                    Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 19:59 -0400
                                                      Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-22 23:12 +0200
                                  Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-20 10:39 +0000
                                    Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-20 12:12 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-20 13:08 +0000
                                      Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-20 22:11 +0100
                              Re: Fireman Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-18 22:40 +0100
                                Re: Fireman Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2026-07-22 00:03 -0700
                                  Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 09:01 +0100
                                    Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-22 09:51 +0000
                                      Re: Fireman The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> - 2026-07-22 06:22 -0400
                                        Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 13:08 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 12:15 +0100
                                      Re: Fireman liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-22 21:31 +0100
                                  Re: Fireman The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> - 2026-07-22 06:11 -0400
                        Re: Fireman Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-17 17:17 +0200
                      Re: Fireman ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-17 11:25 +0000
                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 15:46 +0200
                  Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-17 11:44 -0400
                    Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 21:29 +0200
                      Re: Fireman Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-17 18:35 -0400
                        Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-19 12:06 +0200
                    Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-20 06:25 +0100
                      Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-20 17:45 +1000
                        Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-21 06:42 +0100
                      Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-21 13:56 +0200
                        Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-22 06:47 +0100
                          Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-22 23:12 +0200
                            Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-23 00:03 +0000
                              Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 10:56 +0200
                                Re: Fireman richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-23 09:23 +0000
                                  Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 14:56 +0200
                                  Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 16:37 +0100
                                    Re: Fireman athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-23 16:20 +0000
                              Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 20:41 +1000
                            Re: Fireman Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-07-23 11:49 +1000
                              School stories Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-23 06:46 +0200
                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-23 05:58 +0100
                                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-23 10:56 +0200
                            Re: Fireman JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> - 2026-08-04 09:45 +0100
                              Re: Fireman Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-08-04 11:20 +0100
              Re: Fireman Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-17 20:08 +0100
                Re: Fireman nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-17 21:36 +0200
                Re: Fireman Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-17 22:51 +0200

Page 5 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 19  Next page →


#1147308

Fromathel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 16:42 +0000
Message-ID<1784652120-12588@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#1147300
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted:

> xOn Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:16:10 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> 
> >Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:30:55 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> >> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> > >As these are nearly all analogue quantities; trying to represnt them
> >> >> > >with a single binary 'male/female' is nonsense  ...and recording that
> >> >> > >legally on a birth certificate for life, based a midwife's glance
> >> >> > >between the baby's legs, is doubly nonsense and sometimes downright
> >> >> > >cruelty.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I'm not sure what "doubly nonsense" means in that context. 
> >> >> > 
> >> >> It means contempt for the expertise of midwives and obstetricians.
> >> >
> >> >No, it means contempt for people who think they have the right to
> >> >control other people's lives and misuse science to justify it.  Midwives
> >> >and obstetricians do an excellent job but their work should not be used
> >> >as justification for human rights abuses by politicians and extremist
> >> >groups.
> >> 
> >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or Obstetrician
> >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills
> >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male
> >> or female.  It's a bit more than a glance.
> >> 
> >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
> >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
> >
> >Exactly, they are being asked to make a binary decision over something
> >that isn't binary. 

"Glance" was your word. Are you now admitting that the professionals involved
do more than glance at the baby? I was present at the births of two of my 
daughters: I can assure you that the professionals were nowhere near as sloppy
as you're saying.


>  My argument is not with the midwives, they are
> >being told to do the impossible in a system that is inherently flawed.
> >
> >
> >> Any controls are effected by other parties.  Whether or not the
> >> information recorded on the birth certificate can be changed is based
> >> on laws set by political authorities.  Whether or not the person can
> >> change that status is determined by the person subject to the laws set
> >> by political authorities.
> >
> >That is where things go wrong.  The politicians and, through them, the
> >press and the media are all clinging to this infantile idea that (1) sex
> >is binary and (2) is always what the first birth certificate says it is
> >and (3) cannot be changed.   
> >


