Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs

From	Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR>
Newsgroups	alt.os.linux, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs
Date	2018-11-30 11:32 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ptr3j3$jtk$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<psntul$etc$1@news.mixmin.net> <g5a7ouFjvp8U1@mid.individual.net> <rv65cf-i69.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <87ftvzgbsi.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <3ct8cf-dgg.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 18/11/18 21:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 17/11/2018 12.53, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>> On 17/11/2018 11.10, J.O. Aho wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/18 3:21 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-420-bisect&num=1>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And it will run slower in the future as more and more serious security
>>>> vulnerabilities are found in intel hardware which then has to be fixed
>>>> in software.
>>>>
>>>> The only CPU which seems to have been safe to use has been RISC-V, just
>>>> hope we will see desktop grade CPU's soon.
>>
>> Lots of other older CPUs are also immune to this attack class, they’re
>> just very slow by modern standards.
>>
>>> Well, possibly the smaller the instruction set, the less danger of
>>> fucking up.
>>
>> It’s not really anything to do with the size of the instruction set. The
>> microarchitectural attacks are essentially about how the instruction set
>> is implemented efficiently (mostly in time terms although the AVX warmup
>> sidechannel depends on a power usage optimization).
> 
> I don't mean exactly that the size is involved, but that fewer
> instructions and less complex instructions probably produce less
> complexity of the chip itself and fewer chances of errors. The
> complexity goes to the kernel and applications instead, 

I was having the same idea but with no clue of the reason of 
this ... could you delve a bit deeper in this aspect (= why 
hw simplification would necessarily imply sw complication ?) ?
I mean, I'm quite convinced that LONGER sw (in binary 
outline) is a result of RISC instead of CISC, but I'm unsure 
about the greater complexity (as I don't have a suitable 
definition of complexity, or at least not a quantitative one)

Another thing complicates my view (and this even from an HW 
point of view) : some times simplified layers imply more 
layers to get an high level task out of the "iron".

So I'm wondering whether a reduced set of instructions is 
just a mean of MOVING complexity elsewhere and distribute it 
differently (where with "elsewhere" I don't necessarily mean 
from HW -> to SW, but maybe also from the CPU to other 
features of the overall architecture).

P.S. I'm not questioning about the proved less vulnerable 
risc architecture, just trying to understand why

> but these can be
> corrected, whereas the cpu itself can't (some parts can, firmware updates).
> 
> Just an educated guess :-)
> 
> 

-- 
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)

Thread

Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Nomen Nescio <noreply@mixnym.net> - 2018-11-16 20:21 -0600
  Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-11-17 11:10 +0100
    Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-11-17 11:26 +0100
      Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-17 11:53 +0000
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-11-18 21:06 +0100
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-18 15:46 -0500
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-11-24 09:07 -0500
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-11-18 22:27 +0100
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-19 08:27 +0000
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-19 18:33 +0000
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-11-19 21:02 +0100
              Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-20 04:46 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-11-20 06:59 +0100
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-11-19 21:58 +0000
              Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-19 17:27 -0500
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-19 17:37 -0500
              Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-20 10:10 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2018-11-20 15:51 -0500
              Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-11-20 21:31 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-11-20 23:14 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-21 06:50 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-11-21 04:24 -0500
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-21 10:56 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-11-21 12:22 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-21 13:24 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-21 22:08 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-21 23:53 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-24 11:46 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-11-24 13:53 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-24 18:39 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2018-11-24 15:47 -0500
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-25 07:51 +0000
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2018-11-25 16:08 -0500
                Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-11-24 15:24 +0000
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2018-11-30 11:32 +0100
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-01 05:13 +0000
    Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> - 2018-11-18 06:23 +0100
      Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2018-11-19 19:06 +0000
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Anonymous <anonymous@hoi-polloi.org> - 2018-11-19 21:44 +0100
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2018-11-20 10:19 +0100
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2018-11-19 18:44 -0500
          Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2018-11-19 19:00 -0500
            Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-11-26 20:40 -0800
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2018-11-20 10:09 +0100
    Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs fr314159@gmail.com - 2018-11-28 07:26 -0800
      Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-11-29 19:45 +0000
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-11-29 20:21 +0000
        Re: Linux 4.20 is Running Slower Than 4.19 On Intel CPUs "F. Russell" <fr@random.info> - 2018-11-29 20:26 +0000

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