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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #162948 > unrolled thread

Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)?

Started byjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
First post2016-04-26 11:42 +0000
Last post2016-05-10 04:56 +1000
Articles 14 on this page of 54 — 17 participants

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Contents

  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-26 11:42 +0000
    Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-04-26 14:36 -0500
      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 00:42 +0200
        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-27 13:48 +0000
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:41 +0200
      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:40 +0000
        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Andy Burns <feb2017-usenet@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-04-27 14:51 +0100
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-04-27 22:27 -0500
            Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-28 07:49 -0700
                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-28 17:03 +0000
                  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-28 12:18 -0500
                    Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-28 11:19 -0700
                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-28 14:19 -0700
                  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:47 -0500
                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-29 12:18 +0000
              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-28 17:03 +0000
                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-29 12:18 +0000
                  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 15:14 +0200
              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-03 14:09 +0000
        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-04-27 22:19 -0500
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-03 14:21 +0000
        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-03 14:03 +0000
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-05-03 13:58 -0500
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-05-03 14:22 -0500
            Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-04 20:21 +0000
          tape drives [was Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)?] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-05-03 15:39 -0400
          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
            Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-05-04 11:45 -0500
              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 01:13 +0200
                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-05-05 14:25 -0500
                  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-05 19:34 +0000
                    Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-06 14:39 +0000
                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-06 14:41 +0000
                        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
                          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-07 16:47 +0000
                            Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-07 23:30 +0100
                              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
                          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-05-07 16:07 -0500
                          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-07 21:23 +0000
                            Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
                              Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 15:13 +0000
                                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-09 17:05 +0000
                                  Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-09 22:41 +0000
                                    Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 12:01 +0200
                                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-10 06:42 -0400
                                    Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
                                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 13:05 +0000
                                        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
                                          Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-11 13:27 +0000
                                      Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 15:53 +0200
                                        Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
                                Re: IBM's 96 column punch card (was System/3)? "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:56 +1000

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]


#163366

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2016-05-07 21:23 +0000
Message-ID<J1tXy.14037$Iu5.1173@fx06.iad>
In reply to#163340
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:

>>>>
>>>> I quite enjoyed using our 200IPS GCR drives (rebadged STC, IIRC).  They
>>>> actually had a higher transfer rate than one of our models of disk drive,
>>>> which I found to my consternation when I tested a double-buffering
>algorithm
>>>> that didn't bother to wait for write completion (under the assumption that
>>>> disks were always faster than tape :-).
>>>
>>><GRIN>  Computers always did that to developers.  What did you do to "fix"
>>>it?
>>
>> Waited for the disk write to complete before starting the next
>> magtape read into the buffer.
>
>Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?

Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
improved performance.

This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
onto the boot media.

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#163411

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Message-ID<PM000532544FAB5CDC@aca41104.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#163366
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I quite enjoyed using our 200IPS GCR drives (rebadged STC, IIRC).  They
>>>>> actually had a higher transfer rate than one of our models of disk
drive,
>>>>> which I found to my consternation when I tested a double-buffering
>>algorithm
>>>>> that didn't bother to wait for write completion (under the assumption
that
>>>>> disks were always faster than tape :-).
>>>>
>>>><GRIN>  Computers always did that to developers.  What did you do to "fix"
>>>>it?
>>>
>>> Waited for the disk write to complete before starting the next
>>> magtape read into the buffer.
>>
>>Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>
> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
> improved performance.
>
> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
> onto the boot media.

Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).

/BAH

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#163470

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2016-05-09 15:13 +0000
Message-ID<4O1Yy.15985$6I7.4514@fx16.iad>
In reply to#163411
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:

>>>Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>
>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>> improved performance.
>>
>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
>> onto the boot media.
>
>Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).

Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.

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#163475

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-05-09 17:05 +0000
Message-ID<ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#163470
On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>
>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>> improved performance.
>>>
>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
>>> onto the boot media.
>>
>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>
> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.

