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[OT] 44 countries

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  [OT] 44 countries athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-02 15:43 +0000
    Re: [OT] 44 countries wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2026-07-02 17:56 +0200
      Re: [OT] 44 countries wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2026-07-02 18:01 +0200
        Re: [OT] 44 countries athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-02 16:24 +0000
          Re: [OT] 44 countries Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-02 19:03 +0100
            Re: [OT] 44 countries Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-02 20:08 +0200
              Re: [OT] 44 countries athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-02 18:55 +0000
                Re: [OT] 44 countries Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-02 22:14 +0100
                  Re: [OT] 44 countries wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2026-07-02 23:41 +0200
                  Re: [OT] 44 countries msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2026-07-03 01:07 +0000
                    Re: [OT] 44 countries Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-07-03 10:08 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-03 11:48 +0200
                      Re: [OT] 44 countries Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-03 12:14 +0200
                Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-03 11:16 +0200
                  Re: [OT] 44 countries "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> - 2026-07-03 09:59 +0000
            Re: [OT] 44 countries occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-03 08:28 +0200
              Re: [OT] 44 countries Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-03 09:09 +0100
                Re: [OT] 44 countries "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> - 2026-07-03 09:59 +0000
                  Re: [OT] 44 countries Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-03 20:10 +0100
                    Re: [OT] 44 countries Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-04 06:57 +0200
                    Re: [OT] 44 countries occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 09:50 +0200
                      Re: [OT] 44 countries Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-04 19:31 +0100
              Re: [OT] 44 countries HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:20 +0100
      Re: [OT] 44 countries occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-03 08:46 +0200
    Re: [OT] 44 countries occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-03 08:22 +0200
    Re: [OT] 44 countries Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-07-03 09:09 +0200
      Re: [OT] 44 countries Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-03 09:09 +0100
        Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-03 11:48 +0200
          Re: [OT] 44 countries Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-03 12:00 +0000
            Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-03 22:08 +0200
              Re: [OT] 44 countries Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-03 21:30 +0000
                Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-04 11:16 +0200
        Re: [OT] 44 countries "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> - 2026-07-03 09:59 +0000
          Re: [OT] 44 countries nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-03 15:58 +0200
            Re: [OT] 44 countries athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-03 14:11 +0000

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#1146051 — [OT] 44 countries

I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to usage questions,
but it seems best to label it as OT.

I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a country
asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite consistent between
different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the countries
that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium etc.)
I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?

Russia and Turkey are both partially in Europe, but have large parts that are 
not: do I count them?

What about Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan? Are they in Europe? All three? 

What about Gibraltar? Is it a country? (I've counted the Vatican, but it's
not everyone's idea of a country. Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein and San
Marino obviously count.) 

What about Kosovo? Is it a country? Come to that, what about Abkhazia and 
Transnistria?

What about Malta, Cyprus and Iceland? Countries, yes, but are they in Europe?

-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#1146053

Op 2/07/2026 om 17:43 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
> 
> I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to usage questions,
> but it seems best to label it as OT.
> 
> I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a country
> asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite consistent between
> different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the countries
> that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium etc.)
> I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?
> 
> Russia and Turkey are both partially in Europe, but have large parts that are
> not: do I count them?
> 
> What about Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan? Are they in Europe? All three?
> 
> What about Gibraltar? Is it a country? (I've counted the Vatican, but it's
> not everyone's idea of a country. Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein and San
> Marino obviously count.)
> 
> What about Kosovo? Is it a country? Come to that, what about Abkhazia and
> Transnistria?
> 
> What about Malta, Cyprus and Iceland? Countries, yes, but are they in Europe?

Google AI answers 44 countries and gives a list. Mine was in Dutch.

-- 
guido wugi

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#1146054

Op 2/07/2026 om 17:56 schreef wugi:
> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:43 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
>>
>> I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to 
>> usage questions,
>> but it seems best to label it as OT.
>>
>> I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a 
>> country
>> asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite 
>> consistent between
>> different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the 
>> countries
>> that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain, 
>> Belgium etc.)
>> I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?

