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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161224 > unrolled thread
| Started by | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-19 13:23 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-04-15 08:34 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 62 — 14 participants |
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Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-19 13:23 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 06:46 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-20 13:56 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 04:51 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-21 12:24 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-21 13:53 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:23 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 05:01 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Rob Doyle <radioengr@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 01:50 -0700
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:22 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:24 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:20 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-23 13:23 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 13:58 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 14:00 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:24 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:20 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 04:55 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-26 09:55 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 13:24 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:11 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-27 13:26 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 04:25 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-28 15:58 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-29 13:55 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0200
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 16:17 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 17:57 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:14 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 17:48 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 21:35 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 23:20 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 05:33 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 17:23 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 19:28 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:10 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-31 19:20 +0100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-30 16:32 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 16:55 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:09 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-31 06:22 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:13 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 21:00 -0500
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:49 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 05:29 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-31 03:41 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-31 12:41 +0000
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 05:03 +1100
Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-04-15 08:34 +0000
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-29 17:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cezKy.109506$Gj1.71670@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #161589 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. > >The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >(Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) > >I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >track down a bug the old-fashioned way. Use a _real_ operating system like linux, and you'll get your nice freestanding symbolic debugger sans any IDE requirements.
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| From | Ibmekon <Ibmekon> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-29 21:35 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <veplfbtognmuqfuiov7i7tpsuj10v61899@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #161592 |
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:48:56 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >> >>The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>(Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >> >>I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>track down a bug the old-fashioned way. > >Use a _real_ operating system like linux, and you'll get your >nice freestanding symbolic debugger sans any IDE requirements. On reading your post I got to checking some docs for the IDE Geany. It seems the basic load does not inlcude the GDB symbolic debugger linkage, but installing geany-plugins gives it to me. I have missed using one - as I did in Foxpro. Thanks ! Carl Goldsworthy -- Yes, I am paranoid. And yes, they aaaarrrgggg
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-29 23:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ndf2js2r6t@news4.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #161592 |
On 2016-03-29, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > >> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >> >> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >> >> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. > > Use a _real_ operating system like linux, and you'll get your > nice freestanding symbolic debugger sans any IDE requirements. I'll do that as soon as I convince all our customers to switch from Windows. That'll happen some time after I convince our user interface programmer to ditch Visual Basic. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 05:33 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <G-qdnfTllPCCymbLnZ2dnUU78VfNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #161608 |
On 30/03/2016 00:20, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2016-03-29, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >> >>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>> >>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>> >>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >> >> Use a _real_ operating system like linux, and you'll get your >> nice freestanding symbolic debugger sans any IDE requirements. > > I'll do that as soon as I convince all our customers to switch > from Windows. That'll happen some time after I convince our > user interface programmer to ditch Visual Basic. > Does Microsoft still support Visual Basic? If not your interface programmer will have to learn a replacement to stay in work. Learn and get the experience whilst being paid by your current boss.
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| From | "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 17:23 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dm19nkF64amU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161614 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:G-qdnfTllPCCymbLnZ2dnUU78VfNnZ2d@giganews.com... > On 30/03/2016 00:20, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2016-03-29, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: >> >>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>>> >>>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>>> >>>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >>> >>> Use a _real_ operating system like linux, and you'll get your >>> nice freestanding symbolic debugger sans any IDE requirements. >> >> I'll do that as soon as I convince all our customers to switch >> from Windows. That'll happen some time after I convince our >> user interface programmer to ditch Visual Basic. >> > > Does Microsoft still support Visual Basic? Of course it does, and it has a decent debugger with the equivalent of SET BREAK on both execution of a bit of code, at the source code level, and on variables being changed too. If not your interface > programmer will have to learn a replacement to stay in work. Not if you don’t care about support. > Learn and get the experience whilst being paid by your current boss.
