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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1152180 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100 |
| Last post | 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 273 — 41 participants |
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Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-14 09:21 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 18:31 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-14 11:11 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 06:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:54 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 07:59 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:04 +0200
the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 10:01 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:25 +0800
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-17 12:20 +0200
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 13:57 +0100
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 14:21 +0100
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:17 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:30 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:14 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:50 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-23 14:07 +0100
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 15:51 +0200
Re: the fact that ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-28 18:48 +0000
Re: the fact that Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 09:44 +1100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 15:05 +0200
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 16:33 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:57 +0200
Re: the fact that richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-18 18:29 +0000
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 00:33 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:30 +0000
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-28 20:24 +0800
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-29 08:05 +0200
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-29 06:48 +0000
Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-29 16:21 +0800
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-29 18:22 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-29 17:59 +0200
Re: the fact that Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-28 21:55 +0530
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-29 08:28 +0200
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-29 18:23 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:05 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 13:04 +0000
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:25 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-15 06:21 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:43 +0100
Re: Fat books John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-14 08:02 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:46 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 15:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:46 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:48 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 21:57 +0200
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 10:07 +0530
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-18 10:33 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-18 19:22 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 00:53 +0100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:35 -0400
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 20:14 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 10:56 -0400
Re: Fat books ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-21 15:33 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:34 +0800
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 18:29 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 10:46 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-22 14:36 +1100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 22:25 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:54 +0100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 17:40 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:52 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-22 20:06 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-23 07:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-23 10:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-22 17:33 -0300
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 16:41 -0400
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-23 00:43 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 13:32 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 00:22 +0800
Re: Fat books Carlo XYZ <carloxyz@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-23 21:50 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 07:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 08:10 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-24 11:38 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:50 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 18:07 +0800
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-24 09:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 17:27 +0100
Re: Fat books Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-24 21:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:17 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:22 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:36 +0000
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:38 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 04:25 +0800
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Fat books squalk <sq@net.invalid> - 2026-10-25 20:34 +0000
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-25 14:56 -0700
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:10 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 11:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 18:18 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-25 18:09 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-26 05:47 +0000
