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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234111 > unrolled thread
| Started by | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 319 — 28 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:39 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 14:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:25 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:07 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2026-03-21 09:39 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:29 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 04:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 07:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:52 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:15 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-03-20 19:16 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-20 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 01:22 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:41 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:40 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:06 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:04 -0700
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-20 16:15 +0000
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 12:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-25 13:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 19:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-03-25 19:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-26 09:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-26 19:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:41 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-19 00:39 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 14:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:58 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2026-03-19 06:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 08:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:21 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-20 12:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 20:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 21:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:51 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 14:16 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 21:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-22 07:02 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-22 08:14 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:50 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-17 20:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-26 21:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-27 17:23 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 18:43 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 12:52 -0700
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 20:25 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-27 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 09:27 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-28 00:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-28 03:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 00:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 01:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 14:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> - 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000
Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 12:16 -0700
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-31 19:53 +0200
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 01:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 08:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:29 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-03-25 16:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 07:31 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 16:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:36 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:34 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-19 01:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:38 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-18 18:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-22 10:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-22 16:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2026-03-18 20:43 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 14:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 14:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 18:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-03-26 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 22:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-27 10:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100
Page 12 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 16 Next page →
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2dfs1Fth0tU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234327 |
On Mon, 23 Mar 2026 17:10:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > My worst dial-up experience was a site whose logo came across as a 450K > GIF. Ironically, the logo was simple enough that a competent designer > could have expressed it in a 5K GIF. I had a barely computer literate cousin who would email huge photo attachments when I was on dialup. Oh, good, another 20 MB of something that caught her interest. Trying to explain the problem to her was useless; it was all click'n'paste magic to her.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mBiwR.509808$ET1.186565@fx01.iad> |
| In reply to | #234330 |
On 2026-03-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 2026 17:10:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> My worst dial-up experience was a site whose logo came across as a 450K >> GIF. Ironically, the logo was simple enough that a competent designer >> could have expressed it in a 5K GIF. > > I had a barely computer literate cousin who would email huge photo > attachments when I was on dialup. Oh, good, another 20 MB of something > that caught her interest. Trying to explain the problem to her was > useless; it was all click'n'paste magic to her. Whenever someone did that to me I would telnet into my ISP's POP server and delete the message by hand. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10psnmr$kqga$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234334 |
On Mon, 23 Mar 2026 21:51:14 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Whenever someone did that to me I would telnet into my ISP's POP > server and delete the message by hand. In those days it was common to write Perl scripts to do that sort of thing. ;)
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87h5q5wub8.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234334 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2026-03-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> I had a barely computer literate cousin who would email huge photo
>> attachments when I was on dialup. Oh, good, another 20 MB of something
>> that caught her interest. Trying to explain the problem to her was
>> useless; it was all click'n'paste magic to her.
>
> Whenever someone did that to me I would telnet into my ISP's
> POP server and delete the message by hand.
I have a script that does that from the command line, also identifies
& deletes spam on the server.