-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#1147348

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-22 09:01 +0100
Message-ID<1ryn4dh.kq7pvwpox69sN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147308
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> posted:
> 
> > xOn Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:16:10 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> > 
> > >Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:30:55 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> > >> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> >> > >As these are nearly all analogue quantities; trying to represnt
> > >> >> > >them with a single binary 'male/female' is nonsense  ...and
> > >> >> > >recording that legally on a birth certificate for life, based a
> > >> >> > >midwife's glance between the baby's legs, is doubly nonsense
> > >> >> > >and sometimes downright cruelty.
> > >> >> > 
> > >> >> > I'm not sure what "doubly nonsense" means in that context. 
> > >> >> > 
> > >> >> It means contempt for the expertise of midwives and obstetricians.
> > >> >
> > >> >No, it means contempt for people who think they have the right to
> > >> >control other people's lives and misuse science to justify it.  Midwives
> > >> >and obstetricians do an excellent job but their work should not be used
> > >> >as justification for human rights abuses by politicians and extremist
> > >> >groups.
> > >> 
> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or Obstetrician
> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills
> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male
> > >> or female.  It's a bit more than a glance.
> > >> 
> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
> > >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
> > >
> > >Exactly, they are being asked to make a binary decision over something
> > >that isn't binary. 
> 
> "Glance" was your word. Are you now admitting that the professionals involved
> do more than glance at the baby? I was present at the births of two of my
> daughters: I can assure you that the professionals were nowhere near as sloppy
> as you're saying.

I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to
determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.

The 'boy' with ovaries and a mega-clitoris or the 'girl' with a
micro-penis and undescended testes are likely to be misdiagnosed at this
stage.  That in itself is not serious and is no reflection on the
professionals and their methods.

The mischief is done when that arbitrary binary segregation is used by
others to infer gender (which doesn't develop until the age of  four or
five) and to enforce an inappropriate social rôle, with all the cruelty
that involves.  Until recently, mistakes like that could be undone by
issuing a corrected birth certificate but recent changes to the law have
made the original birth certificate mandatory for the situations where
it actually matters.

-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1147377

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-22 14:12 -0400
Message-ID<fu026lh8sjc0egg3fj4o22hj5dumlnmp6n@4ax.com>
In reply to#1147348
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

>> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or Obstetrician
>> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills
>> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male
>> > >> or female.  It's a bit more than a glance.
>> > >> 
>> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
>> > >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
>> > >

>I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to
>determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
>professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
>
I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
have, it would have been less controversial.

I think most people know that the barriers exist because of
preconceived bias and the political aspect of change.

As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
options.

I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.  

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#1147379

FromSilvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it>
Date2026-07-22 20:29 +0200
Message-ID<113r25q$36lrl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147377
Tony Cooper hat am 22.07.2026 um 20:12 geschrieben:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
>> I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to
>> determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
>> professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
>>
> I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
> non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
> have, it would have been less controversial.
> 
> I think most people know that the barriers exist because of
> preconceived bias and the political aspect of change.
> 
> As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
> as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
> role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
> record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
> options.
> 
> I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
> must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.  


I hope your last sentence is correct. Unfortunately, too many people
outside AUE do think that the status must be forever male or female and
that status is non-amendable.
I won't name certain US politicians and the people who voted them into
office here. We all know you don't belong to that group. But millions of
US people did and we'll never forget it.

