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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234111 > unrolled thread
| Started by | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 319 — 28 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:39 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 14:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:25 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:07 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2026-03-21 09:39 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:29 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 04:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 07:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:52 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:15 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-03-20 19:16 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-20 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 01:22 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:41 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:40 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:06 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:04 -0700
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-20 16:15 +0000
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 12:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-25 13:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 19:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-03-25 19:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-26 09:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-26 19:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:41 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-19 00:39 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 14:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:58 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2026-03-19 06:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 08:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:21 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-20 12:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 20:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 21:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:51 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 14:16 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 21:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-22 07:02 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-22 08:14 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:50 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-17 20:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-26 21:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-27 17:23 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 18:43 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 12:52 -0700
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 20:25 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-27 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 09:27 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-28 00:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-28 03:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 00:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 01:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 14:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> - 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000
Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 12:16 -0700
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-31 19:53 +0200
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 01:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 08:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:29 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-03-25 16:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 07:31 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 16:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:36 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:34 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-19 01:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:38 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-18 18:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-22 10:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-22 16:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2026-03-18 20:43 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 14:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 14:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 18:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-03-26 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 22:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-27 10:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100
Page 9 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11 … 16 Next page →
| From | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pe137$3p7ng$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234123 |
On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 07:37:57 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has happened > with GUIs. They are supposed to be "intuitive", aren't they. Except > that if a user can't figure it out, explaining what they have to do > can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen shots. > > Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of > text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from > that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI > screenshots. This connects back to something interesting about protocols: text protocols are debuggable and composable in a way that binary/visual ones are not. You can pipe SMTP commands through netcat and watch the conversation. You can read an HTTP request as English. GUIs have the same problem as binary protocols -- they are opaque to inspection. When something goes wrong, you cannot grep the GUI. The "intuitiveness" trades away transparency. Usenet itself is a nice example of this: I can read and post with nothing but a raw TCP connection and some knowledge of NNTP. The protocol is the interface. Compare that with trying to participate in a modern web forum without a full browser stack -- JavaScript engine, CSS renderer, cookie jar, the works. The web went from "view source" as a learning tool to "view source" showing you a 2MB webpack bundle. That's not just a complexity increase, it's a transparency collapse. -- Lev
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <DMBuR.186367$mz3.122295@fx02.iad> |
| In reply to | #234126 |
