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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #218117 > unrolled thread
| Started by | undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-06-16 11:59 -0700 |
| Last post | 2021-11-17 13:06 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 134 — 26 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-16 11:59 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-06-16 16:08 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:14 -0600
Re: s/3, s/34, s/36, and so forth not iBM System/3 FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-27 01:27 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-29 22:47 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 12:55 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 13:04 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-06-29 21:33 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:40 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-30 15:56 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-06-30 22:15 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-01 05:12 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 06:28 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-01 13:28 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-03 01:19 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-03 10:14 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 10:43 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@situ.com - 2021-11-02 07:18 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-02 09:26 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-02 05:07 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2021-11-02 15:28 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@hugin.membrane.com - 2021-11-16 01:50 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 11:25 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:34 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 15:56 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 20:57 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 18:26 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-05 13:39 -1000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 14:51 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:06 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 17:19 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:32 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:41 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:30 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-10 13:29 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 17:13 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 22:32 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-11 13:58 -1000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:03 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:19 -1000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -1000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:33 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 22:40 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 23:13 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-17 19:12 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 21:33 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-18 15:20 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:05 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-21 05:29 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 17:14 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:19 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:13 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:13 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-21 11:08 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:16 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:09 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 22:49 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:01 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 14:55 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-14 10:03 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:11 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-14 00:39 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:07 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:07 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:19 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:20 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-30 07:57 -0700
Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 02:23 +0000
Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 21:23 -0700
Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 18:46 +0000
Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 20:22 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-07-01 19:00 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-11-02 08:54 -0600
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-05 22:56 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 23:13 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 03:55 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 12:32 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-06 14:11 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 13:34 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:00 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:07 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:11 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:50 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:49 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 17:40 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-07 06:18 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 13:22 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:18 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:21 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:45 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:23 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:10 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:36 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 10:32 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-04 09:13 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-07 12:46 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-07 21:19 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:06 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 05:15 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 19:39 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2021-06-30 17:58 -0600
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-18 14:31 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-18 16:00 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:47 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:40 -0400
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:20 -0600
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-06-27 11:28 +0100
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-06-27 13:40 -1000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-06-27 16:00 -0500
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-17 09:47 -0800
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-17 18:06 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-17 22:28 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-18 01:00 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-18 01:51 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-18 06:06 +0000
Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 13:06 -0500
Page 5 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 Next page →
| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 18:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? |
| Message-ID | <scfe9r$2dv8$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #218345 |
According to Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>: >On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 12:23:30 PM UTC+10, John Levine wrote: >> One time I wrote a program that used an array of 12 bit fields and the code from PL/I F was stupendously >> bad. As I recall, each access converted the value to decimal and back, >. >The conversion to and from BIT strings is via binary, not decimal. Yes, I know, which is why I was rather surprised to see those decimal instructions. I assume that nobody used bit strings in lengths that weren't powers of 2 so the code was poorly debugged. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? |
| Message-ID | <1994315149.647725086.326194.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #218344 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > According to Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>: >> Unfortunately, he omitted to provide the REORDER keyword >> for the PROCEDURE statement in the case of IBM's PL/I compiler. ... > >> P. J. Jaliks compared COBOL and PL/I. His PL/I version ran slower by >> 2-3 times of because of inappropriate variable declarations and >> failure to disable fixed-point interrupts. ... > > PL/I makes it too easy to write bad programs, particularly if you don't > know the folklore about what is > efficient and what is not. > > One time I wrote a program that used an array of 12 bit fields and the > code from PL/I F was stupendously > bad. As I recall, each access converted the value to decimal and back, and no, I didn't > do picture formatting or anything like that. I expect that if I'd made > them 16 bit fields and just used > the low 12 bits it would have been OK, but I ran out of time. > Doesn’t seem like it should have converted to decimal anyway. Developing Iron Spring PL/I, one of the first things I did was try to have bit manipulations not be TOO outrageous, since the compiler itself does a lot of bit twiddling. Still some stuff needs to be cleaned up there, but most the code is decent. -- Pete
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-01 20:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ik6mgtFem57U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #218230 |
On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 11:25:39 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: >> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> schrieb: >> >>> One of my colleagues did his Ph.D. in the 1960s. He had also worked >>> for IBM. Part of his research was the construction of a general >>> purpose macro language and processor. >>> >>> As a piss take of IBM, he called it ML/I. (Macro Language 1) >>> >>> http://www.ml1.org.uk >> >> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming >> language that I would consier most unreadable). >> >> Or are there others? Joke languages like Intercal need not apply :-) >> >> > IBM’s PL/I preprocessor is fairly general-purpose. The macros are > written in an interpreted subset of PL/I. Indeed. He mentions that in one of the write-ups. But ML/I does rather more and is highly portable. -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-01 19:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mddtuldod1r.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #218226 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> schrieb:
>> One of my colleagues did his Ph.D. in the 1960s. He had also worked for
>> IBM. Part of his research was the construction of a general purpose macro
>> language and processor.
