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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #210335 > unrolled thread

Re: IBM system/360 ad

Started byrobin.vowels@gmail.com
First post2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
Last post2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 590 — 35 participants

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Contents

  Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-08 16:50 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 13:19 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-09 12:16 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 16:35 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 19:41 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-10 12:29 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 19:02 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:46 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:07 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:10 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 01:06 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:33 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 22:46 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:18 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-11 19:49 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 13:11 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:42 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-12 22:11 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 23:49 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-03-13 08:36 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-11 22:17 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 16:47 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:40 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:32 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 18:17 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:03 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-12 15:29 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-12 19:38 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-03-13 18:07 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-13 11:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:31 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 01:34 +0000
              Re: IBM system/360-30 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-13 00:19 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-13 00:26 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:38 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 21:38 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 12:11 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:11 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:13 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:54 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 12:04 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 10:31 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:11 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
                  Re: IBM 1130, system John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-12 23:51 +0000
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:09 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:29 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:35 -0400
                          RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-24 23:03 +0000
                            Re: RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 07:26 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:12 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 11:29 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:34 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:01 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:39 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:15 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:24 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:50 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:34 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:53 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 23:14 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:28 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:01 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 11:31 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 10:11 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 13:26 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:23 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 14:35 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 12:08 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 15:13 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:28 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:33 +0100
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:47 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 11:10 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 08:15 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 14:51 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 16:20 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:24 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 16:46 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-26 19:52 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:00 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-08-27 14:11 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:21 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:38 +0100
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-27 11:39 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 13:38 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 12:03 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:11 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 21:17 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-26 12:13 -0500
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:27 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 17:21 +0100
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:37 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-26 04:07 -0500
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:02 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:29 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 20:20 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:45 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:31 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:54 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:33 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:44 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:31 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 19:16 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:55 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:52 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:02 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 13:13 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-23 07:37 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-23 01:00 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 12:22 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-23 20:49 +0100
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:05 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:25 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:18 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:08 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 03:46 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:09 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:44 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:29 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 19:37 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 21:52 +0100
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:44 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-26 12:21 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 15:15 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:42 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-27 09:43 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 22:27 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:38 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 18:09 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-26 00:12 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 20:35 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 11:18 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:40 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:26 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:26 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:44 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:56 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 09:41 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:28 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:52 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:16 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-25 12:56 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:40 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:58 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:48 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:26 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 19:07 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 06:55 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:23 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 14:33 -0400
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 23:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:39 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:13 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 20:09 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:11 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:34 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:49 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-26 22:28 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:49 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:49 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 19:39 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:42 -0700
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:21 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-01 19:17 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:22 -0700
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-02 08:42 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-03 05:37 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 02:22 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 09:48 +0000
                                                        Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 17:55 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 19:31 +0100
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:13 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:24 -0700
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:30 +0000
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:08 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:21 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 05:51 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 06:34 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:13 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:10 -0500
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 05:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:16 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:07 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0600
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 19:20 +0000
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 19:12 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 11:59 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:11 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 14:05 +0000
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-02 16:34 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:35 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 23:59 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 13:39 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> - 2020-09-03 18:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:45 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:26 -0500
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 20:49 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:37 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:27 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 07:05 +0100
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-09-03 12:29 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:26 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:11 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Richard Thiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2020-09-03 14:20 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 19:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:38 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 19:04 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 10:55 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 14:02 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:11 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 17:45 +0100
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:10 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:22 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 09:53 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:19 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:52 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:04 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 07:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 09:15 -0400
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-03 13:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:04 -0400
                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 05:48 +0000
                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:07 -0400
                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 14:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:07 -0400
                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 19:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:12 -0400
                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 20:34 +0000
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:53 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 21:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-05 12:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:41 -0400
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:00 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 18:09 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:41 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:10 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:04 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-08 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-09 13:17 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:34 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:37 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:56 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-05 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:23 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:37 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:57 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 17:09 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:05 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:32 -0500
