Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #164853 > unrolled thread

So, what was your computer birthplace?

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers

Contents

  So, what was your computer birthplace? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-09 17:58 +0100
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 13:36 -0500
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-09 12:02 -0700
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? mentificium@gmail.com - 2016-06-09 12:27 -0700
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-09 20:15 +0000
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2016-06-09 14:53 -0700
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Mike Causer <m.r.causer@goglemail.com> - 2016-06-11 20:32 +0100
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2016-06-10 00:24 +0000
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-10 02:38 +0000
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-06-10 03:59 -0300
          Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-10 06:58 -0400
            Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-10 11:22 +0000
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-10 09:52 +0100
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-10 11:49 +0100
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-10 11:23 +0000
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-10 12:45 +0100
          Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-10 12:57 +0100
            Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-10 13:57 +0100
              Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-10 14:35 +0000
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-10 13:30 +0200
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-06-10 12:10 -0400
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-06-10 17:09 +0000
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-06-10 19:25 +0200
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-10 22:28 -0400
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-11 10:48 +0000
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-11 13:01 -0700
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-11 17:39 -0400
          Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-13 14:25 -0700
            Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-13 17:47 -0400
              Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-13 18:37 -0400
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-11 13:12 -0700
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-11 18:07 -0400
          Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-13 14:36 -0700
            Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-13 18:28 -0700
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-11 15:48 -0700
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-11 22:45 +0100
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-11 13:15 -0700
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-11 14:22 -0700
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-11 22:17 +0000
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-11 15:48 -0700
          Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-12 09:18 +0000
            Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 07:01 -0400
              Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-12 11:09 +0000
                Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 07:24 -0400
                  Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-12 12:37 +0100
                    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-12 11:46 +0000
                  Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-12 11:44 +0000
                  Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-12 15:55 +0100
                    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-12 15:15 +0000
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? mick <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-12 14:29 +0000
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-12 15:35 +0100
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-12 15:51 +0100
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Renaissance <unknown@unknown.invalid> - 2016-06-13 09:59 +0200
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Renaissance <unknown@unknown.invalid> - 2016-06-13 10:06 +0200
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Renaissance <unknown@unknown.invalid> - 2016-06-17 16:11 +0200
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-06-13 17:27 -0500
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-16 19:27 -0400
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-17 12:41 +0000
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-17 16:55 -0400
      Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-17 14:16 +0100
        Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-06-17 08:22 -0500
    Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? Jim Rymarczyk - 2016-06-17 08:35 -0500

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →

#164853 — So, what was your computer birthplace?

Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.

The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
ideas.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#164857

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
>ideas.

My first computer use was in 1976-77 using a dumb terminal, keyboard
and thermal printer with 300 baud acoustic modem, to connect to a
computer on a 4-year campus with us sitting at a community college
campus. The school and the government each paid for part of it. CPU
time mostly. We used it for things like the area under a line,
Simpson's Rule. Next was a Sinclair ZX-81 with the 16KB ram pack about
1983. Then an Amiga A1000 in 1984. Used Apple ][+s at the same
community college in 1985 running Apple BASIC. Apple Fortran v1.0 ran
from a Corvus hard drive networked to most of the Apple computers.

Then I transferred to 4-year university and they had a DEC VAX 11/730
with VT102 terminals. Ran VAX PASCAL on it. One class got to run ADA
on it. Slowed the computer waaaay down during compile time.

-- 
JimP.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164858

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 17:58:24 UTC+1, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339  wrote:
> . . . I feel uneasy with any computer system 
> where I am not in complete control, or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API . . .

While I was on my third computer, a colleague took home 
some assembly program listings for his Dad, who had asked 
him "What's all this computer stuff, then?".  He tried 
to explain the op code mnemonics, and the symbolic or 
indirect operand addressing, but his Dad was quite lost. 
A while later, he took home a hexadecimal program dump 
to continue working on it, and his Dad asked "What's all 
this, then?"  Not expecting any more insight, he pointed 
out the main store addresses marching in sequence down 
the left column, then that (for example) this byte here 
'D5', that's the 'MVC' (move characters) instruction, 
and the next bit '18' says how many characters to move, 
then '3806' says to start moving the characters from 
806 beyond the address in register 3, and so on . . . 
His Dad said "Oh, I can see that all right; it's a lot 
simpler than that other rubbish you showed me last time."
-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164859

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:58:24 AM UTC-7, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:
> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969 [...]