> 
> Google AI answers 44 countries and gives a list. Mine was in Dutch.
> 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe 


-- 
guido wugi

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#1146056

wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> posted:

> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:56 schreef wugi:
> > Op 2/07/2026 om 17:43 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
> >>
> >> I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to 
> >> usage questions,
> >> but it seems best to label it as OT.
> >>
> >> I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a 
> >> country
> >> asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite 
> >> consistent between
> >> different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the 
> >> countries
> >> that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain, 
> >> Belgium etc.)
> >> I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?
> 
> > 
> > Google AI answers 44 countries and gives a list. Mine was in Dutch.
> > 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe 
> 
Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table can't count.
There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes 
Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.

-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#1146061

On 02/07/2026 17:24, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> posted:
> 
>> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:56 schreef wugi:
>>> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:43 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to
>>>> usage questions,
>>>> but it seems best to label it as OT.
>>>>
>>>> I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a
>>>> country
>>>> asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite
>>>> consistent between
>>>> different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the
>>>> countries
>>>> that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain,
>>>> Belgium etc.)
>>>> I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?
>>
>>>
>>> Google AI answers 44 countries and gives a list. Mine was in Dutch.
>>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe
>>
> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table can't count.
> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
> 
I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the 
Eurovision contest, at one time or another.

-- 
Sam Plusnet

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#1146062

Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:

>> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table 
>> can't count.
>> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
>> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
>>
> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the 
> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.

Among them Israel which is not European.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1146069

Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:

> Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
> 
> >> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table 
> >> can't count.
> >> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
> >> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
> >>
> > I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the 
> > Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
> 
> Among them Israel which is not European.
> 
Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.

-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#1146072

On 02/07/2026 19:55, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
> 
>> Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>>> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table
>>>> can't count.
>>>> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
>>>> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
>>>>
>>> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
>>> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
>>
>> Among them Israel which is not European.
>>
> Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.
> 
In which case, Canada is European.

-- 
Sam Plusnet

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#1146077

Op 2/07/2026 om 23:14 schreef Sam Plusnet:
> On 02/07/2026 19:55, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
>> 
>>> Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
>>>
>>>>> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table
>>>>> can't count.
>>>>> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it 
>>>>> includes
>>>>> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
>>>>>
>>>> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
>>>> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
>>>
>>> Among them Israel which is not European.
>>>
>> Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.
>>
> In which case, Canada is European.

And Australia, I heard today.
Anyway, since a decade or two-three the acts have become too spectacular 
and the music itself unpalatable for sensitive melomaniac ears (what a 
form, compared with our "melomaan"):
Kettle noise would be an appropriate description, and is what we use in 
"my" circles when referring to Eurovision, or to most contemporaneous, 
eh, music, for that matter.

-- 
guido wugi

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#1146084

"Sam":
> >>> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
> >>> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.

Bertel Lund Hansen:
> >> Among them Israel which is not European.

Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> > Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.

"Sam":
> In which case, Canada is European.

Canada will enter the Eurovision contest next year.
-- 
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Canada resembles Chile a lot more than Chile does"
msb@vex.net          |                              --Athel Cornish-Bowden

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#1146108

In article <VsGcndU6F-nOltr3nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>, msb@vex.net 
says...
> 
> "Sam":
> > >>> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
> > >>> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
> 
> Bertel Lund Hansen:
> > >> Among them Israel which is not European.
> 
> Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> > > Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.
> 
> "Sam":
> > In which case, Canada is European.
> 
> Canada will enter the Eurovision contest next year.

  So Canada  will carry on being American until next year then  get  
across the Atlantic, and become part of Europe.

Hope it won't crash into Britain in the fog, and sink us.


   Janet

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#1146115

Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

> In article <VsGcndU6F-nOltr3nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>, msb@vex.net
> says...
> > 
> > "Sam":
> > > >>> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part
> > > >>> in the Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
> > 
> > Bertel Lund Hansen:
> > > >> Among them Israel which is not European.
> > 
> > Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> > > > Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.
> > 
> > "Sam":
> > > In which case, Canada is European.
> > 
> > Canada will enter the Eurovision contest next year.
> 
>   So Canada  will carry on being American until next year then  get  
> across the Atlantic, and become part of Europe.

If the song festival hasn't been sunk
by quarrels over the inclusion of Israel.

> Hope it won't crash into Britain in the fog, and sink us.

Guess they will travel by great circle,
and miss you altogether,
(partly travelling on the course of the Titanic)

Jan

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#1146123

Den 03.07.2026 kl. 11.08 skrev Janet:

>> "Sam":
>>> In which case, Canada is European.
>>
>> Canada will enter the Eurovision contest next year.
> 
>    So Canada  will carry on being American until next year then  get
> across the Atlantic, and become part of Europe.
> 
> Hope it won't crash into Britain in the fog, and sink us.

