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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234111 > unrolled thread
| Started by | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 319 — 28 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:39 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 14:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:25 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:07 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2026-03-21 09:39 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:29 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 04:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 07:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:52 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:15 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-03-20 19:16 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-20 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 01:22 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:41 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:40 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:06 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:04 -0700
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-20 16:15 +0000
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 12:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-25 13:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 19:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-03-25 19:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-26 09:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-26 19:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:41 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-19 00:39 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 14:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:58 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2026-03-19 06:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 08:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:21 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-20 12:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 20:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 21:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:51 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 14:16 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 21:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-22 07:02 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-22 08:14 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:50 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-17 20:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-26 21:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-27 17:23 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 18:43 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 12:52 -0700
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 20:25 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-27 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 09:27 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-28 00:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-28 03:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 00:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 01:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 14:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> - 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000
Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 12:16 -0700
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-31 19:53 +0200
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 01:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 08:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:29 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-03-25 16:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 07:31 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 16:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:36 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:34 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-19 01:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:38 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-18 18:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-22 10:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-22 16:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2026-03-18 20:43 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 14:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 14:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 18:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-03-26 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 22:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-27 10:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100
Page 13 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 Next page →
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h727FgjvlU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234355 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:38:48 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > A key difference between then and now is mobility, of both people and > information. Up until WWII, people seldom left their village, town or > city. The only national news would have been via the local newspaper, > and after WWI, via radio, which in both cases would color such news with > regional bias. Reading books (and the typical farmer may only have > time for that during the winter) > could provide a wider worldview to the reader, but the avialability of > any particular book would depend on the regional library or the rare > bookstore. I wouldn't paint with too broad a brush. Some did, some didn't. I've known college educated professionals in Boston who thought anything west of 128 was populated by dragons. NYC is the same. Those cartoons showing LA on the other side of New Jersey have a lot of truth. The US west of the Appalachians didn't get settled by magic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_of_the_World_(film) Interesting movie and a little more uplifting than some of the current crap.. I suppose at one time it would be worth 10 cents to listen to someone read from newspapers from someplace else.
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10puvd1$1dau8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234347 |
I still like radio dramas. I had Sirius for a while, and one of their channels was old-time radio dramas. Great listening in the car. It's a shame no one does them now. On 3/24/26 10:35, rbowman wrote: > On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > > >> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: >> >>> Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" >>> would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee. >> >> Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing >> generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up >> their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of >> their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different. > > They had radio though. Some of the old radio dramas do an impressive job > of creating a setting. I think you would have to go back to the times when > you did not have entertainment on demand. Unless you played an instrument > music at a get together would be a big thing, likewise a traveling show > putting on a play or minstrel performance. >
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h7nuFgjvlU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234357 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:23:45 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > I still like radio dramas. I had Sirius for a while, and one of their > channels was old-time radio dramas. Great listening in the car. It's a > shame no one does them now. I'm not a big fans of audio books but I have hit a few that were really well done. I often get ebooks from the library but didn't realize William Gibson's 'The Peripheral' read by Lorelei King was an audio book. The problem was it ruined Amazon's adaptation for me. There were technical things that can be imagined but not brought to film but King had brought the characters to life in my mind's eye and the film didn't match.
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10q0rll$20lr0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234371 |
On 3/24/26 21:47, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:23:45 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > >> I still like radio dramas. I had Sirius for a while, and one of their >> channels was old-time radio dramas. Great listening in the car. It's a >> shame no one does them now. > > I'm not a big fans of audio books but I have hit a few that were really > well done. I often get ebooks from the library but didn't realize William > Gibson's 'The Peripheral' read by Lorelei King was an audio book. > > The problem was it ruined Amazon's adaptation for me. There were technical > things that can be imagined but not brought to film but King had brought > the characters to life in my mind's eye and the film didn't match. > Audio books and radio plays are not the same thing.
