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Windows rant

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  Windows rant Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:37 +0000
    Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-06 01:37 +0000
      Re: Windows rant Not Necessary <not@necessary.invalid> - 2025-06-30 09:37 +0530
        Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-30 06:47 +0000
        Re: Windows rant Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-30 13:41 +0000
          Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:06 +0000
            Re: Windows rant John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-01 08:13 -0700
          Re: Windows rant Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-07-01 20:12 +0200
            Re: Windows rant Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-02 01:13 +0000
              Re: Windows rant "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-07-02 16:30 +0100
                Re: Windows rant Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-02 20:05 +0000
                  Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 22:40 +0000
        Re: Windows rant Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2025-07-15 16:54 +0000
    Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 05:13 +0000
      Re: Windows rant scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:08 +0000
        Re: Windows rant Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
          Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:11 +0000
        Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:06 +0000
      Re: Windows rant Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-06 20:41 +0000
        Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-06 22:36 +0000
          Re: Windows rant Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 12:49 +0000
            Re: Windows rant Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-07 21:57 +0000
              Re: Windows rant Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-08 11:50 +0000
                Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:53 +0000
        Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:17 +0000
          Re: Windows rant Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:52 +0000
    Re: Windows rant Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-06 20:30 +0000
    Re: Windows rant Berend Lettinga <berendlettinga@hotmail.com> - 2025-07-03 17:26 +0200
      Re: Windows rant rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-03 18:33 +0000
        Re: Windows rant John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-03 11:49 -0700

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#231028

On 2025-05-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 May 2025 20:41:21 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> I suspect that the "Server Manager" app that is the GUI way to do this
>> only exists on a Windows Server edition.
>
> This is why I keep saying, Linux (and other *nixes) is a “workstation” OS, 
> not a “desktop” OS.
>
> The distinction between “desktop” and “server” OS products is an 
> artificial one which was created by Microsoft (and other long-gone 
> proprietary OS vendors) as a way to segment the market and boost their 
> revenues.
>
> Whereas a “workstation” includes both “desktop” and “server” functionality 
> in the same box, with no artificial barrier between them.

It is particularly galling, since - like Linux - the desktop and the
server edition of Windows are pretty much the same build.

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#231046

On Wed, 7 May 2025 12:49:33 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2025-05-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Whereas a “workstation” includes both “desktop” and “server”
>> functionality in the same box, with no artificial barrier between them.
> 
> It is particularly galling, since - like Linux - the desktop and the
> server edition of Windows are pretty much the same build.

I don’t think that’s been true for a long time.

With early versions of Windows NT back in the 1990s, somebody discovered 
that an “NT Workstation” installation could become “NT Server” just by 
changing a registry key.

Microsoft soon fixed that.

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#231053

On 2025-05-07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2025 12:49:33 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On 2025-05-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Whereas a “workstation” includes both “desktop” and “server”
>>> functionality in the same box, with no artificial barrier between them.
>> 
>> It is particularly galling, since - like Linux - the desktop and the
>> server edition of Windows are pretty much the same build.
>
> I don’t think that’s been true for a long time.
>
> With early versions of Windows NT back in the 1990s, somebody discovered 
> that an “NT Workstation” installation could become “NT Server” just by 
> changing a registry key.
>
> Microsoft soon fixed that.

I recall when first installing RedHat, you could choose between a
"Server" install and "Workstation", which really only differed in the
set of packages those configurations installed.

Windows cannot be coaxed into a "server" install any easy way today, can
it?

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#231061

On Thu, 8 May 2025 11:50:55 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> Windows cannot be coaxed into a "server" install any easy way today, can
> it?

Not if you mean the full meal deal with DHCP, Active Directory, 24 TB of 
RAM, and so forth. For Linux the 'server' option tended to be a stripped 
down workstation. Windows Server doesn't have some of the cruft that comes 
with Pro but it has more capability. 

I've never had to work at that level so I'm probably wrong but my 
impression is the Windows domain and network topology is a lot more 
complex than Linux. 