If they did, it was time to call in the CE.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#163496

Frompechter@pechter.net (William Pechter)
Date2016-05-09 22:41 +0000
Message-ID<ngr3mn$k75$2@pechter.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#163475
In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>
>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>>> improved performance.
>>>>
>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>
>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>
>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>
>If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>
>-- 
>/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
>\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
> X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
>/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!


Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach 
or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
the adjustment gear.

bill

-- 
-- 
Digital had it then.  Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-gmail.com  http://xkcd.com/705/

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#163504

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-05-10 12:01 +0200
Message-ID<e5o80d-k6i.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#163496
In article <ngr3mn$k75$2@pechter.eternal-september.org>,
William Pechter <pechter@pechter.net> wrote:
>In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
>Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>>>> improved performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
>>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>>
>>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>>
>>If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>>
>>-- 
>>/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
>>\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
>> X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
>>/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
>
>
>Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach 
>or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>the adjustment gear.

Until the drive is worn. After a good number of years the vacuum column
started leaking; just a little bit, on all of our Kennedy tape drives.
They had a little movement of tape, but the electronics saw to it that
there was no net movement of tape, just a little vibration, 2-3 mm
at the most, when the tape was in the most worn part of the vacumm 
column.

Since we used software that made the tapes stream as much as possible
this was never a real problem.

-- mrr

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#163507

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-05-10 06:42 -0400
Message-ID<1669986028.484569653.202504.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#163504
Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ngr3mn$k75$2@pechter.eternal-september.org>,
> William Pechter <pechter@pechter.net> wrote:
>> In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
>> Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>>>>> improved performance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system (COLDSTART)
>>>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>>> 
>>>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>>> 
>>> If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> /~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
>>> \ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
>>> X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
>>> / \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
>> 
>> 
>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach 
>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>> the adjustment gear.
> 
> Until the drive is worn. After a good number of years the vacuum column
> started leaking; just a little bit, on all of our Kennedy tape drives.
> They had a little movement of tape, but the electronics saw to it that
> there was no net movement of tape, just a little vibration, 2-3 mm
> at the most, when the tape was in the most worn part of the vacumm 
> column.

This is about what I observed.  The tape gap would hide the problem in use.

> 
> Since we used software that made the tapes stream as much as possible
> this was never a real problem.
> 
> -- mrr
> 



-- 
Pete

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#163510

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Message-ID<PM0005327C08C91A0D@aca4069b.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#163496
William Pechter wrote:
> In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
> Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>>>> improved performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system
(COLDSTART)
>>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>>
>>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>>
>>If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>
> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
> the adjustment gear.

Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
it's because they weren't in a development lab.

/BAH

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#163516

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2016-05-10 13:05 +0000
Message-ID<h0lYy.16839$6k.9257@fx26.iad>
In reply to#163510
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>William Pechter wrote:

>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>> the adjustment gear.
>
>Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
>bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
>it's because they weren't in a development lab.

A development lab is all that I was ever in, except for a handful
of visits to customers.   We had to support several generations of
tape-drives in the MCP, so we had a wide range of old and new drives
in the labs.

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#163558

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
Message-ID<PM0005328FFDABF37A@aca46c75.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#163516
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>William Pechter wrote:
>
>>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
>>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>>> the adjustment gear.
>>
>>Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
>>bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
>>it's because they weren't in a development lab.
>
> A development lab is all that I was ever in, except for a handful
> of visits to customers.   We had to support several generations of
> tape-drives in the MCP, so we had a wide range of old and new drives
> in the labs.

The lab developed the hardware and then the software for the new gear?

