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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #213882 > unrolled thread

Keyboards again

Started byDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
First post2020-09-07 19:51 -0400
Last post2020-09-08 19:59 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 171 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 19:51 -0400
    Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 21:03 -0400
      Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:16 -0700
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 21:50 -0400
      Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:12 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 23:51 -0400
          Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 17:40 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 18:04 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-08 13:19 -0500
          Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 14:48 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-08 21:26 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 14:48 -0700
              Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 17:52 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 00:51 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 17:42 +0000
                  Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 19:50 +0100
                    Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 19:49 +0000
                      Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 21:18 +0100
                        Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:44 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Freddy1X <freddy1X@indyX.netX> - 2020-09-08 21:59 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:10 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-09 15:27 -0700
                  Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-10 17:47 -0400
                  Re: Keyboards again Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-11 01:26 -0500
                    Re: Keyboards again Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-12 06:20 +0000
                      Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-12 12:27 +0000
                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-12 13:07 +0000
                        Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-12 20:15 -0400
                        Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-03 21:57 +0100
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-03 22:11 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-03 22:00 +0000
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-03 19:26 -0400
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 09:02 +0000
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-04 12:22 +0100
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 16:42 +0000
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:39 +0100
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 22:06 +0000
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-04 08:30 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) the "Swampster" <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-06 12:13 +0000
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 14:30 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 10:06 -0400
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 11:17 -0400
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:30 +0100
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-10-04 19:13 +0000
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 19:07 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-10-05 01:23 +0000
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 09:54 +0100
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 05:34 -0700
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 13:47 +0100
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 11:22 -0400
                                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-05 11:03 -0700
                                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 11:10 -0700
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-10-05 18:27 +0000
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-05 20:03 +0100
                                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 18:20 -0400
                                              Re: Barcodes Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 19:05 -0400
                                                Re: Barcodes J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 23:57 -0400
                                                  Re: Barcodes scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-10-06 15:30 +0000
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 16:52 -0700
                                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 23:54 -0400
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-05 21:53 -0700
                                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-06 07:33 -0400
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 11:21 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-10-04 22:38 -0500
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-04 21:19 -0700
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-10-05 03:04 -0500
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-05 11:01 +0100
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 05:34 -0700
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-10-05 10:06 -0500
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-10-06 21:16 +0000
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-07 06:38 +0100
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-05 12:36 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 08:00 +0100
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:28 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 19:06 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-05 12:33 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 08:24 +0100
                      Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-12 20:02 -0400
                        Re: Keyboards again Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-13 07:05 +0000
                          Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-13 09:24 +0100
                          Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 09:38 +0000
                            Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-13 19:20 -0400
                              Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 23:54 +0000
                              Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:47 +0000
                                Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 18:35 -0400
                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:44 +0000
                              Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 20:29 +0100
                                Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-15 21:21 +0000
                                Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
                                  Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-16 07:56 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-16 10:16 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-16 09:55 +0000
                                  Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 11:25 -0500
                                  Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-16 17:42 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 18:03 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 13:57 -0500
                                      Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 19:08 +0000
                                        Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 16:48 -0500
                                      Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-17 06:55 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-16 21:03 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 16:53 -0500
                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 21:55 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 07:20 +0000
                                      Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 10:06 -0500
                                        Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 11:15 -0400
                                          Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 12:37 -0500
                                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 20:07 +0000
                                              Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 10:01 -0500
                                                Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-18 16:45 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-18 11:22 -0700
                                          Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 19:59 +0000
                                            Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-19 23:25 +0000
                                              Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-20 12:03 +0100
                                                Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-20 14:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-20 16:08 +0100
                                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 10:52 -0500
                                                    Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 09:09 +0000
                                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 09:07 +0000
                                                      Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 14:32 +0100
                                                        Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 13:37 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:45 +0000
                                                          Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-22 12:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:37 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-22 13:38 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 09:31 -0500
                                                          Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-22 15:39 -0700
                                                            Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 20:55 -0400
                                                              Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-22 19:39 -0700
                                                                Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-23 00:13 -0400
                                                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-23 10:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:48 -0400
                                                  Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-21 19:35 +0000
                                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 09:22 -0500
                          Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-13 15:34 +0000
                            Re: Keyboards again Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-13 17:54 -0300
                          Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-13 10:53 -0500
                            Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-13 17:50 +0000
                              Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-13 19:35 +0100
                                Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-13 19:33 +0000
                                  Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-14 06:02 +0000
                                  Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-14 07:46 +0100
                            Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-13 15:01 -0500
                          Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-13 19:25 -0400
                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 09:37 +0000
                        Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-03 22:00 +0100
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 14:38 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:36 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-10 10:39 +0100
              Re: Keyboards again Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-09 06:02 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-09 14:14 +0000
                Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 10:18 -0400
              Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:49 -0500
              Re: Keyboards again mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-09-09 20:36 +0100
              Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-09 18:51 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-10 16:24 +0000
                  Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 14:58 -0500
                Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-10 17:12 +0100
                  Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-10 17:49 -0400
    Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:09 -0700
      Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:14 -0700
      Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:19 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 20:14 -0700
          Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 20:32 -0700
        Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-08 09:44 +0000
      Re: Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-08 10:49 +0100
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 07:17 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 08:02 -0400
          Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:33 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:59 -0400