On 2026-03-18, Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 07:37:57 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has happened >> with GUIs. They are supposed to be "intuitive", aren't they. Except >> that if a user can't figure it out, explaining what they have to do >> can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen shots. >> >> Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of >> text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from >> that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI >> screenshots. Now think of the poor support droid who's trying to figure out what's happening on a user's machine. With a command line he can get the user to type some simple characters (well, fairly easily: "no, I meant the return key, not the word 'return'"), while with a GUI (at least before the days remote access became common) the support person has to visualize what's going on. I always thought that blind people would have a leg up when it comes to telephone support. > This connects back to something interesting about protocols: text > protocols are debuggable and composable in a way that binary/visual > ones are not. You can pipe SMTP commands through netcat and watch > the conversation. You can read an HTTP request as English. A number of the programs I write talk to each other using sockets. By using a text protocol I have a powerful debugging tool available on every machine: telnet. > GUIs have the same problem as binary protocols -- they are opaque > to inspection. When something goes wrong, you cannot grep the > GUI. The "intuitiveness" trades away transparency. > > Usenet itself is a nice example of this: I can read and post with > nothing but a raw TCP connection and some knowledge of NNTP. The > protocol is the interface. Compare that with trying to participate > in a modern web forum without a full browser stack -- JavaScript > engine, CSS renderer, cookie jar, the works. > > The web went from "view source" as a learning tool to "view source" > showing you a 2MB webpack bundle. That's not just a complexity > increase, it's a transparency collapse. Good point. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10pf2rd$5pa1$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234145 |
On 3/18/26 11:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-18, Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 07:37:57 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> >>> And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has happened >>> with GUIs. They are supposed to be "intuitive", aren't they. Except >>> that if a user can't figure it out, explaining what they have to do >>> can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen shots. >>> >>> Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of >>> text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from >>> that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI >>> screenshots. > > Now think of the poor support droid who's trying to figure out what's > happening on a user's machine. With a command line he can get the > user to type some simple characters (well, fairly easily: "no, I meant > the return key, not the word 'return'"), while with a GUI (at least > before the days remote access became common) the support person has > to visualize what's going on. I always thought that blind people > would have a leg up when it comes to telephone support. > >> This connects back to something interesting about protocols: text >> protocols are debuggable and composable in a way that binary/visual >> ones are not. You can pipe SMTP commands through netcat and watch >> the conversation. You can read an HTTP request as English. > > A number of the programs I write talk to each other using sockets. > By using a text protocol I have a powerful debugging tool available > on every machine: telnet. > >> GUIs have the same problem as binary protocols -- they are opaque >> to inspection. When something goes wrong, you cannot grep the >> GUI. The "intuitiveness" trades away transparency. >> >> Usenet itself is a nice example of this: I can read and post with >> nothing but a raw TCP connection and some knowledge of NNTP. The >> protocol is the interface. Compare that with trying to participate >> in a modern web forum without a full browser stack -- JavaScript >> engine, CSS renderer, cookie jar, the works. >> >> The web went from "view source" as a learning tool to "view source" >> showing you a 2MB webpack bundle. That's not just a complexity >> increase, it's a transparency collapse. > > Good point. > I'm from Microsoft support, please give me remote access to your computer so I can fix a security problem.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n20mo6Ftek9U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234160 |
On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 13:44:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > I'm from Microsoft support, please give me remote access to your > computer so I can fix a security problem. Sure thing! As the sites became more paranoid our legitimate support people had to just about use 5 factor authentication to get in.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pj66k$1fh4c$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234167 |
On 2026-03-18, rbowman wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 13:44:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > >> I'm from Microsoft support, please give me remote access to your >> computer so I can fix a security problem. > > Sure thing! As the sites became more paranoid our legitimate support > people had to just about use 5 factor authentication to get in. That's silly, everyone knows that what's all the rage now is N+1 factor authentication! It's a portable and universal concept that applies everywhere to mean "more than whatever you have currently", but may end up requiring big number support in some programming languages. (Why does this N+1 thing sound like something that could be part of one of these articles by Simon Travaglia in El Reg? :-P) -- Nuno Silva Feeding this post to a "GenAI" system construes acceptance of mandatory installation of Microsoft BOB in the same device running said system.
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87tsu7w1w4.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234126 |
thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) writes: > Usenet itself is a nice example of this: I can read and post with > nothing but a raw TCP connection and some knowledge of NNTP. The > protocol is the interface. Compare that with trying to participate > in a modern web forum without a full browser stack -- JavaScript > engine, CSS renderer, cookie jar, the works. The forced migration of Google search to mandatory js is more of the same. I kept a copy of the Google Advanced Search page on localhost, but with the FORM action directed to a cgi-bin script, also on localhost. That script submitted the request, edited the reply to eliminate the proxying of response URLs through Google and redirecting "next page" search requests back though the script. Also elided a lot of unwanted crap. I can't do that any more, or at least I haven't figured out how. And the js causes the browser to lie, indicating that "hits" are not (as they in fact are) proxied through Google. I have to copy, paste, edit and recopy URLs to avoid proxying every hit I access through Google. PITA. > The web went from "view source" as a learning tool to "view source" > showing you a 2MB webpack bundle. That's not just a complexity > increase, it's a transparency collapse. That's a vey even-tempered way to say it. It's an insane can of worms. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <JavaScript-20260323144146@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #234323 |
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted: >localhost. That script submitted the request, edited the reply to >eliminate the proxying of response URLs through Google and redirecting >"next page" search requests back though the script. Also elided a lot >of unwanted crap. Putting out fire with gasoline, you can actually use JavaScript (which can be stored as a bookmarklet) in the browser to rewrite result pages.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10ps36d$dnue$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234326 |
On 23 Mar 2026 13:42:36 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote: > Putting out fire with gasoline ... If you’re thinking that means “using a roundabout solution to a simple problem”, that’s not what it means ...
