Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #235540 > unrolled thread

Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze)

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-06 11:08 -0300
    Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-06 23:14 +0800
      Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-09-21 09:31 +0000
        Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-21 16:02 +0000
          Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Chris Abraham <chris@gerriscorp.com> - 2026-09-21 12:28 -0400
          Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-09-22 12:06 -0300
            Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-22 17:00 +0000
              Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bringquantum te "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-mtt-this> - 2026-09-24 07:44 -0700
                Re: Usenet history Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-24 23:30 +0000
        Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Chris Abraham <chris@gerriscorp.com> - 2026-09-21 12:22 -0400
        Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-09-21 20:53 +0200
      Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-09-22 12:05 -0300
    Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-06 08:20 -0700
    Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-06 20:09 +0200
      Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-09-21 09:33 +0000
        Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-21 15:28 +0200
          Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Chris Abraham <chris@gerriscorp.com> - 2026-09-21 12:27 -0400
            Re: Usenet history Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-22 00:39 +0000
              Re: Usenet history Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> - 2026-09-22 10:35 -0400
                Re: Usenet history drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-09-22 16:27 +0000
              Re: Usenet history Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-22 07:16 -1000
                Re: Usenet history Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-22 21:00 +0000
                Re: Usenet history Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-22 13:15 -1000
        Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze) Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-09-22 12:44 -0300

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#235540 — Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bring quantum technology out of the deep freeze)

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes:
> On 9/6/26 04:42, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>> I think you have forgotten Bandygrams.  There was never a time when
>> everyone on Usenet was polite and reasonable.  Knowledgeable, maybe.
>> Kragen
>
> Since when do you know of usenet?

I first posted to Usenet in 01992, but Bandygrams were in the early
01980s.  For a number of years, it was possible to read early Usenet via
DejaNews and then Google Groups, but that does not work well anymore, so
if you missed out on reading early 80s Usenet, it may be quite a while
before you find out what a Bandygram is.

Kragen

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#235544

On 06/09/2026 10:08 PM, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes:
>> On 9/6/26 04:42, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>>> I think you have forgotten Bandygrams.  There was never a time when
>>> everyone on Usenet was polite and reasonable.  Knowledgeable, maybe.
>>> Kragen
>>
>> Since when do you know of usenet?
> 
> I first posted to Usenet in 01992, but Bandygrams were in the early

Is this octal 01992?  How do you have nines in octal numbers?

> 01980s.  For a number of years, it was possible to read early Usenet via
> DejaNews and then Google Groups, but that does not work well anymore, so
> if you missed out on reading early 80s Usenet, it may be quite a while
> before you find out what a Bandygram is.
> 
> Kragen

I believe I first posted to Usenet in the early 00s, but probably knew
about it in the late 90s, just didn't have internet at home.  By the
time I first entered university, I guess I used the university's access
to Usenet, which has probably been shut down since.

Later on, I used the ISP Usenet access, which I guess is also gone, but
then I've moved countries since, and now use a commercial Usenet access
because ISPs no longer provide this service -- or at least, I've never
seen any ISP advertise it here, nor have I checked.

Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.


Best wishes, and happy Usenet!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235671

On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 23:14:54 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:


> Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
> from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.

I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime 
around 2010-2015.

A loss.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235674

On 2026-09-21, Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 23:14:54 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>
>> Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
>> from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.
>
> I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
> IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime 
> around 2010-2015.
>
> A loss.

Even worse, some hotel wi-fi connections block port 119.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235677

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> Even worse, some hotel wi-fi connections block port 119.

I am running my USENET client on a Digital Oceans droplet that I reach 
through Alpine. Really old school. Let the droplet proxy 119. This is 
really new to me but I am loving it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235682

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2026-09-21, Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 23:14:54 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>>
>>> Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
>>> from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.
>>
>> I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
>> IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime 
>> around 2010-2015.
>>
>> A loss.
>
> Even worse, some hotel wi-fi connections block port 119.