>> As a piss take of IBM, he called it ML/I. (Macro Language 1)
>> http://www.ml1.org.uk
> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming
> language that I would consier most unreadable).
> Or are there others? Joke languages like Intercal need not apply :-)
TECO macros, especially the MIT PDP-10 dialect of TECO in which the original
version of EMACS was written. Looks like line noise...
Old .sig:
Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991
Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170)
last name @ XKL dot COM Customer Interface, XKL LLC
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 08:54 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <slrjqk$r24$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #218226 |
On 6/30/21 11:12 PM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming
> language that I would consier most unreadable).
I learned about m4 as part of my Sendmail administration.
I've since adopted m4 to make multiple instances of -- what I describe
as -- an object oriented configuration language for things like:
1) the OpenSSH /client/ configuration file,
2) RWhoIs data
router(ip(...) ip(...) name(...))
router(name(...) ip(...) ip(...) ip(...))
router(comment(...) name(...))
3) the /etc/hosts file
I also use m4 for a number of other things.
I find the general purpose macro language to be quite useful.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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| From | antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-05 22:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sjil71$rfg$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> |
| In reply to | #218222 |
Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:56:40 -0400, Rich Alderson wrote:
>
> > (NB: When I first started programming, the language was called "PL/1"
> > in the
> > IBM manuals; by the time I started using it professionally, years
> > before the UChicago job, they had gone to the "PL/I" version of the
> > name.)
>
> One of my colleagues did his Ph.D. in the 1960s. He had also worked for
> IBM. Part of his research was the construction of a general purpose macro
> language and processor.
>
> As a piss take of IBM, he called it ML/I. (Macro Language 1)
>
> http://www.ml1.org.uk
>
The site says "sources" but I was not able to find neither LOWL sources
nor C sources. Is this intentional or are they somewhere?
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-05 23:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l_47J.85595$YW.57046@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #219353 |
On 2021-10-05, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: > The site says "sources" but I was not able to find neither LOWL sources > nor C sources. Is this intentional or are they somewhere? > Swift is what is most engineering language now, you need IQ more then 150 to program in it :P -- 7-77-777 Evil Sinner! to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 03:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <bba10029-9aee-4220-a8a9-a2fe82760c9bn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219358 |
On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 5:13:22 PM UTC-6, Branimir Maksimovic wrote: > Swift is what is most engineering language now, > you need IQ more then 150 to program in it From what I have heard of Swift, it is a nice language. But I thought it was only for writing applications for the Macintosh computer and iOS devices. John Savard
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| From | Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 12:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <DHg7J.139702$lC6.96235@fx41.iad> |
| In reply to | #219372 |
On 2021-10-06, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 5:13:22 PM UTC-6, Branimir Maksimovic wrote: > >> Swift is what is most engineering language now, >> you need IQ more then 150 to program in it > > From what I have heard of Swift, it is a nice language. > > But I thought it was only for writing applications for the > Macintosh computer and iOS devices. You can write on Linux also, only Windows is not supported, but on Linux you have to write everything from scratch as Foundation libraries are not available :P Swift is really C++ done right... > > John Savard Greets, Branimir. -- 7-77-777 Evil Sinner! to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 14:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20211006141131.7c376fe5e4b24109688d3066@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #219378 |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 12:32:35 GMT Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> wrote: > Swift is really C++ done right... I thought that was D. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 13:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rBh7J.45339$rsCb.15603@fx01.iad> |
| In reply to | #219384 |
On 2021-10-06, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 12:32:35 GMT > Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> wrote: > >> Swift is really C++ done right... > > I thought that was D. > D has GC, and is old, too mutch like Java... -- 7-77-777 Evil Sinner! to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 04:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ff5aed8b-12f2-473b-95b4-5c510a876d37n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219353 |
On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:56:34 PM UTC-6, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote: > The site says "sources" but I was not able to find neither LOWL sources > nor C sources. Is this intentional or are they somewhere? At first, I wasn't able to figure out where the sources were at all, but when I followed the links to the details of implementations for various operating systems, most didn't have sources, but the first source I did find... was in PLAN, for the GEORGE 3 operating system on the ICL 1900. So I suppose the site only has such sources as happen to be available, and the source for Microsoft Windows, which would have the most interest, is not among those. John Savard
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 04:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6d4d6374-5a9e-4f4d-b4b7-1d678b95820en@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219373 |
