Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #162467 > unrolled thread

Re: Thanks Obama

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Re: Thanks Obama Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2016-04-14 17:39 -0400
    Re: Thanks Obama Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-14 20:29 -0400
      Re: Thanks Obama Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-14 18:55 -0700
      Re: Thanks Obama Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-15 09:23 -0400
      Re: Thanks Obama Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 10:53 -0400
    Re: Thanks Obama mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 16:34 +0000
      Re: Thanks Obama Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-15 15:24 -0400
        Re: Thanks Obama "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 20:30 +1000
          Re: Thanks Obama Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
            Re: Thanks Obama Dean Worrell <Xworrelldk@XameritechX.net> - 2016-04-21 12:46 -0500
              Re: Thanks Obama Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-22 11:13 -0400
            Re: Thanks Obama Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-21 13:59 -0500

#162467 — Re: Thanks Obama

On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...

It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#162470

Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:

> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>
> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.

Didn't know they burn too, so, from Wikipedia:

  Depleted  uranium  is  favored  for   the  penetrator  because  it  is
  self-sharpening and flammable.[31] On impact  with a hard target, such
  as an  armored vehicle, the  nose of the rod  fractures in such  a way
  that  it remains  sharp. The  impact  and subsequent  release of  heat
  energy  causes it  to ignite.[31]  When  a DU  penetrator reaches  the
  interior  of  an  armored  vehicle it  catches  fire,  often  igniting
  ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle
  to explode.

Nasty stuff.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162472

Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
> Didn't know they burn too, so, from Wikipedia:
>
>   Depleted  uranium  is  favored  for   the  penetrator  because  it  is
>   self-sharpening and flammable.[31] On impact  with a hard target, such
>   as an  armored vehicle, the  nose of the rod  fractures in such  a way
>   that  it remains  sharp. The  impact  and subsequent  release of  heat
>   energy  causes it  to ignite.[31]  When  a DU  penetrator reaches  the
>   interior  of  an  armored  vehicle it  catches  fire,  often  igniting
>   ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle
>   to explode.
>
> Nasty stuff.

Burton got them down to $13/shell for desert storm ... a million shells
used was $13M .... much more effective and enormously more
cost/effective than much of the other stuff used
... military-industrial-complex really hated it because it was
significant lower profit margin than the other stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#military.industrial.complex

GAO desert storm air power effectiveness study had Iraqis walking away
from the tanks because they were "sitting ducks" and so easily taken out
... last 100hrs (of 42day desert strom) was the land war and there were
reports of ferocious tank battles with the Iraqis with Allies receiving
no damage (but didn't mention whether Iraqi tanks had anybody home).

At a Marine Corp Univ. Boyd meeting a couple years ago, Burton said that
Boyd destroyed his career when Boyd challenged Burton to do what was
right ... tries to fix Bradley.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HXY969W/
HBO made into film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars

the guy managing Bradley got a promotion and Burton forced to retire
early (he was 1st Air Force Academy graduation class and had been on
fast-track to general).

boyd posts & Boyd URLs around the web.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162496

Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:
> 
>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> 
>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>> 
>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
> 
> Didn't know they burn too, so, from Wikipedia:
> 
>   Depleted  uranium  is  favored  for   the  penetrator  because  it  is
>   self-sharpening and flammable.[31] On impact  with a hard target, such
>   as an  armored vehicle, the  nose of the rod  fractures in such  a way
>   that  it remains  sharp. The  impact  and subsequent  release of  heat
>   energy  causes it  to ignite.[31]  When  a DU  penetrator reaches  the
>   interior  of  an  armored  vehicle it  catches  fire,  often  igniting
>   ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle
>   to explode.
> 
> Nasty stuff.
> 

Depends on which end of it you're on.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162614

In article <nepce3$6dm$1@dont-email.me>, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> 
wrote:

> Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:
> 
> > On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
> >> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
> >
> > It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
> > they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
> 
> Didn't know they burn too, so, from Wikipedia:
> 
>   Depleted  uranium  is  favored  for   the  penetrator  because  it  is
>   self-sharpening and flammable.[31] On impact  with a hard target, such
>   as an  armored vehicle, the  nose of the rod  fractures in such  a way
>   that  it remains  sharp. The  impact  and subsequent  release of  heat
>   energy  causes it  to ignite.[31]  When  a DU  penetrator reaches  the
>   interior  of  an  armored  vehicle it  catches  fire,  often  igniting
>   ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle
>   to explode.
> 
> Nasty stuff.

C'est la guerre! At least we don't make the shell out of plutonium.

-- 
 To terrify children with the image of hell,
 to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?  
  Christopher Hitchens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162512

On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>
> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>
>

AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US. 
Special ranges are used. 


-- 
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa 
Ireland

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162524

<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> 
>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>> 
>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>> 
>> 
> 
> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US. 
> Special ranges are used. 
> 
> 

Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).  I'm not sure how much radioactivity it
has.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162794

"Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1367209542.482440737.837290.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>>>
>>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US.
>> Special ranges are used.
>>
>>
>
> Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).

