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Priests as freedom fighters

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  Priests as freedom fighters Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-03-03 07:19 +0200
    Re: Priests as freedom fighters Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> - 2025-03-03 17:46 -0800
      Re: Priests as freedom fighters Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-03-04 05:54 +0200
        Re: Priests as freedom fighters Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> - 2025-03-03 23:04 -0800
          Re: Priests as freedom fighters Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-03-05 06:47 +0200
            Re: Priests as freedom fighters Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> - 2025-03-04 21:11 -0800
    Re: Priests as freedom fighters vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2025-03-09 00:17 +0000
    Re: Priests as freedom fighters vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2025-03-25 23:07 +0000

#812 — Priests as freedom fighters

For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
with any of the established political parties —for good reason.

The Serbian Orthodox Church, the largest religious community in the
country, has been divided over these protests from the very beginning.
While the overwhelming majority of its bishops have chosen to remain
silent, there have been isolated voices within the episcopate both for
and against the protests. Students of the Faculty of Theology in
Belgrade have joined the protests, and individual theologians have
expressed their support as well. Patriarch Porfirije, the head of the
Church, has remained ambiguous. He has avoided openly supporting the
protests, under the pretext that the Church needs to remain above
societal divisions. However, through internal and informal channels of
communication, one gets an impression that he supports the students,
even if he may be too weak to publicly oppose the regime.

One of the few clerics who have openly spoken against the protests is
Bishop David of Kruševac, a city in central Serbia. In a text dated
February 9, 2025, using mostly complicated (and empty) phraseology and
quasi-theological arguments, he linked the protests and “neo-Orthodox”
theologians, accusing them of promoting “a different Orthodoxy” that
distorts and corrupts tradition. Before him, Irinej, Bishop of Novi
Sad (northern Serbia), criticized what he called the “Orthodox
Trilateral” — an alliance of (unnamed but hinted-at) theological
institutions from the US and Europe — as a “neo-Orthodox theological
international” (and nothing good was meant by this). 

Despite these and other pressures, the priests of the Kruševac
Cathedral demonstrated both initiative and courage, both freedom and
their Christian and human dignity. On February 27, they stepped out of
the church and, in front of the cathedral, greeted the protesters as
they marched through the streets of Kruševac. They gave them their
blessings and arranged for food and drinks to be placed along the
sidewalks for all participants.


To fully appreciate this act, one must understand how church
structures function in countries where Orthodoxy has been the dominant
and traditional faith. The Orthodox Church is organized as an
“episcopocentric” institution, meaning that local bishops wield
enormous power over priests in their diocese, with little to no
external oversight except in extreme cases. In other words, priests
are often at the mercy of their local bishop: if the bishop is a
reasonable and good person, priests are in a solid position, but if
the bishop is authoritarian, egotistical, or even psychotic,
effectively only God can help them. There are, although very few,
extraordinary bishops, who are competent, dedicated to the Church, but
also kind-hearted and hard-working people. These dioceses are known
among the priests and the laity as “paradise on earth.” 

The decision of the priests to support the protesters comes against
such backdrop. They organized spontaneously, they say “naturally”,
with initially only a few of them, later joined by others. Although
they would probably object to the term “self-management” or
“anarcho-syndicalist” (given that these terms come primarily from the
political vocabulary, and are mostly linked to atheistic and even
anti-religious contexts), their spontaneous organization, at their own
initiative, and against the backdrop of authoritarian ecclesiastical
context, resembles the self-managerial, or anarcho-syndicalist
organization (that the students themselves have implemented in their
own organization from the beginning of the protests). 

This anarcho-syndicalist mode of organization is not a novelty in the
Balkans. One should keep in mind the tradition of Yugoslav socialist
self-management, but also the even earlier tradition of traditional
Serbian village cooperatives. 

In the context of the Orthodox Church, there are historical reports of
anarcho-syndicalist organization of monks and priests in Russia, in
the aftermath of the February Revolution (1917), as a means of
reclaiming freedom from authoritarian church structures.
The decision of these priests to express their position—both as
Orthodox Christians and as citizens—in the situation when the
political views of their bishop, and his arrogant rhetoric, were
clearly expressed and known, is a brave act, a demonstration of
freedom, and a commitment to justice and basic human dignity. This act
can serve as an example for other priests to stand up in the name of
human freedom and dignity, to reject repression, hypocrisy and
corruption, and to challenge, non-violently, the despotic rule of both
the local political leaders and individual bishops. Practicing such
Orthodox Christian “anarchism” not only affirms their status as free
citizens but also upholds their identity as Orthodox Christians—people
of dignity, committed to freedom, justice, and, above all – love.