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-24 14:23 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-21 20:13 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 14:30 -0400
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-21 21:26 +0200
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 10:53 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-16 03:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 19:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:19 +1100
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 23:32 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 16:00 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 17:01 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 09:27 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 04:02 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 17:55 +1300
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-14 20:02 -0300
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-15 08:19 +0200
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-15 16:09 -0300
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:56 +0800
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:09 +0200
Re: Fat books richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-16 09:03 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-16 10:27 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 12:22 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 11:05 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:34 +0100
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 16:44 +0000
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:21 +0000
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 17:46 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-14 18:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-14 20:37 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 21:40 +0100
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-14 23:19 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-15 08:48 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:34 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-15 16:57 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:01 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:06 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 12:15 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-14 20:16 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:49 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:33 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 22:00 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-16 10:49 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:37 +1100
Ferraro's Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards (was: Re: Fat books) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:29 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:49 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:49 +1100
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-16 11:28 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-16 09:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 06:35 +0100
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 18:14 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 21:22 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:06 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:45 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:54 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 11:44 +0200
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-19 15:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-18 22:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 18:43 +1300
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-19 22:03 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400
Re: Fat books "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:56 +0100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-21 09:17 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 11:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 17:25 +1100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 19:19 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400
Page 11 of 14 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 Next page →
| From | Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <11b6upq$2nine$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152579 |
On 20/10/2026 18:03, Robert Woodward wrote: > In article <11b4ant$1oktu$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> > wrote: > >> On 19/10/2026 18:18, Robert Woodward wrote: >>> In article <11b40ne$1mp0m$1@dont-email.me>, >>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: >> snip >>>> ObSF: I've forgotten the details and the author, but someone wrote a >>>> short story where a man invented an antigravity device, but couldn't get >>>> the patent office (or something like that) to take him seriously. So he >>>> created a magician's fake antigravity trick and sold it to them as a >>>> party trick, together with instructions on how to manipulate the fine >>>> thread that lifted the weight. >>>> >>>> Then he sat back and waited for them to figure out the thread was too >>>> fine to support the weight. >>> >>> I think I have read this (I am fairly certain in appeared in >>> Astouding/Analog sometime during John W. Campbell's editorship). I >>> thought it might be "Trade Secret" by Raymond F. Jones, but that toy was >>> free flying. Unfortunately, the ISFDB is down, so I can't check listings >>> of several other authors for a title that rings a bell. >> >> The Quy Effect by Arthur Sellings (1966)? > > Where was it published? (the ISFDB is still down and the MIT index > doesn't list it). Sorry, I have no idea. I don't have a copy to reread but it is a really great short story. Most short stories I forget but some remain.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s3a0xw.7591zf1m0d1smN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152579 |