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#1147391

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-22 16:44 -0400
Message-ID<jc826l93a3tbdfs3314r973g4pcrr7k8c0@4ax.com>
In reply to#1147379
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 20:29:14 +0200, Silvano
<Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

>Tony Cooper hat am 22.07.2026 um 20:12 geschrieben:
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
>>> I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to
>>> determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
>>> professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
>>>
>> I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
>> non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
>> have, it would have been less controversial.
>> 
>> I think most people know that the barriers exist because of
>> preconceived bias and the political aspect of change.
>> 
>> As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
>> as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
>> role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
>> record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
>> options.
>> 
>> I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
>> must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.  
>
>
>I hope your last sentence is correct. Unfortunately, too many people
>outside AUE do think that the status must be forever male or female and
>that status is non-amendable.
>I won't name certain US politicians and the people who voted them into
>office here. We all know you don't belong to that group. But millions of
>US people did and we'll never forget it.
>
A vote in the general election, in the US, is also a binary choice.
(Technically, more than two candidates can be listed on the ballot,
but - for most Americans - the choice will be between a Republican or
a Democrat.)

In all recent general elections, I have voted for the Democrat.  That
does not mean I supported all of that  Democrat's positions.  That
does not mean that I felt the Democrat would be aggressive enough in
certain areas.  The Democrat was simply the better choice considering
the alternative.

I'm sure there are Republican voters who feel the same way.

What makes it even more complicated, each voter has their own sense of
priorities.  Candidate A might be "for" change in a particular area
that I agree should be changed, and Candidate B might be opposed to or
indifferent to  change in that area, but I'm still going to vote for
Candidate B because he or she has a more positive rating in areas that
are higher on my priority list.

Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who are
thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this stupid
two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" multi-party
system, but - under any system - I think it would be difficult to find
a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% in agreement or
satisfied.

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#1147430

FromBertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk>
Date2026-07-23 09:50 +0200
Message-ID<113sh40$3l1b5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147391
Den 22.07.2026 kl. 22.44 skrev Tony Cooper:

> Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who are
> thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this stupid
> two-party-dominated system instead of their "better" multi-party
> system, but - under any system - I think it would be difficult to find
> a candidate from any party with whom you are 100% in agreement or
> satisfied.

Of course it would, but I think that you can achieve a higher percentage 
of agreement.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1147442

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
Date2026-07-23 20:36 +1000
Message-ID<113sqqq$3oe2s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147391
On 23/07/26 06:44, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who
> are thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this
> stupid two-party-dominated system instead of their "better"
> multi-party system, but - under any system - I think it would be
> difficult to find a candidate from any party with whom you are 100%
> in agreement or satisfied.

That's where Australia's preferential system has an advantage. We don't
even attempt to find the most popular candidate. Instead, we elect the
least unpopular candidate.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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#1147485

FromPluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com>
Date2026-07-23 15:02 -0700
Message-ID<R8icnUKGwvrEEv_3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#1147442
On 7/23/26 3:36 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/07/26 06:44, Tony Cooper wrote:
> 
>> Drifting just a little bit...There might be some reading this who
>> are thinking that we have a binary choice because we have this
>> stupid two-party-dominated system instead of their "better"
>> multi-party system, but - under any system - I think it would be
>> difficult to find a candidate from any party with whom you are 100%
>> in agreement or satisfied.
> 
> That's where Australia's preferential system has an advantage. 


> We don't
> even attempt to find the most popular candidate. Instead, we elect the
> least unpopular candidate.

Sounds like America!

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#1147388

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-22 20:44 +0100
Message-ID<1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147377
Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> 
> >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or Obstetrician
> >> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills
> >> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male
> >> > >> or female.  It's a bit more than a glance.
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
> >> > >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
> >> > >
> 
> >I was perhaps a little too flippant - but the tests usually done to
> >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
> >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
> >
> I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
> non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
> have, it would have been less controversial.
[...]
> As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
> as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
> role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
> record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
> options

When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to
misinterpretation.  I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced
my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the
chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that
ruin peoples lives.


> I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
> must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.  

Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
that.  Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1147432

Fromathel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 08:10 +0000
Message-ID<1784794249-12588@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#1147388
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) posted:

> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> > 
> > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or Obstetrician
> > >> > >> who is present at the birth records what he or she observes and fills
> > >> > >> in the obligatory box on the form identifying the child as either male
> > >> > >> or female.  It's a bit more than a glance.
> > >> > >> 
> > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
> > >> > >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
> > >> > >
> > 
> > >I was perhaps a little too flippant

Did you think that flippancy was appropriate for maligning a whole profession?

