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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #212313 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-07-24 09:38 -0700 |
| Last post | 2020-07-30 20:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 164 — 35 participants |
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DEC Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 09:38 -0700
Re: DEC Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-07-24 17:12 -0300
Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 17:14 -0400
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 19:43 -0700
Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 23:28 -0400
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:06 -0700
Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 05:27 -0400
Re: DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 10:58 +0100
Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 17:21 +0000
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 13:54 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 14:43 -0700
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:05 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 20:27 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 21:08 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:29 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:30 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 00:06 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-05 06:06 +0000
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 10:19 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-07 20:01 +0000
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-07 22:45 +0000
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 13:35 -0400
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 15:33 +0000
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 13:16 -0400
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 15:00 -0400
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:35 -0400
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-08-10 23:10 +0000
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 19:18 +0000
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:40 -0400
Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-09 15:30 -0700
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:43 -0700
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:32 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 21:45 +0000
Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 18:01 -0400
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 06:38 +0100
Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 01:24 +0000
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-26 20:18 +0000
Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 19:39 +0100
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 12:50 -0700
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:26 -0700
Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-26 19:23 +0000
Re: DEC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-26 21:05 +0000
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 16:23 -0700
Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 21:24 -0400
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 02:41 +0000
Re: DEC archaeology Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-27 07:37 +0100
Re: DEC archaeology Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 07:10 +0000
Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 09:03 +0100
Re: DEC archaeology Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2020-07-27 02:09 -0700
Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 11:27 +0100
Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 12:22 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-27 20:51 -0400
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 06:02 +0100
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 08:29 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 18:18 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 19:57 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 21:32 +0100
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 21:34 +0000
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:33 -0400
Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 20:55 +0100
Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 14:53 +0000
Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-27 11:30 -0500
Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-27 16:37 +0000
Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-28 10:24 -0500
Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-28 15:59 +0000
Re: DEC archaeology Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
Re: DEC archaeology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-27 18:47 -0400
Re: DEC archaeology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-27 17:43 -0700
Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-28 03:21 +0000
Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-28 20:27 +0000
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:53 -0400
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 10:36 +0100
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2020-08-02 12:55 +0200
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 12:49 -0400
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:08 -0700
Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:04 -0700
Re: DEC Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2020-07-30 03:49 -0600
Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 14:41 +0000
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 10:12 -0700
Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 18:40 +0000
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 12:02 -0700
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-07-31 02:38 -0700
Re: DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-31 20:21 +0000
Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-31 23:23 +0000
Re: DEC large computers J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 21:13 -0400
Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-01 10:39 +0000
Re: vectors, was DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 02:21 +0000
Re: vectors, was DEC large computers Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 11:14 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-07-31 20:30 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 00:00 -0400
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:20 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 07:00 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 08:18 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 11:52 -0400
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-02 21:58 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 18:50 -0400
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 13:34 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:55 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:27 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 17:27 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 12:11 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 19:56 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 20:18 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 23:42 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:32 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-02 12:58 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 16:28 -0400
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2020-08-02 20:42 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:27 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-02 00:28 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-02 08:01 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:47 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 19:45 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-08-03 21:00 -0600
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-02 22:45 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-01 08:24 +0000
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:30 -0700
Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:34 -0700
Re: DEC large computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:51 -0700
Re: DEC large computers robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:23 -0700
Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-31 21:16 -0400
Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2020-08-01 01:56 +0000
Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2020-08-01 15:59 +0100
Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:09 -0400
Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:07 -0400
Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-02 23:54 -0700
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-03 09:16 -0700
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 10:10 -0700