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote: > In article <11b4ant$1oktu$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> > wrote: > > > On 19/10/2026 18:18, Robert Woodward wrote: > > > In article <11b40ne$1mp0m$1@dont-email.me>, > > > Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: > > snip > > >> ObSF: I've forgotten the details and the author, but someone wrote a > > >> short story where a man invented an antigravity device, but couldn't get > > >> the patent office (or something like that) to take him seriously. So he > > >> created a magician's fake antigravity trick and sold it to them as a > > >> party trick, together with instructions on how to manipulate the fine > > >> thread that lifted the weight. > > >> > > >> Then he sat back and waited for them to figure out the thread was too > > >> fine to support the weight. > > > > > > I think I have read this (I am fairly certain in appeared in > > > Astouding/Analog sometime during John W. Campbell's editorship). I > > > thought it might be "Trade Secret" by Raymond F. Jones, but that toy was > > > free flying. Unfortunately, the ISFDB is down, so I can't check listings > > > of several other authors for a title that rings a bell. > > > > The Quy Effect by Arthur Sellings (1966)? > > Where was it published? (the ISFDB is still down and the MIT index > doesn't list it). Google says it is a book, published originally by Berkley Medallion, Jan
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| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b8q35$3ecnl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152605 |
On 20/10/26 22:09, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote: > >> In article <11b4ant$1oktu$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G >> <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >> >>> On 19/10/2026 18:18, Robert Woodward wrote: >>>> In article <11b40ne$1mp0m$1@dont-email.me>, Peter Moylan >>>> <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: >>> snip >>>>> ObSF: I've forgotten the details and the author, but someone >>>>> wrote a short story where a man invented an antigravity >>>>> device, but couldn't get the patent office (or something >>>>> like that) to take him seriously. So he created a magician's >>>>> fake antigravity trick and sold it to them as a party trick, >>>>> together with instructions on how to manipulate the fine >>>>> thread that lifted the weight. >>>>> >>>>> Then he sat back and waited for them to figure out the >>>>> thread was too fine to support the weight. >>>> >>>> I think I have read this (I am fairly certain in appeared in >>>> Astouding/Analog sometime during John W. Campbell's >>>> editorship). I thought it might be "Trade Secret" by Raymond >>>> F. Jones, but that toy was free flying. Unfortunately, the >>>> ISFDB is down, so I can't check listings of several other >>>> authors for a title that rings a bell. >>> >>> The Quy Effect by Arthur Sellings (1966)? >> >> Where was it published? (the ISFDB is still down and the MIT index >> doesn't list it). > > Google says it is a book, published originally by Berkley Medallion, While the story I remember was definitely a short story. So it must have been in an anthology somewhere. There is a vague possibility that it was in "Before the Golden Age", a series edited by Asimov (and maybe others) of SF of the 1930s and 1940s. I've recently thrown those out, because the stories are even worse than Sturgeon's Law would suggest. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
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| From | Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <11b7ihb$2uhc6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152579 |
On 10/20/26 1:03 AM, Robert Woodward wrote: > In article <11b4ant$1oktu$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> > wrote: > >> On 19/10/2026 18:18, Robert Woodward wrote: >>> In article <11b40ne$1mp0m$1@dont-email.me>, >>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: >> snip >>>> ObSF: I've forgotten the details and the author, but someone wrote a >>>> short story where a man invented an antigravity device, but couldn't get >>>> the patent office (or something like that) to take him seriously. So he >>>> created a magician's fake antigravity trick and sold it to them as a >>>> party trick, together with instructions on how to manipulate the fine >>>> thread that lifted the weight. >>>> >>>> Then he sat back and waited for them to figure out the thread was too >>>> fine to support the weight. >>> >>> I think I have read this (I am fairly certain in appeared in >>> Astouding/Analog sometime during John W. Campbell's editorship). I >>> thought it might be "Trade Secret" by Raymond F. Jones, but that toy was >>> free flying. Unfortunately, the ISFDB is down, so I can't check listings >>> of several other authors for a title that rings a bell. >> >> The Quy Effect by Arthur Sellings (1966)? > > Where was it published? (the ISFDB is still down and the MIT index > doesn't list it). > Poking around a little (including abebooks), I turned up the following: • First UK Edition (Hardcover): Published in 1966 by Dennis Dobson (London) with jacket art by Richard Weaver. • First US Edition (Paperback): Published in 1967 by Berkley Publishing Corporation / Berkley Medallion (New York, catalog number X1350) as a first paperback publication. I'm sure that's incomplete, but hopefully it helps a little. Tony
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| From | "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <aqdhqm-uqp.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au> |
| In reply to | #1152538 |
