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usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly.

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  usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-11 16:42 +0000
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-02-11 08:56 -0800
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-11 18:50 +0000
      Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-11 22:45 +0000
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-12 01:59 +0000
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-12 08:45 +0000
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-12 05:50 -0500
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-12 16:03 +0000
            Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-02-12 10:20 -0600
              Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Peter Pearson <pkpearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2019-02-12 17:55 +0000
            Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-12 13:56 -0500
              Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-12 19:18 +0000
                Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-12 14:59 -0500
            Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-12 19:15 +0000
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Wes Newell <w.newell@tx.rr.com> - 2019-02-11 20:27 +0000
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-11 15:32 -0500
      Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. faeychild <faeychild@afraid.org> - 2019-02-12 08:32 +1100
      Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-11 22:49 +0000
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-11 21:49 -0500
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-11 22:15 -0500
      Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-12 02:03 +0000
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-11 22:15 -0500
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-12 05:22 +0100
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-11 22:28 +0100
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-11 18:52 -0500
      Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-02-11 21:47 -0600
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-12 04:22 +0000
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-12 21:40 +0100
        Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-11 23:29 -0500
          Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Doug Laidlaw <laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> - 2019-02-13 06:40 +1100
            Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Doug Laidlaw <laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> - 2019-02-14 03:01 +1100
              Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-13 23:24 -0500
    Re: usb3 sticks do not seem to work properly. Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-12 01:50 +0000

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#53768

On 2019-02-11, David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 11:42:33 -0500, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

> While the dd command may (or may not) appear to end before the iso has
> been fully copied, run htop, sort the output by the S (status) column,
> and wait for the kernel processes to stop showing any device waits.
> Until then, it's not fully written, so rebooting or removing the stick
> will have partial results only.

I had the same thing with floppies, but there activity was move obvious

running "sync" a couple of times before ejecting should ensure that
the writes are complete.


-- 
  When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

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#53770

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 21:03:43 -0500, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

> running "sync" a couple of times before ejecting should ensure that
> the writes are complete.

It doesn't. The sync command works with file systems. As dd works with
devices, it has no effect.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

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#53774

On 12/02/2019 04.15, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 21:03:43 -0500, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> 
>> running "sync" a couple of times before ejecting should ensure that
>> the writes are complete.
> 
> It doesn't. The sync command works with file systems. As dd works with
> devices, it has no effect.

That's not exact. There are kernel buffers. As dd has options for direct
write without buffering, the default is use buffer.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#53758

On 11/02/2019 17.42, William Unruh wrote:
> I am trying to install Mageia onto usb sticks, both usb2 and usb3
> sticks. 
> I am installing by doing 
> dd if=Mageia-7-cauldron-x86_64.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> and both usb2 and usb3 take a long time to install. Both start of fast,
> but finally settle down to 10MB/s writing, so the writing takes almost
> an hour. I thought usb3 was supposed to be fast. This is the same on my
> laptop  (which has usb3 ports and MGA6) and the new desktop( Ubuntu 18).

Write speed on USB sticks is simply slow, no matter if they are USB 2 or
3. When you buy sticks you have to look at the sustained write speed if
they say it. If it is USB 3 they will boast that number if it is good,
and say nothing if it is bad.

Yes, initially the write seems to be fast because the kernel is caching
the operation in memory. At the end, you may notice that the dd command
exits but the stick LED is still flashing - while the cache is emptied.


Use this command instead:

 if=ISO of=DEV bs=16M oflag=direct status=progress

It usually works better by not slowing the rest of the system, not tying
cache memory that is not going to be used again, and instead using RAM
on the dd itself.


> The big problem is that when I want to check tha tthe writing has
> worked, I do 
> md5sum /dev/sda
> and it takes about 1/2 hour to check the 4GB content of the stick, and
> persistantly, whether I used usb2 or usb4 sticks, the check sum is NOT
> the same as original file.  The sticks all have plenty of room ( they
> are either 16 or 32GB sticks) Furthermore the checksum changes if I run
> md5sum again on the same stick with nothing done to it.

Normally doing this check is pointless - you don't do this every time
you copy a file on hard disk. The check is important when writing to
DVD, because there the write failure rate is large.

Further, the checksum of /dev/sda is not the same as the checksum of the
ISO image, because they have different size. You have to do a file
compare instead and limit the number of bytes. Maybe dd from stick a
number of bytes to a pipe to md5sum.

