Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.os.linux.mint > #45568 > unrolled thread

Password incorrect after name change Home folder

Back to article view | Back to alt.os.linux.mint

Contents

  Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 14:43 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 12:59 +0000
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:10 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 11:04 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:45 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:16 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-23 09:06 -0400
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-21 15:42 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 02:05 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-10-21 09:24 -0400
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:16 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-22 07:51 +0000
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:47 +0100
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 16:20 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:12 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:42 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-21 18:14 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-21 18:22 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 22:55 +0200
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:43 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 09:50 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:21 +0200
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 22:41 -0400
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:31 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-24 17:07 +0200
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 13:33 +0200
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-21 13:08 -0400
      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-21 23:08 +0200
        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-22 12:32 +0100
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-22 08:46 -0400
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 07:13 +0000
          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:47 +0200
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 10:49 +0000
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 15:53 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-24 14:47 +0000
                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:48 +0200
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 23:03 -0400
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 14:06 +0200
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 12:52 +0000
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:40 +0200
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-25 14:31 +0100
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:46 +0200
                            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-25 17:39 +0000
                              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-26 17:02 +0100
                                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-10-26 17:44 +0100
                                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:07 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-25 09:42 -0400
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:22 +0200
                            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-28 14:22 +0100
                              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:35 +0100
                                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder lisa <not.in.use@home.invalid> - 2025-10-30 09:30 +0100
                                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-30 15:28 +0100
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-10-25 13:27 +0000
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-25 17:04 +0200
                    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:51 +0000
                      Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-27 21:34 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-27 18:57 -0400
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:40 +0100
                        Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Monsieur <Monsieur@notreal.invalid> - 2025-10-28 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT] "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-29 19:48 +0100
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 14:54 +0100
              Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 17:33 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-10-24 17:52 +0100
                  Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:55 +0200
                Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2025-10-26 22:04 +0000
            Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:08 -0400
    Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 00:20 +0000

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#45624

On 25/10/2025 at 13:06, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:03:29 -0400, Paul wrote:
> 
>> If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without
>> a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's
>> not helping.
> 
> I understand, but as I said: it's just early days. We have until Oct
> 2026 to prepare. Apparently, there's such a thing as Linux Repair Café
> with volunteers who do exactly what we want to do. We can cooperate with
> them or simply organise info sessions (my supervisor does this already)
> to introduce Linux Mint as a W10 (or older) alternative and then refer
> our people to them. I could even volunteer in such a café and extend my
> knowledge (or lack of) about Linux.
>   
>> For example, you help them in some non-standard way,
>> they seek help from someone else, and that someone else
>> asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt
>> the help being received at both sites.
> 
> We already have that with people who come by with their smartphone.
> Their son/daughter/friend/neighbour/... has given them (wrong) advice
> and we solve it.
>   
>> Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was removed".
>> Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best intentions.
>> Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who has had
>> too much caffeine" ? I don't know./
>>
>> If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed
>> Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,
>> I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation
>> available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,
>> because key packages were removed.
>>
>> In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from
>> thousands of people who could help you with your problem,
>> to two guys in a Github Issues thread.
>>
>> I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the
>> street, rather than off-roading.
> 
> I understand, but W10's support will end and their hardware will not
> support W11. Buying new hardware isn't an option for most people and
> sticking with W10 isn't an option either, not if these people will use
> their device for netbanking. In general, Belgian banks consider their
> system safe, there's a card reader and an app called Itsme which are
> used as a form of 2FA, but in case of a breach a bank could say: 'Well,
> you were using an OS that isn't supported anymore. You're responsible,
> not us.'
> 
> How can you stay between the lines when W10 as well as W11 isn't an
> option? In case of a problem, people would still come to us or a Café. A
> lot of these people are 'digibeet' (computer illiterate); they're not
> the type to ask help in a Github thread.
>   
>> If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account
>> enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to
>> select, where everything is designed with that in mind.
>> For example, one distro (Knoppix?),
> 8< snip >8
> 
> I used Knoppix a long time ago, but ATM Linux Mint is one of the most
> popular (= more people that can help) and the problem could be solved by
> making a second user with no root account. 

