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Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers

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  Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 12:33 -0700
    Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-04-20 15:23 -0500
      Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 13:44 -0700
        Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-04-20 17:22 -0500
          Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-04-21 14:06 -0500
            Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2016-04-22 08:43 -0700
              Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-04-22 11:01 -0500
                Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2016-04-22 09:25 -0700
                  Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 23:19 -0400
          Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2016-04-21 19:58 -0700
            Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-04-22 11:11 -0500
    Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-04-20 20:29 +0000
      Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 13:45 -0700
      Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 16:16 -0700
        Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-04-21 07:40 +0000
        Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-04-21 07:48 +0000
    Re: Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 18:54 -0700

#162767 — Updates and Corrections for 24-bit Computers

On my page at

http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp0303.htm

I expanded the diagram of instruction formats for 24-bit computers to show the 
format of shift instructions for several of them, and several other instruction 
formats for the Harris/Datacraft computers.

Also, instead of just putting the 24-bit components of 48-bit and 72-bit 
instructions slightly closer together, I've made it clearer which instruction 
formats involve multi-word instructions by widening the diagram.

As well, I corrected an erroneous statement to the effect that the SEL 840 used 
sign-magnitude notation; it was in fact a two's complement machine.

John Savard

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#162768

Quadibloc wrote:

> On my page at
> 
> http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp0303.htm
> 
> I expanded the diagram of instruction formats for 24-bit computers to show
> the format of shift instructions for several of them, and several other
> instruction formats for the Harris/Datacraft computers.

Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style computer, 
supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.  It was designed in 
1966 for the X-15 project, and then was used in a number of other weight- 
and power-restricted projects.  It has no internal connectors.  The boards 
are connected to the motherboard with flexible printed cables, and there is 
a system that allows you to open the boards up like a book to make repairs, 
without ever removing a board.  When assembled, aluminum plates carry the 
heat away from the boards to a baseplate.

It was probably the 2nd mass-produced IC computer, the first being the 
Apollo Guidance Computer.

Jon

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#162770

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:22:23 PM UTC-6, Jon Elson wrote:

> Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style computer, 
> supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.

No, I'd never heard of that one.

John Savard

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#162773

Quadibloc wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:22:23 PM UTC-6, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>> Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style computer,
>> supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.
> 
> No, I'd never heard of that one.
I likely have the only one in existance.  I will eventually donate it to the 
CHM, I think.  I have a historical document on the project, actually a whole 
book in size, that is pretty rare to ever have existed for a computer 
project.

As fas as I can tell, it actually is in running condition.  It is about 4 x 
7 x 16" and weighs 25 Lbs (not including power supply or memory) and draws 
about 125 W at 5 V DC.

I need to take some pictures of it.

Jon

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#162816

Jon Elson wrote:

> Quadibloc wrote:
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:22:23 PM UTC-6, Jon Elson wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style
>>> computer, supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.
>> 
>> No, I'd never heard of that one.
> I likely have the only one in existance.

Oh, wait.  The X-15 is hanging in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, so 
presumably there's one hidden in there, too.  Gee, it probably still has the 
program in it, and almost certainly still works.

Jon

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#162870

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 3:06:46 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
> Oh, wait.  The X-15 is hanging in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum

*The* X-15? I know they lost one to a crash, but I wonder what happened to the other one.

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#162871

tracymnelson@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 3:06:46 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
>> Oh, wait.  The X-15 is hanging in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum
> 
> *The* X-15? I know they lost one to a crash, but I wonder what happened to
> the other one.
It **IS** in the National Air and Space Museum collection.  There's also one 
in the Air Force's museum in Dayton, OH.

I think I've seen both, but DEFINITELY remember the one at the NASM.

Jon

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#162874

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 12:01:24 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
> tracym...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > *The* X-15? I know they lost one to a crash, but I wonder what happened to
> > the other one.
> It **IS** in the National Air and Space Museum collection.  There's also one 
> in the Air Force's museum in Dayton, OH.

D'oh! Phrased that badly. There were originally three, and one was lost. You said one was in
the NASM, I was wondering what happened to the other one. It appears to be accounted for.  
Thanks!

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#162898

In article <63887a79-c9bd-4bfa-bf99-c585e5d559bd@googlegroups.com>, 
tracymnelson@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 12:01:24 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
> > tracym...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > *The* X-15? I know they lost one to a crash, but I wonder what happened to
> > > the other one.
> > It **IS** in the National Air and Space Museum collection.  There's also one 
> > in the Air Force's museum in Dayton, OH.
> 
> D'oh! Phrased that badly. There were originally three, and one was lost. You said one was in
> the NASM, I was wondering what happened to the other one. It appears to be accounted for.  
> Thanks!

There's one at the Air Force Museum in Dayton unless it's been moved.

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#162842

On 4/20/16 3:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> Quadibloc wrote:
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:22:23 PM UTC-6, Jon Elson wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style computer,
>>> supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.
>>

the only thing we have is a general description

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102685250

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#162872

Al Kossow wrote:

> On 4/20/16 3:22 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> Quadibloc wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:22:23 PM UTC-6, Jon Elson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you know about the Honeywell Alert?  A 24-bit aviation style
>>>> computer, supposedly based on the Honeywell commercial computers.
>>>
> 
> the only thing we have is a general description
> 
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102685250

I have a set of loose pages, the "wire lists".  Totally inscrutable.
Actually, looking at it again, I'm thinking it is the wire list for ONLY the 
backplane, not the individual boards.