On 19/10/2026 16:18, Robert Woodward wrote: > In article <11b40ne$1mp0m$1@dont-email.me>, > Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: > >> On 19/10/26 11:48, Scott Dorsey wrote: >>> BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: >> >>>> When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been experienced >>>> enough to realize that the Troll was there but no worry about that >>>> because at that time we only had comic books and SF magazines. No >>>> handy Internet at all. >>> >>> Didn't you look at the ads in the back? They were 100% trolling! >>> Start your own empire of sea horses! Get a thousand dollars worth of >>> rare stamps for only a penny! >>> >>> A friend of mine sent $5 which was an enormous amount of money at the >>> time to a PO box in the midwest to get directions for "ANTI-GRAVITY! >>> NO MAGNETS, GASSES OR EXOTIC FUELS!" He was disappointed. >> >> ObSF: I've forgotten the details and the author, but someone wrote a >> short story where a man invented an antigravity device, but couldn't get >> the patent office (or something like that) to take him seriously. So he >> created a magician's fake antigravity trick and sold it to them as a >> party trick, together with instructions on how to manipulate the fine >> thread that lifted the weight. >> >> Then he sat back and waited for them to figure out the thread was too >> fine to support the weight. > > I think I have read this (I am fairly certain in appeared in > Astouding/Analog sometime during John W. Campbell's editorship). I > thought it might be "Trade Secret" by Raymond F. Jones, but that toy was > free flying. Unfortunately, the ISFDB is down, so I can't check listings > of several other authors for a title that rings a bell. > I remember it too, and I'm pretty sure it's in an anthology, somewhere... I want to say it was Asimov, because it's reminiscent about the one with the bloke who could levitate. Cheers, Gary B-)
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njjlb1Fmf6oU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152476 |
Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >> >> I never read a fiction book >> and I certaintly never read >> a science fiction book > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > any book especially not even one on classical > physicw. [...] I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment. I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but I didn't see it; must look again). Unfortunately for present purposes, the articles are in French and behind a paywall (I was using Pressreader, courtesy of our local library): <https://www.lexpress.fr/idees-et-debats/la-fin-de-la-lecture-mene-lhumanite-vers-un-nouvel-age-des-tenebres-le-cri-dalarme-de-james-marriott-Q5YW5AT2PJCFRPA3F6JXWIRRUA/?cmp_redirect=true> At least some of the original work is in English - e.g.: <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1847929516>
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <_72BS.531021$FEvb.457620@fx12.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152483 |
On 10/18/2026 6:28 PM, Hibou wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >>> >>> I never read a fiction book >>> and I certaintly never read >>> a science fiction book >> >> Nor do ever appear to even cracked >> any book especially not even one on classical >> physicw. [...] > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > experiment. > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but > I didn't see it; must look again). > > Unfortunately for present purposes, the articles are in French and > behind a paywall (I was using Pressreader, courtesy of our local library): > > <https://www.lexpress.fr/idees-et-debats/la-fin-de-la-lecture-mene- > lhumanite-vers-un-nouvel-age-des-tenebres-le-cri-dalarme-de-james- > marriott-Q5YW5AT2PJCFRPA3F6JXWIRRUA/?cmp_redirect=true> > > At least some of the original work is in English - e.g.: > > <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1847929516> Well, I'm not sure decline in reading fiction measures anything much. After all, people are inundated with more interesting storytelling methods nowadays, mostly videos. A lot of people are "addicted" [1] to short form video dramas, the same way people listened to radio dramas -- literal soap operas -- in the 1930s. These are shot in phone proportions and one minute segments to maximize advertisement revenue. You can subscribe to these drama "sta- tions" to get rid of the ads. As much of entertainment is literally slush [2], and people aren't very judgemental when bored, I don't see much value in reading physical books over audiobooks, or phone dramas, for consooming the fiction. Of course, reading comprehension is developed over time and by reading lots of books, but we can also argue that reading comprehension isn't all that necessary in daily life for regular people. After all, higher education is now considered "passe" -- the accent is missing -- and just a formality to get through to enter /adult life/ and employment; it really doesn't matter what education people get. It's just a random flip of the coin by someone in H.R. if a person gets a job or not [3]. And to counter my prior arguments, sort of, I have to mention that I read a lot of nonfiction, which without reading comprehension, I would not understand at all. You can see some of the easier tomes in the background of my BlueSky profile, linked below. And to counter the counter argument, I'll finish with: I don't /need/ regular people to have such reading comprehension to enjoy their daily lives. I'm not an educational snob, and don't care if a particular per- son goes through higher education or not. Then to finish off, we can discuss these things at length, but please have a well formed -- if not well informed -- opinion about regular peo- ple and reading, so at least we can argue in good faith and don't have to move the goal posts all over the battleground for the ensuing flame- war [4]. Best wishes, and happy reading comprehension! [1] I use the quotes with purpose, it's not addiction as it's merely en- tertainment. [2] To differentiate from A.I. slop. [3] I have more to say on this subject, but will keep this soap box monologue short. [4] Here I make the presumptive argument that /finishing with/ and /fin- ishing off/ are two different expressions and can be used in succession. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njjtboFofa6U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152486 |
