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LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all?

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  LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 10:57 +0100
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-14 12:10 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 14:09 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 14:23 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-14 16:36 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 18:44 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2020-09-15 14:14 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? "Massimo M." <massimo79m@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:50 -0700
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 18:44 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 00:07 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-21 07:08 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? "Massimo M." <massimo79m@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 02:59 -0700
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 00:06 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-21 08:36 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 13:15 +0100
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-21 12:30 +0000
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-26 16:25 +0100
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-26 18:01 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-26 18:12 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-26 22:14 -0300
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-26 14:27 -0400
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-26 20:20 +0100
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 15:54 -0400
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 08:14 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-14 14:25 -0500
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-26 12:05 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:52 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0100
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-14 14:04 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 19:23 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-14 19:57 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 22:07 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-15 10:47 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:28 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-14 22:16 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 22:57 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 05:59 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-14 22:28 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 15:47 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 04:30 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 09:26 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 09:28 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-15 10:55 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:34 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-09-15 09:03 -0500
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 06:16 -0700
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 15:52 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-15 15:53 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 17:34 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-15 17:54 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 20:25 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 22:13 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-16 10:10 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-15 08:41 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:28 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 08:15 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 08:29 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 09:46 -0400
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 17:16 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 18:02 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 18:47 -0400
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 12:56 -0700
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-21 22:45 +0200
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-21 21:05 +0000
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-22 10:24 +0200
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 17:19 -0700
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-22 10:23 +0200
                          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 15:02 -0700
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:51 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 15:21 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:32 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-15 23:22 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 21:14 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-16 08:04 +0100
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-16 17:42 +0000
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-16 20:25 +0000
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 18:28 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-18 20:40 +0000
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-09-15 13:52 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-09-16 06:00 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-26 14:24 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-26 11:07 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-26 17:49 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-26 17:47 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 08:07 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 07:47 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 07:50 -0400
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 10:05 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 12:32 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 13:05 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 15:56 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-28 08:53 +0000
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-29 08:21 +0200
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-29 08:13 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-27 22:29 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-28 08:56 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-28 16:35 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-10-07 18:14 +0000
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Kelli Halliburton <kelli217@gmail.com> - 2020-10-09 14:07 -0700
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> - 2020-11-18 10:18 -0800

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#214588

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 16:25:05 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 09/21/20 13:30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article<rka5hq$nk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>  wrote:
>>> On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>>>>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>>>>> of hours.
>>>>
>>>> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
>>>> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
>>>> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
>>> the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
>>> client, nfs mounts etc.
>>>
>>> But yes, faster than just  about every other os for the basic install...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> In my recent experience it is faster to install FreeBSD than to fix what the
>> lastest upgrade to Firefox has done to all my settings.
>>
>> And, then of course there's always the worst case install scenario for
>> anything:
>>
>> 		https://xkcd.com/349/
>
>I rarely if ever upgrade anything, once a system is stable. Really don't
>need the paranoia of security fixes every other day. As for Firefox,
>still on 52.9esr, as that's the last version that will run the classic
>theme restorer plugin. I like tabs below and icons grouped at one end
>etc, all kinds of stuff that Firefox's later revs have broken with no
>alternatives...

At work we get updates at least twice a month, whether we need them or
not and regardless of what mission-critical activity is taking place.
I suspect that that won't end until the CEO's machine reboots on him
in the middle of a meeting.

The ones that are really annoying are the ones where a popup appears,
says "reboot immediately", you shut everything down, reboot, an hour
later it's finished installing stuff, the machine comes up, and the
first thing that appears is a popup announcing an update to what was
ostensibly just updated.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#214590

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:27:28 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> The ones that are really annoying are the ones where a popup appears,
> says "reboot immediately", you shut everything down, reboot, an hour
> later it's finished installing stuff, the machine comes up, and the
> first thing that appears is a popup announcing an update to what was
> ostensibly just updated.