That's ridiculous.  They're probably blocking a long range of ports that
119 falls in.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235685

On 2026-09-22, Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2026-09-21, Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 23:14:54 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
>>>> from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.
>>>
>>> I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
>>> IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime 
>>> around 2010-2015.
>>>
>>> A loss.
>>
>> Even worse, some hotel wi-fi connections block port 119.
>
> That's ridiculous.  They're probably blocking a long range of ports that
> 119 falls in.

You're no doubt right.  That's more the way a security nazi would think.
Still, it makes it a pain in the ass when you're on the road.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235695 — Re: Usent history (was Re: This tiny gold crystal could bringquantum te

  To: Charlie Gibbs
-=> Charlie Gibbs wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

 > That's ridiculous.  They're probably blocking a long range of ports that
 > 119 falls in.

 CG> You're no doubt right.  That's more the way a security nazi would
 CG> think. Still, it makes it a pain in the ass when you're on the road.

 Did I ever tell you about the time my company decided to route the
 entire 10.0.0.0 network through the VPN? There was *no* possibility
 anyone else was using that range internally!

         kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
                     | http://realitycheckbbs.org
                     | 1:218/700@fidonet		



 
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
 *  realitycheckBBS - Aptos, CA - telnet://realitycheckbbs.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235698 — Re: Usenet history

On Thu, 24 Sep 2026 07:44:38 -0700, Kurt Weiske wrote:

> Did I ever tell you about the time my company decided to route the
> entire 10.0.0.0 network through the VPN? There was *no* possibility
> anyone else was using that range internally!

Stick your own routing function† on the front, so only the parts you’re
not using go through to their VPN.

†Notice I said “routing function”, not “router”. It doesn’t have to be
a separate box, just a set of rules in your packet filter.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235675

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>> Point being, Usenet used to be a standard offering of ISPs where I came
>> from, but isn't anymore, and certainly isn't standard here.
>
> I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
> IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime
> around 2010-2015.
>
> A loss.

I am back. Have not been here since the late 90s. Got a free account. 
Connected it to my Alpine install. And give it a go. I wonder if there 
will be a resurgence. Back in the day, I even created something like:

alt.fan.chris-abraham
alt.fan.chris.abraham

Or something like that. I was nobody I just wanted to know if I could 
spawn it.

https://9p.io/sources/contrib/sl/lib/newsgroups

Cheers and hello again!

Chris

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235678

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 09:31:53 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> I remember it being standard well into the 00s.
> IIRC, most commercial Italian ISPs (where I live) have dropped it sometime 
> around 2010-2015.

I learned about Usenet through the university servers somewhere in 1998.

I got on Belgian cable (Telenet) in 2000. They had their own newsserver
and even some internal pandora.* newsgroups. Users used to post binaries
locally which didn't count as up/download.

They ended this service on Dec 31 2011 claiming 'the Telenet Usenet
Service was outdated/obsolete and that there were alternatives (Google
Groups)'. A more likely reason was the upl/download of (illegal)
binaries through their newsservers. By the end of each month everybody
started up/downloading en masse and you could notice the speed going
down. Good times. (-:

-- 
Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.
		- Julius Caesar

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235681

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> writes:

> On 06/09/2026 10:08 PM, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes:
>>> On 9/6/26 04:42, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>>>> I think you have forgotten Bandygrams.  There was never a time when
>>>> everyone on Usenet was polite and reasonable.  Knowledgeable, maybe.
>>>> Kragen
>>>
>>> Since when do you know of usenet?
>> I first posted to Usenet in 01992, but Bandygrams were in the early
>
> Is this octal 01992?  How do you have nines in octal numbers?

It can't be octal, right? Could it be that Kragen Javier Sitaker is
reserving a digit place for when we reach year 10000?  That can't be.
But it would be amusing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235545

On 9/6/26 07:08, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes:
>> On 9/6/26 04:42, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>>> I think you have forgotten Bandygrams.  There was never a time when
>>> everyone on Usenet was polite and reasonable.  Knowledgeable, maybe.
>>> Kragen
>>
>> Since when do you know of usenet?
> 
> I first posted to Usenet in 01992, but Bandygrams were in the early
> 01980s.  For a number of years, it was possible to read early Usenet via
> DejaNews and then Google Groups, but that does not work well anymore, so
> if you missed out on reading early 80s Usenet, it may be quite a while
> before you find out what a Bandygram is.
> 
Supposedly Google picked up all the posts from DejaNews,

Craig - you might think you can't win, because no sooner do you offer 
this great service than we start pointing out problems, but, again, 
thank you!