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 10:35 -0700
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:28 -0700
Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 21:26 +0000
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:38 -0700
Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-03 21:44 -0400
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 23:55 -0700
Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:05 -0400
Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:59 -0400
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 06:29 -0700
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-04 07:48 -0700
Re: DEC Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-05 04:13 +0000
Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-04 22:45 -0700
Re: DEC JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 12:33 -0500
Re: DEC "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-05 19:31 +0000
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 22:57 -0700
Re: DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-05 08:13 +0000
Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-05 10:58 -0700
Re: DEC drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-05 13:28 -0500
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-06 16:21 -0700
Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:31 -0700
Re: DEC danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-08-03 18:38 +0000
Re: DEC "m. thompson" <michael.99.thompson@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 05:38 -0700
Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-04 18:54 +0000
Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-30 13:29 -0700
Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-30 20:27 +0000
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-25 12:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b5428026-03a6-4147-acce-dc86c86e00cfo@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #212341 |
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 3:27:10 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 02:06:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: > >Of course, that failure is understandable. Since DEC could still sell PDP-11s at > >high prices to some customers, they didn't want to compete with themselves and > >spoil that. IBM did the same thing, which is why the IBM PC isn't built on the > >z/Architecture. > I think the z/Architecture not existing at the time had a good deal > more to do with it. Details! All right, "which is why the original IBM PC in 1981 wasn't based on the System/370 architecture, and today's 64-bit descendants aren't based on z/Architecture." There, happy now? John Savard
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-25 02:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <77014482-7b77-4bca-8623-b0d6722fa357o@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #212313 |
On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 10:38:42 AM UTC-6, Iron Spring Software wrote: > I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a > large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic > leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. Well, the operating systems and other software for those machines were protected by copyright. So at one end, people using the VAX would have gone to other machines when they outgrew the ones they had; people using the PDP-8 would have moved to using 8-bit microprocessors, or, later, the IBM PC. So there were add-in A/D converter boards for the IBM PC in the early days. John Savard
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-26 19:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5f1dd814.1088935@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #212313 |
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote: >I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a >large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic >leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought by HP. What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after DEC ceased to exist as an independent company? DEC holds an important place in the history of the computer business and also the ARPAnet. Hobbyists and DEC enthusiasts have recovered much of the software and made it available via emulators. Museums have restored some of the hardware. Whether your point of view is that the market didn't want what DEC was offering, or that DEC didn't sell what the market wanted, the consequence was the same. The natural result of that lack of alignment is that there is little to no DEC presence in the commercial arena today. Obviously had things been different, DEC would have continued longer as a viable business and we would see more signs of it in the corporate world today. I can name dozens of now-defunct companies, prominent in their time and business sector, of which there are even fewer traces remaining today.
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-26 21:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rfkr6m$9el$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #212381 |
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> schrieb: > On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> > wrote: >>I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a >>large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic >>leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. > > Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought > by HP. Some part of the business was sold to Intel. > What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after > DEC ceased to exist as an independent company? The Intel Fortran compiler (ifort) is a direct descendant of the DEC Fortran compiler. Steve Lionel, one of the main engineers of the compiler, who already worked on it at DEC, retired from Intel a couple of years ago, but is still very active on the Fortran standards committees.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-26 16:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1411296828.617497929.421726.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #212381 |
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> > wrote: >> I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a >> large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic >> leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. > > Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought > by HP. > > What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after > DEC ceased to exist as an independent company? Many computer companies of the era still have current models, at least in name. Besides IBM z there are systems from Unisys, both former Burroughs and former Sperry. I would have expected HP to still be marketing something called a VAX, with somewhat familiar software. I think DEC was bigger than both Compaq and HP, so it was a case of the mouse eating the elephant. > > DEC holds an important place in the history of the computer business and also > the ARPAnet. > > Hobbyists and DEC enthusiasts have recovered much of the software and made it > available via emulators. Museums have restored some of the hardware. > > Whether your point of view is that the market didn't want what DEC was offering, > or that DEC didn't sell what the market wanted, the consequence was the same. > The natural result of that lack of alignment is that there is little to no DEC > presence in the commercial arena today. Obviously had things been different, > DEC would have continued longer as a viable business and we would see more signs > of it in the corporate world today. Ask Barb about Palmer. There does seem to have been haste to break up the business and sell it for parts, none of which are still around in recognizable form. It’s like companies bought by private equity, who have no interest at all in the company, or its products or intellectual capital, but only in, for example, in the value of the real estate it owns. > > I can name dozens of now-defunct companies, prominent in their time and business > sector, of which there are even fewer traces remaining today. > > -- Pete
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-26 21:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ibashfd198cicjbe6q2kja0uhuonbvaaoe@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212390 |
