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Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-02 14:51 -0400
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-03 03:19 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 14:00 +0000
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 17:44 +0100
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-03 17:43 -0300
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 20:51 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-04 21:29 -0700
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-05 04:19 -0300
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-04 15:46 +0100
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 14:11 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 19:53 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-03 13:59 -0700
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 02:14 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:47 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-09-05 10:00 -0500
                    Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:16 +0000
                      Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:46 -0700
                        Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-09-18 09:19 +0000
                          Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-18 15:48 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-05 12:05 -0400
                    Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:20 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 18:05 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 23:00 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 16:27 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 18:30 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-08 00:17 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-06 08:50 +0100
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-06 11:16 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:50 -0700
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-06 15:04 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2021-09-09 02:04 +0000
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:37 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:50 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-09-16 20:22 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 14:11 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 14:05 -0700
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 22:55 +0100
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 15:40 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-16 18:57 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 22:33 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-17 07:13 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-05 10:44 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 09:44 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:43 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:51 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-05 14:11 +0000
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-05 18:31 -0300
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 19:45 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-05 13:01 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:27 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-06 23:59 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 09:41 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 11:54 +0100
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 10:58 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 13:42 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:58 -0700
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:42 +0000
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 15:12 +0100
                                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 17:40 +0000
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 13:42 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 14:53 +0100
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 12:45 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 06:00 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-08 16:17 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:55 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 17:40 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-16 18:16 +0000
                              JRRT's linguistic influences [was not really: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-17 16:35 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 19:19 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 23:26 +0000
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-16 18:12 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-16 20:55 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-16 14:41 -0700
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 23:15 +0100
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 14:12 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 15:34 -0700
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 06:09 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-09-10 18:25 +0200
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 01:40 -0400
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:38 +0100
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-05 10:49 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 11:22 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:31 +0100
                  OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:38 +0100
                    Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 12:15 +0100
                      Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:30 +0000
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-07 22:05 +0100
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-09-05 10:13 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 09:50 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 20:18 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 22:38 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 08:53 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-05 12:22 -0400
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 17:26 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 17:29 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-05 23:35 -0500
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:37 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 13:46 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 10:58 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 14:01 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 17:42 -0700
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 21:07 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 20:01 +0100
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-07 22:08 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-08 09:22 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 00:02 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 14:15 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 20:44 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-07 00:22 -0500
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 09:04 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-15 18:08 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 23:14 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 00:01 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-06 16:08 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 21:09 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-08 16:14 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-03 19:34 +0000
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-03 19:57 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-x4i-this> - 2021-09-03 08:00 -0700
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 15:09 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000

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#218870

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT)
> Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:37:57 PM UTC+10, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 2:47:53 AM UTC-6, The Natural
>>> Philosopher wrote: 
>>> 
>>>> Hence 'object oriented' rubbish and 'operator overloading' - sheesh
>>>> the worst idea EVER. Making a expresssion symbol dependent on the
>>>> context in which its being used. 
>>> 
>>> In FORTRAN, + - * and / work with INTEGER, REAL, DOUBLE PRECISION, and 
>>> COMPLEX variables equally well. 
>>> So operator overloading is not a bad idea - if it is used properly,
>>> instead of abused. 
>> 
>> And anyway, that isn't operator overloading.
> 
> 	Yes it is, as soon as the code required for the operation depends
> on the data types on either side of the operator it's overloaded. It's just
> done at the compiler level and not made extensible by the programmer in
> FORTRAN. Making it extensible by the programmer does of course open up all
> sorts of possibilities for abuse - but it is nonetheless useful when used
> appropriately to aid code clarity. For example if I happen to be writing
> code that deals with vectors a lot it would be useful to be able to add
> them and multiply them by scalars without wordy function calls obscuring
> the logic.
> 

You could always use PL/I. (or APL, I suppose)