Actually what you want is a root account, a primary account (user's 
name) with no sudo access but autologin, and a second (secret?) account 
with sudo access and no autologin.
Note that if you make an account with no sudo access, that account will 
not be able to use tools like apt to upgrade the system. This may (or 
may not) be a problem down the line.
See visudo (run as root) and /etc/sudoers, /etc/sudoers.d/


I have a cousin in IT who
> installed Windows at his parents this way. Their account didn't have
> admin rights. The idea is that our organisation (or a Linux Repair Café)
> would offer assistance after installation.
>   
>> Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they
>> were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to
>> explain the philosophy and work within the constraints
>> that provides.
>>
>> Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a
>>           situation worse than it already is. I've watched one
>>           person who does IT as a small operation of his own for
>>           money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts
>>           the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke
>>           so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers
>>           do not have the time for "remoting into customer X
>>           computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how
>>           he works. He wrote his own backup software.
>>
>>           Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the distro".
>>           Just some friendly advice.
> 
> As I said, it's still early days. The public we want to reach is people
> with older hardware, not able to afford W10 and who only use their
> PC/laptop for browsing, mail, text, spreadsheet, PDF, music, movies, ...
> 
> We have until Oct 2026 to think this over. It's not even decided if
> we're actually going to do this. Right now, we're just experimenting and
> brain storming.
>   
>>           This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.
>>
>>           https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
> 
> That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,
> let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for
> instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?
> 



-- 
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT BURY THE NEW KID
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 9F03

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45627

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 14:31:36 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:

> Actually what you want is a root account, a primary account (user's 
> name) with no sudo access but autologin, and a second (secret?) account 
> with sudo access and no autologin.

YES! (((-:

> Note that if you make an account with no sudo access, that account will 
> not be able to use tools like apt to upgrade the system. This may (or 
> may not) be a problem down the line.

That would be a problem; I'd want them to have the latest (security)
updates. If I would set up unattended-upgrades (did that for my RPi),
would that solve the problem?

> See visudo (run as root) and /etc/sudoers, /etc/sudoers.d/

Can you elaborate? (Or give me a link?)

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45630

At Sat, 25 Oct 2025 16:46:19 +0200, "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 14:31:36 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> 
> > Actually what you want is a root account, a primary account (user's 
> > name) with no sudo access but autologin, and a second (secret?) account 
> > with sudo access and no autologin.
> 
> YES! (((-:
> 
> > Note that if you make an account with no sudo access, that account will 
> > not be able to use tools like apt to upgrade the system. This may (or 
> > may not) be a problem down the line.
> 
> That would be a problem; I'd want them to have the latest (security)
> updates. If I would set up unattended-upgrades (did that for my RPi),
> would that solve the problem?
> 
> > See visudo (run as root) and /etc/sudoers, /etc/sudoers.d/
> 
> Can you elaborate? (Or give me a link?)

Sorry to jump in again, but with Linux Mint, I think all you need
is to add the user to the sudo group -- the sudoers config is already
set up to give those in the sudo group root access via sudo.

$ sudo usermod -a -G sudo username

Where "username" is the name of the user to give access to.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
   OS: Linux 6.17.5 D: Mint 22.2 DE: Xfce 4.18 
   NVIDIA: 580.95.05 Mem: 258G
   "My cat likes to play Hide-And-Go-Poop."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45631

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 17:39:40 +0000, vallor wrote:

> Sorry to jump in again, but with Linux Mint, I think all you need
> is to add the user to the sudo group -- the sudoers config is already
> set up to give those in the sudo group root access via sudo.
> 
> $ sudo usermod -a -G sudo username
> 
> Where "username" is the name of the user to give access to.

