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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230668 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 341 — 35 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700
Page 17 of 18 — ← Prev page 1 … 15 16 [17] 18 Next page →
| From | Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Erc*hNnbA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
| In reply to | #230778 |
Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote: > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote or quoted: > >They didn't have a proper parser so they even made the user hand-tokenise > >the code as they entered it. > > The thing that cranks out tokens is usually called the > "scanner" (or "lexer", "lexical analyzer"). The parser > comes right after and handles the syntax analysis. They didn't have either :-) It's just a state machine that chomps on the program and then dispatches when it finds a keyword token and matches its specified layout of input parameters: PDF page 89: http://www.primrosebank.net/computers/zxspectrum/docs/CompleteSpectrumROMDisassemblyThe.pdf There's no syntax analysis, it just fails if the characters after a token don't match the pattern for that token. I can't remember if whitespace is allowed but I don't think so. There are spaces around tokens when listed, ie: 10 IF Q=5 THEN PRINT "YES" which is actually stored something like: [0xA][IF-token]Q=5[THEN-token][PRINT-token]"YES" and the input/output routines add whitespace for display, but there is no whitespace in the program. I don't think you are allowed to enter extra spaces, and if you do it'll strip them on entry. Theo
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vv09au$28ipo$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #230838 |
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote or quoted:
>> >They didn't have a proper parser so they even made the user hand-tokenise
>> >the code as they entered it.
>>
>> The thing that cranks out tokens is usually called the
>> "scanner" (or "lexer", "lexical analyzer"). The parser
>> comes right after and handles the syntax analysis.
>
> They didn't have either :-) It's just a state machine that chomps on the
> program and then dispatches when it finds a keyword token and matches its
> specified layout of input parameters:
>
> PDF page 89:
> http://www.primrosebank.net/computers/zxspectrum/docs/CompleteSpectrumROMDisassemblyThe.pdf
>
> There's no syntax analysis, it just fails if the characters after a token
> don't match the pattern for that token.
>
> I can't remember if whitespace is allowed but I don't think so. There are
> spaces around tokens when listed, ie:
> 10 IF Q=5 THEN PRINT "YES"
>
> which is actually stored something like:
> [0xA][IF-token]Q=5[THEN-token][PRINT-token]"YES"
>
> and the input/output routines add whitespace for display, but there is no
> whitespace in the program. I don't think you are allowed to enter extra
> spaces, and if you do it'll strip them on entry.
>
> Theo
AFAIC this is parser, a simple one and ad-hoc, using assembly tricks
to get smaller code. But principle of operation really is the same
as in some more complicated parsers: switch on first token to
determine potentially applicable right hand of production, then
sequentially verify that all part specified on right hand are
there, recursing for more complicated stuff like expressions.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vv0qqi$3i4p7$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230838 |
On 01 May 2025 13:20:46 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote: > I can't remember if whitespace is allowed but I don't think so. Don’t know about other BASICs, but with DEC’s BASIC-PLUS in its original form, whitespace was ignored, but user variable and function names were restricted to a single character -- plus type suffix, in the case of variables, or plus “FN” prefix and type suffix, in the case of user function names. Later they added “EXTEND” mode, which allowed much longer names (30 characters?), but whitespace became significant.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7faueFs4tbU7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230771 |
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:21:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 03:40:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I heard of a project of theirs called True BASIC, where they tried to >> stuff it back into a (well-designed) box. That worked for them about as >> well as it did for Pandora. > > They insisted that assignment statements had to begin with “LET”, when > every other BASIC implementation out there had figured out how to make > the “LET” keyword optional. > > I think in a later release, they did finally swallow their pride and > relent to the prevailing tradition. But it was probably too late by > then. At least when 'let' reappeared in ES6 it served a useful purpose.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <Xt6PP.1827682$SZca.1420614@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #230668 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> writes: >Since traffic is presently so light ... > >In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed >that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no >competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening >to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for >fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface >of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable >Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers >of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an >FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board >service processor for debugging. There are commercially available FPGA with actual ARM Cortex-M series integrated