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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #215646 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000 |
| Last post | 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 577 — 38 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 10:42 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 12:50 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 11:16 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-28 18:43 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 19:34 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 23:48 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-29 02:44 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-12-29 13:04 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:08 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-30 20:25 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:08 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 12:58 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:22 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 15:10 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:07 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:15 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:50 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:48 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 17:05 +0000
car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-29 17:43 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:00 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-29 20:05 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:01 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 23:36 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:58 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:45 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:38 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 13:28 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 06:02 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 08:50 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:14 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:43 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:15 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:43 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:56 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:17 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 18:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:46 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:54 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:09 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:46 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Leo <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-01-06 17:38 -0800
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-07 16:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:24 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-02 20:25 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 21:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 03:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:11 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:49 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:52 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:12 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 15:10 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:13 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:21 -0500
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 19:22 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 00:01 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:28 -0500
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 19:55 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 21:11 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 14:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-04 21:22 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 22:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:07 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:26 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:15 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:15 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-09 01:16 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 12:54 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-10 09:36 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:46 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-07 12:02 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 17:18 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 17:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 19:19 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:02 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:22 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:24 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:29 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2021-01-10 06:31 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-10 13:25 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:38 +0000
Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-11 15:46 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:30 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-10 19:45 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:27 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 10:18 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 18:23 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:31 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:15 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 20:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 21:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 22:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:13 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:31 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:31 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:41 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-12 12:06 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:42 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:31 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:58 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:06 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:47 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:37 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:45 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-12 03:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:42 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:36 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:29 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-14 09:47 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:36 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-14 19:53 +0000
Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-14 21:23 +0000
Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 18:58 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:10 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 12:05 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-12 23:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:49 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Alfred Falk <aefalk@telus.net> - 2021-01-15 16:21 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:30 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-14 21:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 11:52 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:13 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-15 19:40 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:49 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:18 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 23:14 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:03 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:29 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-12 21:36 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-13 20:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-13 22:11 +0000
Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-10 18:26 -0400
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-10 20:00 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:35 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:41 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:19 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:21 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:35 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-16 20:00 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-17 11:49 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-17 17:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-17 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-19 11:32 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 21:35 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:17 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:58 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-12 19:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 16:27 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:46 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:48 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 23:00 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 19:46 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:27 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:51 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:45 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 16:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 23:26 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:50 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 15:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:35 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 20:25 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:19 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:40 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:25 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 12:51 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 21:00 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:24 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:56 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:21 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:52 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 22:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:36 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-09 13:31 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:21 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:13 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:28 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-07 12:24 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 12:40 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:38 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2021-01-09 02:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 22:02 -0500
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:41 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-11 15:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:16 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 11:46 -0500
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 14:06 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:43 -0500
Re: dim bulbs, not car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:55 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 15:55 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 02:25 -0400