> - but the tests usually done to
> > >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
> > >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
> > >
> > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
> > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
> > have, it would have been less controversial.
> [...]
> > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
> > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
> > role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
> > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
> > options
> 
> When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to
> misinterpretation.  I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced
> my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the
> chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that
> ruin peoples lives.
> 
> 
> > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
> > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.  
> 
> Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
> and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
> that.  Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
> legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.
> 
As you doubtless know, Ann Widdecombe was murdered by hitting her 21 times on
the head with a hammer. (She wasn't a nice person, but that doesn't justify her
murder.) Was it just a coincidence that this happened a week or two after the
"non-violent" group Bash Back produced a poster suggesting that the best way
to deal with people you don't like is to put on a mask and attack them with
a hammer? You can see the poster here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/11/militant-trans-group-wes-streeting/

Do we know whether the murderer was influenced by this poster? It seems 
an improbable coincidence if he wasn't.

On hearing about her death, a charming person at Aberdeen University said 
that she hoped she had died an “extremely painful death” and that she was 
“handcuffed to the bed as she screamed in agony”.



-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#1147445 — Re: Fireman [OT]

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-23 12:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<1ryp7cp.1vmi3tv11dnpfaN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147432
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

> liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) posted:
> 
> > Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 09:01:38 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> > > (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> > > 
> > > >> > >> I really don't follow your argument, Liz.  The Midwife or
> > > >> > >> Obstetrician who is present at the birth records what he or
> > > >> > >> she observes and fills in the obligatory box on the form
> > > >> > >> identifying the child as either male or female.  It's a bit
> > > >> > >> more than a glance.
> > > >> > >> 
> > > >> > >> That is not a control imposed on the child by the Midwife or
> > > >> > >> Obstetrician.  It's simply a record of what is observed.
> > > >> > >
> > > 
> > > >I was perhaps a little too flippant
> 
> Did you think that flippancy was appropriate for maligning a whole profession?

This was not my intention, five of subsequent my posts have explained
this and I have now apologised to you twice.


> > - but the tests usually done to
> > > >determine the sex of a baby are relatively superficial - the
> > > >professionals have far more important health-related matters to check.
> > > >
> > > I think if you had started the thread discussing the barriers that
> > > non-binary people, or people who have a reason to change their status,
> > > have, it would have been less controversial.
> > [...]
> > > As it is, it seemed as if you were labeling midwives and obstetricians
> > > as the root cause of the barriers because the weren't performing their
> > > role adequately.  Their role in the labeling aspect is to simply
> > > record what they observe on a required form that offers only two
> > > options
> > 
> > When I saw Athel's reply I realised that what I had written was open to
> > misinterpretation.  I hope my subsequent replies to him have reinforced
> > my point that it is not the fault of the medical professionals that the
> > chain which starts with them eventually leads to inhumane actions that
> > ruin peoples lives.
> > 
> > 
> > > I don't think there's anyone in this group who agrees that the status
> > > must be forever male or female and that status is non-amendable.
> > 
> > Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
> > and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
> > that.  Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
> > legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.
> > 
> As you doubtless know, Ann Widdecombe was murdered by hitting her 21 times
> on the head with a hammer. (She wasn't a nice person, but that doesn't
> justify her murder.) Was it just a coincidence that this happened a week
> or two after the "non-violent" group Bash Back produced a poster
> suggesting that the best way to deal with people you don't like is to put
> on a mask and attack them with a hammer? You can see the poster here:
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/11/militant-trans-group-wes-stree
> ting/
> 
> Do we know whether the murderer was influenced by this poster? It seems an
> improbable coincidence if he wasn't.
> 
> On hearing about her death, a charming person at Aberdeen University said
> that she hoped she had died an “extremely painful death” and that she
> was “handcuffed to the bed as she screamed in agony”.

