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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #215646 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000 |
| Last post | 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 577 — 38 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 10:42 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 12:50 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 11:16 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-28 18:43 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 19:34 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 23:48 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-29 02:44 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-12-29 13:04 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:08 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-30 20:25 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:08 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 12:58 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:22 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 15:10 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:07 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:15 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:50 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:48 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 17:05 +0000
car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-29 17:43 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:00 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-29 20:05 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:01 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 23:36 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:58 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:45 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:38 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 13:28 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 06:02 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 08:50 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:14 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:43 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:15 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:43 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:56 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:17 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 18:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:46 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:54 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:09 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:46 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Leo <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-01-06 17:38 -0800
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-07 16:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:24 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-02 20:25 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 21:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 03:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:11 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:49 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:52 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:12 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 15:10 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:13 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:21 -0500
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 19:22 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 00:01 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:28 -0500
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 19:55 +0000
Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 21:11 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 14:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-04 21:22 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 22:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:07 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:26 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:15 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:15 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-09 01:16 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 12:54 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-10 09:36 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:46 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-07 12:02 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 17:18 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 17:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 19:19 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:02 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:22 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:24 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:29 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2021-01-10 06:31 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-10 13:25 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:38 +0000
Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-11 15:46 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:30 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-10 19:45 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:27 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 10:18 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 18:23 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:31 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:15 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 20:39 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 21:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 22:04 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:13 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:31 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:31 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:41 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-12 12:06 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:42 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:31 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:58 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:06 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:47 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:37 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:45 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-12 03:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:42 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:36 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:29 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-14 09:47 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:36 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-14 19:53 +0000
Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-14 21:23 +0000
Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 18:58 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:10 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 12:05 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-12 23:47 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:49 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Alfred Falk <aefalk@telus.net> - 2021-01-15 16:21 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:30 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-14 21:51 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 11:52 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:13 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-15 19:40 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:49 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:18 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 23:14 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:03 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:29 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-12 21:36 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-13 20:20 +0000
Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-13 22:11 +0000
Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-10 18:26 -0400
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-10 20:00 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:35 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:41 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:19 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:21 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:35 -0600
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-16 20:00 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-17 11:49 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-17 17:59 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-17 21:43 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-19 11:32 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 21:35 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:17 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:58 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-12 19:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 16:27 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:46 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:48 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 23:00 -0500
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:57 +0000
Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 19:46 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:27 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:51 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:40 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:45 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 16:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 23:26 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:50 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 15:48 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:35 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 20:25 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:19 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:40 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:25 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 12:51 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 21:00 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:24 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:56 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:21 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:52 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 22:14 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:36 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-09 13:31 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:21 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:13 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:28 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-07 12:24 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 12:40 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:38 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2021-01-09 02:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 22:02 -0500
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:41 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-11 15:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:16 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:56 +0000
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 11:46 -0500
Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 14:06 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:51 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:43 -0500
Re: dim bulbs, not car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:55 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 15:55 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 02:25 -0400
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:31 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-06 17:04 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-07 21:32 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 23:05 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-08 20:05 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 16:01 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 17:09 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:34 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-08 20:41 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:19 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:45 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:42 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:09 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:30 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-03 21:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-03 22:13 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 20:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:41 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 20:47 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 17:37 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-01 19:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 00:36 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:24 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 03:55 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 23:29 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:53 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:06 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:38 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:02 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:22 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 02:12 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-31 01:34 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-12-31 11:53 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 10:13 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:20 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:23 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:42 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:26 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:39 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:35 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:35 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 15:23 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:05 -0500
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:26 +0000
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 23:12 -0500
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-01 04:41 +0000
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 15:17 -0600
Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:46 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-01 13:29 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 08:54 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-05 17:35 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 11:38 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:26 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:38 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-02 23:25 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:12 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:34 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:47 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 14:03 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:16 +0000
Re: polish enigmas, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:33 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:32 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-01 19:22 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 11:26 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 09:44 -0600
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 16:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-01-02 19:00 +0000
Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:13 +0000
Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:53 -0500
Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-03 19:44 +0000
Re: Enigma and early computers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 16:03 -0600
Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-04 01:06 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:46 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-04 10:07 +0000
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
Re: Enigma and early computers Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-04 21:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:36 +0200
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-03 11:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:08 +0000
Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-29 21:35 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-29 22:51 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:56 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 13:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:41 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 18:15 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 15:10 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 15:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 16:21 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:13 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:43 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 19:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:54 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-31 12:50 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:50 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-01 21:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:22 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:48 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:59 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:03 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 17:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:25 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 14:54 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:15 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:13 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:27 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:40 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-01 11:05 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:19 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:44 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:06 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 15:13 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:14 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:34 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:07 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:44 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-31 21:35 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 16:08 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:16 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:25 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:27 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:20 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-31 19:03 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:38 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:30 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:06 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:46 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:56 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:37 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 13:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:09 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 18:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:11 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 18:01 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 15:11 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 20:38 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 16:45 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 22:28 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:33 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:26 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 02:50 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:13 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:12 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:27 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 22:57 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-30 18:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 14:19 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-03 21:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 19:57 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 03:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-04 13:58 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:00 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:35 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:46 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 20:00 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-01-04 22:15 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 03:10 -0400