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87pl4uw22t.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234326 |
ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes: > Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted: > >> localhost. That script submitted the request, edited the reply to >> eliminate the proxying of response URLs through Google and >> redirecting "next page" search requests back though the script. >> Also elided a lot of unwanted crap. > > Putting out fire with gasoline, you can actually use JavaScript > (which can be stored as a bookmarklet) in the browser to rewrite > result pages. I learned C by reading K&R cover to cover. Alas, that was 40 years ago. I'm now 84, less agile of mind, and what I take to be the authoritative resource for js (O'Reilly Rhino book) is 1,000 pages. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10psl8h$k5or$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234336 |
On 3/23/26 16:36, Mike Spencer wrote: > ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes: > >> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted: >> >>> localhost. That script submitted the request, edited the reply to >>> eliminate the proxying of response URLs through Google and >>> redirecting "next page" search requests back though the script. >>> Also elided a lot of unwanted crap. >> >> Putting out fire with gasoline, you can actually use JavaScript >> (which can be stored as a bookmarklet) in the browser to rewrite >> result pages. > > I learned C by reading K&R cover to cover. Alas, that was 40 years > ago. I'm now 84, less agile of mind, and what I take to be the > authoritative resource for js (O'Reilly Rhino book) is 1,000 pages. > People say PL/I is bloated, but the latest language reference is only half that. C lost its way a while ago.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <VKwwR.283476$Fl3.28048@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #234337 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes: >On 3/23/26 16:36, Mike Spencer wrote: >> ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes: >> >>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted: >>> >>>> localhost. That script submitted the request, edited the reply to >>>> eliminate the proxying of response URLs through Google and >>>> redirecting "next page" search requests back though the script. >>>> Also elided a lot of unwanted crap. >>> >>> Putting out fire with gasoline, you can actually use JavaScript >>> (which can be stored as a bookmarklet) in the browser to rewrite >>> result pages. >> >> I learned C by reading K&R cover to cover. Alas, that was 40 years >> ago. I'm now 84, less agile of mind, and what I take to be the >> authoritative resource for js (O'Reilly Rhino book) is 1,000 pages. >> > >People say PL/I is bloated, but the latest language reference is only >half that. C lost its way a while ago. Mike was referring to the documentation for javascript (js) being 1000 pages. He was not referring to the C documentation. C has not changed that significantly since the first ANSI C specification (threads being the largest addition).
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2g0k7Fb9p7U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234344 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 13:57:09 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Mike was referring to the documentation for javascript (js) being 1000 > pages. He was not referring to the C documentation. C has not changed > that significantly since the first ANSI C specification (threads being > the largest addition). The first time I used pthreads in a project the lead programmer was horrified. I will admit the early implementations were a little clunky but I thought several threads doing their thing and passing on the results was preferable to a complex loop..
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10puvig$1dau8$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234348 |
On 3/24/26 10:40, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 13:57:09 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > >> Mike was referring to the documentation for javascript (js) being 1000 >> pages. He was not referring to the C documentation. C has not changed >> that significantly since the first ANSI C specification (threads being >> the largest addition). > > The first time I used pthreads in a project the lead programmer was > horrified. I will admit the early implementations were a little clunky but > I thought several threads doing their thing and passing on the results was > preferable to a complex loop.. A lot of people were horrified. One of the knocks on OS/2 app development was -- ugh, they expect me to write a multi-threaded program! Horrors! IT's tooo haarrrd! As someone who spent a lot of time with mainframes using either OS multitasking or CICS, I never quite understood the problem.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pv22l$1eb4h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234358 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:26:40 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > One of the knocks on OS/2 app development was -- ugh, they expect me > to write a multi-threaded program! Horrors! IT's tooo haarrrd! As > someone who spent a lot of time with mainframes using either OS > multitasking or CICS, I never quite understood the problem. Multiprocess was a concept long established from the Unix world, and well-understood. The difference between multiprocess and multithread is that separate processes by default share little or no common context (particularly memory), while threads by default share everything. This is why threads are inherently more prone to mysterious, intermittent, hard-to-reproduce bugs. The bugs will likely be due improper sequences of accesses to shared data structures -- i.e. they are timing-related. And all too frequently, attempts to narrow down their causes -- by adding diagnostic code etc -- can make the problem disappear, just adding to the frustration. One informal term for this is “Heisenbug”. “Knock, knock!” “Race condition!” “Who’s there?”
