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What color was “Apple Beige”?

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  What color was “Apple Beige”? Marco Scholz <tool@disroot.org> - 2021-01-30 11:28 +0000
    Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-30 11:59 -0500
      Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Marco Scholz <tool@disroot.org> - 2021-01-30 18:08 +0000
        Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-31 08:10 +0000
          Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-31 10:06 +0000
            Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-31 11:09 +0000
              Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-31 16:01 +0000
                Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-31 19:31 +0000
                  Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-31 12:30 -0800
                    Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-02-01 00:40 +0000
                      Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-02-01 11:45 -0700
                      Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-02-01 21:26 +0000
            Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-31 07:09 -0800
            Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-31 18:26 +0000
              Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-31 18:51 +0000
            Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-31 18:57 -0400
              Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-31 21:14 -0500
                Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-02-01 01:48 -0400
              Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-02-01 11:45 -0700
      Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-30 17:45 -0800
        Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-30 23:25 -0500
          Re: What color was “Apple Beige”? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-31 07:48 -0500
    Re: What color was ???Apple Beige???? dave@661.org (David Griffith) - 2021-02-09 01:59 +0000

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#216721 — What color was “Apple Beige”?

https://bzotto.medium.com/what-color-was-apple-beige-acd14bca0c1a


-- 
D985D9B7F64A18003122D7E51C3EEBEA41E77EEE                   10011 10011 ▞

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#216729

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Marco Scholz
<tool@disroot.org> wrote:

>https://bzotto.medium.com/what-color-was-apple-beige-acd14bca0c1a

Interesting.  Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

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#216732

On 2021-01-30, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
[..]
> the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
> then stated what the match turned out to be.

Exactly.


-- 
D985D9B7F64A18003122D7E51C3EEBEA41E77EEE                   10011 10011 ▞

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#216746

On 2021-01-30, Marco Scholz <tool@disroot.org> wrote:
> On 2021-01-30, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> [..]
>> the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
>> then stated what the match turned out to be.
>
> Exactly.
>
>
>
 
 I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
 with fruit names.

 I also remember a story of someone in the UK that ordered Apple clones
 from Taiwan (There was, I think, a legal thing that such clones could
 be made in Taiwan, actually Mainland China, without legal problems)
 so one of the UK people flew to Taiwan to make sure the specs were
 right. He was asked what colour the machine was to be made in, and said
 'beige', so the Taiwanese person went to his books, took down one
 volume about 6'' thick, and said, "Which Shade"



Hey, thats almost 40 years ago.


-- 
greymausg@mail.com

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#216747

On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>  I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
>  with fruit names.

	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
than the original.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#216748

In article <20210131100651.8f90a72ddec649b249a7e070@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

>	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,

ITT 2020, maybe?

I forgot the model number, but at least remembered it was an ITT :)
-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#216754

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 11:09:15 +0000 (GMT)
mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) wrote:

> In article <20210131100651.8f90a72ddec649b249a7e070@eircom.net>,
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> 
> >	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,
> 
> ITT 2020, maybe?

	ARGH you are of course quite correct.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#216758

In article <20210131160133.16df1a348a7522a33e45c217@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 11:09:15 +0000 (GMT)
>mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) wrote:
>
>> In article <20210131100651.8f90a72ddec649b249a7e070@eircom.net>,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> 
>> >	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,
>> 
>> ITT 2020, maybe?
>
>	ARGH you are of course quite correct.

The ITT stuck in my mind because at the time, it struck me as odd 
that they went and made a computer, in my head, it was all tellies 
and tape recorders! :)

ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#216760

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 12:50:04 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:

> ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
than a telephone.

John Savard

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#216768

On 2021-01-31, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 12:50:04 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>
>> ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.
>
> That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
> where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
> being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
> than a telephone.

'Twas ever thus.  Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
to be reserved for the elite.

When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
options.  The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
do with a 2500 set.  And that's exactly what happened when we got
the hardware.  It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
a lot more than they did.

Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
to the executives who barely used them.  We techies got the
medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
though she needed a big screen more than anyone.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216782

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-01-31, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> 
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 12:50:04 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>> 
>>> ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.
>> 
>> That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
>> where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
>> being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
>> than a telephone.
> 
> 'Twas ever thus.  Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
> to be reserved for the elite.
> 
> When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
> people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
> options.  The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
> usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
> do with a 2500 set.  And that's exactly what happened when we got
> the hardware.  It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
> that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
> a lot more than they did.
> 
> Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
> desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
> to the executives who barely used them.  We techies got the
> medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
> at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
> though she needed a big screen more than anyone.
> 

Lynn has mentioned execs who got 3270s to run PROFS, and wound up with the
logo from the sign-on screen burned into the monitor.

Reminds me, Has anyone heard from Lynn lately?