Le 18/10/2026 à 12:33, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson a écrit : > > Well, I'm not sure decline in reading fiction measures anything much. > After all, people are inundated with more interesting storytelling > methods nowadays, mostly videos. > > A lot of people are "addicted" [1] to short form video dramas, the same > way people listened to radio dramas -- literal soap operas -- in the > 1930s. These are shot in phone proportions and one minute segments to > maximize advertisement revenue. You can subscribe to these drama "sta- > tions" to get rid of the ads. > > As much of entertainment is literally slush [2], and people aren't very > judgemental when bored, I don't see much value in reading physical books > over audiobooks, or phone dramas, for consooming the fiction. > > Of course, reading comprehension is developed over time and by reading > lots of books, but we can also argue that reading comprehension isn't > all that necessary in daily life for regular people. After all, higher > education is now considered "passe" -- the accent is missing -- and just > a formality to get through to enter /adult life/ and employment; it > really doesn't matter what education people get. It's just a random > flip of the coin by someone in H.R. if a person gets a job or not [3]. > > And to counter my prior arguments, sort of, I have to mention that I > read a lot of nonfiction, which without reading comprehension, I would > not understand at all. You can see some of the easier tomes in the > background of my BlueSky profile, linked below. > > And to counter the counter argument, I'll finish with: I don't /need/ > regular people to have such reading comprehension to enjoy their daily > lives. I'm not an educational snob, and don't care if a particular per- > son goes through higher education or not. > > Then to finish off, we can discuss these things at length, but please > have a well formed -- if not well informed -- opinion about regular peo- > ple and reading, so at least we can argue in good faith and don't have > to move the goal posts all over the battleground for the ensuing flame- > war [4]. I've not expressed an opinion yet, save that the articles seem interesting. Here's one, though: the idea that books are good for people seems plausible. I think I know a bit about a few subjects, and I've forgotten a lot about others. They are the ones in which I've read a number of books - which is not to say that books are the only way to acquire knowledge - far from it - but they do let one delve more deeply. Films and videos, yes, love them; but novels are more versatile. It's hard to have a first-person viewpoint and inner narrative on film. 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' and 'The Reader' just aren't the same on screen, and I don't think 'La métaphysique des tubes' could ever be filmed. Fiction expands experience. One can live through alien invasions - in 'A for Andromeda', for instance; the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre; descend among the Morlocks, armed with just some matches and sulphur; hear about the politics of the Lilliputians; travel through Middle Earth; visit the Planet of the Apes; hunt for a mole in the Circus; suffer amorous bondage with Somerset Maugham, the torture of Japanese corporate life with Amélie Nothomb, or be a slave to pity with Stefan Zweig…. And writing? Writing is the least expensive medium and has the fewest limitations - and the pictures are even better than those on the radio.
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| From | Madhu <enometh@meer.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530 |
| Message-ID | <m333u33wkq.fsf@pison.robolove.meer.net> |
| In reply to | #1152489 |
* Hibou <njjtboFofa6U1@mid.individual.net> : Wrote on Sun, 18 Oct 2026 13:45:44 +0100: > Films and videos, yes, love them; but novels are more versatile. It's > hard to have a first-person viewpoint and inner narrative on > film. 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' and 'The Reader' just aren't the same on > screen, and I don't think 'La métaphysique des tubes' could ever be > filmed. > > Fiction expands experience. One can live through alien invasions - in > 'A for Andromeda', for instance; the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre; > descend among the Morlocks, armed with just some matches and sulphur; > hear about the politics of the Lilliputians; travel through Middle > Earth; visit the Planet of the Apes; hunt for a mole in the Circus; > suffer amorous bondage with Somerset Maugham, the torture of Japanese > corporate life with Amélie Nothomb, or be a slave to pity with Stefan > Zweig…. > > And writing? Writing is the least expensive medium and has the fewest > limitations - and the pictures are even better than those on the > radio. recently I've been tuning in to radio four and its sister channel and when I catch a bit of radio drama - I've on these occasions been led to check out the original (thrillers, mystery genres -e.g. Hammond Innes, PD James ), the dramatisations are great but I find the engagement with the novel format has something :literary: that the audio segments can't capture. maybe classic period comedy is an exception and comes across better on audio. (c.f. the recent deep six rebroadcasts), Agatha Christie's thrillers were from a decade before that and come close
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <7jJBS.174639$pE2.26933@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152494 |
