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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #214221 > unrolled thread

LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all?

Started bygareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
First post2020-09-14 10:57 +0100
Last post2020-11-18 10:18 -0800
Articles 7 on this page of 107 — 27 participants

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  LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 10:57 +0100
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-14 12:10 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 14:09 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 14:23 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-14 16:36 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 18:44 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2020-09-15 14:14 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? "Massimo M." <massimo79m@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:50 -0700
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 18:44 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 00:07 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-21 07:08 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? "Massimo M." <massimo79m@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 02:59 -0700
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 00:06 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-21 08:36 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 13:15 +0100
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-21 12:30 +0000
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-26 16:25 +0100
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-26 18:01 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-26 18:12 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-26 22:14 -0300
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-26 14:27 -0400
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-26 20:20 +0100
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 15:54 -0400
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 08:14 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-14 14:25 -0500
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-26 12:05 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:52 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0100
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-14 14:04 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 19:23 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-14 19:57 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-14 22:07 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-15 10:47 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:28 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-14 22:16 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 22:57 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 05:59 +0100
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-14 22:28 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 15:47 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 04:30 +0000
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 09:26 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 09:28 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-15 10:55 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:34 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-09-15 09:03 -0500
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 06:16 -0700
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 15:52 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-15 15:53 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 17:34 +0100
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-15 17:54 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 20:25 +0100
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:31 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-15 22:13 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-16 10:10 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-15 08:41 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 12:28 +0100
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 08:15 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 08:29 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 09:46 -0400
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 17:16 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 18:02 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 18:47 -0400
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 12:56 -0700
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-21 22:45 +0200
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-21 21:05 +0000
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-22 10:24 +0200
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 17:19 -0700
                        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? f6k <f6k@huld.re> - 2020-09-22 10:23 +0200
                          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 15:02 -0700
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:51 +0000
                      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 15:21 -0400
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-15 20:32 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-15 23:22 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-15 21:14 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-16 08:04 +0100
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-16 17:42 +0000
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-16 20:25 +0000
                    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 18:28 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-18 20:40 +0000
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-09-15 13:52 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-09-16 06:00 -0400
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-26 14:24 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-26 11:07 -0400
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-26 17:49 +0100
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2020-09-26 17:47 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 08:07 +0000
        Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-27 07:47 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 07:50 -0400
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 10:05 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 12:32 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 13:05 -0400
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-27 10:38 -0700
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-27 15:56 -0400
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-28 08:53 +0000
                Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-29 08:21 +0200
                  Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-29 08:13 +0000
          Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-27 22:29 +0000
            Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-28 08:56 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-28 16:35 +0000
              Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-10-07 18:14 +0000
    Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Kelli Halliburton <kelli217@gmail.com> - 2020-10-09 14:07 -0700
      Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? Stewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com> - 2020-11-18 10:18 -0800

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#214614

FromNiklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se>
Date2020-09-29 08:13 +0000
Message-ID<htg8leF8rn7U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214613
On 2020-09-29, Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>
>> PuTTY, which I use daily, is of course an aberration. It attempts to
>> emulate the classic X behaviour, putting the stroked text into the
>> buffer immediately and then pasting with the right button (would be
>> middle on a proper *nix machine, I suppose).
>
> You can switch to the xterm behavior: look into the config menu under
> Window->Selection
>
> Also one of the things I have to update when setting up a new Putty.

Thanks, good to know. However, I'm so accustomed to the default
behaviour by now that I'll probably stick with it. :)

Niklas
-- 
* Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved from
  smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of
  smart terminals.  -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk (obscurity)

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#214607

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-09-27 22:29 +0000
Message-ID<9n8cH.368589$RF4.30162@fx43.iad>
In reply to#214595
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>On 2020-09-26, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>> I log in in text mode, run 'startx' and get a simple window manager
>> with some menus and four virtual screens, plus the classic xclock(1)
>> and xload(1) in a corner.  I don't see what value a desktop
>> environment would add.
>
>I've not run X in forever (barring the rare server-side app I project on
>a local X server, but that is rare indeed), but what I found most
>galling was that there were at least three ways copy/paste would work,
>depending on what toolkit the app was written using.

Really?  I've not encountered that.   Select with the mouse and
paste with the middle button has worked with every Unix and
Linux gui and application that I've used.

It does sometimes get weird when VNC gets involved.

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#214609

FromNiklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se>
Date2020-09-28 08:56 +0000
Message-ID<htdmqdFms02U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214607
On 2020-09-27, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>>I've not run X in forever (barring the rare server-side app I project on
>>a local X server, but that is rare indeed), but what I found most
>>galling was that there were at least three ways copy/paste would work,
>>depending on what toolkit the app was written using.
>
> Really?  I've not encountered that.   Select with the mouse and
> paste with the middle button has worked with every Unix and
> Linux gui and application that I've used.

Perhaps I came in at a rather awkward time. It would have been around 20
years ago, when GNOME and KDE were competing.

Niklas
-- 
Okay... so your machines are pipes... Does that mean you label the
tapes/floppies/cdroms in it things like "hash", "maryjane" and
"terbacca"?
                       -- Thorfinn

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#214610

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-09-28 16:35 +0000
Message-ID<nhocH.238190$r25.134473@fx08.iad>
In reply to#214609
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>On 2020-09-27, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>>>I've not run X in forever (barring the rare server-side app I project on
>>>a local X server, but that is rare indeed), but what I found most
>>>galling was that there were at least three ways copy/paste would work,
>>>depending on what toolkit the app was written using.
>>
>> Really?  I've not encountered that.   Select with the mouse and
>> paste with the middle button has worked with every Unix and
>> Linux gui and application that I've used.
>
>Perhaps I came in at a rather awkward time. It would have been around 20
>years ago, when GNOME and KDE were competing.
>

There are some oddities in X11 with respect to single click/double click
depending on the Xresources associated with the application (e.g. xterm).

