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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #235350 > unrolled thread

The Return Of Cassette Tape

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-08-23 23:43 +0000
Last post2026-08-27 08:44 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 75 — 25 participants

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Contents

  The Return Of Cassette Tape Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 23:43 +0000
    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 02:47 +0000
      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-25 11:25 +0100
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-25 20:34 +0800
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? jerryab <jerryab@juno.com> - 2026-08-25 09:39 -0500
          [OT] Arguably unreasonable crossposts (was: Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:37 +0100
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 05:16 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 19:47 +0800
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? JJ <jj4public@gmail.com> - 2026-08-26 16:42 +0700
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 19:44 +0800
              Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-28 08:05 -0700
                Re: The Return Of .... ink+pen+paper? clay tablet? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-29 10:23 +0800
              Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-28 11:39 -0400
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-28 13:07 -0700
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-28 17:36 -0500
                    Re: The Return Of ... Dark Age? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-29 10:33 +0800
                  Re: The Return Of .... monks laboriously copying a manuscript by hand? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-29 10:26 +0800
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:38 +0200
                    Re: The Return Of ... replication old things? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-30 04:43 +0800
                    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:02 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-28 22:20 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-29 03:51 -0400
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards? Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-08-26 19:50 +1000
            Re: The Return Of .... Time of creation? "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-29 10:36 +0800
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:35 +0000
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 01:34 +0200
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 05:23 +0000
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 05:21 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-27 12:02 -0400
              Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 21:12 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-27 14:18 -0700
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-27 21:48 +0000
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 05:14 +0000
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape SpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-26 15:02 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 18:54 +0200
              Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 00:48 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-27 08:39 +0200
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 21:10 +0000
              Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape SpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-28 14:53 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-28 22:22 +0000
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-lo6-this> - 2026-08-29 08:39 -0700
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-29 15:47 -0400
                    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-29 20:16 +0000
                      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-29 21:07 +0000
                      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-30 12:18 -0400
                        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-30 20:36 +0000
                          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-31 03:09 +0000
                            Connector, plugs and socket naming (was: Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-31 10:18 +0100
                              Re: Connector, plugs and socket naming (was: Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-31 10:18 +0000
                                Re: [CORRECTION] Connector, plugs and socket naming (was: Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-31 10:24 +0000
                  Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape SpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:31 +0000
                    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-30 10:24 +0100
                      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-30 20:00 +0000
                    Old cables and other things to hoard (Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-30 06:48 -0700
                      Re: Old cables and other things to hoard (Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-30 15:49 +0000
                        Re: Old cables and other things to hoard (Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-08-30 12:48 -0700
                          Re: Old cables and other things to hoard (Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-31 13:04 +0200
                      Re: Old cables and other things to hoard (Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-09-11 15:16 +0000
                    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-31 09:22 -0700
                Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-09-11 14:46 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-27 01:22 +0000
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Daniel <me@fuhgitabutit.com> - 2026-08-28 01:09 -0700
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-08-28 11:43 +0000
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 08:45 -0700
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 21:35 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-29 00:20 +0000
            Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-29 09:55 -0400
    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-25 15:07 -0400
      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 05:13 +0000
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-26 18:08 +0000
          Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 00:45 +0000
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-27 11:58 -0400
    Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-26 14:11 +0000
      Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 00:52 +0000
        Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-27 08:44 +0200

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#235424 — Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 22:20 +0000
SubjectRe: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?
Message-ID<116t1je$2ok8c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235417
On Fri, 28 Aug 2026 11:39:42 -0400, knuttle wrote:

> If the many pages of my genealogy work were on paper, I could be
> found 100 years from now, be read.

Assuming you chose the right paper, and stored it properly at the
right humidity and temperature level, and the amount of handling was
kept to a minimum.

Physical artifacts degrade over time. That’s why you need data storage
and propagation methods that are not bound to particular physical
artifacts.

