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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #215646 > unrolled thread

Adobe oddity?

Started bygareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
First post2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
Last post2020-12-29 13:06 -0600
Articles 20 on this page of 577 — 38 participants

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Contents

  Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 16:19 +0000
    Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 10:42 -0600
      Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 12:50 -0500
        Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 11:16 -0700
          Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-28 18:43 +0000
            Re: Adobe oddity? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 19:34 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 23:48 +0100
              Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-29 02:44 -0500
                Re: Adobe oddity? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-12-29 13:04 +0000
                Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:08 +0000
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-30 20:25 -0500
                Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:08 -0500
                    Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 12:58 -0500
                      Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:22 -0500
                        Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 15:10 -0500
                          Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:07 -0500
                            Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:15 -0500
                              Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:50 +0100
                          Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:48 +0000
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 17:05 +0000
                    car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-29 17:43 +0000
                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:00 -0500
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-29 20:05 +0000
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 16:01 -0500
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:24 -0500
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 23:36 +0000
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:58 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:45 +0000
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:38 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 13:28 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 06:02 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 08:50 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:14 -0500
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:40 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:43 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:15 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:43 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:56 -0500
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:17 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 18:16 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:46 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:54 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:09 -0600
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:46 -0600
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Leo <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-01-06 17:38 -0800
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-07 16:32 +0000
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:24 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-02 20:25 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 21:40 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 03:14 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:11 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 23:49 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:52 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:48 -0600
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:12 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:13 +0000
                                                      Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:21 -0500
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 19:22 +0000
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 00:01 +0000
                                                      Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
                                                        Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:28 -0500
                                                          Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 19:55 +0000
                                                            Re: the power and the screwups, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 21:11 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 15:51 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 19:29 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 14:48 -0600
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-04 21:22 +0000
                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 22:47 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:07 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:26 -0500
                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:15 +0000
                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:15 -0500
                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:04 +0000
                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-09 01:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 12:54 -0600
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-10 09:36 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0600
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:46 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-07 12:02 -0700
                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 05:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 17:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-09 19:19 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:02 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:22 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:24 -0500
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2021-01-10 06:31 -0600
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-10 13:25 -0600
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:20 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:38 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car directing, was charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:51 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-11 15:46 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:30 -0600
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-10 19:45 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:27 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 10:18 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 18:23 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:31 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 20:39 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 21:04 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 22:04 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:13 -0500
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:31 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:31 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:41 -0500
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:59 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-12 12:06 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:42 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:31 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:06 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:47 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-11 21:45 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-12 03:32 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:57 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:57 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 22:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:36 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:29 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-14 09:47 -0600
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:36 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-14 19:53 +0000
                                                                                        Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-14 21:23 +0000
                                                                                          Re: bad predictions, was autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 18:58 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:10 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 12:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:43 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-12 23:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:49 -0500
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Alfred Falk <aefalk@telus.net> - 2021-01-15 16:21 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 12:30 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-14 21:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-15 11:52 -0500
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:13 -0600
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-15 19:40 +0000
                                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:18 -0500
                                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 23:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:03 +0000
                                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-16 09:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:59 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-12 21:36 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-13 20:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-13 22:11 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car tricks, was charging usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:32 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-10 18:26 -0400
                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-10 20:00 -0500
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:16 -0700
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 20:35 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:19 -0600
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-15 21:21 +0000
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:35 -0600
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-16 20:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-17 11:49 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-17 17:59 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-17 21:43 +0000
                                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-19 11:32 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-15 21:35 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                        Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:17 +0000
                                                                          Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:58 -0500
                                                                            Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-12 19:52 +0000
                                                                              Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 16:27 -0500
                                                                                Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 16:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2021-01-13 16:48 -0500