nm I'm taking notes.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45632

On Sun, 26 Oct 2025 17:02:43 +0100
"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 17:39:40 +0000, vallor wrote:
> 
> > Sorry to jump in again, but with Linux Mint, I think all you need
> > is to add the user to the sudo group -- the sudoers config is already
> > set up to give those in the sudo group root access via sudo.
> > 
> > $ sudo usermod -a -G sudo username
> > 
> > Where "username" is the name of the user to give access to.  
> 
> nm I'm taking notes.
> 
You don't need terminal, you have GUI with name "User and Groups" in
your menu. There you can add users, you can add groups and you can add
groups to user. No need for terminal when you have GUI :-))



Linux Mint 22.2 kernel version 6.14.0-33-generic Cinnamon 6.4.8 AMD
Ryzen 7 5700G, Radeon RX9060XT, 32GB of DRAM.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45654

On Sun, 26 Oct 2025 17:44:44 +0100, yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>>
wrote:

> You don't need terminal, you have GUI with name "User and Groups" in
> your menu. There you can add users, you can add groups and you can add
> groups to user. No need for terminal when you have GUI :-))

I prefer GUI as well, but it's always interesting to learn new command
lines.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45625

On Sat, 10/25/2025 8:06 AM, s|b wrote:

> 
> That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,
> let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for
> instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?
> 

I guess I'm not doing a good job on the analogies.

As a helper, as an initial skill, you should read up
on what the "standard procedure is".

Let's use as an example, someone drops by your help center.
They say

   "I have a new printer. How do you install those, anyway ?"

And you, having read the official page for it, follow the
procedure, make sure CUPS is installed, and then use some
dialog pointed at port 631 and start the printer install.

Now, maybe the printer is a tough one, and requires a
few minutes search on Google to determine "status on
July 2025 printer that just arrived". Or, it's an existing
printer (like the one I bought, an end of line), and
the driver is mature. The customer leaves happy.

Six months pass. Something happens to the printer. You're
not available. They go to the Linux Cafe for help. The helper
there asks "how did he install it?". The customer replies
"he used the standard procedure". The helper then has a context
and the customer does their best to fill in the anecdotal bits.

That's better than the customer saying, "Oh, s|b hacked it in
with some custom assembler code, but I don't have the code
he used." That's going to considerably complicate the situation.
Who knows what the assembler code damaged while it worked?

There is no end to the complexity a potential situation could raise.
There would be questions here nobody could answer. They could
likely answer them when sitting in front of the machine
and looking around, as sometimes all it takes is one hint
from a look around, to figure it out. The knowledge tree
starts with a solid knowledge of the fundamentals underneath.
It's the same way we learn maths.

Try using the OS with just sudo. The machines are most likely
to be single user, there won't be situations where john peeps
at mary's files using sudo.

sudo can be restricted to only allowing "mount" and "umount"
as privileged activities. That was more likely to be the
intended usage of sudo in UNIX days. The UNIX box didn't come
with sudo enabled. You installed it and edited the sudoers file
with a "blessed" editor. And those are the privileges I
was given back in the day, all I was allowed was "mount" and "umount".
Sudo activites were logged, and sent to the administrator.
(If you were abusing it, someone might notice.)

If you did become root, by adding the password, as root you
could edit the sudoers file and restrict the activities of others.

As long as the disk isn't encrypted, I'm willing to bet you can
always exploit it. Using things like chroot, from a boot key.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45629

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 09:42:25 -0400, Paul wrote:

> On Sat, 10/25/2025 8:06 AM, s|b wrote:
> 
> > That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,
> > let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for
> > instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?

> I guess I'm not doing a good job on the analogies.

Could be the language barrier. (-;
 
> As a helper, as an initial skill, you should read up
> on what the "standard procedure is".
> 
> Let's use as an example, someone drops by your help center.
> They say
> 
>    "I have a new printer. How do you install those, anyway ?"

I'm interrupting, but (most) people will say "I have a new printer. Can
YOU install his?"
 