Don't worry. The first country it will crash into is Denmark/Greenland. 
In fact it already has.

-- 
Bertel, Kolt, Danmark

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#1146109

<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
> 
> > Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
> > 
> > >> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table
> > >> can't count.
> > >> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
> > >> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
> > >>
> > > I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
> > > Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
> > 
> > Among them Israel which is not European.
> > 
> Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.

They seem to have taken up the former European habit
of 'lebensraum machen', without calling it that,

Jan

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#1146120

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> <athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
> > 
> > > Den 02.07.2026 kl. 20.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
> > > > 
> > > > I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have
> > > > taken part in the Eurovision contest, at one time or
> > > > another.
> > > 
> > > Among them Israel which is not European.
> > > 
> > Culturally it is, a lot more than Kazakhstan.
> 
> They seem to have taken up the former European habit
> of 'lebensraum machen', without calling it that,

Ironic, or what?!

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#1146094

On 02/07/2026 20:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 02/07/2026 17:24, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> posted:
>>
>>> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:56 schreef wugi:
>>>> Op 2/07/2026 om 17:43 schreef athel.cb@gmail.com:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if this is really off-topic, as it can be related to
>>>>> usage questions,
>>>>> but it seems best to label it as OT.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see many answers on Quora to Americans who think that Europe is a
>>>>> country
>>>>> asserting that in reality it is 44 countries. The 44 is quite
>>>>> consistent between
>>>>> different people, but how do they arrive at 44? If I list all the
>>>>> countries
>>>>> that are unambiguously European countries (Germany, Italy, Spain,
>>>>> Belgium etc.)
>>>>> I arrive at 40, so which are the other 4?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Google AI answers 44 countries and gives a list. Mine was in Dutch.
>>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>> List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe
>>>
>> Hmm. Either I can't count or the person who prepared the main table
>> can't count.
>> There are 50 countries in the table, not 44. To my amazement, it includes
>> Kazakhstan. In my own list, I forgot Montenegro: shame on me.
>>
> I doubt if it helps, but a total of 52 countries have taken part in the
> Eurovision contest, at one time or another.
> 

Yeah. That includes Israel and Canada, IIRC. The Eurovision contest is
hardly a reference point for anything rational, including tunes.

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#1146103

Le 03/07/2026 à 07:28, occam a écrit :
> 
> Yeah. That includes Israel and Canada, IIRC. The Eurovision contest is
> hardly a reference point for anything rational, including tunes.


Hmm. Is it related to Looney Tunes?

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#1146118

Hibou wrote:

> Le 03/07/2026 à 07:28, occam a écrit :
> > 
> > Yeah. That includes Israel and Canada, IIRC. The Eurovision
> > contest is hardly a reference point for anything rational,
> > including tunes.
> 
> Hmm. Is it related to Looney Tunes?

If you've seen some of the performers in it, yes!

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#1146149

On 03/07/2026 10:59, Blueshirt wrote:
> 
> Hibou wrote:
> 
>> Le 03/07/2026 à 07:28, occam a écrit :
>>>
>>> Yeah. That includes Israel and Canada, IIRC. The Eurovision
>>> contest is hardly a reference point for anything rational,
>>> including tunes.
>>
>> Hmm. Is it related to Looney Tunes?
> 
> If you've seen some of the performers in it, yes!

The last Eurovision contest I watched was at around the same time as the 
last World Cup game I watched - it was the final, and England beat Germany.

-- 
Sam Plusnet
(1966)

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#1146162

On Fri, 3 Jul 2026 20:10:16 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 03/07/2026 10:59, Blueshirt wrote:
>> 
>> Hibou wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 03/07/2026 à 07:28, occam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Yeah. That includes Israel and Canada, IIRC. The Eurovision
>>>> contest is hardly a reference point for anything rational,
>>>> including tunes.
>>>
>>> Hmm. Is it related to Looney Tunes?
>> 
>> If you've seen some of the performers in it, yes!
>
>The last Eurovision contest I watched was at around the same time as the 
>last World Cup game I watched - it was the final, and England beat Germany.

The last one I watched too. 

Sandy Shaw won, with "Puppet on a string" IIRC. 

It was broadcast in monochrome 405-line TV. 


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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