                                                                                    Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 23:00 -0500
                                                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-14 22:52 +0000
                                                                                  Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-14 21:57 +0000
                                                      Re: autonomous car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 19:46 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:27 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 09:07 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 12:29 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:29 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:40 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-11 00:45 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:55 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 16:51 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 22:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-11 23:26 +0000
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:50 -0500
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-12 21:41 +0000
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 15:48 -0600
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:13 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 13:35 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 20:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:19 -0600
                                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 00:40 +0000
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:25 -0500
                                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 12:51 -0600
                                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-11 21:00 +0000
                                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-12 09:24 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:21 -0600
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-11 12:15 -0700
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 18:52 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-11 21:54 +0000
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-13 13:15 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 22:14 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:36 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-09 13:31 +0000
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:13 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:21 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 17:13 -0500
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:28 +0000
                                                          Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-07 12:24 +0000
                                                            Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 12:40 +0000
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:38 +0000
                                                                Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2021-01-09 02:56 +0000
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 22:02 -0500
                                                                    Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-10 11:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
                                                                      Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-11 08:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-11 15:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:16 +0000
                                                                  Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:56 +0000
                                                            Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 11:46 -0500
                                                              Re: how not do self-drive, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-07 01:41 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-07 07:32 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 14:06 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:51 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:43 -0500
                                                    Re: dim bulbs, not car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:35 +0000
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:16 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 23:55 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 15:55 -0500
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 02:25 -0400
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:31 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-06 17:04 +0000
                                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-07 21:32 +0000
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:37 -0500
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 17:59 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:24 -0500
                                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 22:37 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-07 23:05 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-01-08 20:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 16:01 -0500
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 17:09 -0500
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:34 -0600
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-08 20:41 +0000
                                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-11 21:19 +0000
                                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:45 -0500
                                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-08 18:12 -0700
                                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 20:42 -0500
                                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:09 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 13:30 -0500
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-03 21:35 +0000
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-03 22:13 +0000
                                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 20:07 -0500
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:41 -0600
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-02 20:47 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 17:37 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-01 19:24 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 00:36 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:24 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 03:55 +0000
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 23:29 -0500
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:53 +0100
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:06 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:38 +0100
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:02 +0200
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:22 -0500
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 02:12 +0200
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-31 01:34 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-12-31 11:53 +0000
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 10:13 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:20 +0200
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:23 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:42 -0500
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:26 +0200
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 13:39 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:29 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:35 +0200
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:35 -0600
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:59 -0500
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 15:23 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:05 -0500
                                              Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:26 +0000
                                                Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 23:12 -0500
                                                  Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-01 04:41 +0000
                                                Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                                  Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 15:17 -0600
                                                    Re: thar she blows, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 21:46 -0500
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-01 11:12 -0700
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-01 13:29 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 08:54 -0500
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-05 17:35 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 11:38 -0600
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:26 -0600
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:38 +0200
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-02 23:25 -0500
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 11:12 -0600
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 12:34 -0600
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 18:47 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 14:03 -0600
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:16 +0000
                                          Re: polish enigmas, car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-01 02:33 +0000
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:32 -0600
                                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-01 19:22 +0000
                                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 11:26 +0000
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 09:44 -0600
                                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-02 16:50 +0000
                                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 08:07 -0700
                                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-01-02 19:00 +0000
                                              Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-02 19:13 +0000
                                                Re: bombes, was car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:53 -0500
                                              Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-03 19:44 +0000
                                                Re: Enigma and early computers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-01-03 16:03 -0600
                                                  Re: Enigma and early computers antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-01-04 01:06 +0000
                                                Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-03 22:46 +0000
                                                  Re: memories of Enigma and early computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-04 10:07 +0000
                                                    Re: memories of Enigma and early computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 18:57 +0000
                                                Re: Enigma and early computers Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-01-04 21:07 -0500
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:36 +0200
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-02 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-03 11:50 +0000
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:08 +0000