The BRAINIAC computer was my Christmas present at age twelve. 
It was a console with dials and wires that could show a result 
but there was no logic circuitry for true computation. 

At age nineteen I started my independent-scholar project in 
artificial intelligence by purchasing several dozen electromechanical 
relays with which I performed experiments in artificial life 
and neural networks. 

At age thirty-seven I purchased a Coleco ADAM Z-80 computer 
with which I learned to program in Beginner's All-purpose 
Symbolic Instruction Code (BASIC) by Kemeny and Kurtz of 
Dartmouth. 

At age forty-one I paid for an Amiga 1000 on which I learned 
REXX from International Business Machines, renamed as ARexx. 
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mindrexx.html was my first AI Mind. 

Then on the Amiga I learned Forth and the AI program 
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Mind.Forth was my next AI. 

An outfit called Free-PC.com shipped to me a free computer 
and monitor running Windows 98, so my next AI Mind was 
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Mind in MSIE JavaScript. 
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Dushka was AI in Russian. 

In 2009 I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook on which I code 
http://wiki.opencog.org/wikihome/index.php/Ghost in Perl as 
http://www.sourcecodeonline.com/details/ghost_perl_webserver_strong_ai.html 
so as to launch the Technological Singularity with free open-source AI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-99kMuWlXk&t=53m30s is an AI Workshop. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164861

On 09 Jun 2016 in alt.folklore.computers, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,

1974, freshman chemistry major.  We were introduced to computers in math 
class by way of using FORTRAN (actually WATFIV) using punch cards read 
into a 360-50 or maybe a 360-67.

-- 
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164864

1967 at Long Beach City College, using an IBM 1620 II-D -- with the
disk! Was convinced early on that FORTRAN (II-D, you still had to count
all the characters in FORMAT text strings) wasn't as good as writing in
assembly, so that's what I did.

When I started at Uni, the week before classes started, I wandered by
the computer facility (in a series of trailers at the time). Watched as
some folks were putting together a shiny new SDS Sigma-7. Reacted with
laughter and disbelief when one of them told me the cables connecting
the thing together had never been tested on a live machine. Had lunch
with the CEs and SEs responsible for assembling this wonderful puzzle.
Head per track disks! Walking back after lunch, we stopped at the
office of the computer facility director and one of the CEs told him,
"hire this kid, he know which end is up." So the week before school
started, I had a job working for the Sigma-7 side of the computer
facility. On the other side of the room was a much different machine, a
PDP-10.

I did operations/systems work on the Sigma 7. It was also the
timesharing machine, supporting terminals (remember Datapoint? ASR
33s?) all over campus. After the initial timesharing BASIC intro class,
almost all the computer science classes were taught on the PDP-10.

Graduated in computer science and went to work for SDS, just up the
road in scenic El Segundo (701 South Aviation Blvd). Worked on UTS,
CP-V, CP-V real time and multiprocessing. SDS was bought by Xerox and
augered into the ground, something Xerox did to any number of
companies.

A few years later I found myself with one of my SDS colleagues (Dick
Hustvedt, one of the most talented people I've ever met or worked with)
at DEC working on the VAX 11/780.

Came back to the Left Coast to work with microprocessors, and avoid New
England winters.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164921

On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:53:40 -0700
artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:

> 1967 at Long Beach City College, using an IBM 1620 II-D -- with the
> disk! 

With disk?  Our 1620 at Wolverhampton Polytechnic didn't have disk!  That
was 1971 and we Mechanical Engineers did not have any computing in the
syllabus, but there was no examination in mathematics in the final year
(we already had all we needed) and the maths lecturer needed a way to
get some sort of attendance at his class.  So he taught us Fortran II
which we could run on the 1620.  He had the best attendance of any class
that year.  

