Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > alt.os.linux > #80982 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-17 00:39 +1100 |
| Last post | 2025-03-02 02:39 +0000 |
| Articles | 14 on this page of 94 — 22 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.os.linux
So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-17 00:39 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-16 15:06 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-02-16 15:45 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:37 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:43 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-02-18 12:01 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 09:41 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 20:32 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 14:51 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 21:59 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-16 09:59 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-02-16 16:43 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:21 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-16 11:33 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 20:00 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:56 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-18 11:17 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 18:02 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:02 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 22:55 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 14:16 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 00:23 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:38 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:30 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-21 11:07 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-21 15:19 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 16:04 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 18:15 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-26 07:08 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-26 15:29 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-27 19:00 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:52 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-27 11:24 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 13:57 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 09:53 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 13:27 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 19:00 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 20:37 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-28 19:38 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-28 11:13 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 02:36 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-02 00:51 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-02 18:59 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-04 23:32 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 22:13 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-03-01 22:27 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 00:41 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-02 01:06 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-03 10:22 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-04 19:26 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 14:05 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-28 20:06 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-28 11:24 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-28 14:50 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-16 10:53 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-16 14:04 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-16 21:52 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-17 19:40 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:15 -0600
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-17 21:05 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-18 02:31 -0600
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 13:29 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 20:29 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-20 21:09 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-20 13:27 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-20 17:46 -0800
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 18:08 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:11 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:40 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-02-21 19:30 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-22 04:02 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-22 19:54 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-02-25 12:28 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 03:46 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 22:37 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-22 21:58 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:19 +0100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:36 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-21 08:34 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:31 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-22 03:53 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-16 10:54 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-16 17:01 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 09:57 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-16 10:34 -0800
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-02-17 08:52 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-17 14:49 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 20:17 +1100
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-21 10:35 +0000
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:41 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-02-26 18:53 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-26 20:14 -0500
Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 02:39 +0000