	Amen to that, I miss having a MacBook for work.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#214603

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 16:25:05 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 09/21/20 13:30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article<rka5hq$nk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>> On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>>>>>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>>>>>> of hours.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
>>>>> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
>>>>> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
>>>> the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
>>>> client, nfs mounts etc.
>>>> 
>>>> But yes, faster than just  about every other os for the basic install...
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> In my recent experience it is faster to install FreeBSD than to fix what the
>>> lastest upgrade to Firefox has done to all my settings.
>>> 
>>> And, then of course there's always the worst case install scenario for
>>> anything:
>>> 
>>> https://xkcd.com/349/
>> 
>> I rarely if ever upgrade anything, once a system is stable. Really don't
>> need the paranoia of security fixes every other day. As for Firefox,
>> still on 52.9esr, as that's the last version that will run the classic
>> theme restorer plugin. I like tabs below and icons grouped at one end
>> etc, all kinds of stuff that Firefox's later revs have broken with no
>> alternatives...
> 
> At work we get updates at least twice a month, whether we need them or
> not and regardless of what mission-critical activity is taking place.
> I suspect that that won't end until the CEO's machine reboots on him
> in the middle of a meeting.
> 
> The ones that are really annoying are the ones where a popup appears,
> says "reboot immediately", you shut everything down, reboot, an hour
> later it's finished installing stuff, the machine comes up, and the
> first thing that appears is a popup announcing an update to what was
> ostensibly just updated.
> 

Since it’s work, presumably they wouldn’t like it if you unplugged your
network cable overnight.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#214605

On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 10:38:09 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 16:25:05 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 09/21/20 13:30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article<rka5hq$nk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>> Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>>> On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>>>>>>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>>>>>>> of hours.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
>>>>>> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
>>>>>> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
>>>>> the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
>>>>> client, nfs mounts etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But yes, faster than just  about every other os for the basic install...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> In my recent experience it is faster to install FreeBSD than to fix what the
>>>> lastest upgrade to Firefox has done to all my settings.
>>>> 
>>>> And, then of course there's always the worst case install scenario for
>>>> anything:
>>>> 
>>>> https://xkcd.com/349/
>>> 
>>> I rarely if ever upgrade anything, once a system is stable. Really don't
>>> need the paranoia of security fixes every other day. As for Firefox,
>>> still on 52.9esr, as that's the last version that will run the classic
>>> theme restorer plugin. I like tabs below and icons grouped at one end
>>> etc, all kinds of stuff that Firefox's later revs have broken with no
>>> alternatives...
>> 
>> At work we get updates at least twice a month, whether we need them or
>> not and regardless of what mission-critical activity is taking place.
>> I suspect that that won't end until the CEO's machine reboots on him
>> in the middle of a meeting.
>> 
>> The ones that are really annoying are the ones where a popup appears,
>> says "reboot immediately", you shut everything down, reboot, an hour
>> later it's finished installing stuff, the machine comes up, and the
>> first thing that appears is a popup announcing an update to what was
>> ostensibly just updated.
>> 
>
>Since it’s work, presumably they wouldn’t like it if you unplugged your
>network cable overnight.

It's their computer, so I have to let them do what they want to with
it.  On the other hand, the IT department is not run by a Windows
person, so he's deathly afraid of malware--he hasn't learned that the
_true_ malware threat is all the worthless crap that is foisted off on
corporate America as "protection against malware".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#214597

On 2020-09-26, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
> I rarely if ever upgrade anything, once a system is stable. Really don't
> need the paranoia of security fixes every other day. As for Firefox,
> still on 52.9esr, as that's the last version that will run the classic
> theme restorer plugin. I like tabs below and icons grouped at one end
> etc, all kinds of stuff that Firefox's later revs have broken with no
> alternatives...

I'm still miffed that Firefox redid its architecture and broke all old
plugins. I'm a massive tab hoarder and used Tab Mix Plus so I could have
multiple rows of tabs. That broke.