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:57 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-05 11:59 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:48 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 10:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 07:23 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 22:11 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-12-30 16:46 -0400
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:16 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:45 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 14:51 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:14 +0100
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 01:54 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:24 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:17 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 15:55 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 16:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 17:08 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 19:42 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 20:05 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 03:20 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 03:25 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:51 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 16:33 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:46 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:44 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:55 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:23 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-31 21:43 -0600
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:04 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:39 -0500
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:31 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:41 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-07 09:18 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:44 +0000
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-01-01 15:35 +0200
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:30 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 14:18 -0700
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:26 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 18:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:59 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:50 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:52 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 06:48 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:16 -0500
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:18 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:25 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:54 +0000
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:08 +0100
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 23:01 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-29 19:28 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 19:37 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 15:00 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:53 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 19:00 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-12-29 09:40 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 15:01 +0200
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:10 -0500
Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 18:11 +0200
Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:18 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:16 -0600
Re: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-28 21:43 +0000
Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-28 22:18 +0000
Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-28 22:30 +0000
Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 20:24 +0100
Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:52 -0700
Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-07 07:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <20210107072719.c239a302f5cb85c726eacf6f@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #216111 |
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 01:41:24 GMT usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: > I don't hold the participants in this group responsible for the > statements of self-driving car proponents. I believe that the time will come that self driving cars are safer than human drivers on average. From that point they will only get better. It is happening without any support from me so I am not a proponent simply an observer. You are correct that there are no self-driving cars today and that none of the driver assist autonomy on the market comes close to being anything else. > Consequently, I don't expect > an answer to one of my many questions. If the primary motivation for > autonomous vehicles is traffic safety and saving lives, The primary motivation of those developing it is to make money selling it. Saving lives is what it will have to do in order for fully autonomous vehicles to take off. That being said I have seen claims (by Tesla so add salt and check if you really care) that the accident statistics already show that the current state of the art improves road safety. > then why aren't > these people actively advocating for the many things that can literally > be done today without spending billions of dollars trying to develop an > expensive, unproven technology that will require radical changes to our > transportation infrastructure? It isn't an advocacy issue teams are working on it without any advocacy because they believe it will sell - the evidence to date is that they are right it does sell. Since it sells there is a market driven feedback loop in place that will ensure continual improvement. The endpoint of that is either fully autonomous vehicles or conclusive evidence that it is impossible - I do *not* believe that it is impossible to make a system that drives better than humans. But self driving cars require *no* changes to any infrastructure. Electric cars do but electric and self-driving are independent technologies. Many petrol and diesel cars have similar driver assist autonomy to Tesla's electric cars they just don't shout about it as much and don't claim to be blazing the trail to full autonomy. > For example, if one is worried about > drunk driving, then lobby for stricter laws like has been done in Norway. We (Ireland) have pretty strict drunk and drug driving laws, and laws to keep untrained drivers off the road, and so on. The only thing about those is enforcement is inevitably poor. Fully autonomous vehicles would be a *great* thing to have for so very many reasons, being safer than human drivers is a *requirement* that they *have* to meet before we can have them. A lot of people are working on it and I see no reason to believe that they cannot succeed. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <5ffae4c8.2888793@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #216115 |
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 07:27:19 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 01:41:24 GMT >usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >> I don't hold the participants in this group responsible for the >> statements of self-driving car proponents. > > I believe that the time will come that self driving cars are safer >than human drivers on average. From that point they will only get better. It >is happening without any support from me so I am not a proponent simply an >observer. > > You are correct that there are no self-driving cars today and that >none of the driver assist autonomy on the market comes close to being >anything else. > >> Consequently, I don't expect >> an answer to one of my many questions. If the primary motivation for >> autonomous vehicles is traffic safety and saving lives, > > The primary motivation of those developing it is to make money >selling it. Saving lives is what it will have to do in order for fully >autonomous vehicles to take off. Yes, of course the primary motiation is profit. I am under no illusion about that. My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by self-driving advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of cars that never make a mistake. They act like this science-fiction future is inevitable. It is not. Apparently nothing ever breaks or malfunctions in their shiny dreams. And apparently there are no vandals, malicious people, or criminals either. You think ransomware is a problem now, with dozens of hospitals, businesses, and municipalities getting locked out of their computer systems? Wait till millions of self-driving cars get hit with a ransomware attack. Or more mundanely, how about a mistake in a software update pushed out automatically that accidentally "bricks" thousands of vehicles? Every problem we see today with computerized systems is almost certain to occur with autonomous vehicles. > That being said I have seen claims (by Tesla so add salt and check >if you really care) that the accident statistics already show that the >current state of the art improves road safety. > >> then why aren't >> these people actively advocating for the many things that can literally >> be done today without spending billions of dollars trying to develop an >> expensive, unproven technology that will require radical changes to our >> transportation infrastructure? > > It isn't an advocacy issue teams are working on it without any >advocacy because they believe it will sell - the evidence to date is that >they are right it does sell. Since it sells there is a market driven >feedback loop in place that will ensure continual improvement. The endpoint >of that is either fully autonomous vehicles or conclusive evidence that it >is impossible - I do *not* believe that it is impossible to make a system >that drives better than humans. Again, of course they want to sell self-driving cars. My point is that the advocates who tout safety foremost have suspect motivations. They don't really care about driving safety, because if they did, they could do something about it today. > But self driving cars require *no* changes to any infrastructure. >Electric cars do but electric and self-driving are independent >technologies. Many petrol and diesel cars have similar driver assist >autonomy to Tesla's electric cars they just don't shout about it as much >and don't claim to be blazing the trail to full autonomy. No, there will be changes, particularly at various endpoints to accommodate maneuvering and parking limitations. Modifications will also be made to signage and signals to make it easier for autonomous vehicles to recognize them. It won't happen right away, and not all at once, but at such point that autonomous vechicles are permitted to advance past the testing phase, the suggestions to make these changes will begin. Ultimately those suggestions will be acted upon. The solution to some of the unusual situations, particularly at endpoints and edge cases, will be to eliminate the situation. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Well don't do that!" >> For example, if one is worried about >> drunk driving, then lobby for stricter laws like has been done in Norway. > > We (Ireland) have pretty strict drunk and drug driving laws, and >laws to keep untrained drivers off the road, and so on. The only thing >about those is enforcement is inevitably poor. > > Fully autonomous vehicles would be a *great* thing to have for so >very many reasons, being safer than human drivers is a *requirement* that >they *have* to meet before we can have them. A lot of people are working on >it and I see no reason to believe that they cannot succeed. Your unfailing faith in technology is noted, despite the historical record indicating it is somewhat misplaced.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 09:07 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rtf1mu$asl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #216176 |
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: > My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by self-driving > advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of cars that never make a > mistake. They act like this science-fiction future is inevitable. I believe this is fiction. I think if we ever create self driving cars that are safer than human driven cars it will be a boon. However, none of the rest of your claims apply to me and I can't remember anyone else making such claims. If there are such people, I'd guess there are very few people that fit in that category. As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save a few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that would be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that no one would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by with a fifth of the number of cars we have today. -- Dan Espen
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 12:29 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <tvdmvf5tlifo9sc68gvh7otjch1hg1nje6@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #216185 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: > >> My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by self-driving >> advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of cars that never make a >> mistake. They act like this science-fiction future is inevitable. > >I believe this is fiction. > >I think if we ever create self driving cars that are safer than human >driven cars it will be a boon. >However, none of the rest of your claims apply to me and I can't >remember anyone else making such claims. > >If there are such people, I'd guess there are very few people that >fit in that category. > >As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save >a few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that >would be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that >no one would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by >with a fifth of the number of cars we have today. I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable state of affairs. I know you have this rosy vision of there being an unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away from every point on Earth but I see no reason to believe that that's how it is going to work. I envision many long cold wet waits for the car to show up, and much lugging of stuff around that I don't want to be lugging because I have to empty the car every time I get out of it.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 13:29 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rtfh2l$282$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #216187 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >> >>> My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by >>> self-driving advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of >>> cars that never make a mistake. They act like this science-fiction >>> future is inevitable. >> >>I believe this is fiction. >> >>I think if we ever create self driving cars that are safer than human >>driven cars it will be a boon. However, none of the rest of your >>claims apply to me and I can't remember anyone else making such >>claims. >> >>If there are such people, I'd guess there are very few people that fit >>in that category. >> >>As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save a >>few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that would >>be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that no one >>would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by with a >>fifth of the number of cars we have today. > > I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would > have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable > state of affairs. I know you have this rosy vision of there being an > unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away > from every point on Earth but I see no reason to believe that that's > how it is going to work. I envision many long cold wet waits for the > car to show up, and much lugging of stuff around that I don't want to > be lugging because I have to empty the car every time I get out of it. I really don't think it's a good idea to go down the "people like you" road. I never said I'd do anything to force anyone to give up their personal car. If I'm in my house and I click on "send me a car", it would be in my driveway before I got out of the house if there was a free car within a quarter mile. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Sure seems to me a simple matter to build a few more cars if there's a shortage. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 18:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <20210110185114.d5e159347d6eb7d79a784fc1@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #216189 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:29:41 -0500 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > If I'm in my house and I click on "send me a car", it would be in my > driveway before I got out of the house if there was a free car within a > quarter mile. Sounds about right, and local population density will essentially determine the probability of that being the case. I'd probably be waiting for one to make its way to me from several miles away. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:40 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <66pmvflf85avdsst30g2n8o2p877ju0um5@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #216189 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:29:41 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > >> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>>usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>> >>>> My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by >>>> self-driving advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of >>>> cars that never make a mistake. They act like this science-fiction >>>> future is inevitable. >>> >>>I believe this is fiction. >>> >>>I think if we ever create self driving cars that are safer than human >>>driven cars it will be a boon. However, none of the rest of your >>>claims apply to me and I can't remember anyone else making such >>>claims. >>> >>>If there are such people, I'd guess there are very few people that fit >>>in that category. >>> >>>As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save a >>>few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that would >>>be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that no one >>>would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by with a >>>fifth of the number of cars we have today. >> >> I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would >> have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable >> state of affairs. I know you have this rosy vision of there being an >> unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away >> from every point on Earth but I see no reason to believe that that's >> how it is going to work. I envision many long cold wet waits for the >> car to show up, and much lugging of stuff around that I don't want to >> be lugging because I have to empty the car every time I get out of it. > >I really don't think it's a good idea to go down the "people like you" >road. There is a class of people who believe that self-driving cars will result in some kind of automotive utopia where everybody rides automated taxis and nobody owns a car. Do you deny that you belong to that class? >I never said I'd do anything to force anyone to give up their personal >car. > >If I'm in my house and I click on "send me a car", it would be in my >driveway before I got out of the house if there was a free car within a >quarter mile. And if there isn't? >Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Sure seems to me a simple matter >to build a few more cars if there's a shortage. So we end up with as many cars as we have now, but they all belong to some vast faceless ride-sharing corporation instead of individuals. Why does that not reassure me? And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what condition he left it in.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 20:54 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <aQJKH.73341$SY1.24341@fx38.iad> |