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:31 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-06 17:04 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-07 21:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 23:05 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-08 20:05 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 16:01 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 17:09 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:34 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-08 20:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:19 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:45 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:42 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:09 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:30 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-03 21:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-03 22:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 20:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:41 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 20:47 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 17:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-01 19:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 00:36 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 03:55 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 23:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:53 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:06 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:38 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:02 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:22 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 02:12 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-31 01:34 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-12-31 11:53 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 10:13 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:20 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:23 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:42 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:26 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:39 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:35 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:35 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 15:23 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:05 -0500
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:26 +0000
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 23:12 -0500
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-01 04:41 +0000
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 15:17 -0600
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:46 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-01 13:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 08:54 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-05 17:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 11:38 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:26 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:38 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-02 23:25 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:12 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:34 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:47 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 14:03 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:16 +0000
Re: polish enigmas, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:32 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-01 19:22 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 11:26 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 09:44 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 16:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-01-02 19:00 +0000
Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:13 +0000
Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:53 -0500
Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-03 19:44 +0000
Re: Enigma and early computers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 16:03 -0600
Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-04 01:06 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:46 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-04 10:07 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
Re: Enigma and early computers Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-04 21:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:36 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-03 11:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:08 +0000
Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-29 21:35 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-29 22:51 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:56 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 13:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:41 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 18:15 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 15:10 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 15:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 16:21 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:13 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:43 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 19:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:54 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-31 12:50 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:50 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-01 21:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:22 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:48 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:59 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:03 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 17:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:25 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 14:54 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:15 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:13 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:27 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:40 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-01 11:05 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:19 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:44 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:06 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 15:13 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:14 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:34 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:07 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:44 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-31 21:35 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 16:08 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:16 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:25 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:27 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:20 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-31 19:03 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:38 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:30 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:06 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:46 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:56 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:37 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 13:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:09 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 18:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:11 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 18:01 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 15:11 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 20:38 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 16:45 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 22:28 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:33 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:26 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 02:50 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:13 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:12 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:27 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 22:57 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-30 18:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 14:19 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-03 21:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 19:57 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 03:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-04 13:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:00 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:35 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:46 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 20:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-01-04 22:15 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 03:10 -0400
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:57 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-05 11:59 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:48 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 10:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 07:23 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 22:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-12-30 16:46 -0400
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:16 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:45 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 14:51 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:14 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 01:54 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:24 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:17 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 15:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 16:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 17:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 19:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 20:05 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 03:20 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 03:25 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:51 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 16:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:46 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:44 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:55 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:23 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-31 21:43 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:04 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:39 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-07 09:18 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-01-01 15:35 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:30 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 14:18 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:26 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 18:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:52 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 06:48 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:25 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:08 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 23:01 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-29 19:28 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 19:37 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 15:00 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:53 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 19:00 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-12-29 09:40 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 15:01 +0200