> And you, having read the official page for it, follow the
> procedure, make sure CUPS is installed, and then use some
> dialog pointed at port 631 and start the printer install.
> 
> Now, maybe the printer is a tough one, and requires a
> few minutes search on Google to determine "status on
> July 2025 printer that just arrived". Or, it's an existing
> printer (like the one I bought, an end of line), and
> the driver is mature. The customer leaves happy.
> 
> Six months pass. Something happens to the printer. You're
> not available. They go to the Linux Cafe for help. The helper
> there asks "how did he install it?". The customer replies
> "he used the standard procedure". The helper then has a context
> and the customer does their best to fill in the anecdotal bits.
> 
> That's better than the customer saying, "Oh, s|b hacked it in
> with some custom assembler code, but I don't have the code
> he used." That's going to considerably complicate the situation.
> Who knows what the assembler code damaged while it worked?

This is why it's probably a good idea to cooperate with a Linux Repair
Café. I just want to add that our target group doesn't even have a
printer in most cases. The library (not our organisation) offers
printing documents as a service. (We would have to set up LibreOffice to
save documents that are compatible with Office365, but that is easily
done.)

> There is no end to the complexity a potential situation could raise.
> There would be questions here nobody could answer. They could
> likely answer them when sitting in front of the machine
> and looking around, as sometimes all it takes is one hint
> from a look around, to figure it out. The knowledge tree
> starts with a solid knowledge of the fundamentals underneath.
> It's the same way we learn maths.

That's why we have the KIS principle: Keep It Simple.
 
> Try using the OS with just sudo. The machines are most likely
> to be single user, there won't be situations where john peeps
> at mary's files using sudo.
>
> sudo can be restricted to only allowing "mount" and "umount"
> as privileged activities. That was more likely to be the
> intended usage of sudo in UNIX days. The UNIX box didn't come
> with sudo enabled. You installed it and edited the sudoers file
> with a "blessed" editor. And those are the privileges I
> was given back in the day, all I was allowed was "mount" and "umount".
> Sudo activites were logged, and sent to the administrator.
> (If you were abusing it, someone might notice.)

I made a note and will look into this. Or maybe you have a URL I can
take a look at?
 
> If you did become root, by adding the password, as root you
> could edit the sudoers file and restrict the activities of others.
> 
> As long as the disk isn't encrypted, I'm willing to bet you can
> always exploit it. Using things like chroot, from a boot key.

We wouldn't encrypt the drive. The option comes up during installation,
but I already said to my supervisor that it wouldn't be a good idea for
the people we want to reach. Easier to retrieve data in case of a
problem was the main idea. Keep in mind everybody would still have an
external hdd with backup data of their Windows laptop/PC.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45685

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 17:22:40 +0200, "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

 >> Let's use as an example, someone drops by your help center.
>> They say
>> 
>>    "I have a new printer. How do you install those, anyway ?"
>
>I'm interrupting, but (most) people will say "I have a new printer. Can
>YOU install his?"

yeah, that's how it works. You also have to remove the old printer
settings because the OS don't know the old printer doesn't excists
anymore ( with a windows OS ). Print something should be as easy as
"click the print button" and it should function.

Related to this help problem :
I ( the person to help ) bought a new printer and it says plug and
play, but nothing happens when I want to print something.
It's not KIS, it's KISS ( keep it stupid simple ).

Yeah, sometimes you even have to explain you have to turn the printer
on to let it print. Installing software for someone? I ones had a user
who wanted to use GIMP. When I said it had a learning curve for over a
year and a tablet would be handy, he thought I was joking.

People coming to your helpdesk don't want to learn anything; they want
something to work without problems.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45728

On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 14:22:16 +0100, lisa wrote:

8< selective snip >8
> People coming to your helpdesk don't want to learn anything; they want
> something to work without problems.

That's true for most of the people coming to our 'Digipunt'. In case of
the Itsme app (for government websites, but can also be used for
netbanking) we tale it upon ourselves to educate people about phishing
and the fact that their bank or Itsme won't ever send them e-mails to
ask about (2FA) codes or updating the app.

If we decide to go ahead and install Linux Mint on their old hardware
lessons would be organised to get them educated with some basic
knowledge.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45751

On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 19:35:00 +0100, "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

 In case of
>the Itsme app (for government websites, but can also be used for
>netbanking) we tale it upon ourselves to educate people about phishing
>and the fact that their bank or Itsme won't ever send them e-mails to
>ask about (2FA) codes or updating the app.

now you mention that. In the past years I have collected a handfull
pishing mails and I think I should show the people coming to the
repair shop how pishing mails could look like.