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87ldfhwupl.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234327 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > >> Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning >> complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs >> will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? > > (After "stunning", insert "and often gratuitous") > > I'm afraid you might be right. It's bound to collapse sooner > or later - and maybe then the KISS principle will re-emerge > from the wreckage. "Gratuitous" basicly means "free" or "gift" but often is intended to mean "superfluous" or "excess unnecessary baggage". I see the above-mentioned complexity as intrinsic to the size of global population in the context of global capitalism and tele- and datacom. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <f8AwR.716331$fo3.125606@fx22.iad> |
| In reply to | #234341 |
On 2026-03-24, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > >> On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: >> >>> Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning >>> complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs >>> will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? >> >> (After "stunning", insert "and often gratuitous") >> >> I'm afraid you might be right. It's bound to collapse sooner >> or later - and maybe then the KISS principle will re-emerge >> from the wreckage. > > "Gratuitous" basicly means "free" or "gift" but often is intended to mean > "superfluous" or "excess unnecessary baggage". I see the above-mentioned > complexity as intrinsic to the size of global population in the > context of global capitalism and tele- and datacom. Yet another argument against population growth... -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10puscb$1c67m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234349 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Yet another argument against population growth... A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. That’s not a happy place to be.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <MuFwR.144959$362.19227@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #234354 |
On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Yet another argument against population growth... > > A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. > That’s not a happy place to be. It's a bump. It'll pass. Meanwhile, the caregivers for those old people will age themselves, and the cycle repeats - but if population is increasing, each cycle will be worse than the one before. Maybe it's time to once again bring out my back-of-the-envelope calculation that shows if our population continues to double every 40 years, the entire mass of the planet will be turned into a mass of people, crawling over each other like a swarm of bees, in 1800 years. (If you can't wait that long, we'll have one person for every square meter of dry land in 600 years.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pve45$1i0vk$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234363 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 23:54:20 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Yet another argument against population growth... >> >> A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. >> That’s not a happy place to be. > > It's a bump. It'll pass. How will it pass? As women get educated, their desire to have children lessens.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h8rmFha0eU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234364 |
On Wed, 25 Mar 2026 01:35:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 23:54:20 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> Yet another argument against population growth... >>> >>> A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. >>> That’s not a happy place to be. >> >> It's a bump. It'll pass. > > How will it pass? As women get educated, their desire to have children > lessens. The corollary being only the uneducated reproduce -- and vote. 'Democracy' will be a wondrous thing when the mean IQ is 85.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <10pvgci$163b$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #234363 |
According to Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>: >On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Yet another argument against population growth... >> >> A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. >> That’s not a happy place to be. > >It's a bump. It'll pass. UN demographers disagree with you. The world's population is currently about 8.3 billion. The expect it to peak around 10 billion in 2084, and then shrink. The US has a higher birth rate than most other rich countries and even here we've been below replacement fertility for the past 50 years. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10pvmk4$1ka90$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234363 |
On 3/24/26 16:54, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Yet another argument against population growth... >> >> A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. >> That’s not a happy place to be. > > It's a bump. It'll pass. > > Meanwhile, the caregivers for those old people will age themselves, > and the cycle repeats - but if population is increasing, each cycle > will be worse than the one before. > > Maybe it's time to once again bring out my back-of-the-envelope > calculation that shows if our population continues to double > every 40 years, the entire mass of the planet will be turned > into a mass of people, crawling over each other like a swarm > of bees, in 1800 years. (If you can't wait that long, we'll > have one person for every square meter of dry land in 600 years.) > Doesn't sound like we have to worry about that anymore - at least for a while.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l7SwR.25581$hD1.4601@fx47.iad> |
| In reply to | #234366 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes: >On 3/24/26 16:54, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2026-03-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> Yet another argument against population growth... >>> >>> A country with a low birth rate ends up being full of old people. >>> That’s not a happy place to be. >> >> It's a bump. It'll pass. >> >> Meanwhile, the caregivers for those old people will age themselves, >> and the cycle repeats - but if population is increasing, each cycle >> will be worse than the one before. >> >> Maybe it's time to once again bring out my back-of-the-envelope >> calculation that shows if our population continues to double >> every 40 years, the entire mass of the planet will be turned >> into a mass of people, crawling over each other like a swarm >> of bees, in 1800 years. (If you can't wait that long, we'll >> have one person for every square meter of dry land in 600 years.) >> > >Doesn't sound like we have to worry about that anymore - at least for a >while. I disagree. It is not just population growth; there are a number of factors, see: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m This is a physics-based analysis of energy usage, economics, and population growth. Part 1 is very instructive (and somewhat depressing).