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:23:41 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> >> wrote: >>> I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a >>> large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic >>> leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. >> >> Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought >> by HP. >> >> What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after >> DEC ceased to exist as an independent company? > >Many computer companies of the era still have current models, at least in >name. Besides IBM z there are systems from Unisys, both former Burroughs >and former Sperry. I would have expected HP to still be marketing something >called a VAX, with somewhat familiar software. I think DEC was bigger than >both Compaq and HP, so it was a case of the mouse eating the elephant. Looking at the SEC filings, in DEC 1996 Compaq's shareholder equity was a little over 6 billion and current assets were 9 billion. In JUN 1997 DEC's shareholder equity was about 3.5 billion and current assets about 9.6 billion. In OCT 2001 HP had assets of 32.5 billion and shareholder equity of about 14 billion. Compaq had shareholder equity of 11 billion and current assets of about 13.2 billion. For this sort of information, by the way, the keyword you want is "10K" as in "Compaq 10K 2001". That gets mandatory SEC filings. >> DEC holds an important place in the history of the computer business and also >> the ARPAnet. >> >> Hobbyists and DEC enthusiasts have recovered much of the software and made it >> available via emulators. Museums have restored some of the hardware. >> >> Whether your point of view is that the market didn't want what DEC was offering, >> or that DEC didn't sell what the market wanted, the consequence was the same. >> The natural result of that lack of alignment is that there is little to no DEC >> presence in the commercial arena today. Obviously had things been different, >> DEC would have continued longer as a viable business and we would see more signs >> of it in the corporate world today. > >Ask Barb about Palmer. There does seem to have been haste to break up the >business and sell it for parts, none of which are still around in >recognizable form. It’s like companies bought by private equity, who have >no interest at all in the company, or its products or intellectual capital, >but only in, for example, in the value of the real estate it owns. > >> >> I can name dozens of now-defunct companies, prominent in their time and business >> sector, of which there are even fewer traces remaining today. >> >>
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <941046521.617568006.802670.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #212391 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:23:41 -0700, Peter Flass > <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>>> I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a >>>> large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic >>>> leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued. >>> >>> Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought >>> by HP. >>> >>> What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after >>> DEC ceased to exist as an independent company? >> >> Many computer companies of the era still have current models, at least in >> name. Besides IBM z there are systems from Unisys, both former Burroughs >> and former Sperry. I would have expected HP to still be marketing something >> called a VAX, with somewhat familiar software. I think DEC was bigger than >> both Compaq and HP, so it was a case of the mouse eating the elephant. > > Looking at the SEC filings, in DEC 1996 Compaq's shareholder equity > was a little over 6 billion and current assets were 9 billion. In JUN > 1997 DEC's shareholder equity was about 3.5 billion and current assets > about 9.6 billion. > > In OCT 2001 HP had assets of 32.5 billion and shareholder equity of > about 14 billion. Compaq had shareholder equity of 11 billion and > current assets of about 13.2 billion. As Carly found out, Compaq was way overvalued. -- Pete
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 02:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <rflet7$31t$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #212390 |
In article <1411296828.617497929.421726.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >Many computer companies of the era still have current models, at least in >name. Besides IBM z there are systems from Unisys, both former Burroughs >and former Sperry. I would have expected HP to still be marketing something >called a VAX, with somewhat familiar software. ... The VAX is long dead. Remember that DEC tried to migrate everyone to their Alpha RISC chip. But VMS lives on, supported by this company: https://vmssoftware.com/ They've open sourced VMS so you can download it from Sourceforge. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 07:37 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <ho7b26FsuluU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #212392 |
John Levine wrote: > VMS lives on, supported by this company: > https://vmssoftware.com/ Correct on alpha, itanium and soon x86_64 > They've open sourced VMS so you can download it from Sourceforge. Errrr, shall we just say "less correct"?
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 07:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <rflukh$42q$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #212395 |
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> schrieb: > John Levine wrote: > >> VMS lives on, supported by this company: >> https://vmssoftware.com/ > > Correct on alpha, itanium and soon x86_64 > >> They've open sourced VMS so you can download it from Sourceforge. > > Errrr, shall we just say "less correct"? The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out not to be the case."
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 09:03 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <20200727090340.9e5a7138776a599a36c905cb@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #212396 |
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:10:09 -0000 (UTC) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out > not to be the case." I often wondered whether it was Niven or Pournelle that came up with that gem or did they pick it up somewhere. I wonder similarly about "Think of it as evolution in action". -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 02:09 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <2020072702092568454-mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> |
| In reply to | #212398 |
On 2020-07-27 08:03:40 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot said: > On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:10:09 -0000 (UTC) > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >> The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out >> not to be the case." > > I often wondered whether it was Niven or Pournelle that came up > with that gem or did they pick it up somewhere. I wonder similarly about > "Think of it as evolution in action". I saw it ised in their co authored book "The Mote in Gods Eye" -- Michael LeVine mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies. Groucho Marx
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 11:27 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: DEC archaeology |
| Message-ID | <20200727112753.8ecd14aa4e7ca13ea2501786@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #212401 |
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 02:09:25 -0700 Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> wrote: > On 2020-07-27 08:03:40 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot said: > > > On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:10:09 -0000 (UTC) > > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > > > >> The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out > >> not to be the case." > > > > I often wondered whether it was Niven or Pournelle that came up > > with that gem or did they pick it up somewhere. I wonder similarly about > > "Think of it as evolution in action". > > I saw it ised in their co authored book "The Mote in Gods Eye" That as far as I'm aware was the first appearance of the phrase, it seems more Pournelle than Niven in character to me BICBW and it might not be original with them. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 12:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <rfmgtj$h6b$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #212398 |
[x-post to.rec.arts.sf.written, follow-up there] Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb: > On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:10:09 -0000 (UTC) > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >> The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out >> not to be the case." > > I often wondered whether it was Niven or Pournelle that came up > with that gem or did they pick it up somewhere. Doesn't really sound like something Niven would write, but I may be wrong there. > I wonder similarly about > "Think of it as evolution in action". That sounds like Pournelle, definitely. The earliest time I remember this is from "Oath of Fealty", 1981. "Yet Another Modest Proposal" also has it, but in a context where it could also be a quote by Pournelle.