/BAH

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#163564

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2016-05-11 13:27 +0000
Message-ID<GqGYy.30039$H_5.16171@fx18.iad>
In reply to#163558
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>William Pechter wrote:
>>
>>>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
>>>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>>>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>>>> the adjustment gear.
>>>
>>>Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
>>>bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
>>>it's because they weren't in a development lab.
>>
>> A development lab is all that I was ever in, except for a handful
>> of visits to customers.   We had to support several generations of
>> tape-drives in the MCP, so we had a wide range of old and new drives
>> in the labs.
>
>The lab developed the hardware and then the software for the new gear?
>

Yes.   And supported all the old gear as well.   Very large lab.

For those who don't use dialup, here's the 1980's[*] version
of the software development (operating system, compilers, networking, et alia) lab:

http://www.lurndal.org/images/unisys_pasadena.jpg

The hardware labs were in different locations in the building (the
subbasement had a B7900 installation used for CAD and simulation).

[*] After we had combined three separate cramped software labs from the
    basement.  When manufacturing was moved to Rancho Bernardo,
    the manufacturing floor was remodeled into a large lab and
    a bunch of offices around 1986.

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#163519

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-05-10 15:53 +0200
Message-ID<sm590d-9li.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#163510
In article <PM0005327C08C91A0D@aca4069b.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>William Pechter wrote:
>> In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
>> Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>>>>> improved performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system
>(COLDSTART)
>>>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>>>
>>>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>>>
>>>If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>>
>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>> the adjustment gear.
>
>Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
>bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
>it's because they weren't in a development lab.
>
>/BAH

I saw it.

But if the tape had any net movement we would call in field service
and have the countermoves calibrated. If the tape drive was a Real Tape[1], 
and it was setup correctly it just vibrated a little bit.

-- mrr

[1] Which would exclude most of the DEC products. 

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#163557

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
Message-ID<PM000532900B22FA14@aca46c75.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#163519
Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM0005327C08C91A0D@aca4069b.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>William Pechter wrote:
>>> In article <ngqg0v11dmi@news6.newsguy.com>,
>>> Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On 2016-05-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>>>>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't
have
>>>>>>> improved performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system
>>(COLDSTART)
>>>>>>> onto the boot media.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>>>>> trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because
getting
>>>>>> it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.
>>>>
>>>>If they did, it was time to call in the CE.
>>>
>>> Only time tapes move when they're idle is when there's some tach
>>> or vacuum switch (or leak) issue making it move.  Tape should be still
>>> when not reading/writing or rewinding.  If not call the tech to bring
>>> the adjustment gear.
>>
>>Oh, there isn't any reading or writing going on. It just creeps a little
>>bit.  But everyone else is saying they never saw it.  I wonder if
>>it's because they weren't in a development lab.
>>
>>/BAH
>
> I saw it.

Good.  I don't have to explain more.
>
> But if the tape had any net movement we would call in field service
> and have the countermoves calibrated. If the tape drive was a Real Tape[1],
> and it was setup correctly it just vibrated a little bit.

Right.  But field service knew how to calibrate because of the work
done in our lab.  I suppose that the creep we saw was part of the
field service work for the final product.  TW would have worked
with FS and the hardware engineers to solve the problem.
>
> [1] Which would exclude most of the DEC products.

Except the good drives we put on the systems. ;-)


/BAH

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#163485

From"Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-10 04:56 +1000
Message-ID<dpc4qfFiisiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#163470

"Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message 
news:4O1Yy.15985$6I7.4514@fx16.iad...
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>>>Would having a buffer ring be too complicated?
>>>
>>> Would have been unnecessary, the double buffer algorithm used 100% of
>>> the device (disk /tape) bandwidth as it was.   Adding more wouldn't have
>>> improved performance.
>>>
>>> This was used in the code that installed the operating system 
>>> (COLDSTART)
>>> onto the boot media.
>>
>>Ah, you were the only one on the system; that makes a differnce.  I was
>>trying to think of a way to not have to stop the magtape because getting
>>it started again would take finagling (tapes move when idle).
>
> Tapes on the dozen models of tape drives I used never moved when idle.

Me neither. 

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