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| From | Ibmekon <Ibmekon> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-29 19:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <k5hlfbh23rt5v962noe27947i1p5o690n8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #161589 |
On 29 Mar 2016 17:14:34 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. > >The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >(Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) > >I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >track down a bug the old-fashioned way. Working in C now, I have put lots of // printf commands into my code. These are to be used for emergency debugging by removal of // and recompiling. For regular debugging I use a multi-level switch variable that can start/stop logging of test information to an ASCII log file for online or later viewing. For online monitoring of program functions status information is output to a Mysql database log file with time and date stamping. This I can view anytime I want in a SQL client window. The IDE I use for compilation is Geany - the code coloring is nice - unfortunately I have my own code creation system. There is a window for compiler messages - but no online debugger. What I want for my birthday is to add on-request scrolling window of my debug ASCII log. Carl Goldsworthy -- Yes, I am paranoid. And yes, they aaaarrrgggg
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| From | "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 11:10 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ndjhuo$mei$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #161595 |
<Ibmekon> wrote in message news:k5hlfbh23rt5v962noe27947i1p5o690n8@4ax.com... > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > The IDE I use for compilation is Geany - the code coloring is nice - > unfortunately I have my own code creation system. > There is a window for compiler messages - but no online debugger. > Does your own "code creation system" involve a box of colored pencils??? :-) -- numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| From | Ibmekon <Ibmekon> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 19:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <kfqqfbhghr1mt6jgmsidkt88ielutef4rc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #161722 |
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:10:01 -0500, "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote: ><Ibmekon> wrote in message >news:k5hlfbh23rt5v962noe27947i1p5o690n8@4ax.com... >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> The IDE I use for compilation is Geany - the code coloring is nice - >> unfortunately I have my own code creation system. >> There is a window for compiler messages - but no online debugger. >> > >Does your own "code creation system" involve a box of colored pencils??? :-) Almost - it is in a 24x80 text window using NCURSES C library. Deliberately limited, to concentrate the mind on the logical process of program creation. I did consider 40x12 - but was using COBOL at the time with 30 char names - just too small. For some reason that escapes me, I later allowed myself the luxury of a few colors. It just writes out the code for the whole system, or a single program as needed. Geany picks up the C changed source code. All being well, it will compile and run without crashes. Of course, it is not quite perfect yet....so a debugger will get used. Carl Goldsworthy -- Yes, I am paranoid. And yes, they aaaarrrgggg
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00052F447554667A@aca40b23.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #161589 |
Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. > > The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. > (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run > the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) > > I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had > with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register > your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells > and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to > track down a bug the old-fashioned way. > You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). PRINTFs don't tell you where and which other files are used to COMPIL/LINK/EXECUTE your code. The SET BREAK can also help when the monitor(kernal) is executing code in your behalf. /BAH
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 16:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ndgv2v148b@news6.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #161639 |
On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >> >> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >> >> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. > > You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) > PRINTFs don't tell you where and which other files are used to > COMPIL/LINK/EXECUTE your code. No, my makefile tells me (and the system) that. > The SET BREAK can also help when the monitor(kernal) is executing > code in your behalf. I have very little DEC experience so I can't say much about their debugging tools. However, that old Lattice debugger gave me what sounds like equivalent functionality - albeit much more slowly due to the fact that it had to emulate the machine in order to have access to all the stuff it needed. Modern hardware assists no doubt are much more like the SET BREAK capabililty you're talking about. All I need now is a modern debugger that can use this capability without bringing along all the IDE baggage. Meanwhile, I get by with my log files. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 16:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ryTKy.67006$bB1.37157@fx30.iad> |
| In reply to | #161653 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>> >>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>> >>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >> >> You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). > >There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) Duck is, however, a brand-name for Duct tape.