Niklas
-- 
Or worse - you end up in my back bedroom, covered in bubble wrap.
                       -- Jim

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#214229

 > Use a systemd-free Linux distribution (Devuan comes to mind) and
 > do not install / start up those daemons that you don't need.

Alpine is a lovably minimal (by default) linux distribution.

De

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#214575

On Mon, 2020-09-14, Dennis Boone wrote:
> > Use a systemd-free Linux distribution (Devuan comes to mind) and
> > do not install / start up those daemons that you don't need.
>
> Alpine is a lovably minimal (by default) linux distribution.

I somehow doubt the distribution makes much difference. If you don't
install the bloatware, Debian is pretty slim, too.  Even the CentOS 7
VM I run at work only has a handful of daemons running.  It's mostly a
matter of finding the option in the installer which lets /you/ choose
what to install. And staying away from systemd and Gnome.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#214274

On 2020-09-14, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>
>> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
>> and bugger-all else?
>
> Use a systemd-free Linux distribution (Devuan comes to mind) and
> do not install / start up those daemons that you don't need.
>
> If you want a bare-bones window manager, use i3.

dwm. Cured my arm pain

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#214284

On 15 Sep 2020 18:52:18 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2020-09-14, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> > gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> >
> >> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
> >> and bugger-all else?
> >
> > Use a systemd-free Linux distribution (Devuan comes to mind) and
> > do not install / start up those daemons that you don't need.
> >
> > If you want a bare-bones window manager, use i3.
> 
> dwm. Cured my arm pain

flwm yes ell not vee.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214227

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:57:12 +0100, gareth evans wrote:
>
> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus
> was in complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS
> that runs only the programs that I wish, and that does not
> have shedloads of daemons and background processes that I did not
> launch.
>
> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
> and bugger-all else?

My thought was CP/M. It has printer support and GEM as GUI is
available. But the internet option might be a problem.
-- 
Andreas

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#214228

On 14/09/2020 19:04, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:57:12 +0100, gareth evans wrote:
>>
>> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus
>> was in complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS
>> that runs only the programs that I wish, and that does not
>> have shedloads of daemons and background processes that I did not
>> launch.
>>
>> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
>> and bugger-all else?
>
> My thought was CP/M. It has printer support and GEM as GUI is
> available. But the internet option might be a problem.
>

ISTR (back in 1987) that GEM on the Amstrad 1512 was nobbut a
pictorial representation of a file directory.

However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
background

After prompting from another poster, I did look up Linux From Scratch
but it seems to be arse-about-face because you'd already need a complex
LINUX installation in order to create a simple one!

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#214230

On 2020-09-14, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
> I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
> Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
> background

MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on the
matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?

Niklas
-- 
"There are some benefits to high blood pressure", Bob mused as
another mosquito exploded.
                       -- Bulwer-Lytton contest entry

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#214231

On 14/09/2020 20:57, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
>> I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
>> Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
>> background
>
> MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on the
> matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?

The graphical user interface and the world wide web are two
fantastic developments in the field of computing, but why
do they come with so much baggage dragging them down? Have we
forgotten the capabilities of simple OSs?

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#214246

On 2020-09-14, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The graphical user interface and the world wide web are two
> fantastic developments in the field of computing, but why
> do they come with so much baggage dragging them down? Have we
> forgotten the capabilities of simple OSs?

Computers have gradually become more and more powerful and comparatively
cheaper. Software, like anything else, tends to expand to consume the
resources available, without necessarily providing greater utility in
proportion.

Niklas
-- 
In college, I wrote a TECO-like progamming language as a joke - one-letter
statements, totally unreadable.  Then I discovered sendmail, and stopped,
because the joke had been done so much better than I ever could.
                       -- Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes

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#214249

On 15/09/2020 11:47, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The graphical user interface and the world wide web are two
>> fantastic developments in the field of computing, but why
>> do they come with so much baggage dragging them down? Have we
>> forgotten the capabilities of simple OSs?
>
> Computers have gradually become more and more powerful and comparatively
> cheaper. Software, like anything else, tends to expand to consume the
> resources available, without necessarily providing greater utility in
> proportion.

