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Low traffic

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  Low traffic Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-28 14:59 +0000
    Re: Low traffic Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 17:33 +0000
      Re: Low traffic "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-04-28 20:21 +0100
        Re: Low traffic Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2025-04-28 19:00 -0600
          Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:18 +0000
            Re: Low traffic Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-29 19:24 +0000
              Re: Low traffic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 12:58 -0700
                Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:39 +0000
                  Re: Low traffic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-30 08:49 -0700
                    Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 20:09 +0000
              Re: Low traffic "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:41 +0200
              Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:36 +0000
                Re: Low traffic Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:14 +0000
                  Re: Low traffic songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2025-04-30 06:16 -0400
                    Re: Low traffic Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 15:06 +0000
                Re: Low traffic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:25 +0000
                  Re: Low traffic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                    Re: Low traffic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 17:25 +0000
                      Re: Low traffic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: Low traffic Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-04-30 20:17 -0700
              Re: Low traffic Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:36 +0000
                Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:59 +0000
    Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:18 +0000
    Re: Low traffic "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-04-28 22:33 +0200
    Re: Low traffic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-28 18:17 -0300
      Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:00 +0200
        Re: Low traffic Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:39 +0000
          Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 20:00 +0000
        Re: Low traffic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:52 -0300
    Re: Low traffic songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2025-04-28 18:01 -0400
      Re: Low traffic Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-04-29 08:17 +0200
    Re: Low traffic Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:33 +0000
    Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:14 +0200
      Re: Low traffic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 12:06 -0700
      Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:22 +0000
        Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:43 +0200
          Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 20:28 +0000
            Re: Low traffic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
            Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:12 +0200
              Power plant cold start (Re: Low traffic) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:57 +0000
              Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:23 +0000
                Re: Low traffic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 19:01 -0300
                  Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:59 +0000
          Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:23 +0200
            Re: Low traffic Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-05-01 21:22 +0100
          Re: Low traffic Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-02 21:02 +0200
        Re: Low traffic Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:13 +0000
          Re: Low traffic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:23 +0000
            Re: Low traffic Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-01 17:52 +0100
              Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:13 +0200
        Re: Low traffic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 03:13 -0300
          Re: Low traffic Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-01 14:48 +0000
            Re: Low traffic Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:50 +0000
          Re: Low traffic Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-01 14:52 +0000
          Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:37 +0200
            Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:27 +0000
              Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:10 +0200
                Re: Low traffic rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:47 +0000
                  Re: Low traffic "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:02 +0200
                    Re: Low traffic Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:25 +0000
                Re: Low traffic anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-05-15 15:12 +0000
          Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:48 +0000
            Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-05 17:36 +0000
              Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-05-05 17:48 +0000
                Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-05 17:58 +0000
                  Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:20 +0000
                  Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 22:55 +0200
              Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 18:53 +0000
                Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-05 23:15 +0000
                  Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-06 02:10 +0000
                    Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:35 +0200
                      Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-06 10:40 +0000
                        Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:59 +0200
                          Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-06 12:14 +0000
                            Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:27 +0200
                      Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-05-06 13:43 +0000
                        Re: Cold starting power plants (Re: Low traffic) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
      Re: Low traffic Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:41 +0000

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#230701 — Low traffic

I don't know if it's my setup or if there has been a disturbance in the 
Force. A.F.C is the only newsgroup I subscribe to that usually has 
significant traffic, but the last week or so there has only been a few 
posts on the "General Thoughts" thread. I use Eternal September as a news 
server and I just installed a new system and switched to Pan as a 
newsreader. Is Usenet finally dying?

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#230703

On 2025-04-28, Peter Flass (Iron Spring Software) <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
> I don't know if it's my setup or if there has been a disturbance in the 
> Force. A.F.C is the only newsgroup I subscribe to that usually has 
> significant traffic, but the last week or so there has only been a few 
> posts on the "General Thoughts" thread. I use Eternal September as a news 
> server and I just installed a new system and switched to Pan as a 
> newsreader. Is Usenet finally dying?

I am also on eternal-september. I started the "General Thoughts" thread,
because it had been weeks since I saw any traffic, and I missed the
company. USEnet has been near death for years ... but it does not have
to be, unless we want it to be.
-- 
Lars P

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#230704

On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 17:33:57 -0000 (UTC)
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> On 2025-04-28, Peter Flass (Iron Spring Software) <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
> > I don't know if it's my setup or if there has been a disturbance in the 
> > Force. A.F.C is the only newsgroup I subscribe to that usually has 
> > significant traffic, but the last week or so there has only been a few 
> > posts on the "General Thoughts" thread. I use Eternal September as a news 
> > server and I just installed a new system and switched to Pan as a 
> > newsreader. Is Usenet finally dying?
> 
> I am also on eternal-september. I started the "General Thoughts" thread,
> because it had been weeks since I saw any traffic, and I missed the
> company. USEnet has been near death for years ... but it does not have
> to be, unless we want it to be.