-- 
Pete

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#218871

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:57:34 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:37:57 PM UTC+10, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 2:47:53 AM UTC-6, The Natural
>>>> Philosopher wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hence 'object oriented' rubbish and 'operator overloading' - sheesh
>>>>> the worst idea EVER. Making a expresssion symbol dependent on the
>>>>> context in which its being used. 
>>>> 
>>>> In FORTRAN, + - * and / work with INTEGER, REAL, DOUBLE PRECISION, and 
>>>> COMPLEX variables equally well. 
>>>> So operator overloading is not a bad idea - if it is used properly,
>>>> instead of abused. 
>>> 
>>> And anyway, that isn't operator overloading.
>> 
>> 	Yes it is, as soon as the code required for the operation depends
>> on the data types on either side of the operator it's overloaded. It's just
>> done at the compiler level and not made extensible by the programmer in
>> FORTRAN. Making it extensible by the programmer does of course open up all
>> sorts of possibilities for abuse - but it is nonetheless useful when used
>> appropriately to aid code clarity. For example if I happen to be writing
>> code that deals with vectors a lot it would be useful to be able to add
>> them and multiply them by scalars without wordy function calls obscuring
>> the logic.
>> 
>
>You could always use PL/I. (or APL, I suppose)

Numpy, which overloads the standard Python operators to give
functionality close to that of APL.

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#218872

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:57:34 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT)
> > 	Yes it is, as soon as the code required for the operation
> > depends on the data types on either side of the operator it's
> > overloaded. It's just done at the compiler level and not made
> > extensible by the programmer in FORTRAN. Making it extensible by the
> > programmer does of course open up all sorts of possibilities for abuse
> > - but it is nonetheless useful when used appropriately to aid code
> > clarity. For example if I happen to be writing code that deals with
> > vectors a lot it would be useful to be able to add them and multiply
> > them by scalars without wordy function calls obscuring the logic.
> > 
> 
> You could always use PL/I. (or APL, I suppose)

	I could, perhaps depending on policies, but vectors were
just an example of something not supported by the language where using
operators makes sense, there are many others and no language supports them
all unless it allows programmer defined operator overloading.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#218661

On 2021-09-04, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. 
>>> 
>>> 	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>> 
>>
>>COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>
> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
> below US minimum.
>
 1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
    Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
    idea.
 2) In India (according to a friend who worked there), you are expected
    to have servants if you earn a good salary.
 3) Unfortunatly, the universal trend to lower earning will lower US
    salaries in time.


    

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#218663

On 5 Sep 2021 10:44:00 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>On 2021-09-04, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. 
>>>> 
>>>> 	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>> 
>>>
>>>COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>>
>> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
>> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
>> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
>> below US minimum.
>>
> 1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
>    Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
>    idea.
> 2) In India (according to a friend who worked there), you are expected
>    to have servants if you earn a good salary.
> 3) Unfortunatly, the universal trend to lower earning will lower US
>    salaries in time.

I don't know what it is about Asia in general, but the accents just do
not sound good and are sometimes difficult to understand.  Noticing
that will get one harshly criticized in some circles though.  Our
Indians don't talk to customers though.

And the real problem is that the people in India are taking their good
wage and buying stuff in India, not in the US, and they can't afford
US made so they are buying local or Chinese.

And management doesn't see what's wrong with this.

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#218841

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 7:44:34 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> And the real problem is that the people in India are taking their good 
> wage and buying stuff in India, not in the US, and they can't afford 
> US made so they are buying local or Chinese. 

> And management doesn't see what's wrong with this.

That's not a problem for management. If they choose to
purchase other than the least expensive labor as an input
into their products, they will be destroyed by the competition.

If you want to prevent the free-market system from working
as intended, you need to enlist the aid of the government
in interfering with it, through things like tariff legislation.

John Savard

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#218854

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 05:43:17 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 7:44:34 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> And the real problem is that the people in India are taking their good 
>> wage and buying stuff in India, not in the US, and they can't afford 
>> US made so they are buying local or Chinese. 
>
>> And management doesn't see what's wrong with this.
>
>That's not a problem for management.

Well, yes, it is.

>If they choose to
>purchase other than the least expensive labor as an input
>into their products, they will be destroyed by the competition.

You mean like Henry Ford was?

>If you want to prevent the free-market system from working
>as intended, you need to enlist the aid of the government
>in interfering with it, through things like tariff legislation.

You mean like it helped Henry Ford?

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#218665

maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>On 2021-09-04, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2) In India (according to a friend who worked there), you are expected
>    to have servants if you earn a good salary.

This was true in the USA up through the 1950's.

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#218675

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>> On 2021-09-04, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 2) In India (according to a friend who worked there), you are expected
>>    to have servants if you earn a good salary.
> 
> This was true in the USA up through the 1950's.