cores. > But these guys are building CPU >implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and >experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of >register files versus L1 cache sizes. Albeit on a limited scale, generally reduced resource single-core implementations. Several of the participants have extensive experience in commercial processor development at AMD/Intel. >For fun and on reasonable (?) hobby budgets. I am in awe. Use of FPGA-based development is not limited to hobby processor designers. See, for example, Synopsys ZeBu or Cadence Palladium, which are used by most of the major SoC and processor designers as a component in design verification. Definitely not available on a hobby budget, however :-) > >In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they >designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design >and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to >figure out how to just write the script in Perl. They're more likely to use python than perl (python has a strong role in commercial processor chip development toolsets) in these modern times. > >And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools >I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my >goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. > >Some days I feel old ... I've been working with processor designers since 1983 - a lot has changed in the toolsets used (from Apollo workstations to modern cadence/synopsys tools), but the fundamentals of deMorgan's theorem haven't changed :-)
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| From | drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <thOdnTpb_4K5sZD1nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #230671 |
> They're more likely to use python than perl (python has a strong role > in commercial processor chip development toolsets) in these modern times. Because Perl got a bad rap after the Pentium bug that was caused by a something about a script and a transfer? :)
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <BOqPP.2347521$FVcd.1271006@fx10.iad> |
| In reply to | #230674 |
drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) writes: > > They're more likely to use python than perl (python has a strong role > > in commercial processor chip development toolsets) in these modern times. > >Because Perl got a bad rap after the Pentium bug that was caused >by a something about a script and a transfer? :) Please stop snipping attributions.
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <871pte34rp.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #230668 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> writes: > And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools > I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my > goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. Perl appears, at a glance, to be something that both C and Lisp hackers could love. Not so. I was an awk weenie intil Perl 4. As a complete amateur, I found that Perl has inet sockets that are easier than C and regexps better than awk. So all kinds of little scrips have made things better for me. Perl regexps can defecalize a horrible web page on the fly and return nice readble text! > Some days I feel old ... I actually *am* old. I learned C by reading K&R straight through until my brain siezed up (somewhere around struct bit fields) and started writing code. Can't do that any more. Bought the O'Reilly Rhino book on Javascript and have been intimidated. (But then, it's a litle longer than K&R. :-) -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100scvp.q43e.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230675 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> writes: >> And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools >> I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my >> goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. On 2025-04-26, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > Perl appears, at a glance, to be something that both C and Lisp > hackers could love. Not so. > > I was an awk weenie intil Perl 4. As a complete amateur, I found that > Perl has inet sockets that are easier than C and regexps better than > awk. So all kinds of little scrips have made things better for me. > Perl regexps can defecalize a horrible web page on the fly and return > nice readble text! I like that Perl looks superficially like C. Over the last 25 years, I have written a couple of systems of 4-5 KLOC, and been able to maintain them. Generally they are CGI web back-ends. One of them is a shipping/receiving tracking system for the business that prints packing lists for products we ship and RMAs for items that come back for repairs, so that we can display/print a history of a particular serial number. Another is managing online browsing of the family photo archive. >> Some days I feel old ... > I actually *am* old. I learned C by reading K&R straight through > until my brain siezed up (somewhere around struct bit fields) and > started writing code. Can't do that any more. Bought the O'Reilly > Rhino book on Javascript and have been intimidated. (But then, it's a > litle longer than K&R. :-) I turned 75 last month; I don't think that is too far out of range with most contributors here. I felt I should take a look at Python and Javascript, and bought the O'Reilly books for both. The three Python books add up to 7 inches of shelf space. The three Javascript books (one of which is not O'Reilly) about the same. And after spending half a day with each set trying to get into writing something that would have a bit of a dialog with a web screen menu, I decided that the benefit I might gain does not seem worth the uphill learning curve.