Quite. 

Or Quiet, if that's what people want.




-- 
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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#230712

On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 20:21:49 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> > I am also on eternal-september. I started the "General Thoughts" thread,
> > because it had been weeks since I saw any traffic, and I missed the
> > company. USEnet has been near death for years ... but it does not have
> > to be, unless we want it to be.
> 
> 
> Quite. 
> 
> Or Quiet, if that's what people want.
>
Just a theory - a surprising number of posters to a.f.c used the Google
web interface. I believe Google has now shut that interface down and
the timing coincides with the beginning of relative silence around
here.  Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual
news client.

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#230727

On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:

> Just a theory - a surprising number of posters to a.f.c used the Google
> web interface. I believe Google has now shut that interface down and the
> timing coincides with the beginning of relative silence around here. 
> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual news
> client.

I believe you're right. I saw the same in other newsgroups where long time 
posters vanished with the demise of google groups. 

Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP client 
since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin box.

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#230729

On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:
>> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual news
>> client.

On 2025-04-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP client 
> since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin box.

Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.

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#230731

On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 19:24:26 -0000 (UTC)
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:
> >> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual
> >> news client.  
> 
> On 2025-04-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> > Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP
> > client since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin
> > box.  
> 
> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.

Claws Mail is nothing fancy, but functional and broadly available. It's
been my go-to for mail/news since Google killed both GG and the old,
non-hateful GMail design.

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#230756

On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 12:58:50 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> Claws Mail is nothing fancy, but functional and broadly available. It's
> been my go-to for mail/news since Google killed both GG and the old,
> non-hateful GMail design.

What's hateful? I haven't looked at it in a long time. I do get traffic 
through gmail.com but it's automatically sent to montana.com. 

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#230789

On 30 Apr 2025 01:39:42 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> > Claws Mail is nothing fancy, but functional and broadly available.
> > It's been my go-to for mail/news since Google killed both GG and
> > the old, non-hateful GMail design.  
> 
> What's hateful? I haven't looked at it in a long time. I do get
> traffic through gmail.com but it's automatically sent to montana.com. 

They used to let you use the older, simpler site design - what they
called the "HTML version," as if the new one wasn't HTML :/ - but
they've been making it progressively harder to get to for years, in
favor of their glitzy, JS-heavy version. They finally killed it for
good a couple years back; that's when I made the jump back to a
dedicated mail client.

(Make you jump through hoops with setting up 2FA just to use SMTP now,
too, the cretins...)

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#230809

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 08:49:09 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> They used to let you use the older, simpler site design - what they
> called the "HTML version," as if the new one wasn't HTML :/ - but
> they've been making it progressively harder to get to for years, in
> favor of their glitzy, JS-heavy version. They finally killed it for good
> a couple years back; that's when I made the jump back to a dedicated
> mail client.

Yeah, it's uglier than I remember. I also thought the emails were deleted 
when my local account pulled them. I'm only using .42 GB out of 15 GB so 
I'll worry about a clean up at a later date. Besides the spam it's mostly 
Reddit messages where I used my Google credentials.

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#230733

On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 19:24:26 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.

Forté Agent runs under Wine.

-- 
s|b

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#230755

On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 19:24:26 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:
>>> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual news
>>> client.
> 
> On 2025-04-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP
>> client since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin
>> box.
> 
> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.

I did use it for a long time and still use it for my SMTP client on both 
Linux and Windows and the NNTP client on Windows. Then on Linux the news 
part got a little weird with text formatting issues, dialog size changes, 
and other annoyances so I switched to Pan. 

That was a while back but Pan is working well. 

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#230776

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 01:36:56 +0000, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 19:24:26 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:
>>>> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual news
>>>> client.
>> 
>> On 2025-04-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP
>>> client since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin
>>> box.
>> 
>> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.
> 
> I did use it for a long time and still use it for my SMTP client on both
> Linux and Windows and the NNTP client on Windows. Then on Linux the news
> part got a little weird with text formatting issues, dialog size
> changes,
> and other annoyances so I switched to Pan.
> 
> That was a while back but Pan is working well.

Yes, I've neen using Pan for years. For email, Claws Mail as the MUA, and 
postfix as the MTA.




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#230787

Bob Eager wrote:

...usenet, email, etc...