>If we decide to go ahead and install Linux Mint on their old hardware
>lessons would be organised to get them educated with some basic
>knowledge.

ask them to come back in two years and have a look what's left from
your basic instructions ( well, maybe I'm too pessimistic ).

--
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of it's existence." Nikola Tesla

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45760

On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 09:30:07 +0100, lisa wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 19:35:00 +0100, "s|b" wrote:

> >In case of
> >the Itsme app (for government websites, but can also be used for
> >netbanking) we tale it upon ourselves to educate people about phishing
> >and the fact that their bank or Itsme won't ever send them e-mails to
> >ask about (2FA) codes or updating the app.

> now you mention that. In the past years I have collected a handfull
> pishing mails and I think I should show the people coming to the
> repair shop how pishing mails could look like.

This is something my supervisor already does. Not so long ago he
organised an infosession about phishing using the mails he collected
over the years.

We also refer to this online test:
<https://safeonweb.be/en/take-phishing-test>

We inform people about these infosessions, but we can't force their
hand.
 
> >If we decide to go ahead and install Linux Mint on their old hardware
> >lessons would be organised to get them educated with some basic
> >knowledge.
 
> ask them to come back in two years and have a look what's left from
> your basic instructions ( well, maybe I'm too pessimistic ).

That's a very good idea! I'd do this after 6 months. In any case, they
can always come in if they have questions.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45623

On 2025-10-24, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 14:47:30 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I've re-read your OP twice now, and it only says that you're doing
>> this for your "boss" (supervisor, whatever).
>
> "I work as a volunteer and help people out with (small) digital
> problems:"
>
> It's right there.

"we help people with small problems" is in not even close to

"the real plan is installing linux and having our own admin login on
someone else's property".


> If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
> nitpicking.

If you think "hey, this is a bad idea due to legal ramifications" is
nothing more than nitpicking ... I'm out.  Good luck, hope it doesn't
bite you in the ass.


-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45628 — Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 13:27:52 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> "we help people with small problems" is in not even close to
> 
> "the real plan is installing linux and having our own admin login on
> someone else's property".

You know nothing, Dan Purgert. Comprehensive reading is obviously a
problem for you. It's a potential side project; nothing has been decided
yet. We're 'playing with the idea'.

> > If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
> > nitpicking.
 
> If you think "hey, this is a bad idea due to legal ramifications" is
> nothing more than nitpicking ... 

Let me guess: you're an American? I'm Fleming (Belgian) and in our
country we don't have lawyers that sue everybody who farts for a lot
money. It doesn't work like that over here. So, "legal ramifications",
yeah... no.

>I'm out.

You were never in.

>  Good luck, hope it doesn't  bite you in the ass.

Tnx, it won't. Linux Repair Café is already doing what we have in mind
and I don't think they've been sued.  I'll ask our lawyer to contact
their lawyer to hear what our legal options are (not).

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45634

On 2025-10-24, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 14:47:30 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I've re-read your OP twice now, and it only says that you're doing
>> this for your "boss" (supervisor, whatever).
>
> "I work as a volunteer and help people out with (small) digital
> problems:"
>
> It's right there.

Fair enough, but it has not been clear to either myself or s|b. I was
wondering what the exact set up was and should have enquired with hind
sight.

In my experience telling people that English is not your first/native
language goes a long way in the understanding of the communication. 

>  
>> What you *DIDN'T* say was that your plan was to do this on property
>> owned by *OTHER PEOPLE* unaffiliated with your business.  It's not your
>> (company's) machine, don't do that.
>
> We DON'T have a BUSINESS; we're VOLUNTEERS (as said in the OP). ATM we
> get funding from the EU, but that is not about installing Linux Mint.
> That's about helping people with (small) digital problems.
>
> My "boss", supervisor is indeed a better word, but English isn't my
> native language, so I said 'boss' -> " ", he's got a broader
> perspective. Supervising us is not the only thing he does. He sees an
> opportunity in installing a safe alternative for W10 for people who
> can't afford new hardware (and W11). That's a noble thing. 