I held the record for the program that ran for longest on the 1620 and
produced only garbage as a result.  It was an attempt on optimising
selection for the football pools (it's a form of betting on soccer game
results) but we'd only had sufficient lecture time to show us the
language not how to think algorithmically.

Two years later I was using a CDC 6600 in my job as a design draughtsman 
and two years after that was working full-time at the Computer Aided 
Design Centre in Cambridge -- a software development spin-off from the 
University.


Mike

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164867

On 2016-06-09, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.

I would have been three or four years old (1968 or '69) when my mom used
to take me to work (a navy subcontractor of some kind in the DC area) on
occasion. I'd walk down the hall and find myself in a door way (she says
it was a window) looking at this BIIIIIIG machine.  It was talllll and
went out of sight in both directions.  I swear, I imprinted on that IBM
7090 like a baby bird.  I had a pretty good idea what I was going to do
for a living from a young age.

The first machine I programmed in any way was a Digicomp 1 in 1973.  I
never really understood it.  The first machine I understood at all was
some kind of IBM box I never saw, interacting with it using an actual
Teletype and acoustic coupler from Byron Junior High to the Shaker
Heights High School (Cleveland area) during the 1976-1977 school year. 
I programmed it in BASIC IIRC.


> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
> ideas.

I hear that.  Too much abstraction can be an issue, getting in the way
of understanding what's actually happening.  What I'm starting to
understand is that such a deep understanding is no longer always
necessary.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164870

On 2016-06-10, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> On 2016-06-09, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
>> ideas.

I take it you're not comfortable with Windows or Macs, then.

> I hear that.  Too much abstraction can be an issue, getting in the way
> of understanding what's actually happening.  What I'm starting to
> understand is that such a deep understanding is no longer always
> necessary.

Perhaps, but people are going overboard sometimes.  An extreme case is
Air France flight 447, which crashed in the Atlantic after instrument
malfunctions created a situation that might have been survivable had
the crew's understanding of the basics of flight not atrophied.

But anyway, back to the topic...

My first step into data processing occurred in 1965, when at the tender
age of 15, on a visit to an uncle's, I saw a large binder on a bookshelf
labeled UNIVAC.  (I still have it.)  I took it down and started reading
about how to wire a plugboard for the 1004 card processor, one of which
was at the company where uncle worked as an accountant.  A couple of
months later he took me in to the office and I got my hands on the
equipment and even wired up a board with a small program of my own.
(Extra trivia: the system used 90-column cards.)

I took computer science at the University of B.C. from 1968 to 1971,
and ran programs on their 7044 and 360/67.  Between my second and third
years (summer 1970), the Univac contacts I made during my 1004 experience
enabled me to find a summer job at a small service bureau that had a 9300.
I was already becoming disenchanted with the highly theoretical approach
that the CS classes were taking, and suspected that my third year was
going to be my last.  I arranged my course schedule so I had Thursdays
off, and continued working part-time at the service bureau.  As I
expected, my third year was pretty much a write-off (although access
to the computers was fun), and at the end of the year I dropped out
and went to work for the service bureau full-time.

When I started at the service bureau they had with a pure card system
with 16K of memory, although we soon added a pair of 8411s (clones of
the IBM 2311), which we later upgraded to a pair of 8414s (equivalent
to two 2314 spindles) and increased memory to a whopping 32K.
(It took us a while to figure out what to do with all that space.)
We wrote in RPG if it would do the job, assembly language otherwise.

My first assignment was to take two programs - a summary written in
assembly language and a detail listing written in RPG - and combine
them (translating the RPG code into assembly language) so that they
could get both listings with one pass through the cards.  It was a
good introduction for a newbie programmer just learning RPG - it
wasn't vital to the company, but once I got it going, it saved
machine time, which was in short supply.