                          Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-29 21:35 +0000
                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-29 22:51 +0100
                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 12:56 +0100
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 13:12 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:41 +0100
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 18:15 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-30 13:58 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-30 15:10 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 15:42 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2020-12-30 16:21 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 12:13 +0000
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:43 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-30 19:00 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:11 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:08 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:54 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 21:55 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-12-31 12:50 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:50 -0500
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-01 21:44 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:22 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:48 -0500
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:59 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:03 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 17:58 +0000
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:25 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 14:54 -0700
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:15 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 17:07 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 22:58 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 18:13 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 11:27 -0600
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-12-31 18:40 -0500
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-01 11:05 +0000
                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 15:19 +0200
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 14:44 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:06 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 15:13 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:29 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:14 -0600
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:34 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:42 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:07 +0100
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:31 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:44 +0100
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-31 21:35 +0100
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 16:08 -0500
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:16 +0100
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:25 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:27 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:00 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:20 -0600
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-31 19:03 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 15:38 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:44 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:30 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:06 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-30 16:41 +0200
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-12-30 14:46 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 05:56 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:37 -0500
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 13:12 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:09 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-06 18:41 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:29 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 12:11 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 18:01 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 15:11 -0500
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 20:38 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 16:45 -0500
                                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 22:28 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:33 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:26 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-30 19:08 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 02:50 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 10:13 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:12 +0100
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 15:27 -0600
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 22:57 +0100
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:27 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-30 18:33 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 14:19 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-03 21:27 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-03 19:57 -0500
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 03:00 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2021-01-04 13:58 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:33 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 13:00 -0500
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:35 -0500
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:46 -0500
                                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 23:11 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 12:06 -0700
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 20:00 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-01-04 22:15 +0100
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-04 21:29 +0000
                                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-01-06 03:10 -0400
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:57 -0600
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-05 11:59 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-07 21:48 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 10:44 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 07:23 -0500
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-12-30 16:46 -0400
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 22:16 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 21:45 +0100
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 14:51 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:14 +0100
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-31 01:54 +0200
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:24 -0500
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2021-01-02 17:17 +0200
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 15:55 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 16:29 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 17:08 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2021-01-02 19:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-02 20:05 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-02-02 03:20 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 19:34 -0700
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-01-04 03:25 +0000
                                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-09 08:51 +0000
                                                Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-07 16:33 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:46 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 12:44 -0500
                                  Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-31 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-31 16:55 -0500
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-12-31 22:23 +0000
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-31 21:43 -0600
                                      Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2021-01-06 06:04 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-06 07:39 -0500
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 13:31 +0000
                                          Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:41 +0000
                                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-07 09:18 +0000
                                              Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                        Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-06 06:37 -0700
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-31 21:44 +0000
                                    Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-01-01 15:35 +0200
                            Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:30 -0500
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 14:18 -0700
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:26 -0500
                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 18:18 +0000
                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
                          Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 14:59 -0500
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-29 21:50 +0000
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:52 +0000
                            Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 06:48 +0000
                              Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 11:16 -0500
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-12-30 16:54 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
                                Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 17:18 +0000
                                  Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 20:25 +0100
                                    Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 20:54 +0000
                                      Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-30 23:08 +0100
                                        Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-12-30 23:01 +0000
                Re: Adobe oddity? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-12-29 19:28 -0600
        Re: Adobe oddity? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 19:37 +0000
        Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 15:00 -0500
          Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:53 -0700
            Re: Adobe oddity? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 19:00 -0500
            Re: Adobe oddity? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-12-29 09:40 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 15:01 +0200
                Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-29 07:36 -0700
                  Re: Adobe oddity? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 10:10 -0500
                    Re: Adobe oddity? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-12-29 18:11 +0200
            Re: Adobe oddity? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-12-29 13:18 +0000
            Re: Adobe oddity? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
              Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 17:16 -0600
        Re: Adobe oddity? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-28 21:43 +0000
          Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-12-28 22:18 +0000
            Re: Flash is dead, Adobe oddity? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-12-28 22:30 +0000
    Re: Adobe oddity? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-12-28 20:24 +0100
      Re: Adobe oddity? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-28 15:52 -0700
        Re: Adobe oddity? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 13:06 -0600

