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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1152180 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100 |
| Last post | 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 263 — 41 participants |
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Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-14 09:21 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 18:31 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-14 11:11 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 06:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:54 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 07:59 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:04 +0200
the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 10:01 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:25 +0800
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-17 12:20 +0200
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 13:57 +0100
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 14:21 +0100
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:17 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:30 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:14 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:50 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-23 14:07 +0100
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 15:51 +0200
Re: the fact that Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 09:44 +1100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 15:05 +0200
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 16:33 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:57 +0200
Re: the fact that richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-18 18:29 +0000
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 00:33 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:30 +0000
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:05 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 13:04 +0000
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:25 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-15 06:21 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:43 +0100
Re: Fat books John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-14 08:02 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:46 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 15:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:46 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:48 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 21:57 +0200
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 10:07 +0530
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-18 10:33 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-18 19:22 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 00:53 +0100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:35 -0400
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 20:14 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 10:56 -0400
Re: Fat books ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-21 15:33 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:34 +0800
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 18:29 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 10:46 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-22 14:36 +1100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 22:25 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:54 +0100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 17:40 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:52 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-22 20:06 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-23 07:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-23 10:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-22 17:33 -0300
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 16:41 -0400
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-23 00:43 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 13:32 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 00:22 +0800
Re: Fat books Carlo XYZ <carloxyz@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-23 21:50 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 07:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 08:10 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-24 11:38 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:50 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 18:07 +0800
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-24 09:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 17:27 +0100
Re: Fat books Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-24 21:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:17 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:22 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:36 +0000
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:38 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 04:25 +0800
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Fat books squalk <sq@net.invalid> - 2026-10-25 20:34 +0000
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-25 14:56 -0700
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:10 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 11:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 18:18 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-25 18:09 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-26 05:47 +0000
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-24 14:23 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-21 20:13 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 14:30 -0400
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-21 21:26 +0200
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 10:53 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-16 03:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 19:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:19 +1100
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 23:32 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 16:00 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 17:01 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 09:27 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 04:02 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 17:55 +1300
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-14 20:02 -0300
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-15 08:19 +0200
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-15 16:09 -0300
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:56 +0800
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:09 +0200
Re: Fat books richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-16 09:03 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-16 10:27 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 12:22 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 11:05 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:34 +0100
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 16:44 +0000
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:21 +0000
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 17:46 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-14 18:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-14 20:37 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 21:40 +0100
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-14 23:19 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-15 08:48 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:34 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-15 16:57 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:01 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:06 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 12:15 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-14 20:16 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:49 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:33 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 22:00 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-16 10:49 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:37 +1100
Ferraro's Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards (was: Re: Fat books) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:29 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:49 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:49 +1100
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-16 11:28 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-16 09:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 06:35 +0100