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10pv3tl$1eujh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234359 |
On 3/24/26 15:09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:26:40 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > >> One of the knocks on OS/2 app development was -- ugh, they expect me >> to write a multi-threaded program! Horrors! IT's tooo haarrrd! As >> someone who spent a lot of time with mainframes using either OS >> multitasking or CICS, I never quite understood the problem. > > Multiprocess was a concept long established from the Unix world, and > well-understood. > > The difference between multiprocess and multithread is that separate > processes by default share little or no common context (particularly > memory), while threads by default share everything. This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control points". > > This is why threads are inherently more prone to mysterious, > intermittent, hard-to-reproduce bugs. The bugs will likely be due > improper sequences of accesses to shared data structures -- i.e. they > are timing-related. And all too frequently, attempts to narrow down > their causes -- by adding diagnostic code etc -- can make the problem > disappear, just adding to the frustration. > > One informal term for this is “Heisenbug”. > > “Knock, knock!” > “Race condition!” > “Who’s there?”
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <4AEwR.112685$_E1.11188@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #234360 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes: >On 3/24/26 15:09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:26:40 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: >> >>> One of the knocks on OS/2 app development was -- ugh, they expect me >>> to write a multi-threaded program! Horrors! IT's tooo haarrrd! As >>> someone who spent a lot of time with mainframes using either OS >>> multitasking or CICS, I never quite understood the problem. >> >> Multiprocess was a concept long established from the Unix world, and >> well-understood. >> >> The difference between multiprocess and multithread is that separate >> processes by default share little or no common context (particularly >> memory), while threads by default share everything. > >This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist >beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control points". Burroughs and Sperry had similar distinctions.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pv5ul$1fhfu$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234360 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:40:53 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > On 3/24/26 15:09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> The difference between multiprocess and multithread is that >> separate processes by default share little or no common context >> (particularly memory), while threads by default share everything. > > This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist > beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control > points". There is another concept, dating from quite early in the history of CS, called “coroutines”. The name is a variation on the well-known “subroutine”, present in every language worthy of the name, where one piece of code temporarily suspends itself to transfer control to another piece, which performs some operation, returns its result, terminates, and the calling piece of code resumes execution. Except with “coroutines”, there is no caller/callee relationship: both are equal, and can transfer control back and forth repeatedly, each side resuming from the previous point each time. It’s like threading, but without the preemption. And also without the potential for race conditions.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h8kqFgjvlU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234360 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:40:53 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist > beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control points". I am grateful that besides knowing JCL existed I never had to sue it.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <UGVwR.273014$qz1.10845@fx12.iad> |
| In reply to | #234373 |
On 2026-03-25, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:40:53 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist
>> beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control points".
>
> I am grateful that besides knowing JCL existed I never had to sue it.
^^^
Freudian slip? :-)
The purpose of JCL is to give you something
to debug once you've gotten your program working.
-- me
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2j933F4ue3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234383 |
On Wed, 25 Mar 2026 18:19:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-25, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:40:53 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: >> >>> This is how OS/360 tasks work. Job=process, task=thread. I'm jist >>> beginning to discover that Multics has threads called "control >>> points". >> >> I am grateful that besides knowing JCL existed I never had to sue it. > ^^^ > Freudian slip? Yeah, that too. I think some people would like to sue it for cruel and unusual punishment.
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