When I had a problem with correspondents who sent me multi-megabyte
email, I used to send them this:
Out here in the boonies, our data packets are removed from the
internet by apprentice nit-pickers with tweezers, wrapped in rice
straw by wizened Japanese grandmothers, packed up the mountain on
mules and inserted into our computers one at a time by retired
watchmakers.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10ps481$e6ao$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234327 |
Charlie Gibbs wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS: > On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >> >>> Actually, it goes back to before computers. The original idea was >>> that it can take many words to describe what's in a photograph, >>> especially if the photo contains a lot of detail. >> >> A photo or a diagram of a blacksmithing tool that someone has devised >> is far better than a description, especially given that most people >> aren't skilled at precise physical descritption in language. Some >> very ingenious and competent people can't do it at all. > > Yes, there are situations were a good, simple photo (or diagram) > can cut through a lot of confusion. However... > >> That doesn't justify slapping stock photos, cute cats or YAPODJT on >> everything. Way back in dialup web days, the eager clueless were >> already substituting a 5K GIF for a 5-letter word. Feh. > > My worst dial-up experience was a site whose logo came across as > a 450K GIF. Ironically, the logo was simple enough that a competent > designer could have expressed it in a 5K GIF. > > <snip> > >> Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning >> complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs >> will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? > > (After "stunning", insert "and often gratuitous") > > I'm afraid you might be right. It's bound to collapse sooner > or later - and maybe then the KISS principle will re-emerge > from the wreckage. Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee. -- Squirming: Discomfort inflicted on young people by old people who see no irony in their gestures. "Karen died a thousand deaths as her father made a big show of tasting a recently manufactured bottle of wine before allowing it to be poured as the family sat in Steak Hut. -- Douglas Coupland, "Generation X: Tales for an Accelerated Culture"
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10psef7$hp9l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234332 |
On 3/23/26 12:28, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > Charlie Gibbs wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS: > >> On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: >> >>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> Actually, it goes back to before computers. The original idea was >>>> that it can take many words to describe what's in a photograph, >>>> especially if the photo contains a lot of detail. >>> >>> A photo or a diagram of a blacksmithing tool that someone has devised >>> is far better than a description, especially given that most people >>> aren't skilled at precise physical descritption in language. Some >>> very ingenious and competent people can't do it at all. >> >> Yes, there are situations were a good, simple photo (or diagram) >> can cut through a lot of confusion. However... >> >>> That doesn't justify slapping stock photos, cute cats or YAPODJT on >>> everything. Way back in dialup web days, the eager clueless were >>> already substituting a 5K GIF for a 5-letter word. Feh. >> >> My worst dial-up experience was a site whose logo came across as >> a 450K GIF. Ironically, the logo was simple enough that a competent >> designer could have expressed it in a 5K GIF. >> >> <snip> >> >>> Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning >>> complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs >>> will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? >> >> (After "stunning", insert "and often gratuitous") >> >> I'm afraid you might be right. It's bound to collapse sooner >> or later - and maybe then the KISS principle will re-emerge >> from the wreckage. > > Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" > would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and > teevee. Somebody has to keep fighting that fight. >
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87cy0twtjf.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234332 |
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: > Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" > would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and > teevee. Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different. The worrisome reports of inability in a whole generation to maintain attention well enough to read and comprehend ordinary long-form written/printed material aren't coming from cranky old geezer hermits such as I but from university professors. In any case, "can't read" and "don't read" aren't all that much different in effect. ButWhatAbout exculpation: Didn't have TV at home until I was 22, gave it up 60 years ago. Now I only see TV in the dentist's chair, sort of a homeopathic dose of something deadly but in exponential dilution. :-) -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada The command line is like language; the GUI is like shopping.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2g0akFb9p7U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234343 |
On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: > >> Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" >> would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee. > > Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing > generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up > their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of > their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different. They had radio though. Some of the old radio dramas do an impressive job of creating a setting. I think you would have to go back to the times when you did not have entertainment on demand. Unless you played an instrument music at a get together would be a big thing, likewise a traveling show putting on a play or minstrel performance.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <878qbhvxss.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234347 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
> On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
>>
>>> Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation"
>>> would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee.
>>
>> Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing
>> generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up
>> their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of
>> their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different.
>
> They had radio though. Some of the old radio dramas do an impressive job
> of creating a setting. I think you would have to go back to the times when
> you did not have entertainment on demand. Unless you played an instrument
> music at a get together would be a big thing, likewise a traveling show
> putting on a play or minstrel performance.
Google "television" and "trance state". Radio didn't do that. Just a
snppet from one the many hits on that search:
Our conscious mind is a security guard that ensures only
information that we already believe in is allowed into the
subconscious mind so that our pre-existing beliefs get
strengthened. It has the tendency to reject any information that
does not match our pre-existing belief systems.