I also have some badly duplicated pages (wet process duplicator) that 
descibe I/O functions, I think.

I have 3 manuals that I got from Honeywell.  Design Report Vol. I contains a 
long section on history.  Design Report Vol. II is Physical Description.
I also have the Operating Manual, which describes theory of operation, the 
chips used, panel connectors, programming, etc.

Jon

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#162769

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:33:37 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On my page at
> 
> http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp0303.htm
> 
> I expanded the diagram of instruction formats for 24-bit computers to
> show the format of shift instructions for several of them, and several
> other instruction formats for the Harris/Datacraft computers.
> 
> Also, instead of just putting the 24-bit components of 48-bit and 72-bit
> instructions slightly closer together, I've made it clearer which
> instruction formats involve multi-word instructions by widening the
> diagram.
> 
> As well, I corrected an erroneous statement to the effect that the SEL
> 840 used sign-magnitude notation; it was in fact a two's complement
> machine.

A small point or three:

1) It was "International Computers Limited" (not "Computing)
2) In any case, ICL was a government-mandated merger between British
   computer companies of the time. It would be more sensible to attribute
   the ICL 1900 to its designer (and marketer for most of its life). That
   was ICT (International Computers and Tabulators)
3) This omits the Elliott (later ICL!) 4100 series. I probably have that
   stuff somewhere.




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#162771

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:29:03 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:33:37 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
> 
> > On my page at
> > 
> > http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp0303.htm
> > 
> > I expanded the diagram of instruction formats for 24-bit computers to
> > show the format of shift instructions for several of them, and several
> > other instruction formats for the Harris/Datacraft computers.
> > 
> > Also, instead of just putting the 24-bit components of 48-bit and 72-bit
> > instructions slightly closer together, I've made it clearer which
> > instruction formats involve multi-word instructions by widening the
> > diagram.
> > 
> > As well, I corrected an erroneous statement to the effect that the SEL
> > 840 used sign-magnitude notation; it was in fact a two's complement
> > machine.
> 
> A small point or three:
> 
> 1) It was "International Computers Limited" (not "Computing)
> 2) In any case, ICL was a government-mandated merger between British
>    computer companies of the time. It would be more sensible to attribute
>    the ICL 1900 to its designer (and marketer for most of its life). That
>    was ICT (International Computers and Tabulators)
> 3) This omits the Elliott (later ICL!) 4100 series. I probably have that
>    stuff somewhere.

Thank you for your information; I'll try to make the appropriate corrections 
soon.

John Savard

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#162776

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:29:03 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:

> 3) This omits the Elliott (later ICL!) 4100 series. I probably have that
>    stuff somewhere.

My page had mentioned the existence of the Elliott 4130 as a 24-bit computer, 
but nothing more. Motivated by your comment, I did a search, and managed to 
find a description of the instruction formats off of

http://www.ourcomputerheritage.org/ellio_15.htm

as it wasn't on Bitsavers, where I got most of my information from.

John Savard

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#162785

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:16:10 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:29:03 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
> 
>> 3) This omits the Elliott (later ICL!) 4100 series. I probably have
>> that
>>    stuff somewhere.
> 
> My page had mentioned the existence of the Elliott 4130 as a 24-bit
> computer,
> but nothing more. Motivated by your comment, I did a search, and managed
> to find a description of the instruction formats off of
> 
> http://www.ourcomputerheritage.org/ellio_15.htm
> 
> as it wasn't on Bitsavers, where I got most of my information from.

That's interesting. Ours was a 1966 order, Kent University, although I 
think it took a year or two to arrive. I did (almost) my first 
programming on it (in BASIC), but graduated to hackinh in assembler a few 
weeks later. I managed to subvert the entire operating system but they 
never caught me. I ended up managing its successor.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#162786

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:16:10 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:29:03 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
> 
>> 3) This omits the Elliott (later ICL!) 4100 series. I probably have
>> that
>>    stuff somewhere.
> 
> My page had mentioned the existence of the Elliott 4130 as a 24-bit
> computer,
> but nothing more. Motivated by your comment, I did a search, and managed
> to find a description of the instruction formats off of
> 
> http://www.ourcomputerheritage.org/ellio_15.htm

I know some of the people mentioned there...!

One particularly interesting feature is not mentioned there). The MSB in 
the S register (program counter) meant that the instruction was read from 
an absolute address (i.e. not via the memory management). This meant that 
virtual machines could share program code (pure procedures). This was 
vital for the time sharing system developed at Kent, where the VMs were 
1.5kW.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#162781

I've added some more information on the Harris/Datacraft computers, including explaining the way in which addressing worked on them, which was somewhat unusual. Apparently although these machines could have up to 256 K words of memory, the use of locations other than the first 64 K was limited - at least on the original 6024, later Harris machines may have added some extensions.

John Savard

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