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

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#53763

William Unruh wrote:
> I am trying to install Mageia onto usb sticks, both usb2 and usb3
> sticks. 
> I am installing by doing 
> dd if=Mageia-7-cauldron-x86_64.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> and both usb2 and usb3 take a long time to install. Both start of fast,
> but finally settle down to 10MB/s writing, so the writing takes almost
> an hour. I thought usb3 was supposed to be fast. This is the same on my
> laptop  (which has usb3 ports and MGA6) and the new desktop( Ubuntu 18). 
> The big problem is that when I want to check tha tthe writing has
> worked, I do 
> md5sum /dev/sda
> and it takes about 1/2 hour to check the 4GB content of the stick, and
> persistantly, whether I used usb2 or usb4 sticks, the check sum is NOT
> the same as original file.  The sticks all have plenty of room ( they
> are either 16 or 32GB sticks) Furthermore the checksum changes if I run
> md5sum again on the same stick with nothing done to it.
> I might suspect a bad usb stick, but this has now been
> true for four different sticks, two usb3 and two usb2. I once got the
> correct checksum, but after 9 tries that was the only one. This is a bit
> absurd. What in the world could be going on here? Am I doing something
> wrong?
> 
> Why is it taking so long to write to usb 3 sticks.
> Why is the checksum persistantly wrong and changing on successive checks
> on the same stick?

This is a SKU issue at your local store.

USB sticks come in "grades".

A USB2 stick in the old days, might have been 8MB/sec
read and 3MB/sec write.

Dual channel USB2 sticks could double the read rate.

Then came USB3. Well, you'd think a USB3 device (to be worthy
of the name), would always manage to do stuff faster than 30MB/sec.

You would be wrong.

Manufacturers have no pride at all. No shame. What makes
money, shaving off $0.05 of product cost is what counts.

The lowest tier of USB3 is 100MB/sec read and 10MB/sec write.
On write, that's basically no better than those Class 10
camera SD cards we were buying years ago.

Sandisk has "Ultra" and "Extreme". There is nothing "Ultra"
about an Ultra device. The Extreme does a better job of living
up to its name.

SanDisk 64GB Extreme Go USB 3.1 Flash Drive     $21
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K6264432

    Read Speed    up to 200MB/s
    Write Speed   up to 150MB/s

SanDisk 256GB Extreme Pro USB 3.1 Flash Drive   $80
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K7FA6061

    Read Speed    up to 420MB/s
    Write Speed   up to 380MB/s

Note - nomenclature of USB is intended to be deceptive.

    USB3          500MB/sec
    USB3.1 Rev1   500MB/sec
    USB3.1 Rev2  1000MB/sec

When an advert says "USB 3.1" they mean "Rev1" and the company
is saying "HaHa" in the background as we speak.

The sticks have metal barrels. *Don't* buy USB3 sticks
with plastic barrels for the electrical end, as the
plastic barrel allows pins to be snapped off inside
the barrel. There is still at least one company selling
USB flash with plastic barrels.

*******

Years ago, there was even one USB flash stick, a USB2
one, that did writes at 0.8MB/sec. Which is less than
the USB1.1 practical transfer rate of 1.0MB/sec. So this
"a brick short of a full load" idea has been going on for
some time.

    Paul

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#53772

Wow. So, which USB sticks are the best to get then?
-- 
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#53773

On 2019-02-12, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> Wow. So, which USB sticks are the best to get then?

Apparently sd cards with usb3 card readers:-) Not that they cost much
more (except the reader). I guess cameras etc HAVE to have fast write
options, or noone will buy the sd card. 

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#53797

On 12/02/2019 05.22, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2019-02-12, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> Wow. So, which USB sticks are the best to get then?
> 
> Apparently sd cards with usb3 card readers:-) Not that they cost much
> more (except the reader). I guess cameras etc HAVE to have fast write
> options, or noone will buy the sd card. 

Those cards say the write speed in the package. And the prices rise
accordingly.

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

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#53775

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 22:47:23 -0500, Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:

> Wow. So, which USB sticks are the best to get then?

I've had good luck with kingston drives, but with all of the forgeries
in the market, what's sold as being from one manufacturer may or may
not actually be from them.

