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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230668 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 341 — 35 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700
Page 16 of 18 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 18 Next page →
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7gkt9F4kkmU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230811 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 20:32:07 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >>On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:40:26 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: >> >>> I think it did insist on line numbers but still, very impressive. I >>> grew up with Microsoft basic on Commodores and some other 8-bitters of >>> the time, like Sinclairs. Haven't exactly been a fan of basic since. >> >>When the company bought an IBM 5120 it came with BASIC or APL. Talk >>about a rock and a hard place. > > I used one of those in 1979. Had a switch on the front to select APL > or BASIC. That's the one, with the APL symbols on the keys along with the usual characters. I gritted my teeth and used BASIC having absolutely no idea about APL. I sniffed at R and I think it inherited some APL weirdness without the special characters. Python seems to be overtaking R in that domain.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuucqh$1ajpm$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230783 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:40:26 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes: > >>> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite >>> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking >>> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic. >>> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC> >> >> Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981. > > I think it did insist on line numbers but still, very impressive. There was one called ZGRASS, from the 1970s, that did away with them altogether. Functions were defined by assigning their bodies to a string variable, and called by executing the string. It also had threads (non-preemptive, and fixed in number): there was a foreground thread to run the user interface, while a background one could run calculations or other separate asynchronous tasks. <https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/datamax/> <https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/nuttingAssoc/zGrass/> > I grew up with Microsoft basic on Commodores and some other 8-bitters of > the time, like Sinclairs. Haven't exactly been a fan of basic since. All of us who made any advancement in Comp Sci had to outgrow BASIC at some point. ;)
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7ck95Ff986U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230719 |
On 29 Apr 2025 15:11:36 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote: > MicroPython is 'not quite Python' in that a few things aren't available, > but it's more like Python than vendor-A's BASIC interpreter was vaguely > similar to vendor-B's BASIC interpreter back in the 80s. Trivia: according to Adafruit's 'Python on Microcontrollers Newsletter' "April 29th is MicroPython’s 12th birthday! In 2013, Damien George released MicroPython and it has migrated to all kinds of equipment, on earth and beyond " Time goes by... It doesn't seem like Python 3 goes back to 2006.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <knj7elx5sa.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #230723 |
On 2025-04-29 20:32, rbowman wrote: > On 29 Apr 2025 15:11:36 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote: > >> MicroPython is 'not quite Python' in that a few things aren't available, >> but it's more like Python than vendor-A's BASIC interpreter was vaguely >> similar to vendor-B's BASIC interpreter back in the 80s. > > Trivia: according to Adafruit's 'Python on Microcontrollers Newsletter' > > "April 29th is MicroPython’s 12th birthday! In 2013, Damien George > released MicroPython and it has migrated to all kinds of equipment, on > earth and beyond " > > Time goes by... It doesn't seem like Python 3 goes back to 2006. Interesting. I have some reading to do. I printed the calculator manual. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vurkgm$2pskn$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230719 |
On 29 Apr 2025 15:11:36 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote: > In the 80s, BASIC was the first language a lot of people learned in > school or similar settings. Today, it's Python. Python has similar > levels of beginner-friendliness but is also more suited to the > modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a package management > system, a big collection of libraries etc). Computer interfaces have also come a long way. One of the attractions of BASIC back in the day was its traditional immediacy: it was usually built into ROM, and so available as soon as you turned on the machine. The line numbers were an integral part of the program-entry/editing function, being used to order the lines as well as being targets for gotos. And there was “immediate mode”, where you could type in a statement without a line number and observe its effect instantly. Nowadays we can do better. Python with Jupyter notebooks would be my candidate for an environment which offers all that same immediacy, and more besides.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7dc4sFiq56U7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230741 |
On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 22:40:23 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > Computer interfaces have also come a long way. One of the attractions of > BASIC back in the day was its traditional immediacy: it was usually > built into ROM, and so available as soon as you turned on the machine. > The line numbers were an integral part of the program-entry/editing > function, being used to order the lines as well as being targets for > gotos. And there was “immediate mode”, where you could type in a > statement without a line number and observe its effect instantly. I wonder if Kemeny and Kurtzas realized what they were spawning? About the time BASIC was born at Dartmouth I was learning FORTRAN IV ar RPI. It was years before I encountered BASIC and I thought it looked like FORTRAN for dummies, which I think was the original design spec.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <vus119$17gi$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #230753 |