Page 28 of 29 — ← Prev page 1 … 26 27 [28] 29  Next page →


#215832 — Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAnssi Saari <as@sci.fi>
Date2021-01-01 15:35 +0200
SubjectRe: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<sm0a6ts93w0.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi>
In reply to#215795
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> I worry about wireless energy. There’s now talk about large solar arrays in
> orbit beaming power back to earth.

I remember reading about that from a cereal box when I was a kid. Pretty
picture with cows on a pasture and the fence around them acting as the
antenna. It would probably need cheap space capability which we don't
have. Probably has the same timetable as working fusion to me. 

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#215695 — Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-12-29 17:30 -0500
SubjectRe: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<fabnufphtpqnsvmnth8icv20e0a60ldm3o@4ax.com>
In reply to#215688
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:35:26 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/12/2020 20:05, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Never mind overloading the grid with something it was never designed
>> for, by a large factor.
>
>And that's the kicker.
>
>Worst case the grid in the UK has to fire up all its open cycle gas 
>turbines, all its coal stations, and still import power from Europe to 
>keep things running. Even though all the "interruptible" heavy users 
>have been told to shut down.
>
>It happenned earlier this winter - a windless day over the whole of the 
>UK, and of course being winter it's dark a lot, so solar is doing 3/5ths 
>of FA. Especially at the usual peak which is when people get home from 
>work, put on the heating and start cooking.
>
>Luckily the calm area didn't cover the rest of Europe - which 
>occasionally it does.
>
>There just isn't the spare _generation_ capacity in the UK to feed 
>widespread adoption of electric cars.
>
>I'll be surprised if the situation is different anywhere else. In 2018 
>Wiki tells me the US used about 4000TWh of electricity. That's about 
>1.4E19 joules.
>
>It also used 142.71 billion gallons of gasoline at 120k BTu per gallon 
>(why can't you go metric) which is about 1.8E19 joules.
>
>So more was used in gasoline than the entire electric output of the 
>country. Does the generation system have that much headroom? And would 
>it help much to burn the oil in power stations, not cars?

Do-gooders will tell you that power stations are cleaner than cars.
What those same do-gooders don't seem to grasp is that to hit the IPCC
goals we can't just make something 5 or 10 percent more efficient, we
have to end the emission entirely.  

And if every car in the US was electric and every one was plugged into
a level 2 charger at the same time, that would draw twice the current
installed generating capacity in the US.

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#215687 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-12-29 14:18 -0700
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<320937953.630969245.408479.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#215676
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
> 
>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>> 
>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from orange
>>> Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power distribution
>>> capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for all certainly in
>>> the right ballpark.
>> 
>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
> 
> Without looking anything up, I think you're right.
> But just about every road has power lines running down at least one side
> of the road.
> 
> Should be trivial to provide charging stations just about everywhere.
> For sure, heavier power lines will be needed as this goes on.
> I still don't see a problem.
> 
> Before the lithium battery revolution started I always thought we'd see
> either overhead or in the road charging strips that cars could hook up
> to at speed.  Now it doesn't look that will ever be necessary.
> 

It would just  seem like before the government starts pushing everyone
toward electric cars they’d have a plan for installing enough charging
stations. This sounds like their ”plan” for COVID vaccinations, i.e. grand
vision but few details.

-- 
Pete

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#215694 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-12-29 17:26 -0500
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<u5bnufpudsmvjm4rffqt0dh8ng8hob3u9b@4ax.com>
In reply to#215687
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:18:46 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>> 
>>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from orange
>>>> Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power distribution
>>>> capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for all certainly in
>>>> the right ballpark.
>>> 
>>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
>> 
>> Without looking anything up, I think you're right.
>> But just about every road has power lines running down at least one side
>> of the road.
>> 
>> Should be trivial to provide charging stations just about everywhere.
>> For sure, heavier power lines will be needed as this goes on.
>> I still don't see a problem.
>> 
>> Before the lithium battery revolution started I always thought we'd see
>> either overhead or in the road charging strips that cars could hook up
>> to at speed.  Now it doesn't look that will ever be necessary.
>> 
>
>It would just  seem like before the government starts pushing everyone
>toward electric cars they’d have a plan for installing enough charging
>stations. This sounds like their ”plan” for COVID vaccinations, i.e. grand
>vision but few details.

Bingo.  And cost doesn't matter because it's "only money".  People who
say that have never had a bill they couldn't afford to pay.

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#215677 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-12-29 18:18 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20201229181838.d062bb547776e8a1a2e9bafa@eircom.net>
In reply to#215674
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
> Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> 
> >	If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can
> >	be
> >provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from
> >orange Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power
> >distribution capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for
> >all certainly in the right ballpark.
> 
> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
> 
> That overhead streetlight was using, perhaps, 200 watts (usually less)
> of high pressure sodium.  Now down to, maybe, 75 watts LED.

