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Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book"

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  Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-18 21:46 +0000
    Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-19 01:02 -0800
      Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-19 10:24 +0000
        Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-19 02:43 -0800
          Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-19 12:00 +0000
        Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-19 12:07 +0000
          Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-20 12:38 +0000
            Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Paul_news <paul@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-20 19:56 +0000
              Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-20 20:14 +0000
                Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-21 21:52 +0000
                  Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Paul_news <paul@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-21 23:16 +0000
                  Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2021-01-21 18:44 -0600
                    Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-22 21:02 +0000
                      Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-23 12:52 -0800
                        Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-24 21:21 +0000
        Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2021-01-19 07:58 -0700
          Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-19 18:50 +0000
            Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:41 -0500
              Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-23 15:17 +0000
              Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-01-24 08:08 +0000
          Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-25 17:55 -0800
            Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2021-01-26 08:42 -0700
    Re: Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-01-19 01:03 -0800

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#216391 — Computer from Nero Wolfe "Murder by the book"

I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981
TV series "Nero Wolfe".  A computer at a law firm figures rather
prominently in the plot.

Has anybody seen that and know what system it was, by any chance?
It features tape a tape drive and numerous tapes, but seems to
be more of a microfiche system, or maybe a word processor (but no
printer in evidence).  The manufacturer's label could not really
be read.

Or was it just random computer props put together?

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#216393

On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981 
> TV series "Nero Wolfe". A computer at a law firm figures rather 
> prominently in the plot. 

The episode is on YouTube, but I couldn't find a scene anywhere in it
that featured a computer. Are you sure you're thinking of the right
episode?

John Savard

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#216399

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
> On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981 
>> TV series "Nero Wolfe". A computer at a law firm figures rather 
>> prominently in the plot. 
>
> The episode is on YouTube,

Sorry, I mislabled the episode.  What I mean is actually "Murder
by the Book".

What you find on YouTube isn't the correct episode either.
I only found a black-and-white one which is longer
than the DVD version I have (for unclear reasons) at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE .

There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20
and 0:36:00.  There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal (0:24:47).

However, the quality of that particular video is even worse than
what I have on my DVD, so it is unlikely to be much help in recognizing
brand names.

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#216400

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:24:09 AM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:

> There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20 
> and 0:36:00. There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal (0:24:47). 

The poor quality of the video aside, it's still possible to answer your question
from it.

The tape drive, with two reels vertically one above the other, is clearly from
the 1950s, while the terminal is modern and thus from the 1970s. So it is
indeed "a random collection of computer props" and not an actual computer
system.

John Savard

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#216402

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 02:43:59 -0800, Quadibloc wrote:

> The tape drive, with two reels vertically one above the other, is
> clearly from the 1950s,

Is that because the two reels are vertically one above the other, or 
because there is something else you can see?

I would disagree with the former as a reason.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#216403

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:24:08 GMT, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> 
wrote:

> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
>> On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981 
>>> TV series "Nero Wolfe". A computer at a law firm figures rather 
>>> prominently in the plot. 
>>
>> The episode is on YouTube,
> 
> Sorry, I mislabled the episode.  What I mean is actually "Murder
> by the Book".
> 
> What you find on YouTube isn't the correct episode either.
> I only found a black-and-white one which is longer
> than the DVD version I have (for unclear reasons) at
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE .
> 
> There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20
> and 0:36:00.  There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal 
(0:24:47).
> 
> However, the quality of that particular video is even worse than
> what I have on my DVD, so it is unlikely to be much help in recognizing
> brand names.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE&t=24m45s
shows the computer room. I can't help in identifying the equipment 
though.

-- 
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

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#216412

On 19/01/2021 12:07, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE&t=24m45s
> shows the computer room. I can't help in identifying the equipment
> though.

I'm not even sure that's a real tape drive, rather than something the 
props department knocked up.

All the mainframe drives I used back in the 70s and 80s had the reels 
offset to one side. The head mechanism was roughly level with the reels, 
and of significant size.

This was true of both the ones that used tension arms, and those that 
used vacuum chambers to allow the tape over the head to accelerate much 
more rapidly than the reels could.

Andy

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#216434

On 20/01/2021 12:38, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 19/01/2021 12:07, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE&t=24m45s
>> shows the computer room. I can't help in identifying the equipment
>> though.
> 
> I'm not even sure that's a real tape drive, rather than something the 
> props department knocked up.
> 
> All the mainframe drives I used back in the 70s and 80s had the reels 
> offset to one side. The head mechanism was roughly level with the reels, 
> and of significant size.
> 
> This was true of both the ones that used tension arms, and those that 
> used vacuum chambers to allow the tape over the head to accelerate much 
> more rapidly than the reels could.
> 
> Andy

The BASF tape drives our site in the 70s/80s had reels above & below.
Those don't look similar, ours had take-up reel behind a door.
Side by side drives were wider, an issue for small sites/many drives.