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 18:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <67b8c685$0$17$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #81023 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 17:46:05 -0800, Stan Brown wrote: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 13:27:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> I remember the advent of the 386 which had many capabilities that were >> not used at the time. That CPU was amazing, compared with the 286 and >> 8086. >> >> > I think that was the first one that didn't need a separate > floating-point processor, right? That was the 486 (later called 486DX, when they made a FPU-less 486SX). "SX" was used with the 386, but it meant something different. The 386SX had a limited (24-bit) external (off chip) address bus, and a multiplexed data bus. Both were 32-bit CPUs and neither had an internal FPU. BTW, I remember an ad calling the 386SX the "SX-iest". BTW2, one other variation of the 386 was the 376, which lacked real mode. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Error! No keyboard detected. Press F1 to continue."
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-22 03:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vpbhog$kuiu$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> |
| In reply to | #81023 |
On 2025-02-21, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 13:27:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> I remember the advent of the 386 which had many capabilities that were >> not used at the time. That CPU was amazing, compared with the 286 and 8086. >> > > I think that was the first one that didn't need a > separate floating-point processor, right? no, that was the 80486DX 80386 was the first 32 bit -- Jasen. 🇺🇦 Слава Україні
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rick <rick@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 10:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <613318991879c24a7ae9ac10f809068ea7c118ee@i2pn2.org> |
| In reply to | #80982 |
On 2/16/2025 8:39 AM, Daniel70 wrote: > I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll > want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the > 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but > then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) > > Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and > DVD+R?? > > (Note ... I'm not discussing R v RW, just the -/+.) > > Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where 'they' > talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) and > Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = -5V and > Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are > differences ..... but with DVDs?? > > On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD > are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' and > 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and 'South > Poles' of the Domains??) I haven't done a lot with DVD discs in years, but I agree with those who say that if you are using modern equipment there is not a big difference between them. I had a slight preference for the +R, but usually based purchase decisions on prices and deals. I would normally look to spend around 25 cents US per disc (100 for $25 was a good deal) but have no idea what prices are like nowadays. A far bigger issue in the old days was the brand of disc. While I eventually tended to buy Verbatim, I used several other brands at different times, and there were a few like Magnavox that were pretty bad and I tried to avoid them. Nowadays, with external drives being so cheap and having such large capacities, I rarely use DVDs and would probably have to hunt around to find an external DVD drive if I needed to create one.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 17:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vot5lq$m028$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #80988 |
Rick wrote: > On 2/16/2025 8:39 AM, Daniel70 wrote: >> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs >> I'll want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of >> the 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... >> but then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) >> >> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and >> DVD+R?? >> >> (Note ... I'm not discussing R v RW, just the -/+.) >> >> Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where >> 'they' talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) >> and Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = >> -5V and Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are >> differences ..... but with DVDs?? >> >> On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD >> are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' >> and 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and >> 'South Poles' of the Domains??) > > I haven't done a lot with DVD discs in years, but I agree with those who > say that if you are using modern equipment there is not a big difference > between them. I had a slight preference for the +R, but usually based > purchase decisions on prices and deals. I would normally look to spend > around 25 cents US per disc (100 for $25 was a good deal) but have no > idea what prices are like nowadays. > > A far bigger issue in the old days was the brand of disc. While I > eventually tended to buy Verbatim, I used several other brands at > different times, and there were a few like Magnavox that were pretty bad > and I tried to avoid them. Nowadays, with external drives being so > cheap and having such large capacities, I rarely use DVDs and would > probably have to hunt around to find an external DVD drive if I needed > to create one. I've used Verbatim -R for decades; and never had a fail. Seldom used these days, but the other day I needed one for a downloaded OS.iso. I got one from a package in the cupboard (been there for well over 12 years) and it went just fine. I also have wallets with recorded Verbatim -R discs from over 20 years ago. I try one now and again; and never a single fail. Some of the players are old, some only 5 or so years. I think I'd give Verbatim a 10/10 rating. Ed
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-18 09:57 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vp275f$1o9u3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #80991 |