The way usenet is going this will probably soon be archive-only, because 
I see groups dropping out one by one.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235547

On 9/6/26 16:08, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes:
>> On 9/6/26 04:42, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote:
>>> I think you have forgotten Bandygrams.  There was never a time when
>>> everyone on Usenet was polite and reasonable.  Knowledgeable, maybe.
>>> Kragen
>>
>> Since when do you know of usenet?
> 
> I first posted to Usenet in 01992, but Bandygrams were in the early
> 01980s.  For a number of years, it was possible to read early Usenet via
> DejaNews and then Google Groups, but that does not work well anymore, so
> if you missed out on reading early 80s Usenet, it may be quite a while
> before you find out what a Bandygram is.
> 
> Kragen

I discovered usenet in 1983 or so. I still remember the kremvax
prank. I'd never heard of bandygrams, so it must have been some
niche phenomenon. Not that it matters.

Usenet people *were* polite and benevolent in those days. It didn't
last very long, is true. Even 'rn' had a kill file.

Jeroen Belleman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235672

On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:09:05 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:


> Usenet people *were* polite and benevolent in those days. It didn't last
> very long, is true. Even 'rn' had a kill file.

Have you tried, at least once, Facebook?

And I'm not suggesting that you do.

Just that if you'd made that mistake, your scale for "polite and 
benevolent" would end up readjusted in a way that would make the most 
toxic newsgroup look like tea with the Queen of England :-) 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235673

On 9/21/26 11:33, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:09:05 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> 
> 
>> Usenet people *were* polite and benevolent in those days. It didn't last
>> very long, is true. Even 'rn' had a kill file.
> 
> Have you tried, at least once, Facebook?
> 
> And I'm not suggesting that you do.
> 
> Just that if you'd made that mistake, your scale for "polite and
> benevolent" would end up readjusted in a way that would make the most
> toxic newsgroup look like tea with the Queen of England :-)

You can't compare the present-day Facebook rabble with the
early Usenet users. They aren't in the same league at all.

I don't suppose you were around at the time. Discussions
were interesting and informative. As I said, that didn't
last very long.

I've used Facebook in a corner where common decency was
still the rule, but I found it messy and entirely unfit
for purpose.

Jeroen Belleman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235676

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> You can't compare the present-day Facebook rabble with the
> early Usenet users. They aren't in the same league at all.

Please excuse me shameless share: 
https://biznology.com/2014/06/successful-snss-modeled-college-campus/

Successful SNS’s should be modeled on the college campus (2014)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
The future of Social Network Services (SNS) can be discovered on High 
School and College campuses. I believe that topic-specific “vertical” 
SNS’s are very important, but I also think that the model needs to be 
University-like – a modularized SNS. There needs to be a campus “brand” 
(or University) within which the topic-specific “clubs,” “houses,” 
“fraternities,” “dorms,” and “interest groups” can interact – somewhere 
where crossovers, cross-fertilization, and aggregation are encouraged – 
no, needs – to happen. I hate SNS sites like cardomain.com – a site 
devoted to your favorite cars – because I am not JUST a car guy.

I am a car guy for sure but I am also interested in motorcycling, rowing, 
training, running, in biking, in Thomas Pynchon, and in talk radio – 
CarDoimain might be successful in the short term, but in the long-term, 
the real power would come from creating a open, creative, resource-rich 
platform/campus/university/high school and maybe create a school of 
engineering, a liberal arts school, a law school, a dining hall, and so 
forth, but then allow the SNS to find itself.