Paul.

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#216437

Paul_news <paul@invalid.invalid> writes:
>On 20/01/2021 12:38, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 19/01/2021 12:07, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE&t=24m45s
>>> shows the computer room. I can't help in identifying the equipment
>>> though.
>> 
>> I'm not even sure that's a real tape drive, rather than something the 
>> props department knocked up.
>> 
>> All the mainframe drives I used back in the 70s and 80s had the reels 
>> offset to one side. The head mechanism was roughly level with the reels, 
>> and of significant size.
>> 
>> This was true of both the ones that used tension arms, and those that 
>> used vacuum chambers to allow the tape over the head to accelerate much 
>> more rapidly than the reels could.
>> 
>> Andy
>
>The BASF tape drives our site in the 70s/80s had reels above & below.
>Those don't look similar, ours had take-up reel behind a door.
>Side by side drives were wider, an issue for small sites/many drives.

The DEC TU45 on the VAX had over-and-under reels.

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#216461

On 20/01/2021 20:14, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Paul_news<paul@invalid.invalid>  writes:

>> The BASF tape drives our site in the 70s/80s had reels above & below.
>> Those don't look similar, ours had take-up reel behind a door.
>> Side by side drives were wider, an issue for small sites/many drives.

Were the reels in the centre, or offset?

> The DEC TU45 on the VAX had over-and-under reels.

Given the model number I can look at a picture. It had vacuum chambers 
to the left of the reels, so the reels were offset to the right.

Andy

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#216463

On 21/01/2021 21:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 20/01/2021 20:14, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Paul_news<paul@invalid.invalid>  writes:
> 
>>> The BASF tape drives our site in the 70s/80s had reels above & below.
>>> Those don't look similar, ours had take-up reel behind a door.
>>> Side by side drives were wider, an issue for small sites/many drives.
> 
> Were the reels in the centre, or offset?

Similar to this I think, offset to the left.
<https://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/thumb.monash3.jpg>
Take up spool under vacuum slots.
Press 1 button so glass slides down
put tape in auto-load collar on drive
press a button and glass closes, tape loads & readies.

I could not find an image of the drives we had.
Ours were BASF later re-badged as Comparex when we got their m/f.
Not sure who made them and who badged, m/f later badged Hitachi.

> 
>> The DEC TU45 on the VAX had over-and-under reels.
> 
> Given the model number I can look at a picture. It had vacuum chambers 
> to the left of the reels, so the reels were offset to the right.
> 
> Andy

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#216464

Vir Campestris wrote:

> On 20/01/2021 20:14, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Paul_news<paul@invalid.invalid>  writes:
> 
>>> The BASF tape drives our site in the 70s/80s had reels above & below.
>>> Those don't look similar, ours had take-up reel behind a door.
>>> Side by side drives were wider, an issue for small sites/many drives.
> 
> Were the reels in the centre, or offset?
> 
>> The DEC TU45 on the VAX had over-and-under reels.
> 
All tape drives that fit into a 19" rack were top/bottom, as the reels were 
12" diameter.  Yes, the reels were to one side, and the head and capstan 
were on the other side.  Pertec, Kennedy, Digi-Data, CDC and plenty of other 
companies made these drives.

The IBM 24xx series drives had to be much wider to accommdate side-by-side 
reels.

Jon

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#216470

On 22/01/2021 00:44, Jon Elson wrote:
> All tape drives that fit into a 19" rack were top/bottom, as the reels were
> 12" diameter.  Yes, the reels were to one side, and the head and capstan
> were on the other side.  Pertec, Kennedy, Digi-Data, CDC and plenty of other
> companies made these drives.
> 
> The IBM 24xx series drives had to be much wider to accommdate side-by-side
> reels.

And the ones in the OP were symmetrical. See

 >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE .

 >> There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20
 >> and 0:36:00.  There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal
 >> (0:24:47).

I think they were mocked up props, not real ones.

Andy

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#216484

On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 2:02:44 PM UTC-7, Vir Campestris wrote:

> I think they were mocked up props, not real ones. 

They're not similar to the 19-inch rack vertical reel models discussed
in this thread. But real tape drives looking like them did exist, but in
the vacuum tube eara of computing. It would have been cheaper to
use real old junk than have someone make a prop.