I can't comment on this particular event because I don't know any of the
details.  

If any person has made someone's life not worth living there is a risk
that the persecuted individual may feel justified in returning the
favour - the only question is the levels at which this becomes
acceptable..


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1147444

FromJanet <nobody@home.com>
Date2026-07-23 11:58 +0100
Message-ID<MPG.44cc043ac024710a989701@news.individual.net>
In reply to#1147388
In article <1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>, 
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid says...
> 
> Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
> and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
> that.  Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
> legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.
> 

    Who pays you for misinformation ? 

    The recent Supreme Court judgement is a clarification of  the term 
"sex" as it is used in one specific law (The Equalities Act 2010).

     It's very clearly explained here. 
 
     https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/

    
      Janet UK.  

    
 

    

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#1147449 — Re: Fireman [OT]

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-23 13:02 +0100
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<1ryp92o.zekra3cli8pyN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147444
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

> In article <1ryo10q.1pvzypf1o8qri8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
> liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid says...
> > 
> > Possibly not in this group but in the UK the judicial system, the press
> > and much of the public have been taken over by people who do believe
> > that.  Vast amounts of money have been poured into misinfomation and
> > legal campaigns and we now have UK law based entirely on that belief.
> > 
> 
>     Who pays you for misinformation ? 

Nobody pays me personally for information of any kind - but the total
figures, taken from the organisations whose accounts are public,  from
2018 to 2024, are (in UKP millions)

46.7    UC Christian policy/advocacy (+29%)
43.9    Branches of US groups (+61%)
35.8    Anti-abortion (+31%)
10.3    UC Christian professionals (+16%)
3.6     Gender critical (anti transgender) (+1958%)
2.5     Conversion practices (+153%)
1.4     Other (+58%)

The percentage figures are the total increase in their spending over the
period 2019 - 2024  (Note: Conversion practices are illegal in most
European countries but not the UK)
 
>     The recent Supreme Court judgement is a clarification of  the term
> "sex" as it is used in one specific law (The Equalities Act 2010).

What is the word for a court that refuses to allow one side of the case
to be represented?  That is what the Supreme Court did. 


>      It's very clearly explained here. 
>  
>      https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/

The 'guidance' being forced into law on 5 August claims far more than
that for the Sopreme Court judgement and imposes impossible constrainsts
on employers, service providers and members of the public.  That is why
196 Members of Parliament rejected it (including the Chair of the Women
and Equalities Select Committe).

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/codes-practice/services-pub
lic-functions-and-associations-code-practice

Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are
when you go into a toilet?   After 5 August the law will be on the side
of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a
woman.  It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could
have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1147455 — Re: Fireman [OT]

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
Date2026-07-23 23:24 +1000
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<113t4mn$3s4qv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147449
On 23/07/26 22:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

> Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are
> when you go into a toilet?   After 5 August the law will be on the side
> of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a
> woman.  It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could
> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.

One way to do this is to piss on the stranger.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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#1147461 — Re: Fireman [OT]

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-23 15:35 +0100
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<1rypgrv.1xc1bddh3s39mN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147455
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:

> On 23/07/26 22:02, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> 
> > Do you want to be challenged by a stranger to prove what sex you are
> > when you go into a toilet?   After 5 August the law will be on the side
> > of the stranger who only has to say he didn't think you looked like a
> > woman.  It's no use carrying your birth certificate because that could
> > have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
> > the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.
> 
> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger.

No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even
gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal
examination).  They will now have to use the 'Gents'.

Transmen, with  a beard and a deep voice (indistinguishable from men
when fully dressed) should have to use the 'Ladies' but that is not
acceptable so there must be a third toilet just for them.  If they are
forced to use it, this 'outs' them as transgender and is an offence
under the Human Rights Act, and the general Data Protection Regulation
so they can sue their employer or whover controls the toilets.