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:08 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 00:05 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:48 +0000
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 07:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:09 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:00 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:45 -0500
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:37 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:59 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:22 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 16:02 -0700
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 19:43 -0400
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:13 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:47 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 12:21 +0100
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 21:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:01 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:16 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-02 16:14 +0200
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 07:20 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:36 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:19 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:25 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 14:43 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:40 -0400
                                                Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 06:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:36 +0000
                                                      Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:54 +0000
                                                        Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 22:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 06:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 16:48 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 23:53 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 20:33 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 02:46 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 23:08 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 19:30 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:00 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:27 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 21:01 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 22:51 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360/20, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 01:24 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:19 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 19:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:47 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 14:16 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 03:32 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:11 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 19:41 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 08:58 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 17:27 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 01:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 20:26 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 20:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 21:21 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 16:34 +0000
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:13 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 06:34 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-01 16:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:07 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 19:38 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:41 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:22 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:23 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:21 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 09:41 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:24 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 15:07 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 22:21 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 07:20 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 00:56 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:46 -0700
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:15 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 21:47 -0400
                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 02:40 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 00:04 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:24 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-27 15:55 +0100
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 11:14 -0400
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:30 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-27 23:24 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:38 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:44 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 10:59 -0400
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 10:15 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:05 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 19:37 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:05 -0400
                                                Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:30 +0000
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:40 +0000
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:03 -0400
                                                      Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 14:01 +0000
                                                Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:33 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-30 11:09 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:18 -0700
                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:58 +0000
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-31 17:17 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 19:58 +0000
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 09:39 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 04:10 -0700
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 08:19 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-01 18:08 +0000
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:04 -0400
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:13 -0700
                                                                  Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:52 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 00:06 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:05 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 22:32 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:51 +0000
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 23:52 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:58 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:18 -0400
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:28 -0400
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 15:50 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-31 17:24 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:19 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2020-08-28 18:58 +0100
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:21 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:05 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:39 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:18 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 21:39 -0400
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-08-30 11:51 +0000
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:06 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:36 -0400
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 10:43 -0400
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 11:49 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:10 -0400
                                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:33 -0400
                                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 15:03 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-30 16:37 +0000
                                                    Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 16:55 +0000
                                                      Re: Home made card reader J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:20 -0400
                                                        Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 17:23 +0000
                                                          Re: Home made card reader Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 16:38 -0700
                                                            Re: Home made card reader John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 00:27 +0000
                                                            Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-31 09:34 +0000
                                                              Re: Home made card reader usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
                                                                Re: Home made card reader Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-02 08:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: Home made card reader Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:04 -0700
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:19 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-31 07:23 +0100
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 20:34 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:37 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:40 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:31 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:06 +0000
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:40 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:06 -0400
                                            Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:41 +0000
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:28 -0400
                                                Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 18:10 +0000
                                                  Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:25 -0400
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:26 +0000
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:03 -0400
                                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:03 -0700
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-04 23:34 -0700
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:02 -0400
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:32 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-04 18:11 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-29 01:04 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:14 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:35 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 12:13 -0400
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-28 07:00 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:17 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:24 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:04 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:07 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:20 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:28 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-29 12:31 +0000
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-29 23:58 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:10 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 05:21 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                          Re: flaming, not at all KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:15 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:45 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 20:28 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:11 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 14:28 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 19:39 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:59 -0400
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:25 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:28 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:28 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:40 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 18:56 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:39 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:34 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:44 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:36 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:11 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:25 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:32 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:36 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 05:10 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:20 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:31 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:42 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Stoat <fake@fake.org> - 2020-08-28 15:49 +1200
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:06 +0100
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:03 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:27 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 14:47 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-03-11 15:05 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-11 16:33 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 14:57 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 19:59 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 17:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 20:57 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:15 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-10 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:32 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:52 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:27 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-14 13:40 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-14 09:01 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 12:36 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-15 21:58 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 12:57 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 17:39 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 15:29 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:33 -0400
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-03-11 21:23 -0500
        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 20:50 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 09:34 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:55 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:05 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700