Page 2 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  Next page →

#214003

Fromgareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
Date2020-09-09 11:10 +0100
Message-ID<rja9mu$olp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213994
On 09/09/2020 02:59, Freddy1X wrote:
>
> Blue LEDs?  I can remember when red LEDs was a new and upcoming thing.
> Kids!  Harumph!

1972, my final year at Essex Uni, I was spending £3 per week to cover
all my living expenses, food, drink, stationery, etc.

For our final year project, one guy had special dispensation from
the Uni powers-that-be to include a red LED in his project, costing
£5 ! ! ! !

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#214043

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2020-09-09 15:27 -0700
Message-ID<e1b293ff-8d12-4121-a39c-fa905b9bda95o@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#213994
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 8:00:17 PM UTC-6, Freddy1X wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
 
> > Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
> > because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
> > were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
> > red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
> ( cuts )

> Blue LEDs?  I can remember when red LEDs was a new and upcoming thing.  
> Kids!  Harumph!

Indeed. Of course I remember the days when all we had were CD-ROMs and DVDs 
because the shortest-wavelength LEDs available were green ones, which weren't 
enough of an improvement on the red LEDs used in DVDs (CDs used infra-red) to 
bother.

And I remember when not only there weren't any LEDs of any color at all, but 
even transistors were so expensive electronics usually used vacuum tubes!!

And when people used slide rules because they didn't have pocket calculators.

But I'm not old enough to remember when people used the abacus instead because 
logarithms weren't invented yet. That was before my time.

John Savard

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#214115

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-09-10 17:47 -0400
Message-ID<87h7s5b8xe.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#214043
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 15:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc wrote:
>
> Indeed. Of course I remember the days when all we had were CD-ROMs and DVDs 
> because the shortest-wavelength LEDs available were green ones, which weren't 
> enough of an improvement on the red LEDs used in DVDs (CDs used infra-red) to 
> bother.

In late 1986 I sat with a friend at his home, who worked for an
electronic form programming elevators. He had these small plastic
drawers, each filled with different electronics. One was full of red,
another with green and I think a third with yellow LEDs. I asked if there
weren't any blue for additive color mixing. He said "no" and that they'll
probably never will exist. He tried me to explain why but that was way
over my head. And wrong anyway, as we know today.

Was a good time. I wore a dead 6502 around my neck after drilling a hole
in. We sat there, having beer, programming 6502 assembly and he soldered
stuff together.
-- 
Andreas

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#214139

FromDave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
Date2020-09-11 01:26 -0500
Message-ID<rjf5a5$lv4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#214043
On 9/9/2020 5:27 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 8:00:17 PM UTC-6, Freddy1X wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>   
>>> Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
>>> because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
>>> were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
>>> red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
>> ( cuts )
> 
>> Blue LEDs?  I can remember when red LEDs was a new and upcoming thing.
>> Kids!  Harumph!
> 
> Indeed. Of course I remember the days when all we had were CD-ROMs and DVDs
> because the shortest-wavelength LEDs available were green ones, which weren't
> enough of an improvement on the red LEDs used in DVDs (CDs used infra-red) to
> bother.
> 
> And I remember when not only there weren't any LEDs of any color at all, but
> even transistors were so expensive electronics usually used vacuum tubes!!
> 
> And when people used slide rules because they didn't have pocket calculators.
> 
> But I'm not old enough to remember when people used the abacus instead because
> logarithms weren't invented yet. That was before my time.

You're old enough, just the wrong culture. (You don't need logs for 
add/subtract.) Asia used them for a long time. When I was in college I 
learned the soroban (Japanese abacus, I had a couple of slide rules 
but wanted better than 3 digit precision for add/subtract). It was 
pretty straightforward, but required more practice than I was willing 
to do to become proficient. I remember reports of a competition where 
a 10-key adding machine operator couldn't keep up with a proficient 
soroban operator. I suppose that's still true, if there are any 
proficient abacus operators left these days.