It appears that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> said: >I wonder if Kemeny and Kurtz realized what they were spawning? I heard Kemeny talk one time and I think they did. The goal was to provide a computer utility that their non-technical students could use. Dartmouth BASIC was quite different from the bastardized versions that became popular on PCs. One major difference was that it was a true compiler. When you typed RUN it ran the compiler which translated your program into machine code and then ran it. The compiler was so fast that it wasn't worth saving the object code, just compile it each time. Some years later in the 1970s a friend of mine finally wrote a linker for DTSS when they added PL/I which was too big and slow to use that way. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <vusitl$3ohsq$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230757 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 02:14:01 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > Dartmouth BASIC was quite different from the bastardized versions that > became popular on PCs. They tried selling their “pure” version to the great unwashed PC masses, under the name “True BASIC”. It did not do well. > One major difference was that it was a true compiler. DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <mpa9elxhs9.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #230770 |
On 2025-04-30 09:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 02:14:01 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > >> Dartmouth BASIC was quite different from the bastardized versions that >> became popular on PCs. > > They tried selling their “pure” version to the great unwashed PC masses, > under the name “True BASIC”. It did not do well. > >> One major difference was that it was a true compiler. > > DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser operating > system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That compiled to byte > code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. I think the Casio calculator I had saved the programs as byte code. I did a program that would scan any area of the memory in hex and ascii, and I found several interesting areas. But I did not have the attachment to print. I don't remember if it would also save to computer. Maybe print to serial port? -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <m7fajuFs4tbU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230770 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser > operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That > compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program their lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM. I developed the runtime and what I referred to as a pseudo-compiler to distill a IL. It did speed things up significantly and I got a good understanding of how a BASIC interpreter worked under the hood. The next project was a handheld device done in 8048 assembler which was a lot more fun than slogging through BASIC.
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| From | Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <vutvcg$1034o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230797 |
On 4/30/25 12:05 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser >> operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That >> compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. > > That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program their > lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the > interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked > suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM. I am completely confused by this statement. BASIC-PLUS was developed for RSTS/E before Radio Shack computers exited. It was also a multi-user timesharing system, in the product space shared with HP's 2000 timeshared BASIC and DEC's PDP-8 based TSS/8
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <kQvQP.1878004$SZca.859687@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #230806 |
Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> writes: >On 4/30/25 12:05 PM, rbowman wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> >>> DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser >>> operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That >>> compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. >> >> That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program their >> lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the >> interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked >> suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM. > >I am completely confused by this statement. BASIC-PLUS was developed >for RSTS/E before Radio Shack computers exited. IIRC, tandy/RS sold DIP 74-series logic components at the time, a ROM chip wouldn't be unexpected. Although I also am not sure how "the disassembler output looked like a ROM" is interpreted.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <m7gk10F4kkmU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230813 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 20:35:28 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> writes: >>On 4/30/25 12:05 PM, rbowman wrote: >>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>> >>>> DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser >>>> operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That >>>> compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. >>> >>> That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program >>> their lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the >>> interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked >>> suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM. >> >>I am completely confused by this statement. BASIC-PLUS was developed for >>RSTS/E before Radio Shack computers exited. > > IIRC, tandy/RS sold DIP 74-series logic components at the time, a ROM > chip wouldn't be unexpected. Although I also am not sure how "the > disassembler output looked like a ROM" is interpreted. The existing equipment was a piece of laboratory apparatus, not a RS computer. All I was given was a uncommented, undocumented disassembler output of the ROM that was being used. I didn't ask where the ROM came from but it certainly looked like RadioShack not something that had been developed in house prior to my employment.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <m7gjhiF4kkmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230806 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 12:58:07 -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > On 4/30/25 12:05 PM, rbowman wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> >>> DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser >>> operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That >>> compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source. >> >> That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program >> their lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the >> interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked >> suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM. > > I am completely confused by this statement. BASIC-PLUS was developed for > RSTS/E before Radio Shack computers exited. > > It was also a multi-user timesharing system, in the product space shared > with HP's 2000 timeshared BASIC and DEC's PDP-8 based TSS/8 My comment was not about BASIC-Plus. It was about my task to develop a method to speed up BASIC on laboratory equipment which apparently had been using an interpreter which I believe was lifted from a RadioShack ROM.