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#213696 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-03 19:11 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<umt2lf1s10n6lm2hctso528i246g11789r@4ax.com>
In reply to#213692
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 22:45:48 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
wrote:

>In article <nqb2lfh6ihj73ea3pgfrcbqtfnpkmclsnh@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The killer app is databases. ...
>
>>The problem with those ports though is generally not that the server
>>farm is incapable of handling the workload, the problem is that the
>>programming staff available is incapable of porting the code, usually
>>because it is far less well documented than anyone realizes or wants
>>to believe and the people who actually know how it works are long
>>since moved on to other companies, retired and not interested in
>>coming back, or, increasingly, dead of old age.
>
>That's certainly part of the problem, but there's also the important
>problem that a dozen small databases can't do all ths things that
>one large one can.

Which is why the Data Science people are trying to pull everything out
of all the tiny little databases on the mainframe and consolidate it
into one somewhat less tiny one in the Cloud.  Sorry, but breaking
some imaginary huge database into tiny ones that the PC can handle may
be an issue somewhere, but it's not an issue in our shop.

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#213618 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-09-02 17:45 +0100
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<20200902174516.b5cd2ec34b159312c78f70fb@eircom.net>
In reply to#213599
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 14:05:44 -0000 (UTC)
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:59:26 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
> ><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> 
> >>People do run Linux on zSystem machines.  I guess they must really 
> >>like hideously expensive PCs, then.
> >
> > Apparently they do.  We have it, various people have played with it,
> > no useful code that I am aware of has been produced.
> 
> There are two possiblilities

	There are more.

> a) IBM and a lot their customers like to waste time and money
> 
> b) You're not aware of everything that people do with Linux
>    on a zSystem.

c) There exist customers who have a zSystem and support contract, who do
not have an x86 blade farm or anyone who knows how to set one up and
maintain it and who also want to run some of their workload on Linux.

d) There exist customers to whom having IBM supported Linux is worth more
than the hardware cost savings they might achieve.

	Go on somebody think of another.

> My guess would be on b).

	AIUI c) is quite common.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#213600 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-02 10:10 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<rio947$onu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213590
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:59:26 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
> <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> If you want to port Gnu Fortran to MVS go right ahead.
>>
>>zOS has a POSIX subsystem, so it should be possible to port gcc
>>(and thus gfortran) to it.  IBM has people working on the S/390
>>port of gcc, so they could do it if they wanted to.
>
> Being able to compile standalone code is not helpful on a Z.  There's
> an ecosystem.  Part of our admin system is in COBOL, part is in C,
> part is in FORTRAN, and it's all tied into CICS.  If you haven't
> fitted gnu Fortran into that ecosystem you haven't done anything that
> is particularly helpful.

Why couldn't the Fortran be a compute step in a batch job stream
or a callable sub?  I don't have much experience with CICS but I've used
a lot of IMS DC/DB.  I don't see why Fortran couldn't do that stuff too
but since Fortran's forte is computing, I don't see why it would need to.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#213608 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-02 12:22 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<gfhvkft3v9k0ted0r3prvinqhpeo5jmt9n@4ax.com>
In reply to#213600
On Wed, 02 Sep 2020 10:10:15 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:59:26 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>> <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>
>>>> If you want to port Gnu Fortran to MVS go right ahead.
>>>
>>>zOS has a POSIX subsystem, so it should be possible to port gcc
>>>(and thus gfortran) to it.  IBM has people working on the S/390
>>>port of gcc, so they could do it if they wanted to.
>>
>> Being able to compile standalone code is not helpful on a Z.  There's
>> an ecosystem.  Part of our admin system is in COBOL, part is in C,
>> part is in FORTRAN, and it's all tied into CICS.  If you haven't
>> fitted gnu Fortran into that ecosystem you haven't done anything that
>> is particularly helpful.
>
>Why couldn't the Fortran be a compute step in a batch job stream
>or a callable sub?  I don't have much experience with CICS but I've used
>a lot of IMS DC/DB.  I don't see why Fortran couldn't do that stuff too
>but since Fortran's forte is computing, I don't see why it would need to.

We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?

As for why it would need to, if you don't need to talk to CICS then
you don't need a Z to begin with.

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#213613 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-09-02 09:53 -0700
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<77430672.620758292.849794.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213608
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?

you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.

-- 
Pete

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#213623 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-02 15:19 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<4vrvkftvdpgueootnvi3tsoja6495ihnjs@4ax.com>
In reply to#213613
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
>> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?
>
>you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.

So what justifies the effort?  And what do you tell management when
production goes down because you hacked up an open source compiler to
avoid using the IBM compiler?

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#213628 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-02 20:52 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<rip0mj$vna$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213623
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
>>> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?
>>
>>you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.

Actually, the effort for the compiler itself would probably not
be too bad.  Somebody would have to write a machine description
for z/OS with its calling conventions etc.  The assembly instructions
are already there, in the existing S/390 port.

Where things could get a little funny is the I/O part of the
library.  Fortran has a record-oriented I/O structure (except for
that newfangled stream stuff), but the underlying library is
very much oriented towards as "stream of bytes" model.

> So what justifies the effort?

Fortran 90 has been released as a standard for 29 years, Fortran 77
for 42 years.  In other words, Fortran 90 has been around for 70%
of the time that Fortran 90 has been around.

The language has expanded enormously in capabilities and, more
importantly, error checking.  One example: It makes a big difference
if you have to pass the bounds and size of every array manually, or
if you can just pass one argument, and the compiler knows the rest.

>And what do you tell management when
> production goes down

Why should it?  The way I skim the docs, VS Fortran does not even have
link-time optimization.

>because you hacked up an open source compiler to
> avoid using the IBM compiler?

To have better error checking and features that you could only
dream about with FORTRAN 77?  For OpenMP? For Coarrays?