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| From | "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 04:09 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dm2fj1Ffs1gU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161661 |
"Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message news:ryTKy.67006$bB1.37157@fx30.iad... > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>>> >>>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>>> >>>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >>> >>> You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). >> >>There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) > > Duck is, however, a brand-name for Duct tape. It was actually the original name, before it got used on ducts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 06:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ndifno04rc@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #161664 |
On 2016-03-30, 764hho <764hho@nospam.com> wrote: > "Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message > news:ryTKy.67006$bB1.37157@fx30.iad... > >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >> >>> On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>>>> >>>>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>>>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>>>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>>>> >>>>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>>>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>>>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>>>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>>>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >>>> >>>> You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). >>> >>> There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) >> >> Duck is, however, a brand-name for Duct tape. > > It was actually the original name, before it got used on ducts. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology Oh, _that_ duck. And here I thought someone was just pandering to the rising general illiteracy. (Well, they probably are...) -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 11:13 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ndji61$nbn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #161689 |
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message news:ndifno04rc@news3.newsguy.com... > On 2016-03-30, 764hho <764hho@nospam.com> wrote: > >> "Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message >> news:ryTKy.67006$bB1.37157@fx30.iad... >> >>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>>>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>>>>> >>>>>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>>>>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>>>>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>>>>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>>>>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>>>>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>>>>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >>>>> >>>>> You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). >>>> >>>> There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) >>> >>> Duck is, however, a brand-name for Duct tape. >> >> It was actually the original name, before it got used on ducts. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology > > Oh, _that_ duck. And here I thought someone was just pandering > to the rising general illiteracy. (Well, they probably are...) > Data: I am pursuing an untamed ornithoid. Captain: Do you mean you are on a wild goose chase??? Data: Did I not just say that??? -- numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| From | JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 21:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <5hlrfbd1g5p1035q74gorl1gidh7b9eusl@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #161723 |
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:13:55 -0500, "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote: >"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message >news:ndifno04rc@news3.newsguy.com... >> On 2016-03-30, 764hho <764hho@nospam.com> wrote: >> >>> "Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message >>> news:ryTKy.67006$bB1.37157@fx30.iad... >>> >>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>>> >>>>> On 2016-03-30, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>>>>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >>>>>>> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >>>>>>> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >>>>>>> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >>>>>>> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >>>>>>> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >>>>>>> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >>>>>> >>>>>> You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). >>>>> >>>>> There are no ducks in my ducts. :-) >>>> >>>> Duck is, however, a brand-name for Duct tape. >>> >>> It was actually the original name, before it got used on ducts. >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology >> >> Oh, _that_ duck. And here I thought someone was just pandering >> to the rising general illiteracy. (Well, they probably are...) >> > >Data: I am pursuing an untamed ornithoid. > >Captain: Do you mean you are on a wild goose chase??? > >Data: Did I not just say that??? There is in fact a brand of Duck Duct Tape. Its logo is a Duck.
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| From | "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 03:49 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dm2ed2Ffi00U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161639 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM00052F447554667A@aca40b23.ipt.aol.com... > Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2016-03-29, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >> >> The same way we always did: sprinkle printf()s through our code. >> (Actually, I insert writes to a log file instead - then I can run >> the log through various tools for a more comprehensive analysis.) >> >> I'd love to have a nice freestanding symbolic debugger like I had >> with Lattice C under MS-DOS. But nowadays they want you to register >> your program as a "project" under some huge IDE full of so many bells >> and whistles that it takes more time to set it up than it does to >> track down a bug the old-fashioned way. >> > You still have at least one thumb duck-taped behind your back :-). > PRINTFs don't tell you where and which other files are used to > COMPIL/LINK/EXECUTE your code. Yes, it’s a much cruder way to debug and needs the source code and be able to compile it. So that doesn’t work when trying to find the last point with Adventure type games. > The SET BREAK can also help when the monitor > (kernal) is executing code in your behalf. But doesn’t help you to find the last point in an adventure type game. You need to be able to search the code for other code that references where the points are stored, so you can read that code and see what criteria that code requires before it will give you the last point.