I was there in the 1950s.  I didn't then know any really wealthy
people but many of my friends were from families with "good salary" --
professionals, CEOs, small biz owners.  None had servants although at
least one lived in a large house with (then disused) servants'
quaarters.  My family's landlady in 1954, over 90 and widow of a
locally prestigious clergyman, owned a house with elegant woodwork and
serants' quarters on the 3rd floor, albeit with less than superb
kitchen, bemoaned the impossibility of having servants.

OTOH, all of the senior academics I met during a decade-long,
itermittent excursion from my own rustication into up-scale academia
in the 80s & 90s, were married to other professionals of one sort or
another and they all had daily or live-in house keepers.

Re India: My son had an Indian math teacher whose accent he found
impenetrable.  When he said so, the teacher was greatly offended;
after all, he was highly educated (in India) and English was his first
language.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#218678

On 05 Sep 2021 18:31:33 -0300, Mike Spencer
<mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>> On 2021-09-04, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 2) In India (according to a friend who worked there), you are expected
>>>    to have servants if you earn a good salary.
>> 
>> This was true in the USA up through the 1950's.
>
>I was there in the 1950s.  I didn't then know any really wealthy
>people but many of my friends were from families with "good salary" --
>professionals, CEOs, small biz owners.  None had servants although at
>least one lived in a large house with (then disused) servants'
>quaarters.  My family's landlady in 1954, over 90 and widow of a
>locally prestigious clergyman, owned a house with elegant woodwork and
>serants' quarters on the 3rd floor, albeit with less than superb
>kitchen, bemoaned the impossibility of having servants.
>
>OTOH, all of the senior academics I met during a decade-long,
>itermittent excursion from my own rustication into up-scale academia
>in the 80s & 90s, were married to other professionals of one sort or
>another and they all had daily or live-in house keepers.
>
>Re India: My son had an Indian math teacher whose accent he found
>impenetrable.  When he said so, the teacher was greatly offended;
>after all, he was highly educated (in India) and English was his first
>language.

I find "say again" and "sorry, could you say that more slowly, I'm old
and my hearing isn't so good" is efficacious without giving offense.
It's really bad if it's a woman in the upper vocal range--my highs are
long gone.

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#218671

On 5 Sep 2021 10:44:00 GMT, maus wrote:
>
>  1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
>     Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
>     idea.

When I call a service hot line and have Apu (from the Simpsons) on the
line I hang up. I don't really understand them (not being a native English
speaker?), they don't understand me. Because in the past I ended up
"signing up" for an additional service I didn't ask for, while the
initial problem wasn't solved. Went through a lot of trouble because of this.
-- 
Andreas

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#218697

On 2021-09-05, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 5 Sep 2021 10:44:00 GMT, maus wrote:
>>
>>  1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
>>     Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
>>     idea.
>
> When I call a service hot line and have Apu (from the Simpsons) on the
> line I hang up. I don't really understand them (not being a native English
> speaker?), they don't understand me. Because in the past I ended up
> "signing up" for an additional service I didn't ask for, while the
> initial problem wasn't solved. Went through a lot of trouble because of this.
>
>
>

 There are almost twice as many English Speakers in India than the UK.
 Many non-Hindu speakers find English a more likable common tongue that
 Hindi
 I should stress that I find most Indians easy to deal with and
 competant. 

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#218723

On 6 Sep 2021 17:27:38 GMT, maus wrote:
>
> On 2021-09-05, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 5 Sep 2021 10:44:00 GMT, maus wrote:
>>>
>>>  1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
>>>     Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
>>>     idea.
>>
>> When I call a service hot line and have Apu (from the Simpsons) on the
>> line I hang up. I don't really understand them (not being a native English
>> speaker?), they don't understand me. Because in the past I ended up
>> "signing up" for an additional service I didn't ask for, while the
>> initial problem wasn't solved. Went through a lot of trouble because of this.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  There are almost twice as many English Speakers in India than the UK.
>  Many non-Hindu speakers find English a more likable common tongue that
>  Hindi

The owner of one of the convenience stores is from India. He also has a
lot of Indian customers he talks to in Hindi. Interestingly when it comes
to numbers he says them in English.