IBM has a perfectly fine Fortran compiler for POWER, xlf, which is
available for Linux and AIX.  They have an optimizting C compiler,
which from the docs also does LTO.

I guess IBM has simply abandoned the language and compiler for z/OS.

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#213633 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-02 21:04 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<igf0lfl8706alsdos9hnuq92lu3gbai0l6@4ax.com>
In reply to#213628
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:52:35 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
>>>> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?
>>>
>>>you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.
>
>Actually, the effort for the compiler itself would probably not
>be too bad.  Somebody would have to write a machine description
>for z/OS with its calling conventions etc.  The assembly instructions
>are already there, in the existing S/390 port.
>
>Where things could get a little funny is the I/O part of the
>library.  Fortran has a record-oriented I/O structure (except for
>that newfangled stream stuff), but the underlying library is
>very much oriented towards as "stream of bytes" model.
>
>> So what justifies the effort?
>
>Fortran 90 has been released as a standard for 29 years, Fortran 77
>for 42 years.  In other words, Fortran 90 has been around for 70%
>of the time that Fortran 90 has been around.
>
>The language has expanded enormously in capabilities and, more
>importantly, error checking.  One example: It makes a big difference
>if you have to pass the bounds and size of every array manually, or
>if you can just pass one argument, and the compiler knows the rest.
>
>>And what do you tell management when
>> production goes down
>
>Why should it?  The way I skim the docs, VS Fortran does not even have
>link-time optimization.

Isn't this a feature of the linker, not the compiler?  So, now you are
going to replace the IBM linker with the gnu linker, in addition to
replacing the Fortran compiler? 

>>because you hacked up an open source compiler to
>> avoid using the IBM compiler?
>
>To have better error checking and features that you could only
>dream about with FORTRAN 77?

Get out of your head the notion that VS Fortran slavishly adheres to
the Fortran 77 standard.  When you criticize, make sure that you are
criticizing the IBM product and not some generic third party product.
VS Fortran is not Fortran 77.  It does not attempt to adhere to that
specification and has a number of extensions.

How is this "better error checking" manifested on MVS?  Note--when I
say "MVS", don't substitute in your mind "Z/OS".  Z/OS is a whole
bunch of things, but production jobs are generally run under the piece
that works like MVS, not under the pretend Unix.

And what does "OpenMP" buy me on a Z that I want?  Looks like another
open source generic product with which you want to replace IBM's
designed-from-the-ground-up-to-work-with-Z code.

And what do Coarrays buy me on MVS?

> For OpenMP? For Coarrays?
>
>IBM has a perfectly fine Fortran compiler for POWER, xlf, which is
>available for Linux and AIX.  They have an optimizting C compiler,
>which from the docs also does LTO.
>
>I guess IBM has simply abandoned the language and compiler for z/OS.

I'm starting to get the impression that you've never actually worked
in an MVS shop.

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#213643 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-03 07:19 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<riq5dt$qf8$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213633
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:52:35 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
>>>>> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?
>>>>
>>>>you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.
>>
>>Actually, the effort for the compiler itself would probably not
>>be too bad.  Somebody would have to write a machine description
>>for z/OS with its calling conventions etc.  The assembly instructions
>>are already there, in the existing S/390 port.
>>
>>Where things could get a little funny is the I/O part of the
>>library.  Fortran has a record-oriented I/O structure (except for
>>that newfangled stream stuff), but the underlying library is
>>very much oriented towards as "stream of bytes" model.
>>
>>> So what justifies the effort?
>>
>>Fortran 90 has been released as a standard for 29 years, Fortran 77
>>for 42 years.  In other words, Fortran 90 has been around for 70%
>>of the time that Fortran 90 has been around.
>>
>>The language has expanded enormously in capabilities and, more
>>importantly, error checking.  One example: It makes a big difference
>>if you have to pass the bounds and size of every array manually, or
>>if you can just pass one argument, and the compiler knows the rest.
>>
>>>And what do you tell management when
>>> production goes down
>>
>>Why should it?  The way I skim the docs, VS Fortran does not even have
>>link-time optimization.
>
> Isn't this a feature of the linker, not the compiler?

Seems like you need a bit of an update on modern compiler
technology...

No, it is a feature of the compiler.  IBM's C/C++ compiler for
MVS invokes it at optimization level 4 and 5.  There is a nice
explanation in the document entitled "Code optimization with the
IBM z/OS XL C/C++ compiler".  (They refer to it as IPA).
To quote:

# IPA optimization extends program analysis beyond individual files
# and compilation units to the entire application. IPA analysis
# can propagate values and inline code from one compilation unit to
# another. Global data structures can be reorganized or eliminated,
# and many other transformations become possible when the entire
# application is visible to the IPA optimizer.