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <10q125m$269n$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #234376 |
According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >I disagree. It is not just population growth; there are a number of factors, see: > >https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m > >This is a physics-based analysis of energy usage, economics, >and population growth. > >Part 1 is very instructive (and somewhat depressing). It's surprisingly poorly informed. He seems unaware of actual demographic trends, with fertility in even poor countries dropping a lot faster than anyone expected a decade ago. Citing "The Population Bomb" is a giveaway, a book full of predictions that were just wrong. R's, John -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <XlUwR.2$dR1.1@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #234379 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>I disagree. It is not just population growth; there are a number of factors, see: >> >>https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m >> >>This is a physics-based analysis of energy usage, economics, >>and population growth. >> >>Part 1 is very instructive (and somewhat depressing). > >It's surprisingly poorly informed. He seems unaware of actual >demographic trends, with fertility in even poor countries dropping >a lot faster than anyone expected a decade ago. Can you point out where he discusses those demographic trends? He notes the growth rate has fallen to 1.1% on page 32. He even explicity states "The moderation to 1% since that period is reassuring, but we are not at all out of the woods yet." >Citing "The Population Bomb" is a giveaway, a book full of >predictions that were just wrong. All Tom wrote was: "A famous book by Paul Ehrlich called The Population Bomb [18], first published in 1968, expressed understandable alarm at the 2% rate that had only increased to that point." His only comment about it was "the moderation to 1% since that period is reassuring, but we are not at all out of the woods yet." And he writes: "Overpopulation proves to be temporary, as exhaustion of food resources, increased predation, and in some cases disease (another form of predation, really) knock back the population." The remainder of Tom's book is about the growth in the usage of energy and the consequences thereof. And he didn't anticipate the current increase in demand due to the irrational AI bubble. What you seem to miss is that the entire economy is predicated on growth. Without population growth, how do you expect the economy to grow?
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <10q16sr$ojg$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #234380 |
It appears that Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> said: >John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >>According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>>I disagree. It is not just population growth; there are a number of factors, see: >>> >>>https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m >>> >>>This is a physics-based analysis of energy usage, economics, >>>and population growth. >>> >>>Part 1 is very instructive (and somewhat depressing). >> >>It's surprisingly poorly informed. He seems unaware of actual >>demographic trends, with fertility in even poor countries dropping >>a lot faster than anyone expected a decade ago. > >Can you point out where he discusses those demographic trends? > >He notes the growth rate has fallen to 1.1% on page 32. Demographers expect it to turn negative by the 2080s. We have problems but exponential population growth is not one of them. >And he writes: > > "Overpopulation proves to be temporary, as exhaustion of > food resources, increased predation, and in some cases > disease (another form of predation, really) knock back > the population." That's what Malthus said, and he was wrong too. What we see is that as people get richer, they have fewer children, by choice, not due to starvation. >What you seem to miss is that the entire economy is predicated >on growth. Without population growth, how do you expect the >economy to grow? Individual people get richer. In 1960 the population of the US was 180M, now it's about 350M, so it hasn't quite doubled. In 1960 our inflation adjusted GDP was 3.5 trillion, now it's 24 trillion, so the average American is more than three times richer than her mother (maybe grandmother) was in 1960. There are certainly significant questions about how you structure an economy with a stable population, like to what age can we reasonably expect people to work and how do we take care of an unprecedented elderly population, but that's not incompatible with economic growth. To answer an obvious question, we've also gotten better at using physical resources effectively, using about half as much oil per dollar of GNP as we did in the 1970s. We have a long way to go, particularly with the current administration determined to move backward, but it's not hard to see ways forward. R's, John -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <2%VwR.1313136$wcP9.937884@fx24.iad> |
