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Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming?

Started by	Neo Fortune <serenity3043@gmail.com>
First post	2016-03-23 02:31 -0700
Last post	2016-03-30 14:56 +0100
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#162290

From	Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date	2016-04-11 19:48 -0400
Message-ID	<proto-7E5D62.19482211042016@news.panix.com>
In reply to	#162257

In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
 JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
> >
> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
> >>>>>> the engine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Wow!
> >>>>
> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
> >>>
> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
> >>>weight would increase.
> >>
> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
> >>
> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of agricultural
> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
> >> work towards this end.
> >>
> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
> >> population's weight gain.
> >>
> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
> >
> >Or like the government recommends:
> >
> >http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look-i
> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
> >
> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
> 
> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
> interest groups like the beef industry.

More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually 
made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
fresh ground whole wheat.

Anyway AFAIK there are no studies that show whole grains are healthy.
Compared to the white kinds they are shown to be less unhealthy.

-- 
 To terrify children with the image of hell,
 to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?  
  Christopher Hitchens

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#162297

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-12 15:01 +1000
Message-ID	<dn3douFqrr3U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162290


"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message 
news:proto-7E5D62.19482211042016@news.panix.com...
> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
>> >
>> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
>> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong 
>> >>>>>> place
>> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes 
>> >>>>>> on in
>> >>>>>> the engine.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) 
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing 
>> >>>>> everything
>> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Wow!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>> >>>
>> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>> >>>weight would increase.
>> >>
>> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>> >>
>> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of 
>> >> agricultural
>> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>> >> work towards this end.
>> >>
>> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
>> >> population's weight gain.
>> >>
>> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>> >
>> >Or like the government recommends:
>> >
>> >http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look-i
>> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
>> >
>> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
>>
>> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
>> interest groups like the beef industry.
>
> More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually
> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
> fresh ground whole wheat.
>
> Anyway AFAIK there are no studies that show whole grains are healthy.

You're wrong on that with roughage alone.

> Compared to the white kinds they are shown to be less unhealthy.

Nothing unhealthy about whole grains.

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#162318

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-12 12:47 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005304903035206@aca41e19.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162290

Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
>  JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
>> >
>> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
>> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong
place
>> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on
in
>> >>>>>> the engine.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers)
are
>> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Wow!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>> >>>
>> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>> >>>weight would increase.
>> >>
>> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>> >>
>> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of
agricultural
>> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>> >> work towards this end.
>> >>
>> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
>> >> population's weight gain.
>> >>
>> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>> >
>> >Or like the government recommends:
>> >
>>
>http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look-i
>> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
>> >
>> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
>>
>> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
>> interest groups like the beef industry.
>
> More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually
> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
> fresh ground whole wheat.

You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.

>
> Anyway AFAIK there are no studies that show whole grains are healthy.
> Compared to the white kinds they are shown to be less unhealthy.

The "unhealthyness" has to do with eliminattion of the germ which contains
B vitamins.

/BAH

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#162324

From	JimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-12 08:48 -0500
Message-ID	<h0vpgblkse940grr67shvc1o35jfp3kgrc@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162318

On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

>Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
>>  JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
>>> >
>>> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>>> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong
>place
>>> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on
>in
>>> >>>>>> the engine.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers)
>are
>>> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Wow!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>> >>>weight would increase.
>>> >>
>>> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>>> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>>> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>>> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of
>agricultural
>>> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>>> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>>> >> work towards this end.
>>> >>
>>> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
>>> >> population's weight gain.
>>> >>
>>> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>>> >
>>> >Or like the government recommends:
>>> >
>>>
>>http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look-i
>>> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
>>> >
>>> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
>>>
>>> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
>>> interest groups like the beef industry.
>>
>> More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually
>> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
>> fresh ground whole wheat.
>
>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.

Depends on how you make the bread. Kneading whole wheat flour makes a
tougher to chew bread.

I've made whole wheat flour bread that I was told was like cake.

-- 
JimP.

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#162342

From	mausg@mail.com
Date	2016-04-12 20:14 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnngqlns.189.mausg@Smaus.org>
In reply to	#162324

On 2016-04-12, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
>>> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
>>> fresh ground whole wheat.
>>
>>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
> Depends on how you make the bread. Kneading whole wheat flour makes a
> tougher to chew bread.
>
> I've made whole wheat flour bread that I was told was like cake.
>

My daughter was visiting her Spanish friend, who asked her if she would
like a biscuit or sweet cake. 

Daughter: "Caca Milis?(Irish for sweet  cake)"
Spanish girl: "Excuse me!"



-- 
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa 
Ireland

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#162378

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-13 13:02 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005305D3DB013A9@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162324

JimP wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
>>>  JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>>>> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong
>>place
>>>> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes
on
>>in
>>>> >>>>>> the engine.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers)
>>are
>>>> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing
everything
>>>> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Wow!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>>> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>>> >>>weight would increase.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>>>> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>>>> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>>>> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of
>>agricultural
>>>> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>>>> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>>>> >> work towards this end.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
>>>> >> population's weight gain.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>>>> >
>>>> >Or like the government recommends:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look
-i
>>>> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
>>>> >
>>>> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
>>>>
>>>> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
>>>> interest groups like the beef industry.
>>>
>>> More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually
>>> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
>>> fresh ground whole wheat.
>>
>>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
> Depends on how you make the bread. Kneading whole wheat flour makes a
> tougher to chew bread.
>
> I've made whole wheat flour bread that I was told was like cake.

It would make good quick breads.  100% wheat flour is too heavy
for yeast breads.