Agreed.

> We would be
> doing these people a favour. Of course, we (well, especially him) need
> to learn a lot more before we decide to go further with this. 

I would suggest that you needs to take the transmission to Mint (linux) off
into a separate place. Get/buy a spare and use it as a protype. Get it
running with the setup you envisage. Document your progress. Keep the
existing set up in place and running.

Once the protoype is working bring it into the fold, test run it in the real
world and check out for any glitches. How do the customers like it, what are
the issues for them.

> EU users
> can subscribe to ESU for W10, so it will be supported unit Oct 16 2026.
> So we've got time to learn and experiment (and break things).
>
> If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
> nitpicking.
>
I read through this post thinking, now we have a better understanding of the
situation. Then the last sentence brought be up short. Somethings it is
better to stop rather than carry on.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45655

On 26 Oct 2025 22:51:40 GMT, Gordon wrote:

> On 2025-10-24, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > We would be
> > doing these people a favour. Of course, we (well, especially him) need
> > to learn a lot more before we decide to go further with this. 
 
> I would suggest that you needs to take the transmission to Mint (linux) off
> into a separate place. Get/buy a spare and use it as a protype. Get it
> running with the setup you envisage. Document your progress. Keep the
> existing set up in place and running.

The municipality is also involved and through them I've got a laptop I
can use. Its battery is defect and so is the eID card reader, but that's
alright. My supervisor had an old laptop laying around and he's going to
use that one.

I've already been trying out every setting and scribbling down notes.
The main problem for me is that it's in Dutch (I always choose English
for Windows and Linux) and the translation was clearly done by some
language purifying Dutchman. I mean, he literally translated 'chatroom'
into a weird "Dutch" word 'kletskamer'. I'm pretty sure it's a made up
word; it's not even in our van Dale dictionary.
 
> Once the protoype is working bring it into the fold, test run it in the real
> world and check out for any glitches. How do the customers like it, what are
> the issues for them.

That's good advice. As I've said: early days, but we can use the
guidance.

My supervisor said something about replacing Windows with Linux on the
laptops of his coworkers. So in a sense they could be alpha testers.
'could' because nothing has been decided yet. We could also use someone
who is connected to a Linux Repair Café.
 
> > If you have anything valuable to add, please do, but don't start
> > nitpicking.

> I read through this post thinking, now we have a better understanding of the
> situation. Then the last sentence brought be up short. Somethings it is
> better to stop rather than carry on.

I felt (feel) I didn't (don't) have the need for negative reactions. I
certainly have no need for legal advice where it isn't needed. It's
preposterous to state this could bite us in the arse, in a legal way.

The idea of using (old) hardware and install a Linux OS is already been
done by the Linux Repair Café. And as I've said: it doesn't work like
that in Belgium. People here are responsible for their own actions. If
they decide we can install Linux on their hardware, they are still
responsible. We will of course strongly advise to backup their Windows
data on an external hdd. Linux Repair Café uses this m.o. as well.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45662

On Mon, 10/27/2025 4:34 PM, s|b wrote:

> I've already been trying out every setting and scribbling down notes.
> The main problem for me is that it's in Dutch (I always choose English
> for Windows and Linux) and the translation was clearly done by some
> language purifying Dutchman. I mean, he literally translated 'chatroom'
> into a weird "Dutch" word 'kletskamer'. I'm pretty sure it's a made up
> word; it's not even in our van Dale dictionary.

translate.google.com detects the word 'kletskamer' as
belonging to "Afrikaans".

Then when you do an English to Afrikaans translation
and enter 'chat room' it outputs "kletskamer".