# To make full use of IPA optimizations, you must specify IPA on
# the compilation and the link steps of your application build
# (which is done when specifying -O4). At compilation time,
# important optimizations occur at the compilation-unit level, as
# well as preparation for link-stage optimization. IPA information
# is written into the object files produced. At the link step,
# the IPA information is read from the object files and the entire
# application is analyzed. The analysis results in a restructured
# and rewritten application, which subsequently has the lower- level
# OPT(3) style optimizations that are applied to it before linking

This is the technology that has been around for more than ten years,
which gcc (and thus gfortran) implement (they call it lto),
which IBM's C/C++ compiler implements, and which VS Fortran...
well, it's not in the documentation, so my guess would be that they
don't do it.

Come to think of it, you might get faster code if you run your
F77-style code through f2c and then use the IBM C compiler at high
optimization level.

>>To have better error checking and features that you could only
>>dream about with FORTRAN 77?
>
> Get out of your head the notion that VS Fortran slavishly adheres to
> the Fortran 77 standard.  When you criticize, make sure that you are
> criticizing the IBM product and not some generic third party product.
> VS Fortran is not Fortran 77.  It does not attempt to adhere to that
> specification and has a number of extensions.

I'm critizizing IBM's VS compiler for its lack of modern Fortran
features which have been standard for decades. Does it have modules?
Assumed-shape arrays?  Allocatable arrays?  Recursive functions
and subroutines?  Derived types?  Classes?  Coarrays?  Operator
overloading?  Generics?  INTENT(IN) / INTENT(OUT)?  Optional
arguments?  Automatic arrays?

> How is this "better error checking" manifested on MVS?

First, compile-time.  If you put your code into modules, you will
get error checking for the number, types and ranks of arguments
that you pass.  Looking back at my Fortran 77 days, getting
an argument wrong was a BIG source of errors.

Second, bounds checking.  With assumed-shape arrays, bounds are
passed along with the array, so if you do get something wrong,
the compiler can catch that even though you may have passed
some dimension in error.  Again, a major source of errors.

Finally, work space handling.  Debugging an error because something
overran a work space is... let's say I've done it.  I was paid by
the hour, so it wasn't too bad, but it was money earned hard.

> And what does "OpenMP" buy me on a Z that I want?  Looks like another
> open source generic product with which you want to replace IBM's
> designed-from-the-ground-up-to-work-with-Z code.

Portability with source code from outside the MVS bubble?  By the way,
OpenMP isn't an open-source product, it's a standard.

> And what do Coarrays buy me on MVS?

A clean parallell programming paradigm?

>
>> For OpenMP? For Coarrays?
>>
>>IBM has a perfectly fine Fortran compiler for POWER, xlf, which is
>>available for Linux and AIX.  They have an optimizting C compiler,
>>which from the docs also does LTO.
>>
>>I guess IBM has simply abandoned the language and compiler for z/OS.
>
> I'm starting to get the impression that you've never actually worked
> in an MVS shop.

I've worked on MVS (hey, I wrote JCL to compile a Fortran program
for checking on a 3090 where CPU time was cheap and the error
messages were better. If it was OK it was sent across to an
expensive vector computer using JES2, compiled and executed it
there, and then a job was cross-submitted to the 3090 to transfer
the files back and do the rest of the processing.  Around 150
lines of JCL, and it wasn't pretty, but it worked).

But yes, those were the days when IBM-compatible mainframes were
still competetive for numerical work.  It's been a while.

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#213647 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-03 09:15 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<4fq1lftq4e96l1g78lfrq25tb8888klhqt@4ax.com>
In reply to#213643
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 07:19:25 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:52:35 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We are discussing the potential for replacing IBM VS Fortran Version2
>>>>>> that with GNU Fortran.  Can GNU Fortran be linked into that ecosystem?
>>>>>
>>>>>you can link anything to anything, given enough time and effort.
>>>
>>>Actually, the effort for the compiler itself would probably not
>>>be too bad.  Somebody would have to write a machine description
>>>for z/OS with its calling conventions etc.  The assembly instructions
>>>are already there, in the existing S/390 port.
>>>
>>>Where things could get a little funny is the I/O part of the
>>>library.  Fortran has a record-oriented I/O structure (except for
>>>that newfangled stream stuff), but the underlying library is
>>>very much oriented towards as "stream of bytes" model.
>>>
>>>> So what justifies the effort?
>>>
>>>Fortran 90 has been released as a standard for 29 years, Fortran 77
>>>for 42 years.  In other words, Fortran 90 has been around for 70%
>>>of the time that Fortran 90 has been around.
>>>
>>>The language has expanded enormously in capabilities and, more
>>>importantly, error checking.  One example: It makes a big difference
>>>if you have to pass the bounds and size of every array manually, or
>>>if you can just pass one argument, and the compiler knows the rest.
>>>
>>>>And what do you tell management when
>>>> production goes down
>>>
>>>Why should it?  The way I skim the docs, VS Fortran does not even have
>>>link-time optimization.
>>
>> Isn't this a feature of the linker, not the compiler?
>
>Seems like you need a bit of an update on modern compiler
>technology...
>
>No, it is a feature of the compiler.  IBM's C/C++ compiler for
>MVS invokes it at optimization level 4 and 5.  There is a nice
>explanation in the document entitled "Code optimization with the
>IBM z/OS XL C/C++ compiler".  (They refer to it as IPA).