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 18:14 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 21:22 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:06 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:45 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:54 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 11:44 +0200
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-19 15:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-18 22:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 18:43 +1300
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-19 22:03 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400
Re: Fat books "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:56 +0100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-21 09:17 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 11:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 17:25 +1100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 19:19 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <1eJBS.256782$lGW8.178835@fx07.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152489 |
On 10/18/2026 8:45 PM, Hibou wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 12:33, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson a écrit : >> >> Well, I'm not sure decline in reading fiction measures anything much. >> After all, people are inundated with more interesting storytelling >> methods nowadays, mostly videos. >> >> A lot of people are "addicted" [1] to short form video dramas, the same >> way people listened to radio dramas -- literal soap operas -- in the >> 1930s. These are shot in phone proportions and one minute segments to >> maximize advertisement revenue. You can subscribe to these drama "sta- >> tions" to get rid of the ads. >> >> As much of entertainment is literally slush [2], and people aren't very >> judgemental when bored, I don't see much value in reading physical books >> over audiobooks, or phone dramas, for consooming the fiction. >> >> Of course, reading comprehension is developed over time and by reading >> lots of books, but we can also argue that reading comprehension isn't >> all that necessary in daily life for regular people. After all, higher >> education is now considered "passe" -- the accent is missing -- and just >> a formality to get through to enter /adult life/ and employment; it >> really doesn't matter what education people get. It's just a random >> flip of the coin by someone in H.R. if a person gets a job or not [3]. >> >> And to counter my prior arguments, sort of, I have to mention that I >> read a lot of nonfiction, which without reading comprehension, I would >> not understand at all. You can see some of the easier tomes in the >> background of my BlueSky profile, linked below. >> >> And to counter the counter argument, I'll finish with: I don't /need/ >> regular people to have such reading comprehension to enjoy their daily >> lives. I'm not an educational snob, and don't care if a particular per- >> son goes through higher education or not. >> >> Then to finish off, we can discuss these things at length, but please >> have a well formed -- if not well informed -- opinion about regular peo- >> ple and reading, so at least we can argue in good faith and don't have >> to move the goal posts all over the battleground for the ensuing flame- >> war [4]. > > > I've not expressed an opinion yet, save that the articles seem > interesting. Here's one, though: the idea that books are good for people > seems plausible. > > I think I know a bit about a few subjects, and I've forgotten a lot > about others. They are the ones in which I've read a number of books - > which is not to say that books are the only way to acquire knowledge - > far from it - but they do let one delve more deeply. > > Films and videos, yes, love them; but novels are more versatile. It's > hard to have a first-person viewpoint and inner narrative on film. > 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' and 'The Reader' just aren't the same on screen, > and I don't think 'La métaphysique des tubes' could ever be filmed. > > Fiction expands experience. One can live through alien invasions - in 'A > for Andromeda', for instance; the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre; descend > among the Morlocks, armed with just some matches and sulphur; hear about > the politics of the Lilliputians; travel through Middle Earth; visit the > Planet of the Apes; hunt for a mole in the Circus; suffer amorous > bondage with Somerset Maugham, the torture of Japanese corporate life > with Amélie Nothomb, or be a slave to pity with Stefan Zweig…. > > And writing? Writing is the least expensive medium and has the fewest > limitations - and the pictures are even better than those on the radio. Yes, fiction expands experience, and for learning, I myself prefer books. Yet, I've learned a lot from video lectures, both professionally produced, and random stuff on YouTube [1], so I don't think the medium matters as much, unless you want to stick to 19th century knowledge when books was the only medium that would stick [2]. I have not read much of what you mention above, so I cannot comment on the specific fictions. I'll just add that I loved reading about Lord Greystoke as a child [3]. His 2016 movie isn't even bad, but I have not seen his latest, which will be or was released this year. And well produced audio books are almost the same as reading a physical book. Bad narration, or a voice that doesn't fit my own image of the story can make the experience boring, or even disgusting. And since fiction is strictly linear [4] audio narration vs. reading is a matter of taste, and health. It should be quite obvious that if it's painful to turn pages, an audiobook is the better option. That last point is why I don't discriminate against people who prefer to listen to stories, rather than read physical books. The medical pro- fessionals of alt.usage.english will no doubt agree. I myself started to listen to audiobooks while walking about, and riding in cars. It makes the trip much more enjoyable -- especially when it's routine. But other people may prefer music, or silence, of which I have no judge- ment. Best wishes, and happy reading! [1] Some years ago, so I'm not current on what's good and what isn't. I hope Ben Eater is still teaching people how to make a 6502 with bread- boards. [2] And some of it is still valid today. You can read an old book on blacksmithing, and be delighted at how to make your own smithy, and not have to buy all the electrical tools. To over simplify, making hand cranked tools was a big part of the book as people weren't expected to always afford the latest and greatest steam engines. No, I don't know what book I was reading; it's somewhere on archive.org. [3] Just ask the nearest L.L.M. if you don't know who that is. [4] Most of the time. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b2qmk$194c0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152483 |
On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >>> >>> I never read a fiction book >>> and I certaintly never read >>> a science fiction book >> >> Nor do ever appear to even cracked >> any book especially not even one on classical >> physicw. [...] > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > experiment. > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost all schools. -- I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky dirty old man.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD525E4.3D16@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152496 |