So yes, something is weird there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans

   "Afrikaans... evolved from the Dutch vernacular[7][8] of South Holland (Hollandic dialect)"

One of the browsers even has a translate button near the top bar.
I didn't even know it was there, but it did a great job on
one page I was looking at but having trouble with. That may also
be powered by Google. That button translates the entire page for you,
but it is lazy evaluation so when you scroll down, the translation
for the fresh area takes a second or two.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45729 — Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 18:57:20 -0400, Paul wrote:

> translate.google.com detects the word 'kletskamer' as
> belonging to "Afrikaans".
> 
> Then when you do an English to Afrikaans translation
> and enter 'chat room' it outputs "kletskamer".
> 
> So yes, something is weird there.

In Belgium, we just say 'chatroom', but some Dutchmen have the urge to
keep their language 'pure'. I guess this is the case.
 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
> 
>    "Afrikaans... evolved from the Dutch vernacular[7][8] of South Holland (Hollandic dialect)"

Afrikaans is somewhat related to Dutch. I've been told our West Flanders
dialect resembles it the most.
 
> One of the browsers even has a translate button near the top bar.
> I didn't even know it was there, but it did a great job on
> one page I was looking at but having trouble with. That may also
> be powered by Google. That button translates the entire page for you,
> but it is lazy evaluation so when you scroll down, the translation
> for the fresh area takes a second or two.

It's one of the 'features' I immediately turn off after installing Fx.
I've got the same problem with YouTube. My OS is in English UK, but
country is set to Belgium (Dutch), so every now and then I get an AI
translation that I don't want.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45689

s|b wrote:
> On 26 Oct 2025 22:51:40 GMT, Gordon wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-10-24, s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> We would be
>>> doing these people a favour. Of course, we (well, especially him) need
>>> to learn a lot more before we decide to go further with this.
>   
>> I would suggest that you needs to take the transmission to Mint (linux) off
>> into a separate place. Get/buy a spare and use it as a protype. Get it
>> running with the setup you envisage. Document your progress. Keep the
>> existing set up in place and running.
> 
> The municipality is also involved and through them I've got a laptop I
> can use. Its battery is defect and so is the eID card reader, but that's
> alright. My supervisor had an old laptop laying around and he's going to
> use that one.
> 
> I've already been trying out every setting and scribbling down notes.
> The main problem for me is that it's in Dutch (I always choose English
> for Windows and Linux) and the translation was clearly done by some
> language purifying Dutchman. I mean, he literally translated 'chatroom'
> into a weird "Dutch" word 'kletskamer'. I'm pretty sure it's a made up
> word; it's not even in our van Dale dictionary.

Not all Dutch/Flemish words are in the Van Dale (which, by the way, has 
lost all its authority - the age of dictionaries is officially over).

Btw, our French-speaking compatriots invent funny words too. In another 
group I saw the word niouseur (meaning newsreader > newser > niouseur). 
Nothing serious about that one either. :-)

Still, kletskamer is a funny word, I think I'm going to start using it 
from now on. :-)

Good luck with the project btw.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45730 — Re: Password incorrect after name change Home folder [OT]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 15:05:55 +0100, Monsieur wrote:

> Not all Dutch/Flemish words are in the Van Dale (which, by the way, has 
> lost all its authority - the age of dictionaries is officially over).

Well, my generation love a bit of van Dale every now and then. (-; And I
used the online version. There's also the Groene Boekje, but that hasn't
been published on paper for years. Apparently, it was replaced by
woordenlijst.org.

There was nothing there either:
<https://woordenlijst.org/zoeken/?q=kletskamer>

So the translator used a made up word. Maybe I'll report this as a bug.
<g>
 
> Btw, our French-speaking compatriots invent funny words too. In another 
> group I saw the word niouseur (meaning newsreader > newser > niouseur). 
> Nothing serious about that one either. :-)

The French have always been language purists. I mean, 'ordinateur'
(computer, PC), what the hell is that all about?
 
> Still, kletskamer is a funny word, I think I'm going to start using it 
> from now on. :-)

If you're Flemish, then you know we also have another meaning of the
verb 'kletsen' as in 'een klets op billen geven'. (-;
 
> Good luck with the project btw.

Tnx, early days.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.os.linux.mint

csiph-web