Uh, child, I know what optimization is.

You were referring specifically to link-time optimization.  How does
something that doesn't link optimize anything at link time?

>To quote:
>
># IPA optimization extends program analysis beyond individual files
># and compilation units to the entire application. IPA analysis
># can propagate values and inline code from one compilation unit to
># another. Global data structures can be reorganized or eliminated,
># and many other transformations become possible when the entire
># application is visible to the IPA optimizer.
>
># To make full use of IPA optimizations, you must specify IPA on
># the compilation and the link steps of your application build
># (which is done when specifying -O4). At compilation time,
># important optimizations occur at the compilation-unit level, as
># well as preparation for link-stage optimization. IPA information
># is written into the object files produced. At the link step,
># the IPA information is read from the object files and the entire
># application is analyzed. The analysis results in a restructured
># and rewritten application, which subsequently has the lower- level
># OPT(3) style optimizations that are applied to it before linking
>
>This is the technology that has been around for more than ten years,
>which gcc (and thus gfortran) implement (they call it lto),
>which IBM's C/C++ compiler implements, and which VS Fortran...
>well, it's not in the documentation, so my guess would be that they
>don't do it.
>
>Come to think of it, you might get faster code if you run your
>F77-style code through f2c and then use the IBM C compiler at high
>optimization level.

Oh, GAWD.  You're an effing glutton for punishment aren't you.

Are you a professor or something?  Because you are certainly not
coming across as someone who has ever had to maintain production code.

>>>To have better error checking and features that you could only
>>>dream about with FORTRAN 77?
>>
>> Get out of your head the notion that VS Fortran slavishly adheres to
>> the Fortran 77 standard.  When you criticize, make sure that you are
>> criticizing the IBM product and not some generic third party product.
>> VS Fortran is not Fortran 77.  It does not attempt to adhere to that
>> specification and has a number of extensions.
>
>I'm critizizing IBM's VS compiler for its lack of modern Fortran
>features which have been standard for decades. Does it have modules?
>Assumed-shape arrays?  Allocatable arrays?  Recursive functions
>and subroutines?  Derived types?  Classes?  Coarrays?  Operator
>overloading?  Generics?  INTENT(IN) / INTENT(OUT)?  Optional
>arguments?  Automatic arrays?

Why don't you find out instead of spouting off.

>> How is this "better error checking" manifested on MVS?
>
>First, compile-time.  If you put your code into modules, you will
>get error checking for the number, types and ranks of arguments
>that you pass.  Looking back at my Fortran 77 days, getting
>an argument wrong was a BIG source of errors.

Have you ever, just once in your life, compiled ANYTHING on MVS?

>Second, bounds checking.  With assumed-shape arrays, bounds are
>passed along with the array, so if you do get something wrong,
>the compiler can catch that even though you may have passed
>some dimension in error.  Again, a major source of errors.

Same question.

>Finally, work space handling.  Debugging an error because something
>overran a work space is... let's say I've done it.  I was paid by
>the hour, so it wasn't too bad, but it was money earned hard.

Never had that problem.

>> And what does "OpenMP" buy me on a Z that I want?  Looks like another
>> open source generic product with which you want to replace IBM's
>> designed-from-the-ground-up-to-work-with-Z code.
>
>Portability with source code from outside the MVS bubble?  By the way,
>OpenMP isn't an open-source product, it's a standard.

Why do I need portability of source code on code which exists to be
tied into an admin system that runs on VS COBOL and CICS.  
>
>> And what do Coarrays buy me on MVS?
>
>A clean parallell programming paradigm?

How does that help me on MVS?  Show me an example, on MVS.