	I rather thought they were taking a lot more than that when they
were running sodium - seems not. Fair enough.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215680 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-12-29 19:50 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rsg19i2cct@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#215677
On 2020-12-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>> Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>> 
>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from
>>> orange Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power
>>> distribution capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for
>>> all certainly in the right ballpark.
>> 
>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
>> 
>> That overhead streetlight was using, perhaps, 200 watts (usually less)
>> of high pressure sodium.  Now down to, maybe, 75 watts LED.
>
> 	I rather thought they were taking a lot more than that when they
> were running sodium - seems not. Fair enough.

Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215682 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-12-29 14:59 -0500
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rg2nufppvu97ufj51g26iksc5rfn6eq0vg@4ax.com>
In reply to#215680
On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2020-12-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>> Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from
>>>> orange Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power
>>>> distribution capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for
>>>> all certainly in the right ballpark.
>>> 
>>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
>>> 
>>> That overhead streetlight was using, perhaps, 200 watts (usually less)
>>> of high pressure sodium.  Now down to, maybe, 75 watts LED.
>>
>> 	I rather thought they were taking a lot more than that when they
>> were running sodium - seems not. Fair enough.
>
>Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
>wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
>No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)

Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  

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#215691 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-12-29 21:50 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20201229215051.3058bdef98326debf060c532@eircom.net>
In reply to#215682
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:59:47 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
> >Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
> >wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
> >No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)
> 
> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  

	Possibly slightly fewer lumens - but in a decent spectrum which aids
visibility a lot more than the spiky spectrum of sodium lights.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215734 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-12-30 16:52 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<3f2HH.54229$R82.47748@fx46.iad>
In reply to#215691
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:59:47 -0500
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
>> >wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
>> >No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)
>> 
>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  
>
>	Possibly slightly fewer lumens - but in a decent spectrum which aids
>visibility a lot more than the spiky spectrum of sodium lights.

And they're far more directional.   I used to have Na vapor in a light
a block away that would shine through the window at night.  The replacement
LED illuminates only the street and sidewalks, not houses a block away.

As this was in San Jose, and San Jose used sodium vapor lights because
of the nearby Mt Hamilton observatory, the switch to more directional
lighting allowed the use of white streetlights instead of the yellow.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215702 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-12-30 06:48 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rsh7sn0dhh@news2.newsguy.com>
In reply to#215682
On 2020-12-29, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2020-12-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
>>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>> Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from
>>>>> orange Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power
>>>>> distribution capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for
>>>>> all certainly in the right ballpark.
>>>> 
>>>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
>>>> 
>>>> That overhead streetlight was using, perhaps, 200 watts (usually less)
>>>> of high pressure sodium.  Now down to, maybe, 75 watts LED.
>>>
>>> 	I rather thought they were taking a lot more than that when they
>>> were running sodium - seems not. Fair enough.
>>
>> Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
>> wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
>> No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)
>
> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  

Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced.  And the light is white,
rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.

I calculated that thanks to their lower power consumption, our hydro bills
will decrease enough that the LEDs will pay for themselves in 10 years.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215729 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-12-30 11:16 -0500
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<or9puf9ho0c4uirisd1nur5q58ipds7j4p@4ax.com>
In reply to#215702
On 30 Dec 2020 06:48:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2020-12-29, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2020-12-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
>>>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In <20201229170525.21042bc3decd06daf81e04f0@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
>>>>> Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have a place to park the car then a charging station can be
>>>>>> provided there. The reduced power consumption of street lights from
>>>>>> orange Sodium to white LED probably means there's nearly enough power
>>>>>> distribution capacity in urban streets to provide low rate chargers for
>>>>>> all certainly in the right ballpark.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ummm...  you're off by quite a large margin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That overhead streetlight was using, perhaps, 200 watts (usually less)
>>>>> of high pressure sodium.  Now down to, maybe, 75 watts LED.
>>>>
>>>> 	I rather thought they were taking a lot more than that when they
>>>> were running sodium - seems not. Fair enough.
>>>
>>> Sounds about right to me.  We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
>>> wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
>>> No plans for charging stations, though.  :-)
>>
>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  
>
>Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
>light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced.  And the light is white,
>rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.

Is that measured output or subjective impression?  Not
arguing--curious.  When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
research has been at best casual.