If someone suspects the person is a transwoman or a transman they can
now legally ask them in a way that does not cause offense (how?) but the
person they ask is not obliged to tell them.  If an employer receives a
complaint from another employee, he can insist on seeing the person's
*original* birth certificate (not the current one) but if he then uses
or passes on that information in any way, he will be in breach of the
GDPR.

This has been passed by Parliament without a vote and comes ito effect
on 5 August.


If you want some black comedy, you need to watch the chair of the
committee that drew up this nonsense twisting this way and that to avoid
answering questions on how it is supposed to work.  She was found
incompetent at her job interview (which was also available online and is
cringe-worthy) then was appointed to the post by the Minister over the
heads of the expert committee who turned her down.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1147464 — Re: Fireman [OT]

FromBertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk>
Date2026-07-23 18:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<113tdqr$3v7vg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147461
Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham:

>>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
>>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.
>>
>> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger.
> 
> No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even
> gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal
> examination).  They will now have to use the 'Gents'.

I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like 
in any home that I know of.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1147466 — Re: Fireman [OT]

FromHibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 17:24 +0100
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<ncethnFb5e9U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1147464
Le 23/07/2026 à 17:00, Bertel Lund Hansen a écrit :
> 
> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like 
> in any home that I know of.


That could be the bog standard, of course, but it would have reduced 
throughput. Not important at home; quite important in busy public spaces 
such as railway stations or stadia.

Anyway, the sexes are incompatible. Men go alone, and generally in 
silence. Women go in pairs, and do whatever it is they do - blether, 
probably. If we were cheek by, er, cheek, the risk is that we might find 
out.

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#1147467 — Re: Fireman [OT]

FromBertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk>
Date2026-07-23 18:37 +0200
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<113tg06$ac5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1147466
Den 23.07.2026 kl. 18.24 skrev Hibou:

>> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like 
>> in any home that I know of.
> 
> 
> That could be the bog standard, of course, but it would have reduced 
> throughput. Not important at home; quite important in busy public spaces 
> such as railway stations or stadia.

We could have common toilets and a pissoir section - open for women of 
course.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1147468 — Re: Fireman [OT]

Fromliz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Date2026-07-23 17:42 +0100
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<1rypnmd.1dl6ce01nf7a3uN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
In reply to#1147464
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
> 
> >>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
> >>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.
> >>
> >> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger.
> > 
> > No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even
> > gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal
> > examination).  They will now have to use the 'Gents'.
> 
> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like
> in any home that I know of.

This is the logial, least problematical and cheapest answer; but it
doesn't suit the campaigners who are determined to weaponise toilets in
their zeal to drive transgender people out of normal life.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1147469 — Re: Fireman [OT]

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-23 13:20 -0400
SubjectRe: Fireman [OT]
Message-ID<d4j46ldckmm88lahffh0vqhp7q21jqgpr8@4ax.com>
In reply to#1147468
On Thu, 23 Jul 2026 17:42:36 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

>Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
>> Den 23.07.2026 kl. 16.35 skrev Liz Tuddenham:
>> 
>> >>> have been re-issued to show a different sex - you must prove your sex to
>> >>> the satisfaction of the owner of the toilet.
>> >>
>> >> One way to do this is to piss on the stranger.
>> > 
>> > No, many transwomen are externally indistinguishable from ciswomen (even
>> > gynaecologists have made mistakes before they performed an internal
>> > examination).  They will now have to use the 'Gents'.
>> 
>> I still don't understand that there isn't just one kind of toilet like
>> in any home that I know of.
>
>This is the logial, least problematical and cheapest answer; but it
>doesn't suit the campaigners who are determined to weaponise toilets in
>their zeal to drive transgender people out of normal life.


There are several places in this area where the "Men's" and "Women's"
bathroom have both been changed to "Unisex".  These are places that
have smaller bathrooms suitable for one person at a time.  "Next up"
goes in and locks the door.

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