Facebook, Google+, reddit, and even Twitter does a beautiful job of doing 
this, incidentally, allowing both the big tent generalist socialization 
and connection while also really being able to break into departments, 
clubs, and little hidy-holes where you can enjoy an ad hoc get together 
with friends and co-conspirators.

To allow the SNS and its members to find their own voice, their own 
interests, and their own passions – which may well be very different from 
what is first assumed by the creator. Google gets this, though not yet 
within the construct of the SNS’s. What Google did do successfully was to 
buy USENET – the original newsgroups – and then build an superstructure on 
top of that – make it modern, sustainable, durable, and more readable.

Google returned USENET to relevance in a world that considered newsgroups 
and IRC to be dead or dying. Each and every one of communities on USENET 
is amazingly vertical, but they could all back up and back out to the 
larger USENET community – to the equivalent of the “welcome new students” 
meetings and gatherings colleges offer to entering Freshmen.

Communities that are too vertical tend to shoe horn the “general topics” 
conversations into hidden “off topic” eddies. That is just the opposite of 
what should be done. The conversation should be general, 
cross-pollinating, and then move, after a conversation starts, into 
another room.

Start with an amazing platform, collect users, listen and watch them to 
see how they’re playing with the software application objects, widgets, 
and tools (are they playing with the toy or the box?), and then build for 
the users base, withholding judgment. reddit is a case study for this: 
start small, grow organically, and allow your members to find themselves.

The developers of reddit realized that after initial vertical growth based 
on the general members of Digg, kuro5hin, and Slashdot (techie, geeky, 
teens, boys), reddit would suffer from the same sort of vulnerabilities 
that Digg suffered when it didn’t evolve and grow and broaden itself past 
“News for nerds. Stuff that matters.”

People love talking about Linux, but when happens when the Dow drops or 
the elections come? Where will the conversation happen? Where is the 
“kitchen” at the party where every eventually goes to just talk about 
general interest stuff? Unless there are opportunities to express and 
share so-called “off-topic” conversation right there, within the community 
in which members are already committed, with members to whom they’re 
already committed, then they are bound to go elsewhere.

Starting small and allowing the community to design itself is much 
different than starting big and losing one’s focus. Other mistakes happen 
when community builders make assumptions as to what participants, members, 
and lurkers want. Another mistake is putting a wall up around the 
community so that non-members cannot get a full feeling for the community 
from without.

The best SNS’s, virtual worlds, and online communities are honeypots. By 
honeypot, I am not suggesting, “a server that is configured to detect an 
intruder by mirroring a real production system. It appears as an ordinary 
server doing work, but all the data and transactions are phony. Located 
either in or outside the firewall, the honeypot is used to learn about an 
intruder’s techniques as well as determine vulnerabilities in the real 
system.” Although I am, sort of. The best SNS needs to be appealing, 
attractive, sweet, and compelling. Community-builders and SNS ASP 
developers need to be willing learn about member techniques, interests, 
processes, and needs, as well as determine “vulnerabilities” in the SNS 
platform that may repel, turn off, or limit the evolution and growth of 
the community.

To channel Chauncey Gardener for a second, one must do whatever one must 
to make sure that the earth in the garden is moist and well fed, one must 
seed well and completely, one must keep the garden in sun and water, one 
must encourage the garden to grow as it will for only in its growth will 
the garden be successful, and then, after rigorous growth, pruning and 
weeding must be done, only in order to allow the garden to be healthy, not 
to turn the garden into topiary. Okay, I am done.

reddit allows all of these things. reddit is perfectly useful and 
compelling even as an alien, but it is way more fun and interesting when 
you’re a citizen, that’s for sure. An SNS community needs to be as 
attractive as possible because exclusivity is no longer essential or even 
valuable. What is valuable is “useful,” “interesting,” and “authentic.” 
They also have to have community buy-in and the best enjoy a certain 
fanatical devotion. Just like the best Universities and Colleges.

And reddit allowed its member to tell it when it was time to evolve past 
tech and geek news. reddit did not limit its scope or define itself too 
tightly with being “gear for geeks” or “news for nerds.” That would have 
ultimately been the death of reddit.