>I calculated that thanks to their lower power consumption, our hydro bills
>will decrease enough that the LEDs will pay for themselves in 10 years.

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#215735 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-12-30 16:54 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<Jg2HH.54271$R82.10591@fx46.iad>
In reply to#215729
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>On 30 Dec 2020 06:48:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2020-12-29, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  
>>
>>Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
>>light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced.  And the light is white,
>>rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.
>
>Is that measured output or subjective impression?  Not
>arguing--curious.  When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
>equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
>research has been at best casual.

Subjectively, the LED lights are brighter than the sodiums.  Primarily
because most of light is directed downwards with the LEDs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215754 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-12-30 19:27 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<rsikbb026ub@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#215735
On 2020-12-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 30 Dec 2020 06:48:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-12-29, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?  
>>>
>>> Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
>>> light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced.  And the light is white,
>>> rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.
>>
>> Is that measured output or subjective impression?  Not
>> arguing--curious.  When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
>> equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
>> research has been at best casual.

It's strictly subjective.  They look about the same to us.
That might be because in the white light it's easier to see things.

> Subjectively, the LED lights are brighter than the sodiums.  Primarily
> because most of light is directed downwards with the LEDs.

In our case the wall packs (when off) look identical.
Same manufacturer, same housing, just different guts.

Here's a link to what looks like our old sodium units:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-70-Watt-High-Pressure-Sodium-Black-Wall-Pack-Light-OWP-70S-120-P-LP-BZ-M6/202193062

... and the new LED units:
https://www.grainger.com/product/LITHONIA-LIGHTING-LED-Wall-Pack-489F05

They state that the sodium unit produces 3000 lumens, vs. 2100 for
the LED unit.  Rated lifetime is 10,000 hours for the sodium lamp,
vs. 100,000 hours for the LED unit.  Our sodium units, installed
in 2005, were starting to fail a couple of years ago; it wasn't
just lamps, but ballasts were dying too.

We had infant mortality on three LEDs.  You've probably seen the
failure mode on early high-powered LED fixtures: flickering or
flashing.  A couple of our units were doing a good imitation of
a strobe, while the third died completely.  The supplier replaced
them with no questions asked, and we've had no further problems.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#215738 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-12-30 17:18 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20201230171803.9c79611cfaf770a5ddb8c677@eircom.net>
In reply to#215729
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is that measured output or subjective impression?  Not
> arguing--curious.  When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
> equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
> research has been at best casual.

	The best efficiency of LED and sodium is about equal (LED is
slightly ahead) at the bulb level. At the system level LEDs pull well ahead
in efficiency but not so far that a 25 Watt LED produces anything like the
same lumens as a 75 Watt sodium light it might get half way there on a good
day.

	However the sodium light produces the worst CRI of any common light
source (it's not quite monochrome but it might as well be for all
practical purposes). It takes a lot of light to (not really) make up for the
crappy spectrum so you see better with a lower power white light than a
higher power sodium light.

	There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium because
they can see more clearly.

	The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things - I'm
seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95 CRI strips.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#215751 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2020-12-30 20:25 +0100
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<cq0vbh-2eu.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#215738
On 30/12/2020 18.18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> 	There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
> react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium because
> they can see more clearly.
> 
> 	The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things - I'm
> seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95 CRI strips.

95? I can hardly get 90% lamps.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#215763 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-12-30 20:54 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20201230205459.9cf2114fe8e87a1356145c73@eircom.net>
In reply to#215751
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:25:32 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/12/2020 18.18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
> > J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > 	There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
> > react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium
> > because they can see more clearly.
> > 
> > 	The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things -
> > I'm seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95
> > CRI strips.
> 
> 95? I can hardly get 90% lamps.