>>> For OpenMP? For Coarrays?
>>>
>>>IBM has a perfectly fine Fortran compiler for POWER, xlf, which is
>>>available for Linux and AIX.  They have an optimizting C compiler,
>>>which from the docs also does LTO.
>>>
>>>I guess IBM has simply abandoned the language and compiler for z/OS.
>>
>> I'm starting to get the impression that you've never actually worked
>> in an MVS shop.
>
>I've worked on MVS (hey, I wrote JCL to compile a Fortran program
>for checking on a 3090 where CPU time was cheap and the error
>messages were better. If it was OK it was sent across to an
>expensive vector computer using JES2, compiled and executed it
>there, and then a job was cross-submitted to the 3090 to transfer
>the files back and do the rest of the processing.  Around 150
>lines of JCL, and it wasn't pretty, but it worked).

Oh, touch you, you wrote 150 lines of JCL once.

>But yes, those were the days when IBM-compatible mainframes were
>still competetive for numerical work.  It's been a while.

It's clear that you are more concerned with playing with toys than
getting work done.  All of your reasons for using gcc on MVS instead
of VS Fortran really boil down to my having to work harder to get no
actual benefit.

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#213681 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2020-09-03 13:28 -0700
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<781f61cd-f768-45f5-9b6e-73324c3fb106o@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#213647
On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:15:55 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> You were referring specifically to link-time optimization.  How does
> something that doesn't link optimize anything at link time?

He explained that. Apparently, modern compilers _do_ link, if you select the 
appropriate optimization level, and make all the source available to them.

John Savard

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#213688 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-03 18:04 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<dtp2lfp54s5h9hi8s5n143jvo7nqimnv0g@4ax.com>
In reply to#213681
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:15:55 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> You were referring specifically to link-time optimization.  How does
>> something that doesn't link optimize anything at link time?
>
>He explained that. Apparently, modern compilers _do_ link, if you select the 
>appropriate optimization level, and make all the source available to them.

The thing is, I selcom link Fortran to Fortran.  It is usually linked
to COBOL, or to C that links to COBOL.  And I don't mean gnu COBOL.
When gnu COBOL supports CICS, get back to us.

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#213703 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-04 05:48 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<riskfp$msv$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213688
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:15:55 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> You were referring specifically to link-time optimization.  How does
>>> something that doesn't link optimize anything at link time?
>>
>>He explained that. Apparently, modern compilers _do_ link, if you select the 
>>appropriate optimization level, and make all the source available to them.
>
> The thing is, I selcom link Fortran to Fortran.  It is usually linked
> to COBOL, or to C that links to COBOL.  And I don't mean gnu COBOL.

Most optimizations in modern compilers are done on an intermediate
language (GIMPLE vor gcc, LLVM for clang, etc).  It is the task
of the different front ends to translate the source langauge to
that intermediate language.  LTO (or IPO, if you will) uses
that language, as well.

So, there is no problem in optimizing mixed-language programs.

It's actually explained quite nicely in that IBM about optimizting
on the document I cited.

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#213705 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-04 10:07 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<65i4lfh0jd37j26surlf2c78u9ntofjcq9@4ax.com>
In reply to#213703
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 05:48:41 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:15:55 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> You were referring specifically to link-time optimization.  How does
>>>> something that doesn't link optimize anything at link time?
>>>
>>>He explained that. Apparently, modern compilers _do_ link, if you select the 
>>>appropriate optimization level, and make all the source available to them.
>>
>> The thing is, I selcom link Fortran to Fortran.  It is usually linked
>> to COBOL, or to C that links to COBOL.  And I don't mean gnu COBOL.
>
>Most optimizations in modern compilers are done on an intermediate
>language (GIMPLE vor gcc, LLVM for clang, etc).  It is the task
>of the different front ends to translate the source langauge to
>that intermediate language.  LTO (or IPO, if you will) uses
>that language, as well.
>
>So, there is no problem in optimizing mixed-language programs.
>
>It's actually explained quite nicely in that IBM about optimizting
>on the document I cited.

OK, show me an example of a program compiled under gnu Fortran, linked
to VS COBOL, using your "link-time optimizations", under MVS.

And then show me that the resulting  object code performs at least 50%
better than the same code when VS Fortran was used.

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#213706 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-04 14:56 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<ritkj9$e73$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213705
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:

> OK, show me an example of a program compiled under gnu Fortran,

You should know that has not bee ported to MVS.

Your request is meaningless.

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#213708 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-04 11:07 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<atl4lf5f2aihc80vjsgvm141e3sdauqhnn@4ax.com>
In reply to#213706
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 14:56:41 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> OK, show me an example of a program compiled under gnu Fortran,
>
>You should know that has not bee ported to MVS.
>
>Your request is meaningless.