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#214178

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2020-09-12 06:20 +0000
Message-ID<rjhpbe$d29$2@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#214139
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> schrieb:
> I remember reports of a competition where 
> a 10-key adding machine operator couldn't keep up with a proficient 
> soroban operator. I suppose that's still true, if there are any 
> proficient abacus operators left these days.

It would be interesting to see how that would work in competition
with, let's say, a bar code scanner at a supermarket cash register.
These don't work perfectly either...

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#214184

Frommaus <maus@dmaus.org>
Date2020-09-12 12:27 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrlpflj.8gf.maus@dmaus.org>
In reply to#214178
On 2020-09-12, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> schrieb:
>> I remember reports of a competition where 
>> a 10-key adding machine operator couldn't keep up with a proficient 
>> soroban operator. I suppose that's still true, if there are any 
>> proficient abacus operators left these days.
>
> It would be interesting to see how that would work in competition
> with, let's say, a bar code scanner at a supermarket cash register.
> These don't work perfectly either...

Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
packet), and so on.

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#214187

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-09-12 13:07 +0000
Message-ID<hs3vg1FrpevU15@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214184
On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 +0000, maus wrote:

> On 2020-09-12, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> schrieb:
>>> I remember reports of a competition where a 10-key adding machine
>>> operator couldn't keep up with a proficient soroban operator. I
>>> suppose that's still true, if there are any proficient abacus
>>> operators left these days.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see how that would work in competition with,
>> let's say, a bar code scanner at a supermarket cash register.
>> These don't work perfectly either...
> 
> Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
> disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
> like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
> packet), and so on.

I used to set an assessment for students. They had to read a bar code in 
real time, i.e. detect the transitions, work out a threshold for wide/
narrow based on averaging and the total transit time, reverse the scan if 
necessary, and generate a correct result.

It was all interrupt driven and in 68000 assembler. Most managed it.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214201

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-09-12 20:15 -0400
Message-ID<874ko2mt11.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#214184
On 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT, maus wrote:
>
> Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
> disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
> like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
> packet), and so on.

There are apps for smartphones. Instead of a database as back end it would
check the internet. That even works for some grocery store items. Next to
bar codes they also read QR code and others.
-- 
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

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#214642 — Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromJan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
Date2020-10-03 21:57 +0100
SubjectBarcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<jfi.5F78E5C5.42.fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
In reply to#214184
12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:

[Schnipp]

>Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
>like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
>packet), and so on.

Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
data.
-- 
                   | Hy doet het niet, die deur.
Jan v/d Broek      | Wat een akelige deur.
balglaas@xs4all.nl | De deur die stuk was.
                   | Jan jr. 28-III-'04

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#214643 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-10-03 22:11 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<20201003221147.f7380a7ae515d04c9d05b016@eircom.net>
In reply to#214642
On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 21:57:41 MET
Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
> 
> [Schnipp]
> 
> >Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
> >disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
> >like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
> >packet), and so on.
> 
> Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
> data.

	There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214644 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-10-03 22:00 +0000
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<htsak1FtmmrU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214643
On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 22:11:47 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 21:57:41 MET Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
> 
>> 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
>> 
>> [Schnipp]
>> 
>> >Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>> >disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
>> >like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
>> >packet), and so on.
>> 
>> Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
>> data.
> 
> 	There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
> codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.

For QR codes, actually up to 7000 digits or 4000 characters. Look at the 
NHS QP code app, and how big those are. They are signed, too.

(source: pkg install libqrencode; man qrencode)




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214645 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-10-03 19:26 -0400
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<g12inf5i6rlgqk7faej66eivi5pluhoh6s@4ax.com>
In reply to#214644
On 3 Oct 2020 22:00:33 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 22:11:47 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 21:57:41 MET Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
>>> 
>>> [Schnipp]
>>> 
>>> >Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>>> >disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
>>> >like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
>>> >packet), and so on.
>>> 
>>> Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
>>> data.
>> 
>> 	There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
>> codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.
>
>For QR codes, actually up to 7000 digits or 4000 characters. Look at the 
>NHS QP code app, and how big those are. They are signed, too.
>
>(source: pkg install libqrencode; man qrencode)

A QR code is not what is usually thought of as a "bar code" and I have
never seen one used to scan produce in a store.  Further, why would it
contain price information?  The seller may charge one price today and
a different price tomorrow.