What the best Universities (such as Yale) understand is that it is not the 
student who is blessed and honored by being accepted by a top college 
(Yale College) but rather it is the college that should be blessed and 
honored (and should be grateful) that such a quality student is accepting 
its offers and actually attending – choosing – their particular school: 
Yale instead of Princeton, Brown, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Dartmouth, 
Stanford, Columbia, Berkeley, etc…

Harvard, too, is aware that although in the short-term Harvard makes the 
Harvard Man, over the long term, it is Harvard Men who made Harvard and 
continue to make Harvard. “Who have you graduated recently?” Unless the 
quality and character of its students and alumni remain top-drawer, 
Harvard is not guaranteed its position as “top three” in USA Today 
alongside Princeton and Yale. No matter how grand its endowment.

So, Harvard and Yale spoil their students rotten! My friends who attended 
Harvard or Yale college swoon over those 4 years like I swoon over my 
first love.

Likewise, SNS’s, virtual worlds, and virtual communities need to realize 
that at any one point, their brand is only as good as the collective that 
is manifest in the users, the members, the lurkers, the stewards, and the 
alumni of the property.

This isn’t only true in SNS’s. The same thing can be said of the most 
successful message boards and online communities. The most important 
distinction, I think, is that all of these “rooms” and all of these 
“clubs” and all of these spaces where (and are) defined and created by the 
communities themselves. Sui generis. And this sort of ownership – “for us 
by us,” as the slogan goes over as Howard Rheingold’s Brainstorms 
community – should never be underestimated.

The Well has Howard Rheingold as a member and alumnus, for example, and 
the credibility of all that he has made and done; over time, more and more 
virtual communities, virtual worlds, and SNS will be known for their 
members as well: who studies, who studied, and who wants to join.

“What’s in it for me” (WIIFM) and the concept of pride of ownership are 
important – essential – ingredients of a sustainable, deep, thriving, and 
healthy community. The success Facebook is that the verticals are not 
(were not) defined for them by their grand architects – they are 
self-creating, self-forming, and also self-destructing. They form, reform, 
mutate and disperse after they hit a limit of general conversation and 
then either break off and reform into an “interest group” or “club” or 
they self-check and work to “get back on topic.”

SNS’s and communities in general tend to be formed in one of two ways: 
like Paris or like London. Intelligence Design (architecture) or Emergent 
Design. The later never looks very beautiful or the way people – or the 
creators, investors, and architects – expect (or want) it to look, because 
investors and designers tend to not be able to control it – and when they 
do try to impost order, often in a heavy-handed way, they also tend to 
scare off all of their members, too.

This organic revolution has proven its success online time and time again. 
The Internet does not respond (well or at all) to command and control. The 
smartest Web 2.0 platforms allow the “masses of asses” (yes, the customer; 
yes, us) to define the platform and the experience – their own and 
collective environment and experience.

Facebook does this amazingly well. Friendster and MySpace suffered from a 
vision and used command and control tactics to try to coerce its users 
that “it didn’t really want to do things that way” and Friendster members 
abandoned in droves to platforms and experiences not so monitored by “mom 
and dad.”

A command and control grand vision doesn’t work when you develop an 
environment that needs to be truly both attractive and compelling much 
more than it needs to be informational or instructional. An SNS needs to 
be attractive, diversional, compelling, amusing, and entertaining – never 
limiting.

My analogy of college and high school never mentioned classrooms or 
classes for training or learning. People do enough of that at school and 
at work. An SNS needs to give its users a university campus without any 
expectations or concepts of dropping out, getting judged, doing homework, 
or being held accountable for anything.

A good SNS should be all late-night wine-influenced discussions of 
Descartes and Plato and the summer afternoons on the quad and the time 
playing Xbox with your roommates.

When I go onto my long-term online communities, the Well, The Meta 
Network, USENET, and Brainstorms, there are many very deep and very 
vertical communities, discussing things as frivolous as fashion and video 
games and as deep as how to survive cancer, how to get a post doc grant, 
and very deep discussions on “spirit,” “chaos theory,” and “world 
politics.”