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <vv01au$27q4q$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #230831 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 12:58:07 -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>> On 4/30/25 12:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:19:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> DEC had BASIC quite heavily integrated into its RSTS/E multiuser
>>>> operating system for the PDP-11, in the form of BASIC-PLUS. That
>>>> compiled to byte code, which was faster to interpret than raw source.
>>>
>>> That was one of my projects. The company was using BASIC to program
>>> their lab equipment but it was sluggish. Their 'documentation' of the
>>> interpreter was a greenbar print out of a disassembler. it looked
>>> suspiciously like a RadioShack ROM.
>>
>> I am completely confused by this statement. BASIC-PLUS was developed for
>> RSTS/E before Radio Shack computers exited.
>>
>> It was also a multi-user timesharing system, in the product space shared
>> with HP's 2000 timeshared BASIC and DEC's PDP-8 based TSS/8
>
> My comment was not about BASIC-Plus. It was about my task to develop a
> method to speed up BASIC on laboratory equipment which apparently had been
> using an interpreter which I believe was lifted from a RadioShack ROM.
Why do you thinks so? Did you compare it to RadioShack ROM?
Some coding idioms were quite common in this era, so some
similarity may be accidental.
In a bit different spirit, equipment manufacturer could made a deal
with RadioShack to use (possibly modified) their ROM.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <m7e7o9Fh72vU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230757 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 02:14:01 +0000, John Levine wrote: > Dartmouth BASIC was quite different from the bastardized versions that > became popular on PCs. One major difference was that it was a true > compiler. When you typed RUN it ran the compiler which translated your > program into machine code and then ran it. The compiler was so fast that > it wasn't worth saving the object code, just compile it each time BASIC was my first programming language (apart from a little Mercury Autocode). I first encountered it in January 1971. We used the Kemeny and Kurtz book, although our locally written BASIC was a little different; I think there were few other books arout. It was interpreted. Around 1974, someone wrote a new one, a throwaway JIT version. The system gave very little memory, so compilation was to a compact interpreted code from which the source code could be regurgitated; that mean no memory was needed for source. Code was then compiled as required, and then discarded on a roughly FIFO basis. BY that time I have moved on, mainly to assembler and BCPL! -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ZYgQP.2578139$2zn8.171682@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #230753 |
On 2025-04-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > I wonder if Kemeny and Kurtzas realized what they were spawning? I think eventually they did. I heard of a project of theirs called True BASIC, where they tried to stuff it back into a (well-designed) box. That worked for them about as well as it did for Pandora. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vusj17$3ohsq$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230760 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 03:40:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I heard of a project of theirs called True BASIC, where they tried > to stuff it back into a (well-designed) box. That worked for them > about as well as it did for Pandora. They insisted that assignment statements had to begin with “LET”, when every other BASIC implementation out there had figured out how to make the “LET” keyword optional. I think in a later release, they did finally swallow their pride and relent to the prevailing tradition. But it was probably too late by then.
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| From | Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Crc*X2hbA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
| In reply to | #230771 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 03:40:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > > I heard of a project of theirs called True BASIC, where they tried > > to stuff it back into a (well-designed) box. That worked for them > > about as well as it did for Pandora. > > They insisted that assignment statements had to begin with “LET”, when > every other BASIC implementation out there had figured out how to make the > “LET” keyword optional. Can't speak for them, but Sinclair BASIC did that. I think the reasoning was due to tokenisation. The program was stored in tokenised form, and so the first thing they did when executing a line was look up the keyword token (in a big jump table presumably) and go from there. If you could just do A=B without a LET then it broke that approach. They didn't have a proper parser so they even made the user hand-tokenise the code as they entered it. They assigned one token per key and when entering the program you couldn't just type P-R-I-N-T you had to press the key with PRINT marked on it which would insert the right token directly. They'd just fix the output so that PRINT was displayed, rather than whatever top-bit-set character token had just been entered. Cutting corners... Theo
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7fbdqFs4tbU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230778 |
On 30 Apr 2025 11:09:08 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote: > They didn't have a proper parser so they even made the user > hand-tokenise the code as they entered it. They assigned one token per > key and when entering the program you couldn't just type P-R-I-N-T you > had to press the key with PRINT marked on it which would insert the > right token directly. They'd just fix the output so that PRINT was > displayed, rather than whatever top-bit-set character token had just > been entered. Another suppressed memory surfaces... When it first came out I bought a ZX80 in kit form to see what it was all about. I forgot about the wonderful features including the semi-working cassette storage. iirc, I had to rework the circuit board to get it operational. I wonder how many kit builders succeeded?
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