| In reply to | #234381 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >It appears that Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> said: >>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >>>According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>>>I disagree. It is not just population growth; there are a number of factors, see: >>>> >>>>https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m >>>> >>>>This is a physics-based analysis of energy usage, economics, >>>>and population growth. >>>> >>>>Part 1 is very instructive (and somewhat depressing). >>> >>>It's surprisingly poorly informed. He seems unaware of actual >>>demographic trends, with fertility in even poor countries dropping >>>a lot faster than anyone expected a decade ago. >> >>Can you point out where he discusses those demographic trends? >> >>He notes the growth rate has fallen to 1.1% on page 32. > >Demographers expect it to turn negative by the 2080s. We have problems >but exponential population growth is not one of them. > >>And he writes: >> >> "Overpopulation proves to be temporary, as exhaustion of >> food resources, increased predation, and in some cases >> disease (another form of predation, really) knock back >> the population." > >That's what Malthus said, and he was wrong too. What we see is that as >people get richer, they have fewer children, by choice, not due to >starvation. What this leaves out is that the main reason that Ehrlich's predictions didn't pan out was due to the exploitation of fossil fuels for agriculture (machinery, but more importantly, fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides). Without that boost to agriculture, it's likely that there would have been consequences by now due to overpopulation. "people get richer and have fewer children" seems to be not to be completley accurate at all (cf. Elon Musk). It's not wealth that reduces population growth, is is rather the cost of having and raising kids (and the availability of contraceptives, and the migration from ag to industry where the labor provided by children is no longer necessary, not to mention the advances in medicine that have reduced the child mortality rate). >Individual people get richer. In 1960 the population of the US was 180M, now >it's about 350M, so it hasn't quite doubled. In 1960 our inflation adjusted GDP >was 3.5 trillion, now it's 24 trillion, so the average American is more than >three times richer than her mother (maybe grandmother) was in 1960. Percentage of GDP is not an indicator of wealth, particularly when so much of the actual wealth (32%) is in the hands of 1% of the population. >To answer an obvious question, we've also gotten better at using physical >resources effectively, using about half as much oil per dollar of GNP as we did >in the 1970s. We have a long way to go, particularly with the current administration >determined to move backward, but it's not hard to see ways forward. This doesn't account for the fact that the rate of global energy production and consumption continues to rise at an exponential rate. I'd be interested in an enumeration of some of those ways forward, particularly with the current clown show in charge. Yes, we should be embracing solar, wind and battery storage, along with geothermal resources and other renewables. Oil and CH4 are best used for chemical feedstocks rather than combustion. While I support the use of nuclear power, I don't see it as a panacea, nor do I believe that it can completely supplant fossile fuels, even if thorium-based reactors become feasible, simply due to fact that resources on a single planet are fundamentally limited, and as they are consumed, cost more to obtain (yes, there is uranium in seawater. Can it be extracted and refined into fissile materials suitable for fission reactors at reasonable cost to support 18,000 new 1GW reactors to replace the current fossil supplies?) Dr. Murphy's illustration of the absurdity of long-term growth in energy production (even at 2% per annum) with respect the the average global temperature is eye-opening. After all, all energy production (and consumption!) produces heat.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <10q1jej$n8u$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #234384 |
According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>That's what Malthus said, and he was wrong too. What we see is that as >>people get richer, they have fewer children, by choice, not due to >>starvation. > >What this leaves out is that the main reason that Ehrlich's >predictions didn't pan out was due to the exploitation of >fossil fuels for agriculture (machinery, but more importantly, >fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides). Without that >boost to agriculture, it's likely that there would have >been consequences by now due to overpopulation. Yes, that's also why Malthus was wrong. He didn't expect the industrial revolution. >"people get richer and have fewer children" seems to be >not to be completley accurate at all (cf. Elon Musk). We're talking about multi-decade global trends here, not the ocasional whacked out narcissist. >It's not wealth that reduces population growth, is is rather >the cost of having and raising kids (and the availability >of contraceptives, and