On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:01:00 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote: > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:56:34 PM UTC-6, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote: > > > The site says "sources" but I was not able to find neither LOWL sources > > nor C sources. Is this intentional or are they somewhere? > At first, I wasn't able to figure out where the sources were at all, but when > I followed the links to the details of implementations for various operating > systems, most didn't have sources, but the first source I did find... > > was in PLAN, for the GEORGE 3 operating system on the ICL 1900. > > So I suppose the site only has such sources as happen to be available, > and the source for Microsoft Windows, which would have the most interest, > is not among those. As for LOWL, which appears to have been a language similar to PL/360, what I did find was that for the IBM 370 implementation for MVS, they had at least the *assembler* sources, *plus* the macros used in converting from LOWL to assembler. So you might be able to work backwards. John Savard
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 04:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a5dfef22-7f5a-4a44-a127-feb292fac786n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219374 |
On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:07:24 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote: > As for LOWL, which appears to have been a language similar to PL/360, what > I did find was that for the IBM 370 implementation for MVS, they had at least > the *assembler* sources, *plus* the macros used in converting from LOWL to > assembler. So you might be able to work backwards. Ah. I now see that LOWL is not specific to System/370, but instead is specific to ML/1. It was described in "Macro Languages and Portable Software" by Peter C. Brown. So the LOWL source would have been the basis for all the implementations, not just for the IBM mainframe implementation. John Savard
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 12:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <is5kbqFsujvU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #219375 |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 04:11:51 -0700, Quadibloc wrote: > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 5:07:24 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote: > >> As for LOWL, which appears to have been a language similar to PL/360, >> what I did find was that for the IBM 370 implementation for MVS, they >> had at least the *assembler* sources, *plus* the macros used in >> converting from LOWL to assembler. So you might be able to work >> backwards. > > Ah. I now see that LOWL is not specific to System/370, but instead is > specific to ML/1. It was described in "Macro Languages and Portable > Software" by Peter C. Brown. > > So the LOWL source would have been the basis for all the > implementations, > not just for the IBM mainframe implementation. Very early ones were done with L, but not many. The 370 one was done with LOWL. I remember doing that one... -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 12:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <is5k9tFsujvU7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #219374 |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 04:07:23 -0700, Quadibloc wrote: > As for LOWL, which appears to have been a language similar to PL/360, > what I did find was that for the IBM 370 implementation for MVS, they > had at least the *assembler* sources, *plus* the macros used in > converting from LOWL to assembler. So you might be able to work > backwards. LOWL is an assembly language. PL/360 is a bit higher level than that. You may be thinking of L, which was the original implementation language for ML/I. Quite difficult to map, hence the low level version - LOWL. And both L and LOWL versions are on the site. http://www.ml1.org.uk/implementation.html -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 17:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5bd84613-938f-42aa-a8bb-4bbf49802557n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219380 |
On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:49:03 AM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote: > And both L and LOWL versions are on the site. > > http://www.ml1.org.uk/implementation.html As you may have seen from my later posts, I eventually did find them myself; between my posts and yours, Waldek Hebisch, who originally asked about C and LOWL sources, should be able to find what he needs. John Savard
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-07 06:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <is7hqaFl7dbU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #219394 |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 17:40:29 -0700, Quadibloc wrote: > On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:49:03 AM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote: > >> And both L and LOWL versions are on the site. >> >> http://www.ml1.org.uk/implementation.html > > As you may have seen from my later posts, I eventually did find them > myself; between my posts and yours, Waldek Hebisch, who originally asked > about C and LOWL sources, > should be able to find what he needs. > > John Savard Yes, I thought I'd highlight the fact that the L version (even if only of historical interest) is there too. THere's also a BCPL version somewhere, but not on the site. -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 13:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <is5m8lFsujvU9@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #219374 |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 04:07:23 -0700, Quadibloc wrote: > As for LOWL, which appears to have been a language similar to PL/360, > what I did find was that for the IBM 370 implementation for MVS, they > had at least the *assembler* sources, *plus* the macros used in > converting from LOWL to assembler. So you might be able to work > backwards. Essentially, there are all the sources I have been able to find. I did many of the implementations myself, so they are mostly there (I have lost one or two). In particular, I don't have the PDP-10 version, but that would be pretty easy (I may do it sometime). I did do it originally, in competition with a guy implementing STAGE2! -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-06 04:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4c79c5f1-08b9-4222-8609-f020963b09b5n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219353 |
On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 4:56:34 PM UTC-6, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote: > The site says "sources" but I was not able to find neither LOWL sources > nor C sources. Is this intentional or are they somewhere? It turns out the LOWL source is linked to from *this* page: http://www.ml1.org.uk/implementation.html about "How ML/1 is implemented", since it is the root from which many implementations on different platforms were developed. From the discussion there, it appears that many implementors at one time had access to the "C-Map", Bob Eager's conversion of the source for ML/1 to C. Even though I didn't notice it on the site, then, that implies there is a good chance of it floating around somewhere. John Savard
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