Dimensional Traveler wrote: > > On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > >>> > >>> I never read a fiction book > >>> and I certaintly never read > >>> a science fiction book > >> > >>      Nor do ever appear to even cracked > >> any book especially not even one on classical > >> physicw. [...] > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > experiment. > > > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost > all schools. > > -- By "mandatory", do you mean Homework??? i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at home. How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take home?? All i know is i didn't do my homework. and wats wrong wit dat? i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City! Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail? dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card! How much does it cost to bribe a judge? wats the going rate these days?? I'm putting together a price list... -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD5635F.1F00@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152507 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > Dimensional Traveler wrote: > > > > On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote: > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I never read a fiction book > > >>> and I certaintly never read > > >>> a science fiction book > > >> > > >>      Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > >> any book especially not even one on classical > > >> physicw. [...] > > > > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > > experiment. > > > > > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost > > all schools. > > > > -- > > By "mandatory", do you mean Homework??? > > i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at > home. > > How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take > home?? > > All i know is i didn't do my homework. > > and wats wrong wit dat? > > i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City! > > Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail? > > dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card! What does 'stranger than fiction' mean??? Non-Fiction?? -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s36dmd.ssq2ubndf62xN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152483 |
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > >> > >> I never read a fiction book > >> and I certaintly never read > >> a science fiction book > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > any book especially not even one on classical > > physicw. [...] > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment. > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but > I didn't see it; must look again). Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy by several years, Jan
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD55F1A.1F80@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152505 |
J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > >> > > >> I never read a fiction book > > >> and I certaintly never read > > >> a science fiction book > > > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > > any book especially not even one on classical > > > physicw. [...] > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment. > > > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan > > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several > > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is > > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape > > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the > > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is > > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the > > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading > > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' > > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but > > I didn't see it; must look again). > > Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well > that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy > by several years, > > Jan I don't understand why people who go to church haven't read the bible?....is it fiction???? You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of God?" ...they say "Yes!" You say, "Have you read it?" I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? is there a comic book version? -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s3868w.1si31dn64q06zN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152522 |
The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > > > Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit : > > > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I never read a fiction book > > > >> and I certaintly never read > > > >> a science fiction book > > > > > > > > Nor do ever appear to even cracked > > > > any book especially not even one on classical > > > > physicw. [...] > > > > > > > > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe > > > that someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful > > > experiment. > > > > > > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about > > > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to > > > scan it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in > > > several articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and > > > non-fiction is fundamental to enlightenment and human development, > > > allows one to escape oneself and see the world from other points of > > > view. In politics, the book is detached from face-to-face immediacy > > > and emotion. It is infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and > > > checking, and is the antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable > > > superficiality. Reading fiction for thirty minutes a day was even > > > correlated with two years' increase in life expectancy (there may be > > > mention of a causal link, but I didn't see it; must look again). > > > > Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well > > that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy > > by several years, > > > > Jan > > I don't understand why people who go to church haven't read the > bible?....is it fiction???? > > > You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of God?" > ...they say "Yes!" > > You say, "Have you read it?" > > I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? > > > The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? > > > is there a comic book version? Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, Jan -- <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Genesis_(comic)>
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| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b62br$2eng7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152549 |
On 19/10/26 23:47, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Some idiot <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of >> God?" ...they say "Yes!" >> >> You say, "Have you read it?" >> >> I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? >> >> The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? >> >> is there a comic book version? > > Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the > version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, The other day I turned on the car radio and got the country and western programme. Some woman was singing "Jesus Take the Wheel". I couldn't make out all the words, but it seems that she let go of the steering wheel, Jesus didn't grab it, and she crashed. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s39zxh.1xxyc0k91nu1nN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #1152567 |
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: > On 19/10/26 23:47, J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Some idiot <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of > >> God?" ...they say "Yes!" > >> > >> You say, "Have you read it?" > >> > >> I mean, who cares what God has to say, right? > >> > >> The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read???? > >> > >> is there a comic book version? > > > > Many, I guess. If Genesis is enough for you I can recommend the > > version by Robert Crumb, with real Crumb men and women, > > The other day I turned on the car radio and got the country and western > programme. Some woman was singing "Jesus Take the Wheel". I couldn't > make out all the words, but it seems that she let go of the steering > wheel, Jesus didn't grab it, and she crashed. That would be a song by Carrie Underwood, 2005, according to google. She slips out of control, throws her hands into the air, and survives nevertheless. Just another bit of reli-pop, Jan PS There is a Lybian pilot sentenced to ten years in jail for doing just the same. He ran out of fuel over sea, panicked, threw his hands in the air, and prayed. He crashed into the sea, killing 16. With correct and immediate action he could probably have made an emergency landing on land. See under Tuninter Flight 1153. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuninter_Flight_1153>
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njmijpF741lU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152505 |
Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> [...] Reading
>> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
>> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
>> I didn't see it; must look again).