No more than lead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Human_exposure

> I'm not sure how much radioactivity it has.

Its only weakly radioactive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162807

3899jk <3899jk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1367209542.482440737.837290.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>>>> 
>>>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>>>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US.
>>> Special ranges are used.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).
> 
> No more than lead.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Human_exposure
> 
>> I'm not sure how much radioactivity it has.
> 
> Its only weakly radioactive
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium 
> 
> 

I thought there were some complaints the our use of depleted Uranium shells
had littered Iraq with hazardous substances.  Of course, some people will
complain about anything.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162812

On 4/21/2016 11:34 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> 3899jk <3899jk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1367209542.482440737.837290.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>>>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>>>>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US.
>>>> Special ranges are used.
>>>
>>> Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).
>>
>> No more than lead.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Human_exposure
>>
>>> I'm not sure how much radioactivity it has.
>>
>> Its only weakly radioactive
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium
>
> I thought there were some complaints the our use of depleted Uranium shells
> had littered Iraq with hazardous substances.  Of course, some people will
> complain about anything.

Well, just like lead you don't want to inhale or ingest U238.  Its 
radioactivity is really a non-issue.  With a halflife of 4.5E9 years if 
U238 were any less radioactive it wouldn't be radioactive at all.

Now U does decay down to some bad things like radon and its daughters. 
So there is that.

-- 
Dean

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162862

In article <nfb3fj$hap$1@dont-email.me>,
 Dean Worrell <Xworrelldk@XameritechX.net> wrote:

> On 4/21/2016 11:34 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> > 3899jk <3899jk@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1367209542.482440737.837290.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-septemb
> >> er.org...
> >>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
> >>>>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
> >>>>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
> >>>>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US.
> >>>> Special ranges are used.
> >>>
> >>> Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).
> >>
> >> No more than lead.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Human_exposure
> >>
> >>> I'm not sure how much radioactivity it has.
> >>
> >> Its only weakly radioactive
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium
> >
> > I thought there were some complaints the our use of depleted Uranium shells
> > had littered Iraq with hazardous substances.  Of course, some people will
> > complain about anything.
> 
> Well, just like lead you don't want to inhale or ingest U238.  Its 
> radioactivity is really a non-issue.  With a halflife of 4.5E9 years if 
> U238 were any less radioactive it wouldn't be radioactive at all.
> 
> Now U does decay down to some bad things like radon and its daughters. 
> So there is that.

U238 is a piker compared to Bismuth with a half life of 4.6*10^19 years. 
So U238 could be a *lot* less radioactive and still be radioactive.

So Pepto-Bismol is radioactive, but nobody cares. Bananas, for example, 
are much more radioactive, because they contain potassium a necessary
element for human life.
radioactive.

-- 
 To terrify children with the image of hell,
 to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?  
  Christopher Hitchens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162815

On 4/21/2016 11:34 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> 3899jk <3899jk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1367209542.482440737.837290.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-04-14, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-01-20 5:40 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the F-35 is an upgrade of the A-10, which fired slugs made of
>>>>>> depleted uranium.  It's the mass that counts...
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not just the high mass of the U-238 slugs,
>>>>> they ignite and burn when they hist things like tanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK, it is forbidden to fire depleted uranium in the US.
>>>> Special ranges are used.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Uranium metal is poisonous (AFAIK).
>>
>> No more than lead.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Human_exposure
>>
>>> I'm not sure how much radioactivity it has.
>>
>> Its only weakly radioactive
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium

If by "weakly" you mean, 60% the level of natural uranium.

> I thought there were some complaints the our use of depleted Uranium shells
> had littered Iraq with hazardous substances.  Of course, some people will
> complain about anything.
>
The Gulf War and the invasion of Iraq are the principal places where 
DU munitions (and armor, which is another application) have been 
extensively used.

Since it burns, that disseminates (with a very small particle size) it 
pretty well. How damaging it is depends on whether the compound is 
soluble or insoluble, and the mechanism of exposure. According to the 
WHO "insoluble inhaled uranium particles, 1-10 um in size, tend to be 
retained in the lung and may lead to irradiation damage of the lung 
and even lung cancer if a high enough radiation dose results over a 
prolonged period." So those at risk aren't so much soldiers, as the 
people who live in the area. I would think dusty desert areas would be 
the most conducive to inhalation.
http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/pub_meet/en/DU_Eng.pdf

Otherwise, some of the risk seems to be mostly from the heavy-metal 
effects. Soluble compounds ingested can lead to kidney damage. 
Exposure leads to higher rates of birth defects. In Basrah, birth 
defects increased from 3.04/1000 in 1990 to 13.49/1000 in 2000. 
Presumably this is mostly a chemical rather than radiation thing, and 
also due to exposure to lead and mercury (which are also constituents 
of munitions). Parents of children with birth defects in Fallugah had 
elevated levels of all three in hair samples.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3492088/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3464374/

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers

csiph-web