I was a big fan of assembly language from the time I first wrapped
my head around it.  This was one more reason I didn't get along in
the computer science world - they were into the latest and greatest
high-level languages and considered assembly language beneath them.
(I wrote term projects in assembly language partly out of spite.)
One course introduced a new language every two weeks: LISP, UMIST,
SNOBOL4, pl360, and of course several flavours of Algol: 60, 68, and
W.  I dodged that bullet by first taking the fun courses like operating
system design, then dropping out before getting to the more theoretical
stuff.

It was the x86 which finally soured me on assembly language.  Fortunately,
there was C for me to move to, although for business applications I had
become fluent in COBOL and RPG.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164871

1964: one tiny program in FORTRAN on cards for an IBM 1620.

Nothing more until:

1980: Borrowed an Apple ][ for awhile, learned BASIC.

Nothing more until:

1987: Made a hand-raised copper curry pan, swapped it even for an
      Osborne 1 with software & printer.

Learned C, 8080/Z80 assembler, wrote Conway's Life in BASIC, C and assembler.
Ended up with 7 Osbornes.  Managed to compile XLisp but it was so big
that there was RAM left only for a dozen lines of Lisp.

1989: Was given an account on two networked academic systems with Unix
      and VMS.  Could log into these with the Osborne from home.  Yes,
      I created a termcap entry for the O1.  One guy thought it was
      hilarious to see Emacs on the O1 screen in the boondocks.

Omitting a regretable intervening episode using MS-DOS and Win 3.1 at
home,

Present: 5 assorted machines running Linux.  At the moment, I'm
         watching data scroll across the screen from a bicycle speedo
         magnetic switch connected to button #1 of an old serial mouse
         plugged into to a Linux P4 where a Perl script is watching
         the serial port.  The mag switch is positioned next to an
         exerise wheel in a cage were a recently captured woodland
         jumping mouse -- quite young, I think -- has run about 2.5
         miles in the last 4 hours, hitting 2.91 mph max.

The 1964 FORTRAN instructor would be horrified.  He wanted to teach us
numerical methods but the whole class threated to drop the course if
he didn't teach us how to, yew know, actually write a program.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164875

1620-II in 1967 for me.  As soon as I started playing with it I knew what I
wanted to do with my life.  I did some statistical work on a 7094, but
since I never got to touch the machine it wasn't the same. The next year
the  college got an 1130, which helped me get my first job.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164877

I wrote one program in Mancester Autocode in 1969. Then I really started 
in early 1971 on an Elliott 4130. BASIC, assembler, ALGOL-60, FORTRAN.

Moved on to...too many to list!


-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164872

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
>ideas.
>
>

My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
mainframe in 1967.

Steve

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164874

"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message 
news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>>ideas.
>
> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
> mainframe in 1967.

I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
for the first attempt for a home CPU!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164878

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:

> "Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
> news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge of the
>>>source and workings of it, having been on the systems programmer course
>>>at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack knowledge
>>>about what is hiding under the API with which I interact, and it is
>>>that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS ideas.
>>
>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>> mainframe in 1967.
> 
> I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973 for the
> first attempt for a home CPU!

I have a 512 byte core memory module from an Atlas (no, not a RIPE Atlas, 
although I have an early one of those too).



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164881

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

>"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message 
>news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>>>ideas.
>>
>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>> mainframe in 1967.
>
>I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
>for the first attempt for a home CPU!
>

Did you use them? The core stores were only a small part of the whole
store. Intermittent store parity fails were always blamed on the core
but were always something else. I fixed a lot of SPF's without ever
changing a core or even taken a cover off! 

Steve

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164882

"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message 
news:858llbl14o60u7tmqv8pkshvdm7320p1dm@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
>>news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>>>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>>>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>>>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>>>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>>>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>>>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>>>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>>>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>>>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>>>>ideas.
>>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>>> mainframe in 1967.
>>I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
>>for the first attempt for a home CPU!
> Did you use them? The core stores were only a small part of the whole
> store. Intermittent store parity fails were always blamed on the core
> but were always something else. I fixed a lot of SPF's without ever
> changing a core or even taken a cover off!