Source:
<https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>

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#813

On Mar 2, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
(Message-ID:<8keasjp7ej3mur7lcdaiu34apln61ubhrn@4ax.com>):

> For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
> repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
> clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
> were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
> since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
> with any of the established political parties —for good reason.
>
> The Serbian Orthodox Church, the largest religious community in the
> country, has been divided over these protests from the very beginning.
> While the overwhelming majority of its bishops have chosen to remain
> silent, there have been isolated voices within the episcopate both for
> and against the protests. Students of the Faculty of Theology in
> Belgrade have joined the protests, and individual theologians have
> expressed their support as well. Patriarch Porfirije, the head of the
> Church, has remained ambiguous. He has avoided openly supporting the
> protests, under the pretext that the Church needs to remain above
> societal divisions. However, through internal and informal channels of
> communication, one gets an impression that he supports the students,
> even if he may be too weak to publicly oppose the regime.
>
> One of the few clerics who have openly spoken against the protests is
> Bishop David of Kruševac, a city in central Serbia. In a text dated
> February 9, 2025, using mostly complicated (and empty) phraseology and
> quasi-theological arguments, he linked the protests and “neo-Orthodox”
> theologians, accusing them of promoting “a different Orthodoxy” that
> distorts and corrupts tradition. Before him, Irinej, Bishop of Novi
> Sad (northern Serbia), criticized what he called the “Orthodox
> Trilateral” — an alliance of (unnamed but hinted-at) theological
> institutions from the US and Europe — as a “neo-Orthodox theological
> international” (and nothing good was meant by this).
>
> Despite these and other pressures, the priests of the Kruševac
> Cathedral demonstrated both initiative and courage, both freedom and
> their Christian and human dignity. On February 27, they stepped out of
> the church and, in front of the cathedral, greeted the protesters as
> they marched through the streets of Kruševac. They gave them their
> blessings and arranged for food and drinks to be placed along the
> sidewalks for all participants.
>
> To fully appreciate this act, one must understand how church
> structures function in countries where Orthodoxy has been the dominant
> and traditional faith. The Orthodox Church is organized as an
> “episcopocentric” institution, meaning that local bishops wield
> enormous power over priests in their diocese, with little to no
> external oversight except in extreme cases. In other words, priests
> are often at the mercy of their local bishop: if the bishop is a
> reasonable and good person, priests are in a solid position, but if
> the bishop is authoritarian, egotistical, or even psychotic,
> effectively only God can help them. There are, although very few,
> extraordinary bishops, who are competent, dedicated to the Church, but
> also kind-hearted and hard-working people. These dioceses are known
> among the priests and the laity as “paradise on earth.”
>
> The decision of the priests to support the protesters comes against
> such backdrop. They organized spontaneously, they say “naturally”,
> with initially only a few of them, later joined by others. Although
> they would probably object to the term “self-management” or
> “anarcho-syndicalist” (given that these terms come primarily from the
> political vocabulary, and are mostly linked to atheistic and even
> anti-religious contexts), their spontaneous organization, at their own
> initiative, and against the backdrop of authoritarian ecclesiastical
> context, resembles the self-managerial, or anarcho-syndicalist
> organization (that the students themselves have implemented in their
> own organization from the beginning of the protests).
>
> This anarcho-syndicalist mode of organization is not a novelty in the
> Balkans. One should keep in mind the tradition of Yugoslav socialist
> self-management, but also the even earlier tradition of traditional
> Serbian village cooperatives.
>
> In the context of the Orthodox Church, there are historical reports of
> anarcho-syndicalist organization of monks and priests in Russia, in
> the aftermath of the February Revolution (1917), as a means of
> reclaiming freedom from authoritarian church structures.
> The decision of these priests to express their position—both as
> Orthodox Christians and as citizens—in the situation when the
> political views of their bishop, and his arrogant rhetoric, were
> clearly expressed and known, is a brave act, a demonstration of
> freedom, and a commitment to justice and basic human dignity. This act
> can serve as an example for other priests to stand up in the name of
> human freedom and dignity, to reject repression, hypocrisy and
> corruption, and to challenge, non-violently, the despotic rule of both
> the local political leaders and individual bishops. Practicing such
> Orthodox Christian “anarchism” not only affirms their status as free
> citizens but also upholds their identity as Orthodox Christians—people
> of dignity, committed to freedom, justice, and, above all – love.
>
> Source:
> <https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>

Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on freedom from sin?