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:10 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 18:11 +0200
Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:18 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:16 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-28 21:43 +0000
Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-28 22:18 +0000
Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-28 22:30 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 20:24 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:52 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600
Page 19 of 29 — ← Prev page 1 … 17 18 [19] 20 21 … 29 Next page →
| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 11:12 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <jnu3vflk3nf7fcg6ff9eis51crki7gmtu7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215897 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 23:25:30 -0500, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote: >On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 12:35:32 -0600, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> >wrote: > >> Climate changes whether you believe it does or not. > >Climate also changes whether you wave dead chickens and shout mantras >or not. Exactly. -- Jim
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-31 12:34 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <3b6suf96bo11uptjf7r4bto07eio6jvcqj@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215731 |
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:02:25 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> >wrote: > >>On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, J. Clarke wrote: >> >>> I don't think we should spend VAST amounts of money that we don't have >>> just because somebody thinks it might "do good". >> >>Oh, but we already are thanks to all those climate-zealots like greta and >>rest of the zombies. Not only that ... western dietary guidelines, all >>this nondemic nonsense and such are surely coming with a BIG pricetag! > >You know, that is something that strikes me as weird. Don't get me >wrong, I like Greta for standing up for what she believes in and >admire her ability to get people to listen to her. But in what >universe does a 15 year old know enough about anything other than the >life of a 15 year old for their opinion to be worth listening to when >deciding national environmental policy? When I was 15 I knew substationaly more about WW2 than my teachers did in high school. I read books not assigned, but they had lived it. Maybe they just didn't want to talk about it. -- Jim
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | maus <maus@dmaus.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-31 18:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <slrnrus75j.ku0.maus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #215787 |
On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke ><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:02:25 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> >>wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, J. Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> I don't think we should spend VAST amounts of money that we don't have >>>> just because somebody thinks it might "do good". >>> >>>Oh, but we already are thanks to all those climate-zealots like greta and >>>rest of the zombies. Not only that ... western dietary guidelines, all >>>this nondemic nonsense and such are surely coming with a BIG pricetag! >> >>You know, that is something that strikes me as weird. Don't get me >>wrong, I like Greta for standing up for what she believes in and >>admire her ability to get people to listen to her. But in what >>universe does a 15 year old know enough about anything other than the >>life of a 15 year old for their opinion to be worth listening to when >>deciding national environmental policy? > > When I was 15 I knew substationaly more about WW2 than my teachers did > in high school. I read books not assigned, but they had lived it. > Maybe they just didn't want to talk about it. > A Lot of people who were involved in wars do not want to talk about them, and anyway, a lot of what happened has only came out in recent years, The Enigma machines and similiar things. At the present, much has beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. -- greymausg@mail.com
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-31 14:03 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <7gbsuft7lhdjavtp0fo8q3328t8flvqu9m@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215789 |
On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:02:25 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, J. Clarke wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't think we should spend VAST amounts of money that we don't have >>>>> just because somebody thinks it might "do good". >>>> >>>>Oh, but we already are thanks to all those climate-zealots like greta and >>>>rest of the zombies. Not only that ... western dietary guidelines, all >>>>this nondemic nonsense and such are surely coming with a BIG pricetag! >>> >>>You know, that is something that strikes me as weird. Don't get me >>>wrong, I like Greta for standing up for what she believes in and >>>admire her ability to get people to listen to her. But in what >>>universe does a 15 year old know enough about anything other than the >>>life of a 15 year old for their opinion to be worth listening to when >>>deciding national environmental policy? >> >> When I was 15 I knew substationaly more about WW2 than my teachers did >> in high school. I read books not assigned, but they had lived it. >> Maybe they just didn't want to talk about it. >> > >A Lot of people who were involved in wars do not want to talk about >them, and anyway, a lot of what happened has only came out in recent >years, The Enigma machines and similiar things. At the present, much has >beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of >Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't mention several things. Like the gruppen that were not far behind the lines who murdered people. -- Jim
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| From | maus <maus@dmaus.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-31 22:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <slrnrusjdd.311.maus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #215792 |
On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of >>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. > > True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the > Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't > mention several things. Like the gruppen that were not far behind the > lines who murdered people. > > yes. Grim stuff, the film ``Look and see'' (or similiar title) shows what happened in Byelorussia. A point to join the present theme to a more usefiul one, I read that the polish crypt guys had broken a simpler machine code before 1939, and the research had been smuggled to the British, which showed that breaking the more complex ones that the Gerrmans switched to after the outbreak of general war was possible. -- greymausg@mail.com
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-01 02:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: polish enigmas, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rsm1mh$il1$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #215816 |
In article <slrnrusjdd.311.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >A point to join the present theme to a more usefiul one, I read that the >polish crypt guys had broken a simpler machine code before 1939, and the >research had been smuggled to the British, which showed that breaking >the more complex ones that the Gerrmans switched to after the outbreak >of general war was possible. Yes, there is a memorial to them at Bletchley Park. Here's an article with a picture of it: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14141406 -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-01 11:32 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <72nuuftduuab1j4um6f26e006sjvmb9u4c@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215816 |
On 31 Dec 2020 22:16:13 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of >>>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. >> >> True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the >> Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't >> mention several things. Like the gruppen that were not far behind the >> lines who murdered people. >> >> > >yes. Grim stuff, the film ``Look and see'' (or similiar title) shows >what happened in Byelorussia. > >A point to join the present theme to a more usefiul one, I read that the >polish crypt guys had broken a simpler machine code before 1939, and the >research had been smuggled to the British, which showed that breaking >the more complex ones that the Gerrmans switched to after the outbreak >of general war was possible. Yes, and some of the Polish security people who had cracked thast, and sent off the examples to England, were captured, tortured, but never let on what they had done. -- Jim
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| From | antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-01 19:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rsnspj$36f$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> |
| In reply to | #215816 |
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke
> >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of
> >>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits.
> >
> > True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the
> > Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't
> > mention several things. Like the gruppen that were not far behind the
> > lines who murdered people.
> >
> >
>
> yes. Grim stuff, the film ``Look and see'' (or similiar title) shows
> what happened in Byelorussia.
>
> A point to join the present theme to a more usefiul one, I read that the
> polish crypt guys had broken a simpler machine code before 1939, and the
> research had been smuggled to the British, which showed that breaking
> the more complex ones that the Gerrmans switched to after the outbreak
> of general war was possible.
That is rather inaccurate. Polish cryptographers broke Enigma
code in 1932. In particular reverse-engineered machine connections
and principles of operations. Some basic informations were
obtained from public data and spies (in particular a French
spy provided user manual and some info about keys (machine settings)).
However, main info came from intercepted encrypted messages.
Enigma contained 3 movable and exchangable discs each realizing
a permutation of alphabet. In later periods Germans added
more discs, at given time machine used 3 of them, but from
late 1938 they were taken from set of 5. Also around 1936
Germans repleced on non-moving disc by a new one. Polish
were able to reconstruct connections of added discs.
Another problem are keys. Discs could be put is several
positions, rotations produced 26^3 different positions.
Discs could be permuted which initially gave 3! = 6
combinations, later 5 over 3 = 60 combinations. There
was also a switchboard adding extra permutation of the
alphabet. Initially Germans limited number of switched
connections so also number of permutations, later become
more flexible. To be able to decrypt one had to reconstruct
current keys (machine settings).