... which is where I came in!   :-)

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#214233

On 14 Sep 2020 19:57:43 GMT
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:

> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
> > I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
> > Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
> > background
> 
> MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on the
> matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?

	There are TCP/IP stacks for the Z80, and GEM for CP/M so it would
seem to be at least possible to arrange an internet connected MP/M box with
a GUI. A web browser with CSS and JavaScript is probably completely
impossible though.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214234

On 09/14/20 22:16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2020 19:57:43 GMT
> Niklas Karlsson<anksil@yahoo.se>  wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans<headstone255@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>> However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
>>> I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
>>> Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
>>> background
>>
>> MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on the
>> matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?
>
> 	There are TCP/IP stacks for the Z80, and GEM for CP/M so it would
> seem to be at least possible to arrange an internet connected MP/M box with
> a GUI. A web browser with CSS and JavaScript is probably completely
> impossible though.
>

The older machines have neither the cpu power, nor the memory to support
a modern browser. The bloatware in modern os's is coming the gui,
primarily, with loads of gui applications layered on top of the basic
framework. That also needs os support, from networking, memory
management, security and much more.

So much more functionality from current systems that we could only dream
about 20 years ago, but there are different tradeoffs now...

Chris

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#214240

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 22:57:14 +0100
Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/14/20 22:16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On 14 Sep 2020 19:57:43 GMT
> > Niklas Karlsson<anksil@yahoo.se>  wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans<headstone255@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >>> However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
> >>> I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
> >>> Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
> >>> background
> >>
> >> MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on
> >> the matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?
> >
> > 	There are TCP/IP stacks for the Z80, and GEM for CP/M so it
> > would seem to be at least possible to arrange an internet connected
> > MP/M box with a GUI. A web browser with CSS and JavaScript is probably
> > completely impossible though.
> >
> 
> The older machines have neither the cpu power, nor the memory to support
> a modern browser. The bloatware in modern os's is coming the gui,

	Oh sure, but I was contemplating a modern MP/M machine - take an
FPGA and a DDR4 RAM stick and you could probably run a hundred or more Z80A
equivalents each with 256K of bank switched RAM. Run MP/M on it like a giant
Micromation box. But even then I doubt a modern browser could be split into
enough small parts to make it work.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214286

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 22:57:14 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
>On 09/14/20 22:16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On 14 Sep 2020 19:57:43 GMT
>> Niklas Karlsson<anksil@yahoo.se>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-09-14, gareth evans<headstone255@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>> However. CP/M to my memory is not multiprogrammed, so although
>>>> I would not want the law-unto-themmselves of numerous anonymous
>>>> Daemons and processes, I'd still want to control what happens in the
>>>> background
>>>
>>> MP/M is multiprogrammed, but that probably still doesn't help you on the
>>> matter of TCP/IP. Not sure about the GUI question either. Anyone?
>>
>> 	There are TCP/IP stacks for the Z80, and GEM for CP/M so it would
>> seem to be at least possible to arrange an internet connected MP/M box with
>> a GUI. A web browser with CSS and JavaScript is probably completely
>> impossible though.
>>
>The older machines have neither the cpu power, nor the memory to support
>a modern browser. The bloatware in modern os's is coming the gui,

Sorry, I have to disagree.  See my other post about Geoworks.  Older machines
have plenty enough horsepower and memory to run a modern browser, if it was
coded efficiently.  That current software isn't so written is in part because of
the idea that with so much CPU and memory available, it isn't necesary.

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#214235

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 14:04:07 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:57:12 +0100, gareth evans wrote:
>>
>> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus was in
>> complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS that runs only
>> the programs that I wish, and that does not have shedloads of daemons
>> and background processes that I did not launch.
>>
>> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
>> and bugger-all else?
> 
> My thought was CP/M. It has printer support and GEM as GUI is available.
> But the internet option might be a problem.

Surely it's bloated if it has a GUI? I used UNIX for years before it had 
a GUI.




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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