On 10/18/2026 10:36 PM, Madhu wrote: > * Hibou <njjtboFofa6U1@mid.individual.net> : > Wrote on Sun, 18 Oct 2026 13:45:44 +0100: >> Films and videos, yes, love them; but novels are more versatile. It's >> hard to have a first-person viewpoint and inner narrative on >> film. 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' and 'The Reader' just aren't the same on >> screen, and I don't think 'La métaphysique des tubes' could ever be >> filmed. >> >> Fiction expands experience. One can live through alien invasions - in >> 'A for Andromeda', for instance; the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre; >> descend among the Morlocks, armed with just some matches and sulphur; >> hear about the politics of the Lilliputians; travel through Middle >> Earth; visit the Planet of the Apes; hunt for a mole in the Circus; >> suffer amorous bondage with Somerset Maugham, the torture of Japanese >> corporate life with Amélie Nothomb, or be a slave to pity with Stefan >> Zweig…. >> >> And writing? Writing is the least expensive medium and has the fewest >> limitations - and the pictures are even better than those on the >> radio. > > recently I've been tuning in to radio four and its sister channel and > when I catch a bit of radio drama - I've on these occasions been led to > check out the original (thrillers, mystery genres -e.g. Hammond Innes, > PD James ), the dramatisations are great but I find the engagement with > the novel format has something :literary: that the audio segments can't > capture. > > maybe classic period comedy is an exception and comes across better on > audio. (c.f. the recent deep six rebroadcasts), Agatha Christie's > thrillers were from a decade before that and come close You can also find modern -- and possibly old -- radio dramas on Audible. I myself do not find radio dramas that amusing, and usually prefer just one or two voices for the narration. Some old radio dramas are also available online. I believe I found /The Shadow/ once, but didn't listen to all of it, and don't have the link handy. I'll also amend that I used to love radio dramas as a kid, and I do not know if these dramas are still available somewhere; I guess most of them were translations. Maybe I'll revisit those, or modern radio dramas in the future, but in the immediate, I guess I'll stick to audio books for fiction. Best wishes, and happy radio dramas! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <1eJBS.256782$lGW8.178835@fx07.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152489 |
On 10/18/2026 8:45 PM, Hibou wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 12:33, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson a écrit : >> >> Well, I'm not sure decline in reading fiction measures anything much. >> After all, people are inundated with more interesting storytelling >> methods nowadays, mostly videos. >> >> A lot of people are "addicted" [1] to short form video dramas, the same >> way people listened to radio dramas -- literal soap operas -- in the >> 1930s. These are shot in phone proportions and one minute segments to >> maximize advertisement revenue. You can subscribe to these drama "sta- >> tions" to get rid of the ads. >> >> As much of entertainment is literally slush [2], and people aren't very >> judgemental when bored, I don't see much value in reading physical books >> over audiobooks, or phone dramas, for consooming the fiction. >> >> Of course, reading comprehension is developed over time and by reading >> lots of books, but we can also argue that reading comprehension isn't >> all that necessary in daily life for regular people. After all, higher >> education is now considered "passe" -- the accent is missing -- and just >> a formality to get through to enter /adult life/ and employment; it >> really doesn't matter what education people get. It's just a random >> flip of the coin by someone in H.R. if a person gets a job or not [3]. >> >> And to counter my prior arguments, sort of, I have to mention that I >> read a lot of nonfiction, which without reading comprehension, I would >> not understand at all. You can see some of the easier tomes in the >> background of my BlueSky profile, linked below. >> >> And to counter the counter argument, I'll finish with: I don't /need/ >> regular people to have such reading comprehension to enjoy their daily >> lives. I'm not an educational snob, and don't care if a particular per- >> son goes through higher education or not. >> >> Then to finish off, we can discuss these things at length, but please >> have a well formed -- if not well informed -- opinion about regular peo- >> ple and reading, so at least we can argue in good faith and don't have >> to move the goal posts all over the battleground for the ensuing flame- >> war [4]. > > > I've not expressed an opinion yet, save that the articles seem > interesting. Here's one, though: the idea that books are good for people > seems plausible. > > I think I know a bit about a few subjects, and I've forgotten a lot > about others. They are the ones in which I've read a number of books - > which is not to say that books are the only way to acquire knowledge - > far from it - but they do let one delve more deeply. > > Films and videos, yes, love them; but novels are more versatile. It's > hard to have a first-person viewpoint and inner narrative on film. > 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' and 'The Reader' just aren't the same on screen, > and I don't think 'La métaphysique des tubes' could ever be filmed. > > Fiction expands experience. One can live through alien invasions - in 'A > for Andromeda', for instance; the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre; descend > among the Morlocks, armed with just some matches and sulphur; hear about > the politics of the Lilliputians; travel through Middle Earth; visit the > Planet of the Apes; hunt for a mole in the Circus; suffer amorous > bondage with Somerset Maugham, the torture of Japanese corporate life > with Amélie Nothomb, or be a slave to pity with Stefan Zweig…. > > And writing? Writing is the least expensive medium and has the fewest > limitations - and the pictures are even better than those on the radio. Yes, fiction expands experience, and for learning, I myself prefer books. Yet, I've learned a lot from video lectures, both professionally produced, and random stuff on YouTube [1], so I don't think the medium matters as much, unless you want to stick to 19th century knowledge when books was the only medium that would stick [2]. I have not read much of what you mention above, so I cannot comment on the specific fictions. I'll just add that I loved reading about Lord Greystoke as a child [3]. His 2016 movie isn't even bad, but I have not