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#231039

On Tue, 6 May 2025 20:41:21 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> My windows desktop does not have that. It is a Windows 10 Home edition.
> I suspect that the "Server Manager" app that is the GUI way to do this
> only exists on a Windows Server edition. And using the command-line
> incantation they tell you to use in PowerShell yields:

I think the Windows 10 process is similar. In Settings you can find 
Optional Features and then search for OpenSSH Server in the View Features 
dialog. Check the box and it will download it.  It worked in my Windows 11 
Home. 

I didn't use the PowerShell stuff. After it was installed I brought up 
services.msc to start sshd and set it to automatic and checked that port 
22 had a incoming rule.  

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#231044

On 2025-05-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 May 2025 20:41:21 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> My windows desktop does not have that. It is a Windows 10 Home edition.
>> I suspect that the "Server Manager" app that is the GUI way to do this
>> only exists on a Windows Server edition. And using the command-line
>> incantation they tell you to use in PowerShell yields:
>
> I think the Windows 10 process is similar. In Settings you can find 
> Optional Features and then search for OpenSSH Server in the View Features 
> dialog. Check the box and it will download it.  It worked in my Windows 11 
> Home. 
>
> I didn't use the PowerShell stuff. After it was installed I brought up 
> services.msc to start sshd and set it to automatic and checked that port 
> 22 had a incoming rule.  

On my Win10 systems (Home edition), "Optional Features" is an empty list.
"Turn Windows features on or off" sits in "Please wait..." forever.
"Services" does not have anything SSH related except "OpenSSH
authentication service", which is disabled.

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#231022

On 2025-05-05, Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
> I was stuck, so I decided to  reboot. Next thing I know it's doing updates 
> without asking. I'm sitting there watching the spinner and I have no way 
> of knowing how progress is going - is this going to take ten minutes or 
> ten hours? Finally got to the logon, and it decided to go to the spinner 
> again for a while. I had no idea what it was doing, installing, or 
> whetever.
>
> When I log on, I got that stupid screen asking if I wanted to upgrade to 
> windows 11, followed by some edge thing - I never use edge either. It took 
> over half an hour just to be able to read email.

My business partner for a while turned off his desktop at night, after I
showed him how much it was "phoning home" in the wee hours of the night.
But he stopped doing that after realizing that it was running a
full-drive virus scan on every reboot.

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#231165

On 06/05/2025 00:37, Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software wrote:


> I was stuck, so I decided to  reboot. Next thing I know it's doing updates
> without asking. I'm sitting there watching the spinner and I have no way
> of knowing how progress is going - is this going to take ten minutes or
> ten hours? Finally got to the logon, and it decided to go to the spinner
> again for a while. I had no idea what it was doing, installing, or
> whetever.


Yeah those Windows updates are a real pain. One of my computers is 
dualbooted with Windows, and if I boot Windows I always get an upgrade 
screen. And those fullscreen Windows 11 ads are also a hinderance.

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#231166

On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 17:26:40 +0200, Berend Lettinga wrote:

> On 06/05/2025 00:37, Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software wrote:
> 
> 
>> I was stuck, so I decided to  reboot. Next thing I know it's doing
>> updates without asking. I'm sitting there watching the spinner and I
>> have no way of knowing how progress is going - is this going to take
>> ten minutes or ten hours? Finally got to the logon, and it decided to
>> go to the spinner again for a while. I had no idea what it was doing,
>> installing, or whetever.
> 
> 
> Yeah those Windows updates are a real pain. One of my computers is
> dualbooted with Windows, and if I boot Windows I always get an upgrade
> screen. And those fullscreen Windows 11 ads are also a hinderance.

Typically Windows updates are available after Patch Tuesday, the second 
Tuesday of the month. I updated the Fedora box yesterday. Today it says 
updates are available. The Ubuntu box pops a dialog offering to upgrade to 
25.04 at odd intervals.  Just saying... 

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#231167

On 3 Jul 2025 18:33:10 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Typically Windows updates are available after Patch Tuesday, the
> second Tuesday of the month. I updated the Fedora box yesterday.
> Today it says updates are available. The Ubuntu box pops a dialog
> offering to upgrade to 25.04 at odd intervals.  Just saying... 

On the other hand, it's fairly trivial to turn those *off.* The same
can *definitely* not be said for Windows Update.

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