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 05:29 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dlvvshFqrfaU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161574 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM00052F3041A748FE@aca412e9.ipt.aol.com... > Charles Richmond wrote: >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM00052F07BAB82A98@aca41172.ipt.aol.com... >>> Rod Speed wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>>>> Reading code and determining when it's invoked (such as setting a bit >>>>> for >>>>> a score) can be complicated if it involves 3 conditions :-). IIRC, >>>>> the point was set when a vase was placed on a pillow in a particular >>>>> room. That's 3 conditions: the vase and pillow had to be acquired >>>>> and then the room where they were to be placed had to be found. >>>> >>>> And that can't be done with JUST SET BREAK, whatever you claim. >>>> >>> Just because you can't do it does not mean that a TOPS-10 guru >>> can't do it. >>> >> >> Nothing works in Speedo's delusional world! >> > Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without > the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. They don’t, particularly with SET BREAK. But that is a quite separate matter to whether it can be use ALONE to find the last point with Adventure.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00052F446C047571@aca40b23.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #161594 |
Rod Speed wrote: > > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM00052F3041A748FE@aca412e9.ipt.aol.com... >> Charles Richmond wrote: >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:PM00052F07BAB82A98@aca41172.ipt.aol.com... >>>> Rod Speed wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>>>> Reading code and determining when it's invoked (such as setting a bit >>>>>> for >>>>>> a score) can be complicated if it involves 3 conditions :-). IIRC, >>>>>> the point was set when a vase was placed on a pillow in a particular >>>>>> room. That's 3 conditions: the vase and pillow had to be acquired >>>>>> and then the room where they were to be placed had to be found. >>>>> >>>>> And that can't be done with JUST SET BREAK, whatever you claim. >>>>> >>>> Just because you can't do it does not mean that a TOPS-10 guru >>>> can't do it. >>>> >>> >>> Nothing works in Speedo's delusional world! >>> >> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. > > They don’t, particularly with SET BREAK. > > But that is a quite separate matter to whether it can be use ALONE > to find the last point with Adventure. Now go back and reread what I originally wrote. Pay attention to the word filcom and its surroundings. /BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 03:41 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dm2dubFfe15U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161637 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM00052F446C047571@aca40b23.ipt.aol.com... > Rod Speed wrote: >> >> >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM00052F3041A748FE@aca412e9.ipt.aol.com... >>> Charles Richmond wrote: >>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>> news:PM00052F07BAB82A98@aca41172.ipt.aol.com... >>>>> Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>>>> Reading code and determining when it's invoked (such as setting a >>>>>>> bit >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> a score) can be complicated if it involves 3 conditions :-). IIRC, >>>>>>> the point was set when a vase was placed on a pillow in a particular >>>>>>> room. That's 3 conditions: the vase and pillow had to be acquired >>>>>>> and then the room where they were to be placed had to be found. >>>>>> >>>>>> And that can't be done with JUST SET BREAK, whatever you claim. >>>>>> >>>>> Just because you can't do it does not mean that a TOPS-10 guru >>>>> can't do it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nothing works in Speedo's delusional world! >>>> >>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >> >> They don’t, particularly with SET BREAK. >> >> But that is a quite separate matter to whether it can be use ALONE >> to find the last point with Adventure. > > Now go back and reread what I originally wrote. No thanks, I have an excellent memory. > Pay attention to the word filcom and its surroundings. Doesn’t help with your original silly claim that SET BREAK ALONE can be used to find the last point with Adventure. It can't, you have to examine the code once you work out where the appropriate code is once you work out which variables are used to store the points you have achieved and where the program stores the actions you have taken like picking up a magazine etc and then see what other code references those. SET BREAK ALONE can't do any of that because it doesn’t get triggered unless the player gets that last point and by definition that is what you don’t know how to do.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-31 12:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00052F57642FC099@aca4282e.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #161656 |
Rod Speed wrote: > > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM00052F446C047571@aca40b23.ipt.aol.com... >> Rod Speed wrote: >>> >>> >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:PM00052F3041A748FE@aca412e9.ipt.aol.com... >>>> Charles Richmond wrote: >>>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:PM00052F07BAB82A98@aca41172.ipt.aol.com... >>>>>> Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>>>> >>>>>> <snip> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Reading code and determining when it's invoked (such as setting a >>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> a score) can be complicated if it involves 3 conditions :-). IIRC, >>>>>>>> the point was set when a vase was placed on a pillow in a particular >>>>>>>> room. That's 3 conditions: the vase and pillow had to be acquired >>>>>>>> and then the room where they were to be placed had to be found. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And that can't be done with JUST SET BREAK, whatever you claim. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Just because you can't do it does not mean that a TOPS-10 guru >>>>>> can't do it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nothing works in Speedo's delusional world! >>>>> >>>> Frankly, I don't know how people debug these days without >>>> the SET WATCH FILE VERSION and SET BREAK command functionality. >>> >>> They don’t, particularly with SET BREAK. >>> >>> But that is a quite separate matter to whether it can be use ALONE >>> to find the last point with Adventure. >> >> Now go back and reread what I originally wrote. > > No thanks, I have an excellent memory. > >> Pay attention to the word filcom and its surroundings. > > Doesn’t help with your original silly claim that SET BREAK > ALONE can be used to find the last point with Adventure. > > It can't, you have to examine the code once you work > out where the appropriate code is once you work out > which variables are used to store the points you have > achieved and where the program stores the actions > you have taken like picking up a magazine etc and > then see what other code references those. SET BREAK > ALONE can't do any of that because it doesn’t get > triggered unless the player gets that last point and > by definition that is what you don’t know how to do. > You still haven't understood the origianl instructions. Go reread it. /BAH
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