>
> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
> by several years,
Droll - well a bit - maybe.
The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may
query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It
seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into
ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination,
concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the
extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely
beneficial.
¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <fzoBS.1166$QEE1.349@fx18.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152551 |
On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
> Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> [...] Reading
>>> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
>>> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
>>> I didn't see it; must look again).
>>
>> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
>> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
>> by several years,
>
>
> Droll - well a bit - maybe.
>
> The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
> longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
> studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may
> query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
> 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
> shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
>
> At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It
> seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into
> ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination,
> concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the
> extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely
> beneficial.
>
>
> ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM. DOOM
is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
a point. Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
ing cognitive decline than reading books.
I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books. YMMV
and so forth.
--
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <27350.21508.420845.40950@parhasard.net> |
| In reply to | #1152552 |
Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
> On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
>
> > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
> > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
> > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
> > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
> > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
> > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
> >
> > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
> > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
> > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
> > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
> > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
> >
> > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
>
> The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM. DOOM
> is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
> a point. Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
> ing cognitive decline than reading books.
>
> I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books. YMMV
> and so forth.
The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
for learning in that area.
My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
then, then ...
I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <NlwBS.102767$%y18.90363@fx06.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152558 |
On 10/20/2026 1:31 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
>
> Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
>
> > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
> >
> > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
> > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
> > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
> > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
> > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
> > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
> > >
> > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
> > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
> > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
> > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
> > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
> > >
> > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
> >
> > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM. DOOM
> > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
> > a point. Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
> > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
> >
> > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books. YMMV
> > and so forth.
>
> The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
> it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
> for learning in that area.
>
> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>
> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
> then, then ...
>
> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>
Well, I started cryptohack recently, and have on occasion attempted to
learn Middle Egyptian -- the reason that doesn't work is well something
I'm working on [1] -- quite seriously, and have a copy of Gardiner's
Grammar on the shelf, then there's of course general cryptography, as
per my bookshelf in my profile picture, plus of course all the compiler
books.
Turns out I'm currently bad at instruction selection, and that's also
because I've never done that before, so I'm working up to that part.
I've gotten quite good at parsing with lex, yacc, and similar tools.
So, erm, yes, I also have Wheelock's Latin on the shelf, and am current-
ly on a Latin break, along with the Egyptological break. And of course
the relevant video courses for both. I did say I had attempted that se-
riously in the past.
Now, something else? Not sure, and I'm not sure your other patients are
interested in ancient languages, and cryptography, and compiler con-
struction, but you can suggest all of these activities. It's not like
learning material is missing in the world these days.
As I have an unbounded list of hobbies and projects, I'm sure I'll men-
tion new ones as I pick them up in the near-ish future, and other elder-
ly people in alt.usage.english can get inspired as well. I mean, it's
not like I'm afraid of competition in hobbies.