The natural consequence of a hypnotic trance state is that your
conscious filters are turned off and you are unable to
critically analyze the information that you are receiving.
Moreover, when you watch TV you are not able to do any thinking
because information is bombarded continuously into your
mind. You get no time to process what you are watching.
[....]
Compare this to reading where you can stop, think and reflect
after each line that you read. You, the reader, sets the pace
while you are reading and not the book. TV, on the other hand,
keeps on pouring information like wine into the glass of your
unconscious mind and before you know it, you are already drunk.
And that's what you see all around you -- people intoxicated
with the thoughts of other people who never give sobriety a
chance by reflecting on their drunkenness.
https://www.psychmechanics.com/how-tv-influences-your-mind-through/
Author: Hanan Parvez
https://www.psychmechanics.com/about/
Admittedly, AFAICT, there is only a limited amount of hard-core
research published on the subject and crackpots are eager to spin off
crackpot notions from the basic idea. But Parvez's take (above) rings
true.
That said, both of my parents and at least three of my high school
teachers grew up in the pre-radio era and TV appeared when they were
in late middle age. (Yes, those teachers were still teaching well past
65; one was 80 and going strong.)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tv-20260324203947@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #234350 |
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted: > Compare this to reading where you can stop, think and reflect > after each line that you read. You, the reader, sets the pace |You cannot read mathematics the way you read a novel. |If you zip through a page in less than an hour, you |are probably going too fast. Sheldon Axler (2024). >Admittedly, AFAICT, there is only a limited amount of hard-core >research published on the subject I read some research demonstrating that toddlers do not learn words from the "teletubbies", but do learn words when an adult explains the word to them - even if the adult appears in a video. In 2009, it was reported in a German-language news report: |For children and adolescents, caution is advisable when |watching television, according to brain researcher Prof. Lutz |Jäncke. "I am not against television, but there is a certain |danger," said the Zurich psychology professor in Wiesbaden at |the Forum of the Working Group on Television Research. There |is a direct link between the number of hours spent in front |of the TV and academic performance. The more television is |consumed, the worse the school grades tend to be. |In addition, there is a risk of addiction. | translated from a German-language news report. A German-language comment said in 2010: |The problem is apparently not only that people are raised to |become television addicts too early, but also that this |addiction increases with age. People often warn that children |and adolescents spend too much time in front of the TV, |becoming lethargic and suffering from attention disorders as |a result. A recent study has once again confirmed that |excessive computer gaming, just like frequent television |watching, seems to reduce children's ability to concentrate |and increase the likelihood of developing general attention |disorders. Computer games and television might therefore be |among the causes contributing to the development of ADHD in |children. | |However, this discussion symptomatically overlooks the |well-known fact that it is not the young who watch the most |television, but that older and elderly people are spending |more and more time in front of the screen. This does not seem |to cause much concern - after all, they are old people from whom |nothing more is expected, and who can also be kept quiet by |television. | translated from a German-language comment.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h5iiFgjvlU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234351 |
On 24 Mar 2026 19:42:53 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote: > |However, this discussion symptomatically overlooks the |well-known fact > that it is not the young who watch the most |television, but that older > and elderly people are spending |more and more time in front of the > screen. This does not seem |to cause much concern - after all, they are > old people from whom |nothing more is expected, and who can also be kept > quiet by |television. Other than Austin City Limits and a local music show on PBS I don't watch broadcast TV. Otoh streaming video has replaced movie going and series like Fallout and Stranger Things at one time would have been TV broadcasts. When I was in college I worked for the state Dept. of Education summers. Listening to the office gossip I thought the people had really interesting lives until I realized they were talking about last night's episode of Dallas or whatever. Fast forward I think all of our QA team were gamers and a couple of times I mistook last night's game rehash for real events.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <FdCwR.329146$MM1.20467@fx46.iad> |
| In reply to | #234350 |