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#814

On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:46:23 -0800, Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:

>On Mar 2, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
>(Message-ID:<8keasjp7ej3mur7lcdaiu34apln61ubhrn@4ax.com>):
>
>> For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
>> repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
>> clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
>> were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
>> since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
>> with any of the established political parties —for good reason.

>> Source:
>> <https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>
>
>Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on freedom from sin?

Isn't corruption sinful?


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost

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#815

On Mar 3, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
(Message-ID:<3bucsjp6fmv8ua3p1u55r3lgtje4nojisd@4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:46:23 -0800, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz>  wrote:
>
> > On Mar 2, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
> > (Message-ID:<8keasjp7ej3mur7lcdaiu34apln61ubhrn@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
> > > repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
> > > clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
> > > were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
> > > since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
> > > with any of the established political parties —for good reason.
>
> > > Source:
> > > <https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>
> >
> > Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on freedom from sin?
>
> Isn't corruption sinful?

Of course, but who is doing the convicting, Jesus Christ in their hearts or 
people via the mind?

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#816

On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 23:04:10 -0800, Dr.Who <dr.who@nunur.biz> wrote:

>On Mar 3, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
>(Message-ID:<3bucsjp6fmv8ua3p1u55r3lgtje4nojisd@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:46:23 -0800, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz>  wrote:
>>
>> > On Mar 2, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
>> > (Message-ID:<8keasjp7ej3mur7lcdaiu34apln61ubhrn@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
>> > > repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
>> > > clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
>> > > were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
>> > > since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
>> > > with any of the established political parties —for good reason.
>>
>> > > Source:
>> > > <https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>
>> >
>> > Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on freedom from sin?
>>
>> Isn't corruption sinful?
>
>Of course, but who is doing the convicting, Jesus Christ in their hearts or 
>people via the mind?

So the Prophet Nathan should not have spoken to King David about his
sin via his mind, but left it to Jesus to speak in his heart?


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#817

On Mar 4, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
(Message-ID:<bolfsjl1jhm53h3t6pc2vk0udafc4q2jh8@4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 23:04:10 -0800, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz>  wrote:
>
> > On Mar 3, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
> > (Message-ID:<3bucsjp6fmv8ua3p1u55r3lgtje4nojisd@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:46:23 -0800, Dr.Who<dr.who@nunur.biz>  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mar 2, 2025, Steve Hayes wrote
> > > > (Message-ID:<8keasjp7ej3mur7lcdaiu34apln61ubhrn@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > For months, Serbian citizens have been protesting against the
> > > > > repressive regime of Aleksandar Vucic and the entire corrupt,
> > > > > clientelist system developed or escalated under his rule. The protests
> > > > > were initiated by the students of Serbian Universities, but they have
> > > > > since evolved into a nationwide popular movement that refuses to align
> > > > > with any of the established political parties —for good reason.
> > >
> > > > > Source:
> > > > > <https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/priests-as-freedom-fighters/>
> > > >
> > > > Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on freedom from sin?
> > >
> > > Isn't corruption sinful?
> >
> > Of course, but who is doing the convicting, Jesus Christ in their hearts or
> > people via the mind?
>
> So the Prophet Nathan should not have spoken to King David about his
> sin via his mind, but left it to Jesus to speak in his heart?

Were they not under a different covenant and dispensation? However, it is 
interesting to note that King David did, on occasion did adorn himself with 
the priests ephod to speak with God directly.

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#819

YOu don't like it when right wingers hijack religion, but it's ok for left
wingers? YOu are a hypocrite.

-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#820

   Madison felt corruption prevented tyranny.  Every so often CHina executes
someone out of favor on grounds of supposed corruption.  Mussolini abolished
the mafia but Patton brought it back.  Fanatics tend to think anyone who
disagrees with them has ulterior, corrupt motives. THe believe only their way
is right and anyone who disagrees is evil. Just like the heathen
missiologists who feel entitled to push left wing muck into our religion but
scream to bloody petunias over anyone on the right.

-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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