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#235441 — Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2026-08-29 03:51 -0400
SubjectRe: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?
Message-ID<116u31r$322h9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235417
On Fri, 8/28/2026 11:39 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On 08/28/2026 7:44 AM, Mr. Chang Man-wai wrote:
>> On 8/26/2026 5:42 PM, JJ wrote:
>>> On 8/25/2026 6:25 PM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
>>>
>>> They've been emulated from solid drive.
>>
>>
>> Nothing can replace the durability and
>> certainty of ink, pen/stamp and paper.
>> They are physical, unlike electronics
>> including computers and cellphones.
>> Of course, there was/is fake and/or
>> fading inks. Meow.... :)
>>
> That is one thing that bothers me, If the many pages of my genealogy work were on paper, 
> I could be found 100 years from now, be read. Barring catastrophe. The failure of an 
> organization, or an unfortunate press of he delete key could remove 20 years of work.  
> I wonder it my hard drives would even be readable in 100 year.

The M-DISC used to be made by a small startup company. It went bankrupt.
Verbatim acquired it. The M-DISC DVDs immediately disappeared. Leaving
the BD-R 25GB ones. Apparently, within the last few years, the electronic
label on the BD-R M-DISC changed, indicating they're not M-DISC and not
made in the M-DISC factory. This means you're back to using "gold" DVDs
for archival store.

   https://www.pcworld.com/article/423607/hard-core-data-preservation-the-best-media-and-methods-for-archiving-your-data.html

Not all the advice in that article, makes sense. Modern Hard Drives, have
servo wedges, that are written once at the factory, and must remain
functional for the life of the drive. If re-writing the sectors every three
years was a "clever" thing to do, then the servo wedges stand to limit
the service life of the drive. You would not use Helium drives for
archival storage (these have welded lids and no screws visible on top),
as the Helium cannot stay in those drives forever. Lower capacity drives
are air-breathers.

When you purchase hard drives, none of the pictures are "real" pictures,
it's all a lot of fakery. For example, the last HDD I bought, it has solid
aluminum structures set aside to be drilled and tapped, yet, they did not
drill and tap those! This means two of the mounting holes I could have
had, were missing. This is the advantage of advertisements that use
"real straight from factory" pictures and not the AL Slop pictures that
are so popular in marketing.

Kingston used to solve this problem, by showing engineering drawings on their
web site, for DIMM products. This allowed a customer to "inspect" the construction
and tell what they were getting. Few companies do a thing like that. Disk drives
really need that now, because of mounting hole practices. And an assortment
of other lies or omissions. Disk drives actually have a 100 page document each,
with all sorts of information about a design. Due to the inaccuracies in the
marketing information, this kind of document is what we should be using when
selecting products.

Summary: You're delusional if you think your time capsule is lasting 100 years.
         Our supply of tech toys, is too tentative to be making such predictions.
         And as fast as we identify a superior solution, the company making it
         goes out of business. I would think 40 years is a good target
         for time capsules, and still, with adequate temperature and humidity control.
         You can't store a time capsule in a 130F garage :-) Maybe your 12 color
         fine art prints on special paper, the yellow fades out at 130F.

         Lots of people, put no effort into the container for the time capsule.
         They may use "good media" to some end, then use a Glad garbage bag as the
         outer protection. I haven't been to any back yard ceremonies where a
         purpose built container with good gaskets was used. It's always a mayonnaise
         jar with a rusted-thru lid :-) The lids rust on those.

   Paul

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#235386 — Re: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2026-08-26 19:50 +1000
SubjectRe: The Return Of Cassette Tape ... and punch cards?
Message-ID<116mcsq$gupk$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235366
On 25/08/2026 10:34 pm, Mr. Chang Man-wai wrote:
> On 8/25/2026 6:25 PM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>
>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
>>
> And the punch cards?
> 
> How about employee clock-in machines
> that actually punch cards? I am not
> talking about 100% electronic ones.
> 
> I am talking about physical punching
> clock-in machines, not contactless
> ones.
> 
> Meow....
> 
Do 'we' need Time Clocks .... or can The Boss just check what time 'we' 
turn our Work Computers "On" and "Off"??
-- 
Daniel70

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#235437 — Re: The Return Of .... Time of creation?

From"Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2026-08-29 10:36 +0800
SubjectRe: The Return Of .... Time of creation?
Message-ID<116tgj6$2svan$2@toylet.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#235386
On 8/26/2026 5:50 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 25/08/2026 10:34 pm, Mr. Chang Man-wai wrote:
>>
>> How about employee clock-in machines
>> that actually punch cards? I am not
>> talking about 100% electronic ones.
>>
> Do 'we' need Time Clocks .... or can The Boss just check what time 'we'
> turn our Work Computers "On" and "Off"??