Not only do the forgers forge the manufacturer name, they sometimes forge
the capacity too.

http://linuxrevolution.blogspot.com/2006/08/fake-usb-drives-sleuthing.html

I wish I could give a statement of "buy this from there", but as far as I
know, it's trial and error with little recourse if you've bought a forged
drive.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

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#53793

On 12/2/19 3:29 pm, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 22:47:23 -0500, Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
> 
>> Wow. So, which USB sticks are the best to get then?
> 
> I've had good luck with kingston drives, but with all of the forgeries
> in the market, what's sold as being from one manufacturer may or may
> not actually be from them.
> 
> Not only do the forgers forge the manufacturer name, they sometimes forge
> the capacity too.
> 
> http://linuxrevolution.blogspot.com/2006/08/fake-usb-drives-sleuthing.html
> 
> I wish I could give a statement of "buy this from there", but as far as I
> know, it's trial and error with little recourse if you've bought a forged
> drive.
> 
> Regards, Dave Hodgins
> 
The brands I see in Oz are SanDisk, Lexar and Toshiba.  I can recall 
only one failure, and it was an unusual one.  I have seen the Kingston 
brand, but not on USB sticks.

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#53801

On 13/2/19 6:40 am, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
> The brands I see in Oz are SanDisk, Lexar and Toshiba.  I can recall 
> only one failure, and it was an unusual one.  I have seen the Kingston 
> brand, but not on USB sticks.

Something just occurred to me.  On an Ubuntu or similar forum, there was 
a suggestion that one of the BIOS settings had to be disabled before 
USB3 would work at all under Linux.  I will try to find it.  Another 
issue was "uehi" vs "oehi" modules, but I have probably spelled them wrong.

My mobo allows USB2 and USB3 to work in sockets for the other one.  That 
may indicate whether it really is the stick.  For USB3 to work in 
VirtualBox, the Extension Pack must be installed.

Doug.

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#53803

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 11:01:49 -0500, Doug Laidlaw <laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> wrote:

> On 13/2/19 6:40 am, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
>> The brands I see in Oz are SanDisk, Lexar and Toshiba.  I can recall
>> only one failure, and it was an unusual one.  I have seen the Kingston
>> brand, but not on USB sticks.
>
> Something just occurred to me.  On an Ubuntu or similar forum, there was
> a suggestion that one of the BIOS settings had to be disabled before
> USB3 would work at all under Linux.  I will try to find it.  Another
> issue was "uehi" vs "oehi" modules, but I have probably spelled them wrong.
>
> My mobo allows USB2 and USB3 to work in sockets for the other one.  That
> may indicate whether it really is the stick.  For USB3 to work in
> VirtualBox, the Extension Pack must be installed.

# journalctl -o cat -b|grep hci|grep USB|grep -v registered|head -n 3
ehci_hcd: USB 2.0 'Enhanced' Host Controller (EHCI) Driver
ohci_hcd: USB 1.1 'Open' Host Controller (OHCI) Driver
xhci_hcd 0000:03:00.0: Host supports USB 3.0  SuperSpeed

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

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#53766

On 2019-02-11, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> I am trying to install Mageia onto usb sticks, both usb2 and usb3
> sticks. 
> I am installing by doing 
> dd if=Mageia-7-cauldron-x86_64.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M status=progress
> and both usb2 and usb3 take a long time to install. Both start of fast,
> but finally settle down to 10MB/s writing, so the writing takes almost
> an hour. I thought usb3 was supposed to be fast. This is the same on my
> laptop  (which has usb3 ports and MGA6) and the new desktop( Ubuntu 18). 
> The big problem is that when I want to check tha tthe writing has
> worked, I do 
> md5sum /dev/sda
> and it takes about 1/2 hour to check the 4GB content of the stick, and
> persistantly, whether I used usb2 or usb4 sticks, the check sum is NOT
> the same as original file.

It never will be. the stick has a different size to the file. there
may also be un-overwritten data at the end persisting from a previous
use.

> are either 16 or 32GB sticks) Furthermore the checksum changes if I run
> md5sum again on the same stick with nothing done to it.

turn off automount.

> Why is it taking so long to write to usb 3 sticks.

slow flash.

> Why is the checksum persistantly wrong and changing on successive checks
> on the same stick?

size, automount




-- 
  When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

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