What makes this amazing and sustainable is that there are an infinite 
number of ways to get along, to move into a space of intense conversation, 
and then to pull back into common areas, just to see who’s around. In a 
university setting, this could be the dining hall, the quad, the commons, 
etc. These spaces are very important.

If you think about all of this in terms of evolution, then we can think 
about the way things evolve in the most perverse ways when isolated from 
others of its kinds. So, if there are impervious walls – gaps or voids, 
mountains or ridges – between these vertical markets, SNS’s, and 
communities, then there may be an initial success, but there can also be a 
terrible volatility. One plague or drought can decimate a population 
completely.

Having a commons allows members and visitors to have a place to meet new 
people, have new experiences, and learn of new clubs, new opportunities, 
and new places – inbreeding versus crossbreeding. Ultimately, a diversity 
of visitors helps build a more resilient, invested, and self-identifying 
community. They will become “students for life” at best and proud alums at 
worst. They will carry the brand awareness, even if their lives become too 
busy to participate any more.

They will become life long brand ambassadors for your community. Proud 
alumni.

And, in terms of “viral marketing,” it is also important when it comes to 
a member of an SNS “inviting his friends” – not all of my friends have the 
same vertical interests that I do… They could have very different 
interests – but as I explore the “commons” of an SNS, I can note that 
there are things happening online that “friend x” and “friend y” would 
love, and that would be my incentive to invite them on board.

I am the only person I know in my entire community – that is not true, my 
buddy has an Audi S4 – who is into cars. My buddy is an Audi driver and I 
am a BMW driver. Does that mean we’re both drivers? Does that mean we love 
cars or our particular car? Do we cross over on performance sedans? On 
German cars? On luxury cars?

You have to offer the tools to allow the market to choose for itself, 
otherwise, you might never find out that the SNS needs all three, or none 
at all.

A “Modularized SNS” should be neutral like a university (unlike MySpace, 
which is pretty pre-defined as to what the demographic is), and there are 
lots of “vertical niche SNS’s” (e.g. car enthusiasts, gourmet cooking, 
travel, Rolex fans, Republican politicos, etc.) That way, everyone can 
form a SNS experience that actually fits them by modularly assembling the 
groups of people who have similar interests, (not just friends-in-common!)

Got it? Go git ’em, Tiger!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235679 — Re: Usenet history

On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 12:27:26 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:

> Please excuse me shameless share:
> https://biznology.com/2014/06/successful-snss-modeled-college-campus/
>
> Successful SNS’s should be modeled on the college campus (2014)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The future of Social Network Services (SNS) can be discovered on
> High School and College campuses. I believe that topic-specific
> “vertical” SNS’s are very important, but I also think that the model
> needs to be University-like – a modularized SNS.

Anybody remember CoSy, from the 1980s? From the University of Guelph?
BYTE magazine were using it for their online forums.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235680 — Re: Usenet history

On 9/21/26 20:39, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 12:27:26 -0400, Chris Abraham wrote:
> 
>> Please excuse me shameless share:
>> https://biznology.com/2014/06/successful-snss-modeled-college-campus/
>>
> Anybody remember CoSy, from the 1980s? From the University of Guelph?
> BYTE magazine were using it for their online forums.

Not sure of the timeframe, but I seem to recall accessing something from 
Byte using the "Byte Information Exchange" (BIX) in what I believe was 
the late 1980s.  Was this actually CoSy ???

Boy the memory gets hazy after 40 years...

-- 
"Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.  Set a man on fire, and 
he's  warm for the rest of his life."

- Terry Pratchett, Discworld

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#235684 — Re: Usenet history

 > > Anybody remember CoSy, from the 1980s? From the University of Guelph?
 > > BYTE magazine were using it for their online forums.

 > Not sure of the timeframe, but I seem to recall accessing something from 
 > Byte using the "Byte Information Exchange" (BIX) in what I believe was 
 > the late 1980s.  Was this actually CoSy ???

Yes, BIX was a CoSy installation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoSy

De

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers

csiph-web