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-27 20:51 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <mddlfj4wjg9.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #212408 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> [x-post to.rec.arts.sf.written, follow-up there]
>
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
> > On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:10:09 -0000 (UTC)
> > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> >
> >> The canonical way to say somethign like that is "That turns out
> >> not to be the case."
> >
> > I often wondered whether it was Niven or Pournelle that came up
> > with that gem or did they pick it up somewhere.
>
> Doesn't really sound like something Niven would write, but I may
> be wrong there.
>
> > I wonder similarly about
> > "Think of it as evolution in action".
>
> That sounds like Pournelle, definitely.
>
> The earliest time I remember this is from "Oath of Fealty", 1981.
> "Yet Another Modest Proposal" also has it, but in a context where
> it could also be a quote by Pournelle.
Pournelle got it from Robert Heinlein, with whom he interned.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-28 06:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <20200728060212.fe8c062cf4d3841de242a931@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #212429 |
On 27 Jul 2020 20:51:18 -0400 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > Pournelle got it from Robert Heinlein, with whom he interned. Where did Heinlein use it ? -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-28 08:29 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <hoa5v0FmsnaU12@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #212433 |
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 06:02:12 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On 27 Jul 2020 20:51:18 -0400 Rich Alderson > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > >> Pournelle got it from Robert Heinlein, with whom he interned. > > Where did Heinlein use it ? Probably in Time Enough For Love. It's full of stuff like that! -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <rfpnch12cmj@news1.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #212434 |
On 2020-07-28, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 06:02:12 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> On 27 Jul 2020 20:51:18 -0400 Rich Alderson >> <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: >> >>> Pournelle got it from Robert Heinlein, with whom he interned. >> >> Where did Heinlein use it ? > > Probably in Time Enough For Love. It's full of stuff like that! True, although I don't remember those exact words there, and I've read the book a number of times. On the other hand, I'm sure I saw a wonderful description of venereal diseases that Heinlein came up with, but I can't remember where. He described them as extremely fragile - so much so that they can only be transmitted by intimate personal contact, being unable to survive outside the body for any length of time. (Toilet seats excepted, I presume.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult. X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy. / \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-28 18:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <qE6yu9.2Lv@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #212441 |
In article <rfpnch12cmj@news1.newsguy.com>, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >On 2020-07-28, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote: > >> On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 06:02:12 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> >>> On 27 Jul 2020 20:51:18 -0400 Rich Alderson >>> <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Pournelle got it from Robert Heinlein, with whom he interned. >>> >>> Where did Heinlein use it ? >> >> Probably in Time Enough For Love. It's full of stuff like that! > >True, although I don't remember those exact words there, and I've >read the book a number of times. > >On the other hand, I'm sure I saw a wonderful description of >venereal diseases that Heinlein came up with, but I can't remember >where. He described them as extremely fragile - so much so that >they can only be transmitted by intimate personal contact, being >unable to survive outside the body for any length of time. >(Toilet seats excepted, I presume.) Yes, I remember that one too, but not where I read it. (Could be something from _Grumbles from the Grave_.) ISTR the wording was on the order of "whose infective agent is so fragile that it can be transmitted only by the most intimate of contact." -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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| From | Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-28 19:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) |
| Message-ID | <hobea0FmsnaU16@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #212443 |
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 18:18:09 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > Yes, I remember that one too, but not where I read it. (Could be > something from _Grumbles from the Grave_.) ISTR the wording was on the > order of "whose infective agent is so fragile that it can be transmitted > only by the most intimate of contact." I would recommend Roald Dahl's short story "The Visitor". This is all paraphrased. Essentially, it's about a guy who breaks down in the desert (or is sabotaged). He is offered a bed for the night by Aziz, who has a beautiful wife and also a beautiful daughter. I don't have it right here, but the important thing is that *a* woman creeps into his bedroom and they have a passionate night - which Aziz is obviously realising is on the cards. Next morning, the narrator is still trying to work out if it was the mother or the daughter. As he is leaving, he learns that there is another daughter in the house too - he hasn't seen her because she stays in her room due to incurable leprosy. Aziz reassures him: "Don't worry, old chap. Leprosy can only be caught by the most intimate of contact". -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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