> Yes, I've neen using Pan for years. For email, Claws Mail as the MUA, and 
> postfix as the MTA.

  for usenet i've been using slrn and leafnode for quite a long
time.  many years ago rn and tin were used, my first usenet
reading was in the early to mid 1980s (before the great 
renaming) but we weren't allowed to post anything.  eventually
we were allowed to post.  there was some time when i was using
some MS software for usenet but it was rather horrid.  i was
much happier when i switched to a Debian system almost full-
time and then finally ditched the dual boot that would let me
get to Win-XP for a few things.

  for e-mail it was various software including a few MS 
programs until the change to permanently running Debian and
then i tried mutt and have been happy with that.


  songbird

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#230788

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 06:16:50 -0400, songbird wrote:

> Bob Eager wrote:
> 
> ...usenet, email, etc...
> 
>> Yes, I've neen using Pan for years. For email, Claws Mail as the MUA,
>> and postfix as the MTA.
> 
>   for usenet i've been using slrn and leafnode for quite a long
> time.  many years ago rn and tin were used,

Yes, back then I was using rn and mh. But I was allowed to post!

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#230786

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
>On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 19:24:26 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:00:37 -0600, Retrograde wrote:
>>>> Always surprised me that so many oldtimers did not use an actual news
>>>> client.
>> 
>> On 2025-04-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> Pan keeps chugging on but I'm not sure KDE has a stand-alone NNTP
>>> client since the demise of KNode. I use slrn on the Fedora KDE spin
>>> box.
>> 
>> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.
>
>I did use it for a long time and still use it for my SMTP client on both 
>Linux and Windows and the NNTP client on Windows. Then on Linux the news 
>part got a little weird with text formatting issues, dialog size changes, 
>and other annoyances so I switched to Pan. 

xrn - perfect for text use.   PAN doesn't handle groups with
large article counts very well, due to the rather inefficient
methods used to store the headers locally.

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#230790

On 2025-04-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> xrn - perfect for text use.   PAN doesn't handle groups with
> large article counts very well, due to the rather inefficient
> methods used to store the headers locally.

Pan might be inefficient, but it does handle large binaries
groups well aside from that.  I use slrn for text groups.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#230793

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>On 2025-04-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> xrn - perfect for text use.   PAN doesn't handle groups with
>> large article counts very well, due to the rather inefficient
>> methods used to store the headers locally.
>
>Pan might be inefficient, but it does handle large binaries
>groups well aside from that.  I use slrn for text groups.

The pan algorithms scale exponentially. It can take upwards
of 10 to load or save the in-memory copy of the on-disk
database, which is stored as free-form text.

For one binary group, the on-disk database is 2.4GB
(76 million ASCII lines).

#
# This file has three sections.
#
# A. A shorthand table for the most frequent groups in the xrefs.
#    The first line tells the number of elements to follow,
#    then one line per entry with a one-character shorthand and full name.
#
# B. A shorthand table for the most freqent author names.
#    This is formatted just like the other shorthand table.
#    (sorted by post count, so it's also a most-frequent-posters list...)
#
# C. The group's headers section.
#    The first line tells the number of articles to follow,
#    then articles which each have the following lines:
#    1. message-id
#    2. subject
#    3. author
#    4. references. This line is omitted if the Article has an empty References header.
#    5. time-posted. This is a time_t (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time)
#    6. xref line, server1:group1:number1 server2:group2:number2 ...
#    7. has-attachments [parts-total-count parts-found-count] line-count
#       If has-attachments isn't 't' (for true), fields 2 and 3 are omitted.
#       If fields 2 and 3 are equal, the article is `complete'.
#    8. One line per parts-found-count: part-index message-id byte-count
#
#
3        # file format version number
72       # xref shorthand count

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#230821

On 2025-04-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2025-04-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> xrn - perfect for text use.   PAN doesn't handle groups with
>>> large article counts very well, due to the rather inefficient
>>> methods used to store the headers locally.
>>
>> Pan might be inefficient, but it does handle large binaries
>> groups well aside from that.  I use slrn for text groups.
>
> The pan algorithms scale exponentially. It can take upwards
> of 10 to load or save the in-memory copy of the on-disk
> database, which is stored as free-form text.

You didn't specify units, but "minutes" sounds about right.

> For one binary group, the on-disk database is 2.4GB
> (76 million ASCII lines).

Yup, those files do get big...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#230820

rbowman wrote:
>> Thunderbird contains a fairly nice news client.
> I did use it for a long time and still use it for my SMTP client on both
> Linux and Windows and the NNTP client on Windows. Then on Linux the news
> part got a little weird with text formatting issues, dialog size changes,
> and other annoyances so I switched to Pan.

For similar to the older Thunderbird, there's still the suite in the 
form of SeaMonkey.
Dave

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