The Sun, the Moon and the stars!! They last
longer than marble stones, don't they? Since
the BIG BANG of Creation? :)

And what is time? Is it just God's feeling?


-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw
          The game is afoot... Meow...

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#235376

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 21:35 +0000
Message-ID<116l1qc$4nha$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235365
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!

Now *there* is a medium I do have first-hand experience with.

While it was less clunky and perhaps a bit faster than cassette tape,
it still had reliability problems, too.

Back in my Macintosh days, I used to keep two backup copies of all the
programs I’d written, on floppy disks. Then when I got my first CD
writer, one of the first things I did was copy those programs (and all
the other data I valued) onto the more durable medium.

In the process, I hit the inevitable bad sectors on the floppies. I
remember there was one on *both* copies of the same set of files.
Luckily, I think they were in different spots (it was a while ago
now), so I was able to retrieve intact copies of all the files.

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#235378

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-26 01:34 +0200
Message-ID<gdl1mmx3cb.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#235376
On 2026-08-25 23:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> 
>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
> 
> Now *there* is a medium I do have first-hand experience with.
> 
> While it was less clunky and perhaps a bit faster than cassette tape,
> it still had reliability problems, too.
> 
> Back in my Macintosh days, I used to keep two backup copies of all the
> programs I’d written, on floppy disks. Then when I got my first CD
> writer, one of the first things I did was copy those programs (and all
> the other data I valued) onto the more durable medium.
> 
> In the process, I hit the inevitable bad sectors on the floppies. I
> remember there was one on *both* copies of the same set of files.
> Luckily, I think they were in different spots (it was a while ago
> now), so I was able to retrieve intact copies of all the files.

In the 80's, I did not get floppies with errors. Very very rare.

However, in the 90's, they were common.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#235383

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-26 05:23 +0000
Message-ID<nf7bj8Fj154U13@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235378
On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 01:34:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> In the 80's, I did not get floppies with errors. Very very rare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Memory_Systems

I had good luck with Elephants. They were cheaper than Memorex.

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#235382

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-26 05:21 +0000
Message-ID<nf7be6Fj154U12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235376
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 21:35:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> 
>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
> 
> Now *there* is a medium I do have first-hand experience with.
> 
> While it was less clunky and perhaps a bit faster than cassette tape, it
> still had reliability problems, too.

Those DSDD 5 1/4 floppies were really something. I send my Osborne 1 back 
to the factory to get the double sided drives installed. Then there was 
the handy little jig so you could cut a notch in a cheaper single sided 
floppy and roll the dice on whether or not it would work. 

At least the 5 1/4 floppies weren't as floppy as the 8" ones.

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#235401

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2026-08-27 12:02 -0400
Message-ID<116pn2a$1jk0m$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235382
rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 21:35:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> 
>>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
>> 
>> Now *there* is a medium I do have first-hand experience with.
>> 
>> While it was less clunky and perhaps a bit faster than cassette tape, it
>> still had reliability problems, too.
>
> Those DSDD 5 1/4 floppies were really something. I send my Osborne 1 back 
> to the factory to get the double sided drives installed. Then there was 
> the handy little jig so you could cut a notch in a cheaper single sided 
> floppy and roll the dice on whether or not it would work. 
>
> At least the 5 1/4 floppies weren't as floppy as the 8" ones.

I did my Ph.D. qualifying exam on a PDP-11 and saved it to an 8"
floppy.

After a few years I got rid of it or lost it.

-- 
	"I keep seeing spots in front of my eyes."
	"Did you ever see a doctor?"
	"No, just spots."

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#235403

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-27 21:12 +0000
Message-ID<nfbnibFprcuU29@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235401
On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 12:02:18 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I did my Ph.D. qualifying exam on a PDP-11 and saved it to an 8"
> floppy.
> 
> After a few years I got rid of it or lost it.

Tack it to the filing cabinet with a refrigerator magnet. The folklore was 
the two greatest dangers to 8" floppies were magnets and pantyhose. 