-- 
Pete

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#216788

On 1 Feb 2021 00:40:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2021-01-31, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 12:50:04 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>>> ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.
>>
>> That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
>> where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
>> being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
>> than a telephone.
>
>'Twas ever thus.  Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
>to be reserved for the elite.
>
>When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
>people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
>options.  The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
>usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
>do with a 2500 set.  And that's exactly what happened when we got
>the hardware.  It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
>that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
>a lot more than they did.
>
>Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
>desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
>to the executives who barely used them.  We techies got the
>medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
>at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
>though she needed a big screen more than anyone.

There are occasional exceptions to that short-sightedness.

At one PPOE -- a small software house -- the developers got the newest, fastest
PCs.  The accountant also got a new machine.  Just about everyone else got a
developer's hand-me-down; I think the QA department had first dibs.  People got
a machine commensurate with their requirements.  The IT manager had a great way
to squelch complaints.  Their own desktop was one of the least powerful PCs in
the company.  When somebody would gripe about wanting a more powerful machine,
more for status than for need, the manager would point to their own desk and
state that if this lowly PC was enough for their needs, perhaps the employee's
existing machine, which would certainly be newer and faster, was already
sufficient for them. 

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#216751

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 3:30:02 AM UTC-7, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which 
> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper 
> than the original. 

Over here, we had Apple IIs painted black and sold by Bell and Howell for use
by schools.

But there were, for a while, piles of the Apple clones described here. Some
could also run CP/M on a second processor. These machines, on the other
hand, aren't clones, they're rebadged Apples.

John Savard

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#216755

On 2021-01-31, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>>  I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
>>  with fruit names.
>
> 	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
> than the original.

There was an article in _Byte_ about the Agat, a Soviet Apple II clone.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#216756

On 2021-01-31, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-01-31, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>>  I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
>>>  with fruit names.
>>
>> 	The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
>> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
>> than the original.
>
> There was an article in _Byte_ about the Agat, a Soviet Apple II clone.
>

AFAIRemember, Bulgaria had developing the new micros detailed to it, as part of the
Warsaw Pact agreements, whose main outcome was tetris.

-- 
greymausg@mail.com

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#216765

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
> cheaper than the original.

Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
Howell marque.  It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
about 1984.  I would have investigated but my business there was
related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
computers.

One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address.  All kinds of
potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
widgets.  I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
Micrologger.  Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
software and much more complicated device<->computer interface.  Of
course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
far less accessible to the learner.  I acquired it for my grandson who
is in 7th grade.  He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
anything with it.  The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.

ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?


[1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#216769

On 31 Jan 2021 18:57:59 -0400, Mike Spencer
<mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>
>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
>> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
>> cheaper than the original.
>
>Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
>exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
>Howell marque.  It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
>about 1984.  I would have investigated but my business there was
>related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
>stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
>computers.
>
>One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
>was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
>propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address.  All kinds of
>potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
>widgets.  I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
>Micrologger.  Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
>software and much more complicated device<->computer interface.  Of
>course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
>far less accessible to the learner.  I acquired it for my grandson who
>is in 7th grade.  He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
>anything with it.  The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.
>
>ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
>Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
>did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?
>
>
>[1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html

If he's in the 7th grade you might want to look into Raspberry Pi.
While there isn't a built in ADC, it seems to be quite easy to attach
one, and there's high level language support.

<https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-4-channel-adc-breakouts/python-circuitpython>

The ADC is 15 bucks.

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#216771

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On 31 Jan 2021 18:57:59 -0400, Mike Spencer
> <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
>> I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
>> micrologger....for my grandson who is in 7th grade.  He's going to
>> need a lot of help from his dad to do anything with it.  The Apple
>> DAC port was optimally simple.
>
> If he's in the 7th grade you might want to look into Raspberry Pi.
> While there isn't a built in ADC, it seems to be quite easy to attach
> one, and there's high level language support.
> 
> <https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-4-channel-adc-breakouts/python-circuitpython>
> 
> The ADC is 15 bucks.

Thanks for the pointer.  If the 21X proves to complicated, we'll
investigate that.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#216781

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> 
>> The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
>> was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
>> cheaper than the original.
> 
> Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
> exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
> Howell marque.  It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
> about 1984.  I would have investigated but my business there was
> related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
> stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
> computers.
> 
> One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
> was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
> propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address.  All kinds of
> potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
> widgets.  I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
> Micrologger.  Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
> software and much more complicated device<->computer interface.  Of
> course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
> far less accessible to the learner.  I acquired it for my grandson who
> is in 7th grade.  He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
> anything with it.  The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.
> 
> ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
> Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
> did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?
> 
> 
> [1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html
> 

Sounds like something that might be a USB attachment today.

-- 
Pete

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#216741

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 10:00:00 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:

> Interesting. Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to 
> the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and 
> then stated what the match turned out to be.

He did give matches:

PPG 1027-3
Heavy Hammock

and

Pantone
14-0105 TPG
Overcast

John Savard

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