On Sun, 2/16/2025 12:01 PM, Ed Cryer wrote: > Rick wrote: >> On 2/16/2025 8:39 AM, Daniel70 wrote: >>> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) >>> >>> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R?? >>> >>> (Note ... I'm not discussing R v RW, just the -/+.) >>> >>> Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where 'they' talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) and Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = -5V and Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are differences ..... but with DVDs?? >>> >>> On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' and 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and 'South Poles' of the Domains??) >> >> I haven't done a lot with DVD discs in years, but I agree with those who say that if you are using modern equipment there is not a big difference between them. I had a slight preference for the +R, but usually based purchase decisions on prices and deals. I would normally look to spend around 25 cents US per disc (100 for $25 was a good deal) but have no idea what prices are like nowadays. >> >> A far bigger issue in the old days was the brand of disc. While I eventually tended to buy Verbatim, I used several other brands at different times, and there were a few like Magnavox that were pretty bad and I tried to avoid them. Nowadays, with external drives being so cheap and having such large capacities, I rarely use DVDs and would probably have to hunt around to find an external DVD drive if I needed to create one. > > I've used Verbatim -R for decades; and never had a fail. Seldom used these days, but the other day I needed one for a downloaded OS.iso. I got one from a package in the cupboard (been there for well over 12 years) and it went just fine. > I also have wallets with recorded Verbatim -R discs from over 20 years ago. I try one now and again; and never a single fail. > Some of the players are old, some only 5 or so years. > I think I'd give Verbatim a 10/10 rating. > > Ed Considering they are mostly a middle-man, that's a high compliment. To their credit, they use a five digit part number. If someone on the Internet were to say "their 12345 product gave a good result", if you bought the 12345 product you would see the same. They likely source all of a particular SKU, from a single manufacturer. So if the product was made by Ritek, and was 12345 Verbatim, then buying that a year later it would still be Ritek and with the same media tag. Verbatim seems to own some physical facilities now. They may have acquired a company that makes jewel boxes for housing discs. They may have acquired M-Disc factory (only part of it). A few other things would still be the arms length, buy-a-lot-from-a-factory type business. It's unclear, why more of the foreign suppliers did not do direct marketing of their own. Ritek could easily have purchased cake boxes and packaged up their stuff, shutting down innumerable middle-men as a side effect. But they didn't do that. That's why, one year, Ritek was only available as stacks of bare discs, *wrapped in Saran Wrap*. Surely the most stupid packaging exercise ever practiced by my computer store. And that's because Ritek never ever put their stuff in a cake box. When the end came, they sold raw discs, and the store didn't have cake boxes either, so they used Saran Wrap. Did the users buy those that way ? I don't think so. You can't hump Saran wrapped piles of DVDs around your livingroom. They will spill all over the floor. At least Verbatim has cake boxes. But the media itself comes, most of the time, from someone else. It's only at the collapse and end of the industry, that Verbatim has acquired small factory setups of its own. Because, no other supplier could stretch themselves to take these factories "into the fold". One of the factories, has competing employees working elbow to elbow, as a "joint venture", until the market is gone at least. More cats sleeping with dogs. Rather than throw the equipment away, the factory doubled up, the employees went with it (because the chemistry is a trade secret and some of them know how to make discs). Paul
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 10:34 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.421bcfaa58302849903b3@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #80982 |
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 00:39:31 +1100, Daniel70 wrote: > > I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll > want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the > 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but > then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) And this doesn't help? > https://www.google.com/search?q=DVD-R+vs.+DVD%2BR&udm=14 Google does a pretty good job, in general, of answering "what's the difference between A and B" if you simply search for "A vs. B" (no quotes). -- Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/ Shikata ga nai...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-17 08:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnvr5u68.983.dan@djph.net> |
| In reply to | #80982 |
On 2025-02-16, Daniel70 wrote: > I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll > want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the > 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but > then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) > > Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and > DVD+R?? Was something to do with the dyes and actual burn logic (i.e. "which consortium are you buying into?") -- a lot like betamax vs. VHS (etc.) As I recall, one of them died out; or drives converged and everything burns anything at this point (unless you have a 15-20 year old burner, in which case ... ) -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-17 14:49 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vp03rl$19qba$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #80996 |
On Mon, 2/17/2025 3:52 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2025-02-16, Daniel70 wrote:
>> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll
>> want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the
>> 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but
>> then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R)
>>
>> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and
>> DVD+R??
>
> Was something to do with the dyes and actual burn logic (i.e. "which
> consortium are you buying into?") -- a lot like betamax vs. VHS (etc.)
>
> As I recall, one of them died out; or drives converged and everything
> burns anything at this point (unless you have a 15-20 year old burner,
> in which case ... )
>
You might be thinking of BluRay versus HDDVD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
"HD DVD was envisioned to be the successor to
the standard DVD format, but lost out to Blu-ray"
DVD with the (+) and (-) sign, are typically both supported
on modern DVD drives you might have bought. However, if
you're making wedding videos for distribution to family
members, then you might select (-) media, to try to get
really old DVD drives to work.