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#235404

FromPeter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2026-08-27 14:18 -0700
Message-ID<116q9il$1qr41$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235403
I've diligently copied stuff over and over thru the years - 5-1/4 to 
3-1/2" floppy to CD to flash drive - and changed formats - Wordpro to 
Word to Open Office. Very little of it was ever used, but I still have 
some stuff that pre-dates PCs.

On 8/27/26 14:12, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 12:02:18 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>> I did my Ph.D. qualifying exam on a PDP-11 and saved it to an 8"
>> floppy.
>>
>> After a few years I got rid of it or lost it.
> 
> Tack it to the filing cabinet with a refrigerator magnet. The folklore was
> the two greatest dangers to 8" floppies were magnets and pantyhose.

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#235405

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-08-27 21:48 +0000
Message-ID<7h2kS.1078$HWaf.286@fx45.iad>
In reply to#235404
On 2026-08-27, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

> I've diligently copied stuff over and over thru the years - 5-1/4 to 
> 3-1/2" floppy to CD to flash drive - and changed formats - Wordpro to 
> Word to Open Office. Very little of it was ever used, but I still have 
> some stuff that pre-dates PCs.

My stuff that pre-dates PCs is mostly on 9-track tapes
or disk packs for drives which no longer exist.  :-(

If I manage to get my IMSAI going, though, I might be able
to read my 8-inch floppies.  (I've hung onto a machine with
a working 5 1/4-inch floppy drive.)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#235380

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-26 05:14 +0000
Message-ID<nf7b1nFj154U10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235365
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!

Or the IOmega 100 MB zip drives? Now there was storage!

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#235389

FromSpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-08-26 15:02 +0000
Message-ID<1787756575-14325@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#235380
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> posted:

> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> 
> > So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
> 
> Or the IOmega 100 MB zip drives? Now there was storage!

It really was.

I remember the sheer /joy/ of using my Zip drive. 100MB (give or take) 
on a single removable disk felt like magic. Gone were the days where you'd
have to split files over multiple disks to transport them to another computer;
with Zip you'd copy whole directories in one go!

And it even was fast enough to run programs from (well, some programs. Doom 
worked, but you really felt the difference in transfer speeds!). 

Zip drives not only made transfer easier, it got rid of those piles of 
floppies cluttering the place, and made it much easier to back stuff up. It
really transformed the way I used files and computers; moreso than did CD-R
or thumb-drives. It felt so incredibly revolutionary and to this day there's
a part of me that is still surprised that it didn't have more of an impact
on the industry.

What really killed Zip-disk usage for me and mine wasn't better storage mediums 
like optical disks... instead, it was networking. Wiring up all the computers
into a cheap LAN negated a lot of ZIP's advantages; transport was a doddle,
a centralized file-server negated the need for huge hard-drives (or lots of 
zip disks) on local, and everything was more easily backed up. Optical and
solid-state definitely ate into Zip-disk's raison d'être, but it was 
cheap and easy networking that really put the nail into its coffin. At least
for us.

But until that point... magic!



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#235391

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-26 18:54 +0200
Message-ID<lbi3mmxi0r.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#235389
On 2026-08-26 17:02, SpallsHurgenson (NG) wrote:
> 
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> posted:
> 
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:25:08 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>
>>> So where's the floppy drive revival?!!
>>
>> Or the IOmega 100 MB zip drives? Now there was storage!
> 
> It really was.
> 
> I remember the sheer /joy/ of using my Zip drive. 100MB (give or take)
> on a single removable disk felt like magic. Gone were the days where you'd
> have to split files over multiple disks to transport them to another computer;
> with Zip you'd copy whole directories in one go!

When I bought mine, it was 250 megs.