Best wishes, and happy treating elderly patients!
[1] I'm not about to dump my personal medical history in alt.usage.eng-
lish.
--
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <obpjqmxife.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> |
| In reply to | #1152569 |
On 2026-10-19, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 10/20/2026 1:31 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
>>
>> Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
>>
>> > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
>> >
>> > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
>> > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
>> > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
>> > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
>> > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
>> > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
>> > >
>> > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
>> > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
>> > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
>> > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
>> > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
>> > >
>> > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
>> >
>> > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM. DOOM
>> > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
>> > a point. Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
>> > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
>> >
>> > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books. YMMV
>> > and so forth.
>>
>> The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
>> it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
>> for learning in that area.
>>
>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
>> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
>> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>>
>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
>> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
>> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
>> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
>> then, then ...
>>
>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>>
>
> Well, I started cryptohack recently,
This?
<https://cryptohack.org/>
Looks interesting, thanks.
--
The life of a repo man is always intense.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <HlJBS.174640$pE2.123795@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #1152597 |
On 10/20/2026 5:37 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2026-10-19, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>
>> On 10/20/2026 1:31 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
>>>
>>> Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
>>>
>>> > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
>>> > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
>>> > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
>>> > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
>>> > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
>>> > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
>>> > >
>>> > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
>>> > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
>>> > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
>>> > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
>>> > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
>>> > >
>>> > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
>>> >
>>> > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM. DOOM
>>> > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
>>> > a point. Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
>>> > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
>>> >
>>> > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books. YMMV
>>> > and so forth.
>>>
>>> The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
>>> it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
>>> for learning in that area.
>>>
>>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
>>> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
>>> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>>>
>>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
>>> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
>>> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
>>> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
>>> then, then ...
>>>
>>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I started cryptohack recently,
>
> This?
>
> <https://cryptohack.org/>
>
> Looks interesting, thanks.
>
>
Yes. I had also previously started with cryptopals.com, which is kind
of /harder/ as you're expected to code more. It's of course your choice
if you choose to use ready made libraries, but I always took it as a
challenge to just write my own when I started. There's also no gamifi-
cation which is a let down for some, but more relaxing for me.
Best wishes, and happy cryptography!
--
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <uknddlh660hma7lndueqhtr5ploe458thm@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #1152558 |
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 18:31:48 +0100, Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote: >The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less >it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need >for learning in that area. > >My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of >ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories, >learn something difficult that you’re bad at. > >So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an >external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards >until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months >and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then, >then, then ... > >I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients. I've been reading "A Rhetoric of the Unreal" by Christine Brooke-Rose, which I think falls into the "learning something difficult that you're bad at" category. It's an analysis of sf and fantasy from a literary theoretical point of view, and discusses Todorov's distinction between the uncanny, the fantastic and the marvellous. Apparently when the weird stuff isn't supernatural, it's uncanny. If it's definitely supernatural, it's marvellous, and if its uncertain which it is, it's fantastic. The epitome of the fantastic is "The Turn of the Screw" by Henry James, and to save space in an already fat book (see, I'm still on topic) uses abbreviations like AM for "author's metatext" and NM for "narrator's metatext" so one gets plenty of practice at storing new memories. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njoedoFg4ekU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152558 |
Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit : > > My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of > ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories, > learn something difficult that you’re bad at. > > So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an > external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards > until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months > and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then, > then, then ... > > I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients. That's a good point, and a troublesome one. Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, a small net loss.) Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do - eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the research and thinking yourself….)