No, I never ended up using them because I did not get any of the drive 
electronics,
and, in any case, during the sloooow construction of my 8-bit TTL processor
two-off 256 by 1 bit static RAMs came my way and the 128 bytes that gave me
with a bit of shift registering satisfied my early need.

I got the Leo stuff from a scrap merchant in Llandudno together with some 
black anodised
boxes containing what I presumed to be hand-wired ROM, the result of which
is that I now have a lifetime's supply of OA10 diodes (But did I bin them
during a recent clear out? I certainly binned the RTL round shiny ICs from
a different source!)

The core stacks were in self-contained cases with 48 4K planes in each, but 
over
the years, others expressed an interest in having some planes for their 
collection,
and I ended up keeping 8 for a byte's worth except that now I only have 7 
because
someone wanted some cores for electronic experimentation!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164883

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:57:50 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

>No, I never ended up using them because I did not get any of the drive 
>electronics,
>and, in any case, during the sloooow construction of my 8-bit TTL processor
>two-off 256 by 1 bit static RAMs came my way and the 128 bytes that gave me
>with a bit of shift registering satisfied my early need.
>

The store electronics filled four cabinets that were about seven foot
high, two foot wide and three foot deep. You would have needed a bit a
spare room!

>I got the Leo stuff from a scrap merchant in Llandudno together with some 
>black anodised
>boxes containing what I presumed to be hand-wired ROM, the result of which
>is that I now have a lifetime's supply of OA10 diodes (But did I bin them
>during a recent clear out? I certainly binned the RTL round shiny ICs from
>a different source!)
>

The LEO III ROMs were known as microplane stores. Another item that
never went wrong if never touched. I remember fitting two extra
microplane to extend the machine code to have floating point
instructions. 

>The core stacks were in self-contained cases with 48 4K planes in each, but 
>over
>the years, others expressed an interest in having some planes for their 
>collection,
>and I ended up keeping 8 for a byte's worth except that now I only have 7 
>because
>someone wanted some cores for electronic experimentation!
>
>

Your mention of bytes is another memory for me. LEO didn't work in
bytes. It worked in 44 and 48 bit words. Werner Buchholz coined the
name byte for IBM in 1956 but LEO I was up and running in words.
Thankfully the whole industry went for the byte! 

Steve

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164884

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 13:57:52 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

> Your mention of bytes is another memory for me. LEO didn't work in
> bytes. It worked in 44 and 48 bit words. Werner Buchholz coined the name
> byte for IBM in 1956 but LEO I was up and running in words. Thankfully
> the whole industry went for the byte!

My first real programming was on a 24 bit word oriented machine (Elliott 
4130). Also ICL 1900 (24 bit word), and PDP-10 (36 bit word, and yes, I 
know about byte pointers).

And I have two word-oriented machines right here. 12 bits.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#164879

In article <plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com>,
Stephen Wolstenholme  <steve@easynn.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
><no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>
>>The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS 
>>ideas.

I can relate to this, very much.

In various PPOEs I have written a lot of code, and they always
critisize me of coding too close to the metal. But I generally
need fewer lines of code that using X intervening libraries; I just
have to make a library or two myself for the task at hand.

I do get praise for fast and small code, though.

It is probably because I want to know what is going on all the 
way, if not in detail, at least have a general understanding.
I have that with Linux, (Free|Open)BSD, QNX, Primos and Tops20.
i.e. I have a good mental map of the internal working principles
and modules. 

I have tried getting there with Windows, but AFAIK it is just
documented as a black box.

I am not so stringent to want full control over the entire stack, 
I just want to know that people I can trust have that control, and
that it is fully verifiable.

>My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>mainframe in 1967.

My first one was a TI-59. Programmable calculator. Really a 
primitive assembler. 

Some upper hundreds program steps, a.k.a. Instructions. Not a
firm figure, just "past 500", depending on register use and
use of constants.

-- mrr

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers

csiph-web