	These are the ones I have in mind, but there are a lot of 95+ CRI
LEDs on the market now including some quaint[1] incandescent lookalikes with
long thin LEDs sort of looking like filaments.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/MARSWALLED-SMD5630-300LEDs-Daylight-Flexible/dp/B07GBQ5MKL/

[1] I find it amusing the way each generation of lighting technology starts
by trying to look like the last before settling down to take advantage of
not doing so. I've always hated standard light fittings dangling from a
cable with a shade (that immediately tells you there's a design error)
collecting dust and always in the wrong place, so this place has long
glowing strips instead - high light levels without bright spots.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#215771 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2020-12-30 23:08 +0100
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<fcavbh-b56.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#215763
On 30/12/2020 21.54, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:25:32 +0100
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 30/12/2020 18.18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> 	There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
>>> react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium
>>> because they can see more clearly.
>>>
>>> 	The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things -
>>> I'm seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95
>>> CRI strips.
>>
>> 95? I can hardly get 90% lamps.
> 
> 	These are the ones I have in mind, but there are a lot of 95+ CRI
> LEDs on the market now including some quaint[1] incandescent lookalikes with
> long thin LEDs sort of looking like filaments.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.co.uk/MARSWALLED-SMD5630-300LEDs-Daylight-Flexible/dp/B07GBQ5MKL/

I have not seen "lots", I have seen "some".


The link says:

 * Length: 5M/Reel. LED Emitters (per 5m length):300leds. Lumens:
120-140lm/W. Voltage:DC12V. Power Consumption (per 5m length): 30-60W
(varies depending on power supply voltage and working current). Emitter
Type:SMD5630. Package include: 1 x 5M LED Strip Light (without power
supply)


What it doesn't say is how many Lumens per meter.

The power consumption varies a lot, 30 to 60W just for 5 metres. That's
a lot of variance and a lot of power.



> 
> [1] I find it amusing the way each generation of lighting technology starts
> by trying to look like the last before settling down to take advantage of
> not doing so. I've always hated standard light fittings dangling from a
> cable with a shade (that immediately tells you there's a design error)
> collecting dust and always in the wrong place, so this place has long
> glowing strips instead - high light levels without bright spots.

Not a bad idea.

I use led "bulbs" simply because the fixtures are already there and it
is easier to replace the bulbs that the whole lot. Probably true for
many people. When I do replace a fixture, I like flat panels.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#215775 — Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-12-30 23:01 +0000
SubjectRe: car charging, was: Adobe oddity?
Message-ID<20201230230123.187bdd498bb086c011090b65@eircom.net>
In reply to#215771
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 23:08:47 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> The link says:
> 
>  * Length: 5M/Reel. LED Emitters (per 5m length):300leds. Lumens:
> 120-140lm/W. Voltage:DC12V. Power Consumption (per 5m length): 30-60W
> (varies depending on power supply voltage and working current). Emitter
> Type:SMD5630. Package include: 1 x 5M LED Strip Light (without power
> supply)
> 
> 
> What it doesn't say is how many Lumens per meter.

	You can do sums :)

> The power consumption varies a lot, 30 to 60W just for 5 metres. That's

	The variance in power consumption is simple - if you power a 5m
length from one end then the drop along the strip will leave it pulling
just 30 watts, but if you power each metre separately then the vast
majority of the drop will be in the resistors where it belongs and you will
get 12 watts per metre so 1440-1680 lumens per metre when properly supplied
and half that when powered from one end of a 5m strip.

> a lot of variance and a lot of power.

	Indeed, my kitchen (25 square metres or so) is very well lit by 60
watts of LED strips at a somewhat lower power density of 5W/m. I'm thinking
more in terms of task lighting with shortish lengths of these high CRI, high
output strips.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#215701

FromDave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
Date2020-12-29 19:28 -0600
Message-ID<33928cc4-4304-5464-fa61-c55a24b829d0@wizinfo.com>
In reply to#215662
On 12/29/2020 1:44 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> People in North America might not have experienced the air pollution by
> Diesel cars, as there were only a few manufacturers (or was it even only
> Volkswagen?) offering Diesel vehicles.

Diesels were offered by a number of companies, including some US 
makers. But they were never popular here (partly due to our domestic 
fuel quality and availability, partly because some of the 
US-manufactured engines were terrible).

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#215652

Fromgareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
Date2020-12-28 19:37 +0000
Message-ID<rsdc6o$6dd$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#215648
On 28/12/2020 17:50, Dan Espen wrote:
> I'm not sure they think they can fix it.
> I believe Flash has been a security risk more than once.
> I'm pretty sure HTML5 is an adequate replacement.

Even so, no reason to kill it and thereby destroy
historical sites.

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