Paul
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-18 20:17 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <vp1j89$1kqth$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #80996 |
On 17/02/2025 7:52 pm, Dan Purgert wrote: > On 2025-02-16, Daniel70 wrote: >> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll >> want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the >> 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but >> then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) >> >> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and >> DVD+R?? > > Was something to do with the dyes and actual burn logic (i.e. "which > consortium are you buying into?") -- a lot like betamax vs. VHS (etc.) > > As I recall, one of them died out; or drives converged and everything > burns anything at this point (unless you have a 15-20 year old burner, > in which case ... ) > Hmm!! Now that you mention it, Dan, my HP 6730b Laptop (which I'd be using to do the burning) is vintage 2007!! ;-P -- Daniel70
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 10:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vp9kub$dtlr$4@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> |
| In reply to | #80982 |
On 2025-02-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote: > I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll > want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the > 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but > then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) > > Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R?? Different chemical process. > Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where 'they' > talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) and > Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = -5V and > Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are > differences ..... but with DVDs?? Different strength of laser pulses I think. > On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD > are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' and > 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and 'South > Poles' of the Domains??) The sifference between + and - is one bit in ASCII. in DVD R "+" is a newer technology, and older DVD-R drives can't write it. A spool of DVDs say 50 pieces, that's like 250GB. Why do this? USB flash is cheaper, SSDs are cheaper. Hard drives are much cheaper. -- Jasen. 🇺🇦 Слава Україні
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 12:41 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vpadrn$3gact$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81027 |
On Fri, 2/21/2025 5:35 AM, Jasen Betts wrote: > On 2025-02-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote: >> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll >> want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the >> 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but >> then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) >> >> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R?? > > Different chemical process. > >> Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where 'they' >> talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) and >> Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = -5V and >> Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are >> differences ..... but with DVDs?? > > Different strength of laser pulses I think. > >> On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD >> are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' and >> 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and 'South >> Poles' of the Domains??) > > The sifference between + and - is one bit in ASCII. in DVD R "+" is > a newer technology, and older DVD-R drives can't write it. > > > A spool of DVDs say 50 pieces, that's like 250GB. > > Why do this? USB flash is cheaper, SSDs are cheaper. Hard drives are much > cheaper. > The lasers have programmable strength. read is different than write is different than erase strength. The media tag indicates the strength, and as well there is a burn experiment the drive can do to determine the strength. But the instructions in the media tag would generally give a better result. And the chemistry and appearance are interesting, even if they don't match the colors you see at home right now :-) https://ccssinc.net/index.php?main_page=cdr_dye_explained At least we see why the gold-colored media is archival. The PhthaloCyanine is transparent. Paul Paul
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 18:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vpo9ih$2pl2o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #80982 |
On 2025-02-16 08:39, Daniel70 wrote: > I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll > want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the > 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but > then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) > I remember the problems of working with floppies, and the advertised claims that DVDs would outlast me in storage, so I took to using them for archival storage - until I found the ones I had burned were deteriorating just a year later. I find commercially-produced DVDs hold up very well indeed, but home-burned ones, not so much. Not only that, but each single-layer DVD holds just a bit under 5GB, meaning that I was amassing a LOT of burned DVDs. I switched to an external hard drive, and never looked back. A 1 TB drive that I can hold in the palm of my hand can hold as much as roughly 200 DVDs, it's faster to write on/to, and it lasts for a very, very long time. My newest desktop build doesn't even have an optical drive, and I took the optical drives out of my laptops to replace them with a second hard drive. I put one of those optical drives in an external USB case for that maybe once a year when I want to use one. And I don't miss them, even a little bit. TJ
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 20:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vpoe9a$2qao0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81053 |