John Savard

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#216490

On 23/01/2021 20:52, Quadibloc wrote:
> They're not similar to the 19-inch rack vertical reel models discussed
> in this thread. But real tape drives looking like them did exist, but in
> the vacuum tube eara of computing. It would have been cheaper to
> use real old junk than have someone make a prop.
> 
I'm old, but not that old :)

Do you have any pictures?

Andy

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#216404

Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:

> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
>> On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981 
>>> TV series "Nero Wolfe". A computer at a law firm figures rather 
>>> prominently in the plot. 
>>
>> The episode is on YouTube,
>
> Sorry, I mislabled the episode.  What I mean is actually "Murder
> by the Book".
>
> What you find on YouTube isn't the correct episode either.
> I only found a black-and-white one which is longer
> than the DVD version I have (for unclear reasons) at
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE .
>
> There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20
> and 0:36:00.  There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal (0:24:47).

I'm pretty sure that terminal is a TEC Model 70.  I had one in the
1980s -- weighed a ton, but had a nice separate keyboard (mechanical
keys, of course, but I don't remember it sounding like a typewriter!).
I haven't been able to find any real information about it on line in a
brief search, but here's a photo (not my auction):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-TEC-Model-70-CRT-Terminal-Ad-Stability-/224103237620

> However, the quality of that particular video is even worse than
> what I have on my DVD, so it is unlikely to be much help in recognizing
> brand names.

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#216408

Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> schrieb:
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
>>> On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-7, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>> I just watched the episode "What Happened to April" from the 1981 
>>>> TV series "Nero Wolfe". A computer at a law firm figures rather 
>>>> prominently in the plot. 
>>>
>>> The episode is on YouTube,
>>
>> Sorry, I mislabled the episode.  What I mean is actually "Murder
>> by the Book".
>>
>> What you find on YouTube isn't the correct episode either.
>> I only found a black-and-white one which is longer
>> than the DVD version I have (for unclear reasons) at
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMbE8ScdtE .
>>
>> There, you can see the computer system starting at around 0:24:20
>> and 0:36:00.  There clearly is a tape system, plus a terminal (0:24:47).
>
> I'm pretty sure that terminal is a TEC Model 70.

Yes, that looks a lot like it.

Doesn't really fit the tape drive, though.

The storyline contains an amusing early twist of the password
guessing game that has become so popular later.  In this case,
it's not a password, it is a filename that needs to be guessed
in order to access the file.

Apparently, the scriptwriters had not yet heard of the "ls" or
"dir" commands, they probably hadn't yet used a PC.

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#216480

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> In this case,
> it's not a password, it is a filename that needs to be guessed
> in order to access the file.

That's been true of shopping for ages -- I couldn't buy a grease
pencil until I learned that it was a china marker.

It's particularly annoying when the curb-service web page advertises a
product that the search box is confident doesn't exist.

But I'll be allowed to go into a grocery store starting St. Patrick's
Day!

Assuming that California does nothing obviously stupid, such as
exporting the new strains they have incubated.

-- 
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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#216481

On 2021-01-23, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> In this case,
>> it's not a password, it is a filename that needs to be guessed
>> in order to access the file.
>
> That's been true of shopping for ages -- I couldn't buy a grease
> pencil until I learned that it was a china marker.
>
> It's particularly annoying when the curb-service web page advertises a
> product that the search box is confident doesn't exist.
>
> But I'll be allowed to go into a grocery store starting St. Patrick's
> Day!
>

Don't be too sure. The usual Winter sicknesses subside after 1st April
or so, and those set above us by God, may allow some letup then.

>>
> Assuming that California does nothing obviously stupid, such as
> exporting the new strains they have incubated.
>


-- 
greymausg@mail.com

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#216485

Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
> <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> 
>> In this case,
>> it's not a password, it is a filename that needs to be guessed
>> in order to access the file.
> 
> That's been true of shopping for ages -- I couldn't buy a grease
> pencil until I learned that it was a china marker.
> 
> It's particularly annoying when the curb-service web page advertises a
> product that the search box is confident doesn't exist.
> 
> But I'll be allowed to go into a grocery store starting St. Patrick's
> Day!

About the same for us, assuming  they come thru with our second doses on
schedule. I never thought I’d be so excited by the thought of going into a
grocery store and shopping.

> 
> Assuming that California does nothing obviously stupid, such as
> exporting the new strains they have incubated.
> 



-- 
Pete

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