| In reply to | #216200 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:29:41 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> >wrote: > >>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>>> >>>>> My complaint is that you won't hear that put so plainly by >>>>> self-driving advocates. They spin a yarn of unparalleled safety, of >>>>> cars that never make a mistake. They act like this science-fiction >>>>> future is inevitable. >>>> >>>>I believe this is fiction. >>>> >>>>I think if we ever create self driving cars that are safer than human >>>>driven cars it will be a boon. However, none of the rest of your >>>>claims apply to me and I can't remember anyone else making such >>>>claims. >>>> >>>>If there are such people, I'd guess there are very few people that fit >>>>in that category. >>>> >>>>As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save a >>>>few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that would >>>>be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that no one >>>>would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by with a >>>>fifth of the number of cars we have today. >>> >>> I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would >>> have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable >>> state of affairs. I know you have this rosy vision of there being an >>> unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away >>> from every point on Earth but I see no reason to believe that that's >>> how it is going to work. I envision many long cold wet waits for the >>> car to show up, and much lugging of stuff around that I don't want to >>> be lugging because I have to empty the car every time I get out of it. >> >>I really don't think it's a good idea to go down the "people like you" >>road. > >There is a class of people who believe that self-driving cars will >result in some kind of automotive utopia where everybody rides >automated taxis and nobody owns a car. Do you deny that you belong to >that class? I'm not Dan, but I would deny that 'class of people' exists, outside of a handful of individuals and strawman arguments. I certainly believe that were such self-driving on-demand vehicles available, it would likely mean that a substantial fraction of the population of larger cities would find (as many new yorkers and londoners already do) that a personal automobile is unnecessary.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 00:45 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rtg74101kva@news4.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #216202 |
On 2021-01-10, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > I certainly believe that were such self-driving on-demand > vehicles available, it would likely mean that a substantial > fraction of the population of larger cities would find (as > many new yorkers and londoners already do) that a personal > automobile is unnecessary. Not just recently, or in New York and London. On a visit to San Francisco in 1994 we rented a car to drive down to Monterey for a few days. When we got back we hung on to the car. We soon realized that in downtown San Francisco it was more of a liability than an asset, and returned it. We were able to get around just fine with public transit, never mind autonomous vehicles. The situation would be different in less densely populated areas, or if you had to regularly go outside the urban core... -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make." / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <5ffcc92f.11759258@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #216202 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 20:54:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >>There is a class of people who believe that self-driving cars will >>result in some kind of automotive utopia where everybody rides >>automated taxis and nobody owns a car. Do you deny that you belong to >>that class? > >I'm not Dan, but I would deny that 'class of people' exists, outside of a handful >of individuals and strawman arguments. You can be forgiven for not keeping up with all the writing on self-driving vehicles, however there most certainly is a notable subset of advocates who think that autonomous vehicles will somehow result in greatly reduced private ownership of cars. I think that would be very unlikely, given how people treat their cars as an extension of their personal space and/or homes. >I certainly believe that were such self-driving on-demand vehicles available, it would >likely mean that a substantial fraction of the population of larger cities >would find (as many new yorkers and londoners already do) that a >personal automobile is unnecessary. There are taxis and now services like Lyft and Uber. I don't see how autonomous vehicles changes that equation significantly.
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 16:51 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rtfst2$pnk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #216200 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > There is a class of people... Sorry, I'm out of this one. -- Dan Espen
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #216200 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 15:40:55 -0500, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >So we end up with as many cars as we have now, but they all belong to >some vast faceless ride-sharing corporation instead of individuals. >Why does that not reassure me? > >And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what >condition he left it in. Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons and all that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and rideshare vehicles as "party cars" is just one of many foreseeable problems.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 22:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <rtiirg$4tt$4@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #216241 |
In article <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com>, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >>And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what >>condition he left it in. > >Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons and all >that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and rideshare vehicles as >"party cars" is just one of many foreseeable problems. You think nobody ever throws up in a taxi? These are not new problems. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 23:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <20210111232605.a2dc5c6403822e73332aeaec@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #216254 |
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:18:24 -0000 (UTC) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > In article <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com>, > Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: > >>And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what > >>condition he left it in. > > > >Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons > >and all that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and > >rideshare vehicles as "party cars" is just one of many foreseeable > >problems. > > You think nobody ever throws up in a taxi? These are not new problems. Easily solved too, internal cameras detect that a cleanup is needed and the car goes to where it can get one. If the last user made a big mess they get billed for the cleanup at an extortionate rate that may make them behave in future. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 18:50 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <50ppvfl1t78mabig6vdofb3nkci8oijbpn@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #216254 |
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:18:24 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >In article <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com>, >Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >>>And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what >>>condition he left it in. >> >>Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons and all >>that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and rideshare vehicles as >>"party cars" is just one of many foreseeable problems. > >You think nobody ever throws up in a taxi? These are not new problems. But you're trying to argue that people will put up with that rather than have their own cars just because the taxi doesn't have a human driver.
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-12 21:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <5ffe173e.16802931@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #216254 |
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:18:24 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >In article <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com>, >Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >>>And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what >>>condition he left it in. >> >>Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons and all >>that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and rideshare vehicles as >>"party cars" is just one of many foreseeable problems. > >You think nobody ever throws up in a taxi? These are not new problems. Human-driven taxis don't have the same problem with being used as "party cars" the way an autonomous vehicle would. Anyway my point, before it gets lost in pedantry, is that somebody should tell the advocates of self-driving cars who think they are going to result in the wholesale elimination of private car ownership. They are the ones who seem to be ignoring these old problems.