Anyway, there is really no "pre war version" and "war version".
Rather, Germans regularly made changes intened to strengthen
the system. Most changes were to operationg procedures
and cumulatively made process of reconstructing keys much
harder. There were less frequent disruptive changes like
introduction of new discs. However my sources say that
after change in 1938 for the first two years of war Germans
used the same set of discs.
In summer of 1939 Polish inteligence realized that war is
inevitable and decided to share secrets of Enigma with
French and British. At the end of July 1939 Polish
gave to French and British copies of machine (one for French
and one for British). Simultanously Polish described
procedure used to reconstruct machine and key recovery
procedure. As I wrote hardware was actual for the
next two years. In August 1939 Germans again changed
operating procedures, so key recovery procedure had
to be changed (and required more work). There was
a meeting in Poland, machines and printed material was
transferred using diplomatic post (no smuggling involved).
After Poland lost in 1939 Polish cryptographers managed to
escape to France (with no notes/secret material) and
continued work there. In particular still in Poland
they modifed decription procedures to deal with
changes from August. As first thing in France they
re-did this work. After Britsh received material from
Poland they were able to decrypt Enigma. In early
period there was exchange of information (mostly
exchange of broken keys) between British and
Polish/French group (cryptographers were mainly
Polish, French provided needed support). Later British
greatly expanded their part and developed new
methods and no longer needed Polish. After 1942
Polish were no longer involved in breaking Enigma.
There is a book which describes Polish part, in particular
short but understandable explanation of procedure
used to break Enigma. As a little remark, few scraps
on info from British side that I found contain essentialy
only handwaving, but no detail. My guess is that methods
moved from smart use of weaknesses of Enigma toward
more brute-force (as changes eliminated several
weaknesses). To be more precise, machine connections
represent about 5 permutations, that is more than
400 bits of information. This was impossible to
brute-force and will be impossible to brute-force
for long time. But thanks to inital break this part
was known. Switchboard represents about 43 bits
of informations and probably would be impossible
to brute-force during WWII. But Polish cyptographers
invented tricks which effectively neutralised
switchboard, allowing finding positions (and
combination) of discs in use independent of switchboard.
So, positions of discs could be done by brute force.
Once positions of discs were known switchboard
could be broken by statistical method from 19-th
century.
Also, early Polish methods were cryptotext only.
IIUC British moved toward known-plaintext approach:
content of some messages were easily guessable
and recoverd keys could be used to decrypt other
messages.
Before WWII Polish build few machines (called "bomb")
to do brute-forcing. British build more and bigger.
Polish machines were electro-mechanical. Later
British ones are described as electronic (but details
are scarce). I found an intersting tidbit: around
1942 Americans build their electro-mechanical machines.
One technical detail I found was that they operated
at 1500 RPM. My understanding is that single rotation
goes trough 26 machine positions, so the American machine
could go trough (check) 650 position per second. That
looks like impressive speed for electro-mechanical device.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | maus <maus@dmaus.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 11:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <slrnrv0m3c.pkf.maus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #215841 |
On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: > maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >> >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >> >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of >> >>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. >> > >> > True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the >> > Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't > content of some messages were easily guessable > and recoverd keys could be used to decrypt other > messages. > > Before WWII Polish build few machines (called "bomb") > to do brute-forcing. British build more and bigger. > Polish machines were electro-mechanical. Later > British ones are described as electronic (but details > are scarce). I found an intersting tidbit: around > 1942 Americans build their electro-mechanical machines. > One technical detail I found was that they operated > at 1500 RPM. My understanding is that single rotation > goes trough 26 machine positions, so the American machine > could go trough (check) 650 position per second. That > looks like impressive speed for electro-mechanical device. > > We are in general agreement, I think, that it took several countries to decypher the variety of machines that the Germns were so confident of being secure. I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, including the Irish, which used them. There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the Americans in developing Computers. (I am also aware that many of those who worked at Enigma decryption went on to work at general development. ) At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages easily -- greymausg@mail.com
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 09:44 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <q451vf9pb689gsnb5tr0kknf3a82lmr99q@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215853 |
On 2 Jan 2021 11:26:36 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: >> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>> >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >>> >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of >>> >>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits. >>> > >>> > True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the >>> > Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't >> content of some messages were easily guessable >> and recoverd keys could be used to decrypt other >> messages. >> >> Before WWII Polish build few machines (called "bomb") >> to do brute-forcing. British build more and bigger. >> Polish machines were electro-mechanical. Later >> British ones are described as electronic (but details >> are scarce). I found an intersting tidbit: around >> 1942 Americans build their electro-mechanical machines. >> One technical detail I found was that they operated >> at 1500 RPM. My understanding is that single rotation >> goes trough 26 machine positions, so the American machine >> could go trough (check) 650 position per second. That >> looks like impressive speed for electro-mechanical device. >> >> > >We are in general agreement, I think, that it took several countries to >decypher the variety of machines that the Germns were so confident of >being secure. > >I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so >many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas >after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, >including the Irish, which used them. > >There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. >Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the >Americans in developing Computers. > >(I am also aware that many of those who worked at Enigma decryption went >on to work at general development. ) > >At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much >with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages >easily One time pads. I see mention of them from time to time on historical methods documentaries. And whatever those number stations are. Yes, they still exist. -- Jim