> 
> And it even was fast enough to run programs from (well, some programs. Doom
> worked, but you really felt the difference in transfer speeds!).
> 
> Zip drives not only made transfer easier, it got rid of those piles of
> floppies cluttering the place, and made it much easier to back stuff up. It
> really transformed the way I used files and computers; moreso than did CD-R
> or thumb-drives. It felt so incredibly revolutionary and to this day there's
> a part of me that is still surprised that it didn't have more of an impact
> on the industry.
> 
> What really killed Zip-disk usage for me and mine wasn't better storage mediums
> like optical disks... instead, it was networking. Wiring up all the computers
> into a cheap LAN negated a lot of ZIP's advantages; transport was a doddle,
> a centralized file-server negated the need for huge hard-drives (or lots of
> zip disks) on local, and everything was more easily backed up. Optical and
> solid-state definitely ate into Zip-disk's raison d'être, but it was
> cheap and easy networking that really put the nail into its coffin. At least
> for us.
> 
> But until that point... magic!

Before networked computers, I transferred data via serial or parallel 
computer, thus involving two computers.

I think it was Borland who could compile a C program in one computer, 
and then launch it in another computer, while debugging it in the first. 
THAT was magic, with MsDOS, thus only 1 MB of memory space. The debugger 
took out needed RAM. Launching it in another machine meant that second 
computer only had a tiny stub of the debugger, the big user interface, 
debugger and compiler was in the first machine.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#235395

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-27 00:48 +0000
Message-ID<nf9frcFprcuU14@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235391
On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 18:54:45 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> When I bought mine, it was 250 megs.

I had an internal 100 MB that I tried to use in a Linux box, probably 
early Red Hat Linux. Short lived experiment as the sound of the heads 
crashing against the limits wasn't good. 

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#235399

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-27 08:39 +0200
Message-ID<al25mmx6b8.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#235395
On 2026-08-27 02:48, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 18:54:45 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> When I bought mine, it was 250 megs.
> 
> I had an internal 100 MB that I tried to use in a Linux box, probably
> early Red Hat Linux. Short lived experiment as the sound of the heads
> crashing against the limits wasn't good.

I used my 250 megs in my Linux, no problem.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#235402

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-27 21:10 +0000
Message-ID<nfbndrFprcuU28@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#235399
On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 08:39:06 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2026-08-27 02:48, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 18:54:45 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> 
>>> When I bought mine, it was 250 megs.
>> 
>> I had an internal 100 MB that I tried to use in a Linux box, probably
>> early Red Hat Linux. Short lived experiment as the sound of the heads
>> crashing against the limits wasn't good.
> 
> I used my 250 megs in my Linux, no problem.

My set up may have been valiantly searching for the other 150 MB :)

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#235415

FromSpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 14:53 +0000
Message-ID<1787928830-14325@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#235391
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> posted:
> On 2026-08-26 17:02, SpallsHurgenson (NG) wrote:


> >> Or the IOmega 100 MB zip drives? Now there was storage!


> > I remember the sheer /joy/ of using my Zip drive. 100MB (give or take)
> > on a single removable disk felt like magic. Gone were the days where you'd
> > have to split files over multiple disks to transport them to another computer;
> > with Zip you'd copy whole directories in one go!
 
 
> Before networked computers, I transferred data via serial or parallel 
> computer, thus involving two computers.


I occasionally tried null-modem cables for transfer. It was never 
satisfactory for me. Firstly, you were always limited to just two computers, 
which meant a lot of cable swapping. Then getting the machines to handshake, 
and the slow-transfer rates... it was always easier for me, back then, to 
just yank out the floppy disks. 

Well, at least until the files started getting TOO large to fit on the disk. 
But with 1.44mb floppy disks and good compression, you could usually squeeze 2MB
of data or more on the disk... and really, who needs files larger than that? 
2MB ought to be enough for everybody! ;-)

#

I still have an ancient PC with an IDE Zip-Drive in it. It still 
works (and so do the disks. Click-of-death was an undeniable issue, but
it really wasn't as common as it's sometimes made out to be).

Unfortunately, I don't have a SECOND computer with a ZIP drive, which limits
the utility of the first ;-)



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#235425

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 22:22 +0000
Message-ID<116t1o2$2ok8c$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#235415
On Fri, 28 Aug 2026 14:53:50 GMT, SpallsHurgenson(NG) wrote:

> I occasionally tried null-modem cables for transfer. It was never
> satisfactory for me.

In the early years of my career, I had to do (or assist with) a lot of
file transfers that way, because we had no choice -- the different
platforms had no exchangeable media formats in common.

Kermit was a wonderful tool for this -- there were implementations for
just about every platform.

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