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m77kd7Flse5U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230681 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > I like that Perl looks superficially like C. And awk, and a few other things Wall pasted together. I haven't used it in about 25 years and never really warmed to it. > I turned 75 last month; I don't think that is too far out of range with > most contributors here. Yeah, I'm 77, definitely a graybeard literally and figuratively. > I felt I should take a look at Python and Javascript, and bought the > O'Reilly books for both. The three Python books add up to 7 inches of > shelf space. The three Javascript books (one of which is not O'Reilly) > about the same. And after spending half a day with each set trying to > get into writing something that would have a bit of a dialog with a web > screen menu, I decided that the benefit I might gain does not seem worth > the uphill learning curve. It took me a while to get into the Python mindset and the use of spaces for structuring. However my job involved a good deal of GIS work with Esri. They had their own scripting language, Avenue, that was starting to be replaced with VBA around 2000. Around 2012 VBA was phased out in favor of Python 2.7. While a lot of what I did used the C++ ArcObjects API, Python was handy for manipulating geodata without getting into a whole C++ project. Esri finally went to Python 3 with their 11 release, and also got rid o the 32bit C++ API. Of course, Python 3 has breaking changes compared to Python 2. The same applies to JavaScript too. Esri has a Javascript API used for web based maps. One of the many ECMAScript (fancy name for Javascript) quirks is several incompatible ways to handle modules. The Esri 3.x API used CommonJS, which is associated with the Node.js back end server. With the 4.x API they introduced the ESM system that came about with ECMAScript 6 although you could still do the CommonJS scheme. I used Node for the first generation of web maps. When we developed a new web based product using Angular I switched to the ESM style. Also Angular technically uses the TypeScript superset of JavaScript that supports the ES6+ syntax. Luckily we started with Angular rather than AngularJS. AngularJS used JavaScript and Angular was rewritten in TypeScript. Another breaking change. It's been fun. One benefit of Perl is Perl 6 (or Raku, I guess) never really happened so Perl 5 is alive and well. It's hard to tell if anyone uses Raku; there are more hits on Japanese pottery techniques than the language.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9syPP.2742755$OrR5.1498330@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #230687 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > > >> I like that Perl looks superficially like C. > >And awk, and a few other things Wall pasted together. I haven't used it in >about 25 years and never really warmed to it. I've always considered Perl a write-only language.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m78595FoclsU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230688 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 22:45:25 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote: > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes: >>On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: >> >> >>> I like that Perl looks superficially like C. >> >>And awk, and a few other things Wall pasted together. I haven't used it >>in about 25 years and never really warmed to it. > > I've always considered Perl a write-only language. It doesn't have to be but it usually is. Over the years support and implementation people crafted Perl scripts to automate their tasks. Fine when they work but when they don't and they came to programming for fixes we disavowed all knowledge. 'Not our code base, not our monkeys.'
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vummmv$23kpm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230681 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > I felt I should take a look at Python and Javascript, and bought the > O'Reilly books for both. The three Python books add up to 7 inches of > shelf space. The three Javascript books (one of which is not O'Reilly) > about the same. And after spending half a day with each set trying to > get into writing something that would have a bit of a dialog with a web > screen menu, I decided that the benefit I might gain does not seem worth > the uphill learning curve. The only way to learn stuff nowadays is online. Books cost too much money, take up too much space, and get obsolete very quickly.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vummm0$23k6k$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230681 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > I felt I should take a look at Python and Javascript, and bought the > O'Reilly books for both. The three Python books add up to 7 inches of > shelf space. The three Javascript books (one of which is not O'Reilly) > about the same. And after spending half a day with each set trying to > get into writing something that would have a bit of a dialog with a web > screen menu, I decided that the benefit I might gain does not seem worth > the uphill learning curve. The only way to learn stuff nowadays is online. Books cost too much money, take up too much space, and get obsolete very quickly.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m78b21Foo9gU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230691 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 01:46:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > The only way to learn stuff nowadays is online. Books cost too much > money, > take up too much space, and get obsolete very quickly. I was scanning the bookshelves at work a couple of weeks ago. Many trees died in vain for most of the 25+ years of collection. I couldn't find anything worth taking with me.