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| From | maus <maus@dmaus.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 16:50 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <slrnrv192q.rs6.maus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #215863 |
On 2021-01-02, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2 Jan 2021 11:26:36 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: >>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>>> >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >>>> >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, >>including the Irish, which used them. >> >>There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. >>Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the >>Americans in developing Computers. >> >>(I am also aware that many of those who worked at Enigma decryption went >>on to work at general development. ) >> >>At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much >>with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages >>easily > > One time pads. I see mention of them from time to time on historical > methods documentaries. And whatever those number stations are. Yes, > they still exist. > > I think it was in one of Neil Stephonson books that I read a story of how the germens noticed a pattern in one time pads, and the story leaked back to England, where a check was made, and it was discovered that the lady involved in writing them showed a fondness for some numbers. It seems to be very hard to produce really random numbers. I believe that there are stores of one time pad crypted messages from even the Eisenhower years that have not been broken. -- greymausg@mail.com
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <139605839.631378078.213720.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #215866 |
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: > On 2021-01-02, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2 Jan 2021 11:26:36 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>> On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: >>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>>>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>>>>>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke >>>>>>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, >>> including the Irish, which used them. >>> >>> There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. >>> Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the >>> Americans in developing Computers. >>> >>> (I am also aware that many of those who worked at Enigma decryption went >>> on to work at general development. ) >>> >>> At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much >>> with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages >>> easily >> >> One time pads. I see mention of them from time to time on historical >> methods documentaries. And whatever those number stations are. Yes, >> they still exist. >> >> > > I think it was in one of Neil Stephonson books that I read a story of > how the germens noticed a pattern in one time pads, and the story leaked > back to England, where a check was made, and it was discovered that the > lady involved in writing them showed a fondness for some numbers. It > seems to be very hard to produce really random numbers. I believe that > there are stores of one time pad crypted messages from even the > Eisenhower years that have not been broken. > The important point is the “one time.” You need a lot of messages with the same encryption to break the code. If you only have one message it’s a lot harder. -- Pete
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| From | Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 19:00 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rsqft7$2dp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #215853 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 11:26:36 +0000, maus wrote: > I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so > many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas > after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, > including the Irish, which used them. The Swiss machines from Crypto AG were not versions of Enigma. A sometime poster to this newsgroup did some work on cracking them: <https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/crypt.html>
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 19:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rsqgk1$1obq$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #215853 |
In article <slrnrv0m3c.pkf.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so >many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas >after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, >including the Irish, which used them. Yes, the Bletchly stuff was quite well hidden until the 1970s. >There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. >Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the >Americans in developing Computers. Dunno who's telling that story, but it's nonsense. For one thing, the bombes weren't computers. They were high speed electromechanical versions of the Enigma machines. The Colossus machines, built next door to crack the Lorenz cipher, were arguably computers. They destroyed those too, but that didn't hurt the UK's computer development. Look at the 1940s Manchester machines and Turing's ACE. The British were doing work as good as anyone in the 1940s and 1950s. They got left behind due to poor business decisions, not poor technology. >At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much >with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages >easily Uh, no. The phone in your pocket can encrypt material with ciphers nobody can break. There's been a good deal of political posturing about that. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 14:53 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <9aj1vfdngtudai2hujpglh3hqerb6feg90@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #215877 |
On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 19:13:05 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >In article <slrnrv0m3c.pkf.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote: >>I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so >>many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas >>after the war, and supplied those things to various governments, >>including the Irish, which used them. > >Yes, the Bletchly stuff was quite well hidden until the 1970s. > >>There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end. >>Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the >>Americans in developing Computers. > >Dunno who's telling that story, but it's nonsense. For one thing, the >bombes weren't computers. They were high speed electromechanical >versions of the Enigma machines. The Colossus machines, built next >door to crack the Lorenz cipher, were arguably computers. They >destroyed those too, but that didn't hurt the UK's computer >development. > >Look at the 1940s Manchester machines and Turing's ACE. The British >were doing work as good as anyone in the 1940s and 1950s. They got >left behind due to poor business decisions, not poor technology. > > >>At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much >>with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages >>easily > >Uh, no. The phone in your pocket can encrypt material with ciphers >nobody can break. There's been a good deal of political posturing >about that. I'm surprised that this is not well known to everybody in this newsgroup. One of the major incentives for quantum computing is that in principle it can break current encryption. In practice making it work is proving to be rather difficult.