seen his latest, which will be or was released this year. And well produced audio books are almost the same as reading a physical book. Bad narration, or a voice that doesn't fit my own image of the story can make the experience boring, or even disgusting. And since fiction is strictly linear [4] audio narration vs. reading is a matter of taste, and health. It should be quite obvious that if it's painful to turn pages, an audiobook is the better option. That last point is why I don't discriminate against people who prefer to listen to stories, rather than read physical books. The medical pro- fessionals of alt.usage.english will no doubt agree. I myself started to listen to audiobooks while walking about, and riding in cars. It makes the trip much more enjoyable -- especially when it's routine. But other people may prefer music, or silence, of which I have no judge- ment. Best wishes, and happy reading! [1] Some years ago, so I'm not current on what's good and what isn't. I hope Ben Eater is still teaching people how to make a 6502 with bread- boards. [2] And some of it is still valid today. You can read an old book on blacksmithing, and be delighted at how to make your own smithy, and not have to buy all the electrical tools. To over simplify, making hand cranked tools was a big part of the book as people weren't expected to always afford the latest and greatest steam engines. No, I don't know what book I was reading; it's somewhere on archive.org. [3] Just ask the nearest L.L.M. if you don't know who that is. [4] Most of the time. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b2qmk$194c0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152483 |
On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >>> >>> I never read a fiction book >>> and I certaintly never read >>> a science fiction book >> >> Nor do ever appear to even cracked >> any book especially not even one on classical >> physicw. [...] > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > experiment. > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost all schools. -- I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky dirty old man.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD525E4.3D16@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152496 |
Dimensional Traveler wrote: > > On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > >>> > >>> I never read a fiction book > >>> and I certaintly never read > >>> a science fiction book > >> > >>      Nor do ever appear to even cracked > >> any book especially not even one on classical > >> physicw. [...] > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > experiment. > > > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost > all schools. > > -- By "mandatory", do you mean Homework??? i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at home. How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take home?? All i know is i didn't do my homework. and wats wrong wit dat? i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City! Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail? dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card! How much does it cost to bribe a judge? wats the going rate these days?? I'm putting together a price list... -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD5635F.1F00@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152507 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > Dimensional Traveler wrote: > > > > On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I never read a fiction book > > >>> and I certaintly never read > > >>> a science fiction book > > >> > > >>      Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > >> any book especially not even one on classical > > >> physicw. [...] > > > > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > > experiment. > > > > > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost > > all schools. > > > > -- > > By "mandatory", do you mean Homework??? > > i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at > home. > > How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take > home?? > > All i know is i didn't do my homework. > > and wats wrong wit dat? > > i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City! > > Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail? > > dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card! What does 'stranger than fiction' mean??? Non-Fiction?? -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s36dmd.ssq2ubndf62xN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152483 |
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > >> > >> I never read a fiction book > >> and I certaintly never read > >> a science fiction book > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > any book especially not even one on classical > > physicw. [...] > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment. > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but > I didn't see it; must look again). Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy by several years, Jan
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD55F1A.1F80@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152505 |
J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > >> > > >> I never read a fiction book > > >> and I certaintly never read > > >> a science fiction book > > > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > > any book especially not even one on classical > > > physicw. [...] > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment. > > > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan > > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several > > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is > > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape > > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the > > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is > > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the > > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading > > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' > > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but > > I didn't see it; must look again). > > Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well > that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy > by several years, > > Jan I don't understand why people who go to church haven't read the bible?....is it fiction???? You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of God?" ...they say "Yes!" You say, "Have you read it?" I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? is there a comic book version? -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s3868w.1si31dn64q06zN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152522 |