On Wed, 2/26/2025 6:53 PM, TJ wrote: > On 2025-02-16 08:39, Daniel70 wrote: >> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R) >> > I remember the problems of working with floppies, and the advertised claims that DVDs would outlast me in storage, so I took to using them for archival storage - until I found the ones I had burned were deteriorating just a year later. > > I find commercially-produced DVDs hold up very well indeed, but home-burned ones, not so much. Not only that, but each single-layer DVD holds just a bit under 5GB, meaning that I was amassing a LOT of burned DVDs. > > I switched to an external hard drive, and never looked back. A 1 TB drive that I can hold in the palm of my hand can hold as much as roughly 200 DVDs, it's faster to write on/to, and it lasts for a very, very long time. > > My newest desktop build doesn't even have an optical drive, and I took the optical drives out of my laptops to replace them with a second hard drive. I put one of those optical drives in an external USB case for that maybe once a year when I want to use one. > > And I don't miss them, even a little bit. > > TJ These things worked better if you understood the "lore" of optical media. And there were specialist web sites with the information you needed. For example, when a new optical drive model would come out, someone would do a review. They would use their Liteon drive to do an "error scan" after the new drive did a burn, and see what "characteristic" showed itself. Optical media is never error free. A good burn has a flat characteristic, and around 10 errors per unit. Optical media has powerful error correction, and the technology influenced how error correction was done on SSD drives (the techniques are much more powerful than a Fire Code on a hard drive ECC). Bad burns, sometimes, "near the end of the disc", the scan would reveal a rising error rate, that would rise to 10^4 and at that point, the drive would start to lose the ability to stay locked to the groove. The drive "goes crazy" when this happens, as the firmware is designed to make that the number one priority, ignoring all other interfaces (such as the eject button). Bad burns happen, when the drive does not have the media tag in its repertoire. Some brands of drive, would "rush to market" with about half the media tags, and a flash upgrade was available later, to add in the missing tags. But other brands, might never produce new firmwares. The drives started with one file, but later there were two things to flash in the drive. There were also bootleg firmwares, for Region Free and removal of Rip Lock. I removed a Rip Lock on one of my drives. If you do an optical disc burn, and it has the rising error characteristic at the end of it, chances are, this is a disc that is going to fail to work well a year from now. It is unlikely that the disc will remain "stable forever" with that characteristic present. The retailer does not normally make the discs. A third party makes the discs, in a rather large factory. Tao Yuden, for example, had a good reputation among hobbyists, and made good media. But they didn't have the distribution muscle of some of the contenders. Where I live, the odds of TY being on a shelf was just about zero. What I used, was Ritek, which worked "just fine" and it retailed as Maxell or Fujitsu, or a few other fake brands I forget. The second last lot of disc blanks I bought, were "Philips", which is a fake name, and the discs are actually made by CMC, and not all their media is a keeper. I still have some of those left. I wasn't exactly pleased that this topic involved "lore" and "hobbyists", but in the end, I got decent results. The only media with a serious loss problem, was some Memorex CDRW, in which one disc was so bad, that it was completely transparent after three months. And if you shoved that disc in the drive, the drive would ignore the eject button while it tried to find the spiral groove. Miserable stuff. Nothing ever approached being that bad, since. Some of the blanks burned, but did not pass a verify (which means a scan would have shown 10^4 error rate). But the transparent one, you couldn't even burn it... as there was nothing to burn. It looked like a Polycarbonate disc. Pressed discs are an entirely different process than write-able media. The write-able media can be "write once", or it can be "write multiple". On the RW write multiple, there is an "erase" command to prepare the media for another write session. Whereas the write-once, you cannot erase that stuff. As for the erase command, some situations allow "Quick Erase", other situations demand "Full Erase" which takes forever. And I don't really know what the trigger is for those. You can ask for a Quick, and the software can tell you "piss off, I'm doing a Full". BluRay disc blanks, are available up to 100GB capacity. Each blank was quite expensive (whatever the market will bear), so there was no particular savings to be had over usage of DVD when first introduced. And now, the topic is all but irrelevant, as there is less media available out there. There aren't many BluRay drives left (I never bought one of those, could not think of a use-case). In a way, it was like its own little hobby. Like stamp collecting. Paul
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-02 02:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vq0gcg$g1o3$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81053 |
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 18:53:51 -0500, TJ wrote: > I remember the problems of working with floppies, and the advertised > claims that DVDs would outlast me in storage, so I took to using them > for archival storage - until I found the ones I had burned were > deteriorating just a year later. Depends on the brand. I was sticking to reputable ones, like Sony, Verbatim and TDK. Also I see in my stack I had a few Mitsubishi ones.
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
Back to top | Article view | alt.os.linux
csiph-web