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| From | antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 19:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Enigma and early computers |
| Message-ID | <rst6ra$3cr$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> |
| In reply to | #215853 |
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
> > maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> >> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> >> >>On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke
> >> >>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of
> >> >>Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits.
> >> >
> >> > True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the
> >> > Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't
> > content of some messages were easily guessable
> > and recoverd keys could be used to decrypt other
> > messages.
> >
> > Before WWII Polish build few machines (called "bomb")
> > to do brute-forcing. British build more and bigger.
> > Polish machines were electro-mechanical. Later
> > British ones are described as electronic (but details
> > are scarce). I found an intersting tidbit: around
> > 1942 Americans build their electro-mechanical machines.
> > One technical detail I found was that they operated
> > at 1500 RPM. My understanding is that single rotation
> > goes trough 26 machine positions, so the American machine
> > could go trough (check) 650 position per second. That
> > looks like impressive speed for electro-mechanical device.
> >
> >
>
> We are in general agreement, I think, that it took several countries to
> decypher the variety of machines that the Germns were so confident of
> being secure.
>
> I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so
> many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas
> after the war, and supplied those things to various governments,
> including the Irish, which used them.
AFAIK Swiss and Spain used machines build on the same principles
as Enigma. During WWII also Japanese and Italian machines.
However, I think that main reason was USSR. Already during
war Americans and British provided help to USSR, but kept
few best inventions to themself. After war there was a
deliberate policy to block transfer of advanced knowlege
and technology to USSR, especially of military technologies.
I do not know when USSR started using encrption machines
and if they were releated to Enigma. But keeping Enigma
secret could be justified on general principles: knowlege
about Enigma would likely advance soviet cryptology and
result in better ciphers.
>
> There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end.
> Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the
> Americans in developing Computers.
I read in biography of Turing that he made computer proposal
including similar technology to that used at Bletchey.
Proposal was rejected, and reviewer said that it required
unrealistically advanced electrical/electronic technology.
Due to secrecy Turing could not say that this technology
already existed and worked well in Bletchey...
OTOH main obstacle to working computers was memory. Zuse
used mechanical memory, which is slow. Atanasoff used
rotating disc containing several capacitors, looks slow
and complicated. ENIAC tried brute-force, that is
electronic memory from vacuum tubes. Quite expensive
and due to frequent tube failures did not work so
well. It seems that most of successful early machines
used delay lines and minority Wiliams tubes. It
is not clear for me if Turing proposed anything
interesting for memory.
To put is differently, a lot of folks were able to do
simple 1-bit ALU and were aware that coupled with
memory such device could compute quite a lot. But
without memory 1-bit ALU is essentialy useless.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 16:03 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: Enigma and early computers |
| Message-ID | <rstf00$bi6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #215911 |
On 1/3/2021 1:44 PM, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote: > AFAIK Swiss and Spain used machines build on the same principles > as Enigma. During WWII also Japanese and Italian machines. > However, I think that main reason was USSR. Already during > war Americans and British provided help to USSR, but kept > few best inventions to themself. After war there was a > deliberate policy to block transfer of advanced knowlege > and technology to USSR, especially of military technologies. > I do not know when USSR started using encrption machines > and if they were releated to Enigma. But keeping Enigma > secret could be justified on general principles: knowlege > about Enigma would likely advance soviet cryptology and > result in better ciphers. It's hard to imagine that the USSR didn't know about Enigma machines, and they probably acquired a number of them. There were, of course, a lot of Germans on their territory, and the Wehrmacht and SS certainly had Enigmas. Especially as the war went on, and the Soviets increasingly had the upper hand.