Xterm by default is configured so that a double click will select the
'word' under the mouse cursor, while the third click will extend the
selection to the entire line and four will extend to the entire paragraph,
while five will select the contents of the window.

What constitutes a "word" in this context is dependent up on the xterm
resource VT100.charClass:

From .Xresources  (loaded with xrdb(1)):

! for urls
!*charClass: 33:48,35:48,37-38:48,43-47:48,58:48,61:48,63-64:48,95:48,126:48
! for filenames
*VT100*charClass: 33:48,37:48,45-47:48,38:48

If the URL charclass is uncommented, a double click will
highlight the word including all URL punctuation characters,
where as the filename class will include such things as the
path separation characters, but not glob characters (*, ?)
or colon.

GTK defaults for Gnome Terminal will be different from xterm.

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#214699

FromJorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
Date2020-10-07 18:14 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrns1bd.1hpq.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>
In reply to#214609
On Mon, 2020-09-28, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-09-27, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>>>I've not run X in forever (barring the rare server-side app I project on
>>>a local X server, but that is rare indeed), but what I found most
>>>galling was that there were at least three ways copy/paste would work,
>>>depending on what toolkit the app was written using.
>>
>> Really?  I've not encountered that.   Select with the mouse and
>> paste with the middle button has worked with every Unix and
>> Linux gui and application that I've used.
>
> Perhaps I came in at a rather awkward time. It would have been around 20
> years ago, when GNOME and KDE were competing.

No; it's still like that.  Combine:

- xterm and friends (original Athena applications)
- the Gtk build of Emacs (maybe I've misconfigured cut/paste
  for this one)
- Firefox
- VirtualBox, when I run Linux in such a VM

and the mechanisms:
- copy by selecting with the mouse
- copy with Ctrl-C
- cut with e.g. Ctrl-K in Emacs
- paste with middle button
- paste with Ctrl-V
- paste with Shift-Insert

I can't always predict what works, and it's obvious that there are at
least two clipboard buffers, and for some reason people can't agree on
which one to use.  It's been like that since at least Motif in the
early 1990s.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#214723

FromKelli Halliburton <kelli217@gmail.com>
Date2020-10-09 14:07 -0700
Message-ID<b6fc25d6-89e6-4196-8a82-090717351de7n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#214221
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 4:57:16 AM UTC-5, gareth evans wrote:
> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus 
> was in complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS 
> that runs only the programs that I wish, and that does not 
> have shedloads of daemons and background processes that I did not 
> launch. 
> 
> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package 
> and bugger-all else?

On what hardware?

There are plenty of small-footprint solutions out there, but they exist because the platform on which they run have extremely limited resources. For example, one can browse the web with TheWave running on GEOS/Wheels for the Commodore 64, assuming you have the 65816 CPU necessary to run Wheels, and one of the various internet interfaces that are compatible. And with a printer interface adapter, you can also print to a relatively recent PCL or PostScript printer with the same software setup.

For a brief period of time, there was an OS called Contiki with a total footprint of 10KB of RAM and 30KB of ROM, that could run a windowing system in a total of 40KB of RAM, that was being ported to all kinds of constrained systems, including old micros, but the project seems to have been refocused on embedded hardware.

On the popular Raspberry Pi, there's RiscOS; which dates back to the earliest days of ARM in the Acorn Archimedes, and still is very compact.

If you have a craving to buy expensive and poorly-supported hardware, there are versions of AmigaOS that run on PowerPC systems, specifically a few slightly-tweaked development boards and a couple of full custom designs, and while that OS has increased in size a bit over the years, it's still quite small. There's even a recent version of the OS for the old Motorola 68k based systems.

On the x86-64 platform, there's such semi-orphaned but still-maintained projects as OpenSTEP or Haiku, both of which still fall victim to some of the issues you raise, but to far less an extent than the latest versions of 'mainstream' operating systems such as Windows, macOS, or Linux.

All that being said, though... there's nothing like rolling your own. There are more than a few projects out there where people are building their own computers and writing the OS from scratch. You like the PDP-11? The Motorola 68k series uses virtually the same mnemonics for its instruction set. (Sure, it's not the same as an LSI-11, but there are far more 68k chips on the salvage market.) Why not go find a project where someone has built a 68k-based micro, build one like it, and write software for it to whatever level of sophistication or crudity suits you?

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#215360

FromStewart Russell <scruss@gmail.com>
Date2020-11-18 10:18 -0800
Message-ID<327893be-94bd-4807-b4a8-241dbdb1aa9bn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#214723
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 5:07:45 p.m. UTC-4, Kelli Halliburton wrote:
> 
> On the popular Raspberry Pi, there's RiscOS; which dates back to the earliest days of ARM in the Acorn Archimedes, and still is very compact. 

RISC OS Pico is incredibly small, and runs (IIRC) on several ARM SBCs.

* Cooperative multitasking: you get to say what runs, where.
* Manual memory allocation
* Mostly written in ARM assembly language
* Boots straight to a shell
* Open source (for some definition of that term)

You might not like the forked filesystem and the max 2 GB filesystem size, but they're how RISC OS do.

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