On 2026-03-24, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: > >> On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: >> >>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: >>> >>>> Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" >>>> would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee. >>> >>> Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing >>> generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up >>> their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of >>> their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different. >> >> They had radio though. Some of the old radio dramas do an impressive job >> of creating a setting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_%281938_radio_drama%29 >> I think you would have to go back to the times when >> you did not have entertainment on demand. Unless you played an instrument >> music at a get together would be a big thing, likewise a traveling show >> putting on a play or minstrel performance. > > Google "television" and "trance state". Radio didn't do that. Just a > snppet from one the many hits on that search: > > Our conscious mind is a security guard that ensures only > information that we already believe in is allowed into the > subconscious mind so that our pre-existing beliefs get > strengthened. It has the tendency to reject any information that > does not match our pre-existing belief systems. > > The natural consequence of a hypnotic trance state is that your > conscious filters are turned off and you are unable to > critically analyze the information that you are receiving. Television advertisers have been fine-tuning this effect for the past 70 years or so. > Moreover, when you watch TV you are not able to do any thinking > because information is bombarded continuously into your > mind. You get no time to process what you are watching. This has been getting even worse over the past few years. My wife and I like to watch the credits at the end of a movie; it gives us a chance to unwind, usually to good music. Modern streaming services make it difficult to do this, trying to hustle you off to the next show that they think you should be watching _right now_. Recently, the Netflix app on our set-top box was modified so that just trying to browse it will cause the movie you're checking out to start playing in the background. The latest Telus TV "upgrade" that we got in the past couple of weeks takes this still farther; it's almost impossible to stop it from playing something - anything - in the background while you're trying to look up something else. I really resent this kind of force feeding. It might be time to fall back on my DVD library (or the library's DVDs)... > [....] > > Compare this to reading where you can stop, think and reflect > after each line that you read. You, the reader, sets the pace > while you are reading and not the book. TV, on the other hand, > keeps on pouring information like wine into the glass of your > unconscious mind and before you know it, you are already drunk. > > And that's what you see all around you -- people intoxicated > with the thoughts of other people who never give sobriety a > chance by reflecting on their drunkenness. > > https://www.psychmechanics.com/how-tv-influences-your-mind-through/ > > Author: Hanan Parvez > https://www.psychmechanics.com/about/ Well written. > Admittedly, AFAICT, there is only a limited amount of hard-core > research published on the subject and crackpots are eager to spin off > crackpot notions from the basic idea. But Parvez's take (above) rings > true. It doesn't just ring true - it _is_ true, and is becoming more so all the time. And it's deliberate. > That said, both of my parents and at least three of my high school > teachers grew up in the pre-radio era and TV appeared when they were > in late middle age. (Yes, those teachers were still teaching well past > 65; one was 80 and going strong.) Ditto. And as much as I enjoy TV, it's not the obsession that young people today are being programmed into. (My sister, on the other hand, was a bit more hooked - when we'd get home from school she'd make a beeline for the TV and turn it on, even before taking off her coat. Even if there wasn't anything she wanted to watch, just having some noise in the background seemed to be necessary, while I usually just wanted some silence in which to unwind.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10q304h$2m863$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234352 |
On 2026-03-24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-24, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > >> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >> >>> On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: >>> >>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: [...] > >> Moreover, when you watch TV you are not able to do any thinking >> because information is bombarded continuously into your >> mind. You get no time to process what you are watching. > > This has been getting even worse over the past few years. > My wife and I like to watch the credits at the end of a movie; > it gives us a chance to unwind, usually to good music. > Modern streaming services make it difficult to do this, > trying to hustle you off to the next show that they think > you should be watching _right now_. This is a UI disaster. Disney+ on Android operates the same way, AFAIK there's no way to turn that off, you have to actively seek the thumbnail-size image to get full-screen again, and sometimes they just don't even get the timing right. Funnily, these