You have just spent the past however many posts haranguing me about
how I should be using gnu Fortran instead of VS Fortran, and now you
say "but it doesn't work on your system".

Fuck you and the gnu you rode in on.

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#213714 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-04 19:49 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<riu5ne$rg7$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213708
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 14:56:41 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> OK, show me an example of a program compiled under gnu Fortran,
>>
>>You should know that has not bee ported to MVS.
>>
>>Your request is meaningless.
>
> You have just spent the past however many posts haranguing me about
> how I should be using gnu Fortran instead of VS Fortran,

We were discussing the possibility of porting gfortran to MVS, plus
the drawbacks of VS Fortran vs. modern Fortran implementations,
such as gfortran or IBM's own xlf (but that is for POWER only).

> and now you
> say "but it doesn't work on your system".

Nowhere did anybody say that gfortran had been ported to MVS.
What I said that was that it would be a difficult project.

I'm not sure at all where you got that idea from that it alread
had been done, it can't have been from something I wrote.

> Fuck you and the gnu you rode in on.

Don't know really understand what your problem is.  Do you get
this upset by any criticism directed at MVS?

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#213715 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-04 16:12 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<8r75lfd616sel0ncos1hosb9cafleldjhh@4ax.com>
In reply to#213714
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 19:49:02 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 14:56:41 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>
>>>> OK, show me an example of a program compiled under gnu Fortran,
>>>
>>>You should know that has not bee ported to MVS.
>>>
>>>Your request is meaningless.
>>
>> You have just spent the past however many posts haranguing me about
>> how I should be using gnu Fortran instead of VS Fortran,
>
>We were discussing the possibility of porting gfortran to MVS, plus
>the drawbacks of VS Fortran vs. modern Fortran implementations,
>such as gfortran or IBM's own xlf (but that is for POWER only).
>
>> and now you
>> say "but it doesn't work on your system".
>
>Nowhere did anybody say that gfortran had been ported to MVS.
>What I said that was that it would be a difficult project.
>
>I'm not sure at all where you got that idea from that it alread
>had been done, it can't have been from something I wrote.
>
>> Fuck you and the gnu you rode in on.
>
>Don't know really understand what your problem is.  Do you get
>this upset by any criticism directed at MVS?

I get upset by any arsewipe who wastes my time with a lot of bullshit.

If you want to port gfortran to MVS and show that there is some
benefit to doing so other than massaging your pathetic little ego,
please do so.  Until you have done so quit wasting people's time with
your bullshit.

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#213716 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-04 20:34 +0000
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<riu8c9$ssk$2@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#213715
J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:

> I get upset by any arsewipe who wastes my time with a lot of bullshit.

It's a little unfair to blame your apparent lack of reading
comprehension on other people, and then start insulting them when
this is pointed out to you.

> If you want to port gfortran to MVS

I don't, particularly.  I think it would be much better if IBM
ported their own xlf compiler.

The stanard that VS Fortran is based on has been superseded for
almost 30 years, and there have been five succeeding revisions
of Fortran since.  I think it is fair to that what IBM offers its
customers for Fortran on MVS sub-standard (pun intended).

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#213717 — Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-04 16:53 -0400
SubjectRe: IBM system/360, whiz or dog?
Message-ID<riu9g0$dma$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213716
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:

> J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> I get upset by any arsewipe who wastes my time with a lot of bullshit.
>
> It's a little unfair to blame your apparent lack of reading
> comprehension on other people, and then start insulting them when
> this is pointed out to you.
>
>> If you want to port gfortran to MVS
>
> I don't, particularly.  I think it would be much better if IBM
> ported their own xlf compiler.
>
> The stanard that VS Fortran is based on has been superseded for
> almost 30 years, and there have been five succeeding revisions
> of Fortran since.  I think it is fair to that what IBM offers its
> customers for Fortran on MVS sub-standard (pun intended).

Oops, I think you're going to set him off again.

I recall reading somewhere that stuff that used to be done
with Fortran is now often done with C.

At first that seems counter-intuitive.  Fortran mimics
the language of mathematics so should be something a mathematician
would want to use.  But I suppose mathematicians are fully capable
of using a simple programming language.

Back in my high school days I thought I wanted to be
a mathematician.  I found algebra, geometry, and calculus
so interesting.  Then I got a little exposure to statistics.  Boring.
On my first job I got to know the mathematician working
at our finance company.  At that point I became very happy
that I chose programming/design for my career.

-- 
Dan Espen

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