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-12 15:48 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <s86svflmagd3r1out7vog7r7mpevn5h47s@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #216273 |
On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 21:41:05 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 22:18:24 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >>In article <5ffcc927.11751077@news.dslextreme.com>, >>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >>>>And then you have the issue of the last person to use the car and what >>>>condition he left it in. >>> >>>Almost always an issue with any shared resource. Tragedy of the commons and all >>>that. That some people will use self-driving taxis and rideshare vehicles as >>>"party cars" is just one of many foreseeable problems. >> >>You think nobody ever throws up in a taxi? These are not new problems. > >Human-driven taxis don't have the same problem with being used as "party cars" >the way an autonomous vehicle would. Some of my shipmates when I was in the US Navy would disagree with that claim. [snip] -- Jim
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 18:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <20210110181340.879485c50bde6031a198a39e@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #216187 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:29:33 -0500 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save > >a few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that > >would be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that > >no one would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by > >with a fifth of the number of cars we have today. > > I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would > have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable > state of affairs. Yep that's very overstated, I would expect self driving to reduce personal car ownership as that is already of marginal benefit for many city dwellers since not keeping a car in a city will pay for a lot of taxi rides and occasional car hires. Professional drivers (taxis, vans, trucks) stand to lose a lot of their jobs if self driving gets good enough (why pay a person to drive the HGV 8 hours a day when the automation will drive it 24 hours a day). Taxis would only need drivers if the passenger requests assistance. As for vans, I expect single pallet modules will turn up sooner or later. Rural public transport gets more viable if drivers don't have to be paid and fuel costs are down to electric levels. All this seems to me to be among the likely consequences of fully autonomous vehicles, but the end of personal car ownership - certainly not as long as a flash car is a status symbol and people stop liking to keep stuff handy in their car and people stop working out of their car and people stop living where cars are handy. > I know you have this rosy vision of there being an > unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away > from every point on Earth Well last time I was in Seattle there were a lot of instant hire cars all over the city centre, I'd guess they're dotted around the populous suburbs too (I had no occasion to look) but I'd be surprised if they were around at all in the rural areas. I'd expect self-driving hire cars to be similarly (un)available because the economics seem to be about the same. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 13:35 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <7llmvfdu2sd1gar5h7e7dp5ittpk7ijm40@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #216190 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:13:40 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:29:33 -0500 >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:07:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >As for the boon, well, better safety would be nice, it could save >> >a few lives or injuries, but at least at first I don't think that >> >would be substantial. What would be substantial is the fact that >> >no one would have to own a personal car. We could probably get by >> >with a fifth of the number of cars we have today. >> >> I don't know where people like you get the notion that "no one would >> have to own a personal car" or why you consider that to be a desirable >> state of affairs. > > Yep that's very overstated, I would expect self driving to reduce >personal car ownership as that is already of marginal benefit for many city >dwellers since not keeping a car in a city will pay for a lot of taxi rides >and occasional car hires. > > Professional drivers (taxis, vans, trucks) stand to lose a lot of >their jobs if self driving gets good enough (why pay a person to drive the >HGV 8 hours a day when the automation will drive it 24 hours a day). Taxis >would only need drivers if the passenger requests assistance. As for vans, >I expect single pallet modules will turn up sooner or later. Rural public >transport gets more viable if drivers don't have to be paid and fuel costs >are down to electric levels. > > All this seems to me to be among the likely consequences of fully >autonomous vehicles, but the end of personal car ownership - certainly not >as long as a flash car is a status symbol and people stop liking to keep >stuff handy in their car and people stop working out of their car and >people stop living where cars are handy. > >> I know you have this rosy vision of there being an >> unlimited number of unoccupied cars waiting in a queue seconda away >> from every point on Earth > > Well last time I was in Seattle there were a lot of instant hire >cars all over the city centre, I'd guess they're dotted around the populous >suburbs too (I had no occasion to look) but I'd be surprised if they were >around at all in the rural areas. I'd expect self-driving hire cars to be >similarly (un)available because the economics seem to be about the same. And one situation I see AI/hire cars being insufficient. During evacuations for natural disasters and prior to hurricane landfall. -- Jim
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 20:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? |
| Message-ID | <20210110202501.3567cae3ce5c111acc9f5f33@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #216198 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:35:17 -0600 JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote: > And one situation I see AI/hire cars being insufficient. During > evacuations for natural disasters and prior to hurricane landfall. Sufficient no, but if a "swarm to the affected area" could be achieved it might be helpful. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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