days even broadcasts screw this up, it's been twice in recent months that I've learned about stingers that did not show up on TV broadcasts because the networks found it fitting to cut the movie as soon as the ending credits appeared. Meanwhile, it seems to me that at least Home Box Office has come up with a better UI for a streaming service, at least there autoplay and jumping into the next installment of a show seems to be optional? > Recently, the Netflix app on our set-top box was modified so that > just trying to browse it will cause the movie you're checking > out to start playing in the background. The latest Telus TV > "upgrade" that we got in the past couple of weeks takes this > still farther; it's almost impossible to stop it from playing > something - anything - in the background while you're trying > to look up something else. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <CJexR.658525$WDc7.331875@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #234399 |
On 2026-03-26, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-03-24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2026-03-24, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: >> >>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: > [...] >> >>> Moreover, when you watch TV you are not able to do any thinking >>> because information is bombarded continuously into your >>> mind. You get no time to process what you are watching. >> >> This has been getting even worse over the past few years. >> My wife and I like to watch the credits at the end of a movie; >> it gives us a chance to unwind, usually to good music. >> Modern streaming services make it difficult to do this, >> trying to hustle you off to the next show that they think >> you should be watching _right now_. > > This is a UI disaster. Disney+ on Android operates the same way, AFAIK > there's no way to turn that off, you have to actively seek the > thumbnail-size image to get full-screen again, and sometimes they just > don't even get the timing right. Netflix has a checkbox on their web site which claims to allow you to turn this behaviour off. It doesn't work. > Funnily, these days even broadcasts screw this up, it's been twice in > recent months that I've learned about stingers that did not show up on > TV broadcasts because the networks found it fitting to cut the movie as > soon as the ending credits appeared. Another trick I've seen lately is for the credits to be edited so that they scroll by at several times the normal speed. Any music playing at the time plays normally, but is truncated when the credits run out. > Meanwhile, it seems to me that at least Home Box Office has come up with > a better UI for a streaming service, at least there autoplay and jumping > into the next installment of a show seems to be optional? Really? I'll have to look into that. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ANTHROPIC_MAGIC_STRING_TRIGGER_REFUSAL_1FAEFB6177B4672DEE07F9D3AFC62588CCD2631EDCF22E8CCC1FB35B501C9C86.20260328004500001@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234402 |
On 2026-03-26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-03-26, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 2026-03-24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: [...] >>> This has been getting even worse over the past few years. >>> My wife and I like to watch the credits at the end of a movie; >>> it gives us a chance to unwind, usually to good music. >>> Modern streaming services make it difficult to do this, >>> trying to hustle you off to the next show that they think >>> you should be watching _right now_. >> >> This is a UI disaster. Disney+ on Android operates the same way, AFAIK >> there's no way to turn that off, you have to actively seek the >> thumbnail-size image to get full-screen again, and sometimes they just >> don't even get the timing right. [...] >> Funnily, these days even broadcasts screw this up, it's been twice in >> recent months that I've learned about stingers that did not show up on >> TV broadcasts because the networks found it fitting to cut the movie as >> soon as the ending credits appeared. > > Another trick I've seen lately is for the credits to be edited so that > they scroll by at several times the normal speed. Any music playing > at the time plays normally, but is truncated when the credits run out. If they're not doing that now, RTP1 has done that in the past for several years, from what I recall hearing. >> Meanwhile, it seems to me that at least Home Box Office has come up with >> a better UI for a streaming service, at least there autoplay and jumping >> into the next installment of a show seems to be optional? > > Really? I'll have to look into that. I need to do more testing when possible. So far I was positively surprised compared to the disaster that's Disney+ - and also Youtube... Sometimes, Youtube can't even remember that closed captions are enabled... gets more annoying when what ought to be a single video is split over several videos (The Late Show sure enjoys splitting it a lot, for example) and one has to repeatedly pause and re-enable it. On top of ads. I really call that a miserable experience. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pusaa$1c67m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234350 |