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#214647 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-10-04 09:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<htthd2FtmmrU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214645
On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 19:26:31 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> On 3 Oct 2020 22:00:33 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 22:11:47 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 21:57:41 MET Jan van den Broek
>>> <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
>>>> 
>>>> [Schnipp]
>>>> 
>>>> >Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>>>> >disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain
>>>> >data like recommended prices (different from what is on the
>>>> >supermarket packet), and so on.
>>>> 
>>>> Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all
>>>> the data.
>>> 
>>> 	There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
>>> codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.
>>
>>For QR codes, actually up to 7000 digits or 4000 characters. Look at the
>>NHS QP code app, and how big those are. They are signed, too.
>>
>>(source: pkg install libqrencode; man qrencode)
> 
> A QR code is not what is usually thought of as a "bar code" and I have
> never seen one used to scan produce in a store.  Further, why would it
> contain price information?  The seller may charge one price today and a
> different price tomorrow.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. I was saying that the statement "even the 
square QR codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC" was not correct.





-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214648 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-10-04 12:22 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<20201004122247.6f1a1348cd78830037bb904e@eircom.net>
In reply to#214647
On 4 Oct 2020 09:02:26 GMT
Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:

> I wasn't disagreeing with that. I was saying that the statement "even the 
> square QR codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC" was not correct.

	I stand corrected, I've not seen the big ones.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214654 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-10-04 16:42 +0000
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<htuccgFtmmrU9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214648
On Sun, 04 Oct 2020 12:22:47 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2020 09:02:26 GMT Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> 
>> I wasn't disagreeing with that. I was saying that the statement "even
>> the square QR codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC" was not correct.
> 
> 	I stand corrected, I've not seen the big ones.

The latest example is of course the NHS Test and Trace 'check in' one.

I know someone who has produced one so that he can check in at 
Specsavers, Barnard Castle.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214660 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

Frommjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
Date2020-10-04 22:39 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<rldfdq$4s3$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>
In reply to#214654
In article <htuccgFtmmrU9@mid.individual.net>,
Bob Eager  <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:

>The latest example is of course the NHS Test and Trace 'check in' one.

>I know someone who has produced one so that he can check in at 
>Specsavers, Barnard Castle.

See also :-

https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html

and 

https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/uk-government-digitally-signed-my-penis.html
-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#214661 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-10-04 22:06 +0000
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<htuvadFtmmrU10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214660
On Sun, 04 Oct 2020 22:39:06 +0100, Mike wrote:

> In article <htuccgFtmmrU9@mid.individual.net>,
> Bob Eager  <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> 
>>The latest example is of course the NHS Test and Trace 'check in' one.
> 
>>I know someone who has produced one so that he can check in at
>>Specsavers, Barnard Castle.
> 
> See also :-
> 
> https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html
> 
> and
> 
> https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/uk-government-digitally-signed-my-penis.html

That's him. I do know him; he runs my ISP.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214646 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2020-10-04 08:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<httc0iF178hU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214643
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
> codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.

There's various sizes with different levels of redundant information, up 
to ~7Kb

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#214693 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

Fromthe "Swampster" <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
Date2020-10-06 12:13 +0000
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<5f7c5f52$0$289$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#214643
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

>On Sat, 03 Oct 2020 21:57:41 MET
>Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> 12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
>> 
>> [Schnipp]
>> 
>> >Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>> >disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
>> >like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
>> >packet), and so on.
>> 
>> Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
>> data.

>	There's not room for much data in a barcode, even the square QR
>codes only hold 64 bytes IIRC.

PDF417 at least 1024. Some fifteen years ago I had to deal with two device
(different manufacturers), both with a bug in the firmware that truncated
de scanned date after 1K.
-- 
                               Jan van den Broek
                               balglaas@xs4all.nl

              I've got a /dev/null, and I'm not afraid to use it.

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#214649 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

Frommjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
Date2020-10-04 14:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<rlciou$3op$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>
In reply to#214642
In article <jfi.5F78E5C5.42.fortytwo@xs4all.nl>,
Jan van den Broek  <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>12 Sep 2020 12:27:31 GMT
>maus <maus@dmaus.org> schrieb:
>
>[Schnipp]
>
>>Bar code readers are fascinating devices. I had one, but it has
>>disappeared somewhere while I was in hospital, bar codes contain data
>>like recommended prices (different from what is on the supermarket
>>packet), and so on.
>
>Most of the time, barcodes just contain just an identifier, not all the
>data.

Agreed for e.g. EAN-9/EAN-13 codes (your standard "product bar code") 
but some stores use an in-store generated barcode to overwrite those,
especially for reductions, so that the original code isn't seen at
checkout, but replaced with one that contains the original
EAN code (to id the product) AND the updated reduced price embedded.

Morrisons do this. This way, instead of checkouts having to key
in a price off a sticker, and it coming up as "Reduced Item" on
the receipt, it comes up with the correct product, plus "reduced item" 
and the price, all in one swipe.
-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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