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vun1bb$22hc5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230696 |
On 28 Apr 2025 03:30:09 GMT, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 01:46:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> The only way to learn stuff nowadays is online. Books cost too much >> money, >> take up too much space, and get obsolete very quickly. > > I was scanning the bookshelves at work a couple of weeks ago. Many trees > died in vain for most of the 25+ years of collection. I couldn't find > anything worth taking with me. You probably have Stevens' _Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment_, which is worth holding on to... -- -Scott System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.4 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "You're not paranoid if everybody is really after you."
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7a3uvF2ruvU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230697 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 04:48:43 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote: > You probably have Stevens' _Advanced Programming in the UNIX > Environment_, > which is worth holding on to... I'm not sure about that one but I do know 'Unix Network Programming' is somewhere on the shelves. There are also a couple sets of the X programming volumes. I don't see any more Motif programming in my future.
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| From | Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <3QiRP.11676$9zYa.9187@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #230691 |
On 4/27/2025 7:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:41:13 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> I felt I should take a look at Python and Javascript, and bought the >> O'Reilly books for both. The three Python books add up to 7 inches of >> shelf space. The three Javascript books (one of which is not O'Reilly) >> about the same. And after spending half a day with each set trying to >> get into writing something that would have a bit of a dialog with a web >> screen menu, I decided that the benefit I might gain does not seem worth >> the uphill learning curve. > The only way to learn stuff nowadays is online. Books cost too much money, > take up too much space, and get obsolete very quickly. It's a matter of preference, and it depends on the situation. If I need to learn basic concepts and get a general overview of something, I find it easier to read a book than to go online. If I need a reference, then online is the way to go. Your mileage may vary. Louis
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuk0t1$3jlsh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230668 |
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools > I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my > goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. I learned them all, and others besides. Because I am always on the lookout for what might be new and interesting. Or perhaps not so new, but still an interesting reinvention of an old idea. Like “stackless” coroutines (actually the “stackless” part is new).
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| From | Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuk14e$3kc4a$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230668 |
On 26 Apr 2025 at 7:28:52 CST, "Lars Poulsen" <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote: > Since traffic is presently so light ... > > In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed > that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no > competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening > to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for > fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface > of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable > Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers > of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an > FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board > service processor for debugging. But these guys are building CPU > implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and > experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of > register files versus L1 cache sizes. For fun and on reasonable (?) > hobby budgets. I am in awe. > > So it feels a bit like the early days of my career, when I was a > comparatively junior programmer in a data communications equipment > company in the early days when the Internet was still more or less a > secret guild. Before Cisco, when X.25 was the advanced infrastructure, > and the company was trying to hedge their bets between TCP/IP and the > ISO network architectures. I felt like I was sitting in the corner of > the upper class homeroom, listening to the smart kids and admiring > their work, and feeling privileged to be allowed to be there. > > It was much later that I appreciated that my contribution was to be > able to ask questions that were not completely stupid, but were > outside the bubbles that the smart guys sometimes wrapped themselves > in, as well to be a generalist, more of a jack-of-many-trades-but- > master-of-none. Did not make me rich, but allowed me to have more of a > life outside of work. > > In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they > designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design > and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to > figure out how to just write the script in Perl. > > And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools > I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my > goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. > > Some days I feel old ... Maybe I could get you interested in my book Programming Boot Sector Games, there are many success histories about people learning the basics of 8088 programming in assembler and able to code their own programs. Another of my books on assembler is Programming Games for Atari 2600, also with good reviews. Regards, -- Oscar Toledo G. Email: biyubi at gmail dot com "You may remember me from such books as Programming Boot Sector Games and More Boot Sector Games" I remember when companies used VAX
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