the migration from ag to industry >where the labor provided by children is no longer necessary, >not to mention the advances in medicine that have reduced >the child mortality rate). That might have been true 200 years ago, but it's not why fertility is dropping today in countries from South Korea to Italy to the U.S. In 1960 the US number of births per woman was about 3.6, now it's about 1.7. I was around in 1960 and the migration from ag to industry had happened, as had medical advances that allowed most babies to survive. But the birth rate has continued to drop, world wide, a lot. We have found that when childbearing is optional, a lot of women opt not to. >>Individual people get richer. In 1960 the population of the US was 180M, now >>it's about 350M, so it hasn't quite doubled. In 1960 our inflation adjusted GDP >>was 3.5 trillion, now it's 24 trillion, so the average American is more than >>three times richer than her mother (maybe grandmother) was in 1960. > >Percentage of GDP is not an indicator of wealth, >particularly when so much of the actual wealth (32%) >is in the hands of 1% of the population. I agree that the US is much less equal than it was in 1960 but it's also a lot richer overall. In any event the question was how does an economy grow without population growth and the answer is that for the past several centuries economies have grown faster than populations. That part of the problem is solved. >>To answer an obvious question, we've also gotten better at using physical >>resources effectively, using about half as much oil per dollar of GNP as we did >>in the 1970s. We have a long way to go, particularly with the current administration >>determined to move backward, but it's not hard to see ways forward. > >This doesn't account for the fact that the rate of global energy >production and consumption continues to rise at an exponential rate. Sigh. It's not exponential and hasn't been for a while. It's still growing which is a problem, but not like it used to. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <gzZwR.2$cP1.1@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #234390 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: >According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >>This doesn't account for the fact that the rate of global energy >>production and consumption continues to rise at an exponential rate. > >Sigh. It's not exponential and hasn't been for a while. It's still growing >which is a problem, but not like it used to. 2% annual growth -is- exponential (2.2% last year). Even the average growth of 1.5% in the second decade of this century will result in a doubling of energy consumed every 47 years. (2% doubles every 35 years, 1% doubles every 70 years). Will that growth rate (which is been pretty consistent since the start of the 20th century) continue ad infinitum? If not, what will stop it (aside catastrophe?). There is still a large part of the world where the annual increase in energy consumption will grow at a larger rate as they modernize.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities |
| Message-ID | <r_1xR.635419$WDc7.403865@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #234391 |
On 2026-03-25, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: > >> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>: >> >>> This doesn't account for the fact that the rate of global energy >>> production and consumption continues to rise at an exponential rate. >> >> Sigh. It's not exponential and hasn't been for a while. It's still >> growing which is a problem, but not like it used to. > > 2% annual growth -is- exponential (2.2% last year). Even the average > growth of 1.5% in the second decade of this century will result in a > doubling of energy consumed every 47 years. (2% doubles every 35 years, > 1% doubles every 70 years). My 40-year doubling is based on an old UN figure of 1.7% per year. > Will that growth rate (which is been pretty consistent since > the start of the 20th century) continue ad infinitum? If not, > what will stop it (aside catastrophe?). My money is on catastrophe. Hardly anyone seems to want to see the growth rate slow. Here in B.C. the provincial government has overridden local government's planning departments to force rezoning for higher density. Meanwhile, schools and hospitals are overcrowded, roads are becoming more and more congested, and housing prices have soared to the point where most young people have given up hope of ever owning their own home. > There is still a large > part of the world where the annual increase in energy consumption > will grow at a larger rate as they modernize. Unfortunately, infrastructure can't keep up. Our Site C dam finally came online several years late and 100% over budget (which is standard for any provincial government project) - and projections are that between electric cars and AI data centres we're going to need three more. All we have to do is figure out where to build them and how we're going to pay for them - our current deficit has caused Moody's to downgrade B.C.'s credit rating yet again. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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