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| From | antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-04 01:06 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Enigma and early computers |
| Message-ID | <rstpme$d47$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> |
| In reply to | #215916 |
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 1/3/2021 1:44 PM, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
>
> > AFAIK Swiss and Spain used machines build on the same principles
> > as Enigma. During WWII also Japanese and Italian machines.
> > However, I think that main reason was USSR. Already during
> > war Americans and British provided help to USSR, but kept
> > few best inventions to themself. After war there was a
> > deliberate policy to block transfer of advanced knowlege
> > and technology to USSR, especially of military technologies.
> > I do not know when USSR started using encrption machines
> > and if they were releated to Enigma. But keeping Enigma
> > secret could be justified on general principles: knowlege
> > about Enigma would likely advance soviet cryptology and
> > result in better ciphers.
>
> It's hard to imagine that the USSR didn't know about Enigma machines,
> and they probably acquired a number of them. There were, of course, a
> lot of Germans on their territory, and the Wehrmacht and SS certainly
> had Enigmas. Especially as the war went on, and the Soviets
> increasingly had the upper hand.
AFAIK neither Germans nor Soviets knew that Enigma was broken.
That already would be important hint. Writong "knowlege
about Enigma" I really meant knowledge of methods used to break
Enigma. It is likely that Soviets captured some Enigmas after
capitulation of Germany. Earler they would have to take some
command place or communications hub by surprise (without suprise
Germans would destroy all cryptographic materials). Even
with machine in hand they would not know how to recover keys
or even that key recovery was possible.
Anyway, in 1945 without info to the contrary it is resonable
to expect that Soviets will repeat some German mistakes.
And clearly both Americans and Britsh wished ability to read
Soviet ciphers. So they keept weakness of Enigma secret.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 22:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: memories of Enigma and early computers |
| Message-ID | <rsthgv$1jrt$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #215911 |
In article <rst6ra$3cr$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> you write: >I read in biography of Turing that he made computer proposal >including similar technology to that used at Bletchey. >Proposal was rejected, and reviewer said that it required >unrealistically advanced electrical/electronic technology. >Due to secrecy Turing could not say that this technology >already existed and worked well in Bletchey... Right, that was the ACE. >OTOH main obstacle to working computers was memory. Zuse >used mechanical memory, which is slow. Atanasoff used >rotating disc containing several capacitors, looks slow >and complicated. ENIAC tried brute-force, that is >electronic memory from vacuum tubes. Quite expensive >and due to frequent tube failures did not work so >well. It seems that most of successful early machines >used delay lines and minority Wiliams tubes. ... Williams tubes never worked very well. The Selectron was a better design for vacuum tube memory but was hard to manufacture so only one Selectron computer, the RAND Corp's JOHNNIAC, used them before core memory made them obsolete. Delay lines worked OK but were a pain to program because you had to sprinkle your programs around the memory to try and minimize the delay. A few computers like the IBM 650 had very fast drum main memory (12500 RPM) which had the same delay problem, somewhat mitigated by optimizing assemblers that did most of the sprinkling for you. In my youth I programmed a Packard Bell 250 (the real Packard Bell, not the later Korean PC clone maker) with magnetostrictive delay line memory. We sketched the programs out on big pieces of paper. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-04 10:07 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: memories of Enigma and early computers |
| Message-ID | <rsupce$m7g$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #215919 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> schrieb: > A few computers like the IBM 650 had very fast drum main memory > (12500 RPM) which had the same delay problem, somewhat mitigated by > optimizing assemblers that did most of the sprinkling for you. And, of course, there were the LGP-30 and RPC-4000 by Royal McBee, a computer line immortalized by the Story of Mel and by the fact that an early indicationn chaotic behavior was first found on an LGP-30. As 99.9% of you probably know, Mel eschewed the use of optimizing assemblers.
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