>  I should stress that I find most Indians easy to deal with and
>  competant. 

My problem might be that I am not a native English speaker. Already have
problems to understand the Welsh. ;-)
-- 
Andreas

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#218727

On 2021-09-07, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 6 Sep 2021 17:27:38 GMT, maus wrote:
>>
>> On 2021-09-05, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On 5 Sep 2021 10:44:00 GMT, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  1) Indian accents are a real turnoff for British users, even if the
>>>>     Indian is living in the UK (or Ireland). Poor answering soured the
>>>>     idea.
>>>
>>> When I call a service hot line and have Apu (from the Simpsons) on the
>>> line I hang up. I don't really understand them (not being a native English
>>> speaker?), they don't understand me. Because in the past I ended up
>>> "signing up" for an additional service I didn't ask for, while the
>>> initial problem wasn't solved. Went through a lot of trouble because of this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  There are almost twice as many English Speakers in India than the UK.
>>  Many non-Hindu speakers find English a more likable common tongue that
>>  Hindi
>
> The owner of one of the convenience stores is from India. He also has a
> lot of Indian customers he talks to in Hindi. Interestingly when it comes
> to numbers he says them in English.
>
I had an argument recently with a man from the Delhi area, My contention
was the Hindi and Urdu are essentially the same language, I should have
kept my mouth shut.


>>  I should stress that I find most Indians easy to deal with and
>>  competant. 
>
> My problem might be that I am not a native English speaker. Already have
> problems to understand the Welsh. ;-)
>

Nobody understands the Welsh language, but they are nice about it. Far
better than those who want to make Gaelic the only language in Ireland.

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#218728

On 07/09/2021 10:41, maus wrote:
>
> Nobody understands the Welsh language,


Cymraeg is the oldest European language in continuous use
but coming as it does long before any significant technological
developments has to now borrow words, mainly from English.

(Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")

This borrowing has resulted in the non-native letter, "J"
appearing in the Welsh alphabet.

Although he did not teach us any of it, being brought up
in Somerset, my father was a Welsh speaker and for his
school certificate (Precursor to the 'O' Levels) he
did English as the foreign language.

After he died, I inherited a large fraction of his
Welsh library, and I am trying to learn some of
the language in order to be able to read those books,
especially several volumes of the proceedings of the
National Eisteddfod.

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#218729

On 2021-09-07, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> (Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")

English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other
languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their
pockets for loose grammar.           -- James Nicoll

Niklas
-- 
To the typical Mac end-user, Unix is mysterious, and ancient, and strong. It's
made of cast iron and the bones of heroic programmers of old.
                       -- Table and Chair, Slashdot

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#218731

On 2021-09-07, Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2021-09-07, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> (Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")
>
> English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other
> languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their
> pockets for loose grammar.           -- James Nicoll
>
> Niklas
>
 ++

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#218845

On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 4:58:29 AM UTC-6, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2021-09-07, gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> wrote: 

> > (Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")

> English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other 
> languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their 
> pockets for loose grammar. -- James Nicoll

This is quite unfair to English. The Norman Conquest is hardly something
England did to France; it is rather quite the other way around.

John Savard

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#218848

On 2021-09-16, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 4:58:29 AM UTC-6, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>> On 2021-09-07, gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> wrote: 
>
>> > (Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")
>
>> English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other 
>> languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their 
>> pockets for loose grammar. -- James Nicoll
>
> This is quite unfair to English. The Norman Conquest is hardly something
> England did to France; it is rather quite the other way around.

There's a lot more than French involved, I'd say.

Niklas
-- 
Q: What sort of alcohol are you drinking in this heatwave?
A: Ethyl alcohol. Some might be drinking methyl alcohol, but they're probably
   in no shape to answer the question.

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#218850

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 05:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 4:58:29 AM UTC-6, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> > On 2021-09-07, gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> > > (Although English also borrows words such as, "Bungalow")
> 
> > English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other 
> > languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their 
> > pockets for loose grammar. -- James Nicoll
> 
> This is quite unfair to English. The Norman Conquest is hardly something
> England did to France; it is rather quite the other way around.

	That is true and accounts for the presence of a lot of French in
English but it doesn't account for all the bits the English nicked from
elsewhere while running an empire. Bungalow certainly did not come from
French for example.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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