The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > > > Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I never read a fiction book > > > >> and I certaintly never read > > > >> a science fiction book > > > > > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > > > any book especially not even one on classical > > > > physicw. [...] > > > > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe > > > that someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > > experiment. > > > > > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > > > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to > > > scan it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in > > > several articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and > > > non-fiction is fundamental to enlightenment and human development, > > > allows one to escape oneself and see the world from other points of > > > view. In politics, the book is detached from face-to-face immediacy > > > and emotion. It is infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and > > > checking, and is the antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable > > > superficiality. Reading fiction for thirty minutes a day was even > > > correlated with two years' increase in life expectancy (there may be > > > mention of a causal link, but I didn't see it; must look again). > > > > Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well > > that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy > > by several years, > > > > Jan > > I don't understand why people who go to church haven't read the > bible?....is it fiction???? > > > You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of God?" > ...they say "Yes!" > > You say, "Have you read it?" > > I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? > > > The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? > > > is there a comic book version? Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, Jan -- <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Genesis_(comic)>
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| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b62br$2eng7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152549 |
On 19/10/26 23:47, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Some idiot <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of >> God?" ...they say "Yes!" >> >> You say, "Have you read it?" >> >> I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? >> >> The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? >> >> is there a comic book version? > > Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the > version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, The other day I turned on the car radio and got the country and western programme. Some woman was singing "Jesus Take the Wheel". I couldn't make out all the words, but it seems that she let go of the steering wheel, Jesus didn't grab it, and she crashed. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s39zxh.1xxyc0k91nu1nN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152567 |
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: > On 19/10/26 23:47, J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Some idiot <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of > >> God?" ...they say "Yes!" > >> > >> You say, "Have you read it?" > >> > >> I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? > >> > >> The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? > >> > >> is there a comic book version? > > > > Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the > > version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, > > The other day I turned on the car radio and got the country and western > programme. Some woman was singing "Jesus Take the Wheel". I couldn't > make out all the words, but it seems that she let go of the steering > wheel, Jesus didn't grab it, and she crashed. That would be a song by Carrie Underwood, 2005, according to google. She slips out of control, throws her hands into the air, and survives nevertheless. Just another bit of reli-pop, Jan PS There is a Lybian pilot sentenced to ten years in jail for doing just the same. He ran out of fuel over sea, panicked, threw his hands in the air, and prayed. He crashed into the sea, killing 16. With correct and immediate action he could probably have made an emergency landing on land. See under Tuninter Flight 1153. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuninter_Flight_1153>
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njmijpF741lU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152505 |
Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> [...] Reading
>> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
>> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
>> I didn't see it; must look again).
>
> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
> by several years,
Droll - well a bit - maybe.
The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may
query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It
seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into
ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination,
concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the
extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely
beneficial.
¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
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