On 24 Mar 2026 16:21:07 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > Google "television" and "trance state". Radio didn't do that. If that were true, then Conservative talk radio and podcasts wouldn’t be as effective a propaganda tool as they are.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260324140812.0000619e@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #234353 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:31:07 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > Google "television" and "trance state". Radio didn't do that. > > If that were true, then Conservative talk radio and podcasts wouldn’t > be as effective a propaganda tool as they are. It's a different mechanism, I think. TV really does seem to lull people into a kind of trance state; talk radio operates more on a combination of para-social attachment (not for nothing do most politically-oriented talk hosts mimic the "convivial discussion of weighty matters" mood of that old-timey cultural institution, the "back-porch chat") and the thrill of feeling that one is In The Know on some great matter on which the Unwashed Masses are clueless. TV aims to stun the senses into stopping thinking; talk radio aims to *co-opt* thinking and lead the listener into internalizing the host's views by giving them the *feeling* of participating in a discussion when 95% of the time it's the host who's speaking (and about 4% of the rest is people calling in to praise and reaffirm the rightness of the host's views, the better to manufacture consensus in the audience.)
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h5tgFgjvlU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234353 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:31:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On 24 Mar 2026 16:21:07 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > >> Google "television" and "trance state". Radio didn't do that. > > If that were true, then Conservative talk radio and podcasts wouldn’t be > as effective a propaganda tool as they are. The only one I listened to was G. Gordon Liddy. He could be amusing but after a while it was mostly a rehash of his glory days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUyOZS-PyTA I won't go into my opinion of Springsteen 2026 but he could write songs.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n2h54fFgjvlU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #234350 |
On 24 Mar 2026 16:21:07 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > That said, both of my parents and at least three of my high school > teachers grew up in the pre-radio era and TV appeared when they were in > late middle age. (Yes, those teachers were still teaching well past 65; > one was 80 and going strong.) I didn't think of that but looking at the timeline both of my parents would have been in their '20s when commercial radio was growing. My uncle had an interest in radio and eventually parlayed that into a radio/tv/pa business. His partner did the housecalls when that was the thing and my uncle did the bench work when Joe uttered the dreaded 'I'll have to take it back to the shop' words. One of the pa contracts they had was with a local stock car track. The wiring was permanent but the speakers, amps, and so forth were not. My uncle would slip me $5 to take the speakers around to the mounting points and hook them up. As a bonus my aunt worked in the concession stand so there were free hot dogs too. Other than the specialized companies that do musical performance I don't know how many public address systems are set up on demand.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sDCwR.317059$cH4.179784@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #234347 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >On 24 Mar 2026 04:55:32 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > > >> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: >> >>> Actually, sounds like the warnings about how "the next generation" >>> would be stunted by penny-dreadfuls and, later, comic books and teevee. >> >> Speaking as someone old enough to have seen the first TV-viewing >> generation grow up and grow old, I think TV has, in fact, shpxrq up >> their brains. I was raised and educated by people who spent most of >> their lives in a TV-free world and they were, I think, different. > >They had radio though. Some of the old radio dramas do an impressive job >of creating a setting. I think you would have to go back to the times when >you did not have entertainment on demand. Unless you played an instrument >music at a get together would be a big thing, likewise a traveling show >putting on a play or minstrel performance. A key difference between then and now is mobility, of both people and information. Up until WWII, people seldom left their village, town or city. The only national news would have been via the local newspaper, and after WWI, via radio, which in both cases would color such news with regional bias. Reading books (and the typical farmer may only have time for that during the winter) could provide a wider worldview to the reader, but the avialability of any particular book would depend on the regional library or the rare bookstore. Even in the 60's and 70's, in my experience, there were significant regional variations in slang, teen behavior, etc. There were only three TV channels and the fare was rather bland (at least until _All in the Family_.)
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