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| From | Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <27351.7942.661414.851375@parhasard.net> |
| In reply to | #1152583 |
Ar an fichiú lá de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Hibou: > Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit : > > > > My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss > > of ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new > > memories, learn something difficult that you’re bad at. > > > > So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by > > an external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with > > flashcards until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters > > for six months and get to the point you and your audience are happy with > > your speeches, then, then, then ... > > > > I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients. > > That's a good point, and a troublesome one. > > Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. For me there is. The research isn’t there (yet) regarding my above rule of thumb. There’s strong evidence that higher IQ correlates with lower levels of dementia, which is not the same thing as saying that higher IQ is protective against cognitive decline (since if you’re starting from a higher baseline, more cognitive decline will be needed for a dementia diagnosis.) > Is it worth extending > one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something > that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these figures, > which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, a small net > loss.) As well as extending the life span, on average you likely will improve your quality of life at the end; if you prevent diabetes by exercising, if you keep down your blood pressure and prevent a stroke, you won’t get stinking diabetic foot infections and you’ll continue to be able to walk. I don’t practice what I preach but I have enough podcasts that I want to listen to that driving long distances is not a chore. If I exercise (and most of the health benefit from exercise is from a half-hour walk a day, fairly unambitious), I listen to the podcasts and I’m not bored. > Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning things one > doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem in this respect - > I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I want to do, devilishly > difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel the answer is to integrate > beneficial activities into what one has to do - eschew the car and the bus, and > walk instead; shun the lift and escalator and take the stairs; make a > two-fingered gesture to AI, do the research and thinking yourself….) Yep, that’s a good approach to life. -- ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out / How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’ (C. Moore)
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| From | Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <hlpjqmxife.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> |
| In reply to | #1152583 |
On 2026-10-20, Hibou wrote: > Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit : >> >> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of >> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories, >> learn something difficult that you’re bad at. >> >> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an >> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards >> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months >> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then, >> then, then ... >> >> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients. > > > That's a good point, and a troublesome one. > > Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending > one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something > that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these > figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, > a small net loss.) It's not just about lifespan, but about healthspan. But while lifespans have grown, healthspans have not kept up. Many people now live a decade or more dealing with multiple chronic conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, chronic lung disease, arthritis, and cognitive decline. The result is a wide, often painful gap between how long people live and how long they live well. <https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-aging-and-longevity/lifespan-vs-healthspan-why-how-you-age-matters-more-than-how-long-you-live> > Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning > things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem > in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I > want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel > the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do > - eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and > escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the > research and thinking yourself….) Those are all good ideas, but some strength/resistance work is also necessary to maintain muscle mass & bone density, both of which are essential for good physical function later in life. -- the purple piper plays his tune the choir softly sing three lullabies in an ancient tongue
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| From | Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mn.a2e77eaa1b3230df.127094@snitoo> |
| In reply to | #1152596 |
Adam Funk explained on 10/20/2026 :
> On 2026-10-20, Hibou wrote:
>
>> Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :
>>>
>>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss
>>> of ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new
>>> memories, learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>>>
>>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by
>>> an external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with
>>> flashcards until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters
>>> for six months and get to the point you and your audience are happy with
>>> your speeches, then, then, then ...
>>>
>>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>>
>>
>> That's a good point, and a troublesome one.
>>
>> Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending
>> one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something
>> that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these
>> figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%,
>> a small net loss.)
>
> It's not just about lifespan, but about healthspan.
>
> But while lifespans have grown, healthspans have not kept up. Many
> people now live a decade or more dealing with multiple chronic
> conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, chronic lung disease,
> arthritis, and cognitive decline. The result is a wide, often
> painful gap between how long people live and how long they live
> well.
>
> <https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-aging-and-longevity/lifespan-vs-healthspan-why-how-you-age-matters-more-than-how-long-you-live>
>
>
>> Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning
>> things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem
>> in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I
>> want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel
>> the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do
>> - eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and
>> escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the
>> research and thinking yourself….)
>
> Those are all good ideas, but some strength/resistance work is also
> necessary to maintain muscle mass & bone density, both of which are
> essential for good physical function later in life.
Isn't there also evidence that exercise helps delay cognitive decline?
/dps
--
Why would I want to be alone with my thoughts?
Have you heard some of the shit that comes out of my mouth?
-- the World Wide Web
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