/BAH

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#162385

From	JimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-13 12:05 -0500
Message-ID	<10vsgbhhvc7hbh5h5kha5gq9qq7qf69g8e@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162378

On 13 Apr 2016 13:02:54 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

>JimP wrote:
>> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Walter Bushell wrote:
>>>> In article <q9lngbl73hodvsc3kfrj966npovd8it6gd@4ax.com>,
>>>>  JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:54:58 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>>>>> >> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>> >>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>> >>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>>> >>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong
>>>place
>>>>> >>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes
>on
>>>in
>>>>> >>>>>> the engine.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers)
>>>are
>>>>> >>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing
>everything
>>>>> >>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Wow!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>>>> >>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>>>> >>>weight would increase.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>>>>> >> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>>>>> >> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>>>>> >> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of
>>>agricultural
>>>>> >> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>>>>> >> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>>>>> >> work towards this end.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible for a lot of the
>>>>> >> population's weight gain.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Or like the government recommends:
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look
>-i
>>>>> >nside-healthy-eating-patterns/#food-groups
>>>>> >
>>>>> ><http://tinyurl.com/hu3hvtu>
>>>>>
>>>>> The food groups pyramid is subjected to influence from special
>>>>> interest groups like the beef industry.
>>>>
>>>> More like the corn and soy industries. And pushing grains. I actually
>>>> made honest whole wheat bread twice. It was horrid. I made it with
>>>> fresh ground whole wheat.
>>>
>>>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>
>> Depends on how you make the bread. Kneading whole wheat flour makes a
>> tougher to chew bread.
>>
>> I've made whole wheat flour bread that I was told was like cake.
>
>It would make good quick breads.  100% wheat flour is too heavy
>for yeast breads.
>
>/BAH

I never had that happen. Kneading the dough, instead of just mixing it
with a spoon enough to mix the different parts, will result in a tough
bread. Mine wasn't tough.

-- 
JimP.

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#162325

From	Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com>
Date	2016-04-12 14:53 +0100
Message-ID	<n9vpgbhlt4eljdcpccgh8evjplotghe5d9@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162318

On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

>
>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.

Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.

Steve

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

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#162375

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-13 13:02 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162325

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
> Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.

I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
think it liked the water.

/BAH

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#162424

From	"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-13 19:53 -0400
Message-ID	<MPG.3178a5ea3a64103b98a0ce@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#162375

In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com 
says...
> 
> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
> >
> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
> 
> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
> think it liked the water.

If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill 
microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it 
you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water 
for the yeast starter.

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#162430

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-14 13:22 +1000
Message-ID	<dn8gntF5je7U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162424


"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.3178a5ea3a64103b98a0ce@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
> says...
>>
>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>> >
>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>
>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>> think it liked the water.
>
> If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
> microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
> you need to let it aerate for a few days,

I have never needed to do that with any of the bread I make every
4 days, or the beer I brew or the ginger beer starter I used to culture
when I used to make that.

or, simpler, use bottled water
> for the yeast starter.

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#162436

From	"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-14 06:20 -0400
Message-ID	<MPG.317938e43456203798a0d1@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#162430

In article <dn8gntF5je7U1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
> 
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:MPG.3178a5ea3a64103b98a0ce@news.eternal-september.org...
> > In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
> > says...
> >>
> >> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> >> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
> >> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
> >> >
> >> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
> >>
> >> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
> >> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
> >> think it liked the water.
> >
> > If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
> > microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
> > you need to let it aerate for a few days,
> 
> I have never needed to do that with any of the bread I make every
> 4 days, or the beer I brew or the ginger beer starter I used to culture
> when I used to make that.

And on which town's water are you?

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#162474

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-15 12:09 +1000
Message-ID	<dnb0rnFp7eiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162436


"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.317938e43456203798a0d1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <dn8gntF5je7U1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.3178a5ea3a64103b98a0ce@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>> > says...
>> >>
>> >> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> >> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> >> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>> >> >
>> >> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>> >>
>> >> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>> >> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>> >> think it liked the water.
>> >
>> > If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>> > microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>> > you need to let it aerate for a few days,
>>
>> I have never needed to do that with any of the bread I make every
>> 4 days, or the beer I brew or the ginger beer starter I used to culture
>> when I used to make that.
>
> And on which town's water are you?

Griffith NSW Australia, fully chlorinated.

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#162434

From	Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com>
Date	2016-04-14 09:01 +0100
Message-ID	<rfjugb5l2tg241qnk109oeluc40gu1l0rf@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162424

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com 
>says...
>> 
>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>> >
>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>> 
>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>> think it liked the water.
>
>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill 
>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it 
>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water 
>for the yeast starter.
>

Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!

Steve

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

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#162444

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-14 12:49 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005307119804207@aca423ab.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162434

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>says...
>>>
>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>> >
>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>
>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>> think it liked the water.
>>
>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>for the yeast starter.
>>
>
> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!

That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)

/BAH

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#162449

From	Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date	2016-04-14 14:22 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnngv9sb.288r.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to	#162444

On 14 Apr 2016 12:49:45 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>>says...
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>> >
>>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>>
>>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>>> think it liked the water.
>>>
>>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>>for the yeast starter.
>>>
>>
>> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!
>
> That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
> breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)

The other day I was out of bread so I made some traditional Aussie
Outback Damper (like I used to do when out camping).  Very nice hot
with butter...not at all puck-like :-)

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

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#162456

From	"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com>
Date	2016-04-14 10:44 -0500
Message-ID	<neodms$mg4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#162449

"Stan Barr" <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote in message 
news:slrnngv9sb.288r.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 14 Apr 2016 12:49:45 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>>>says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>>>> think it liked the water.
>>>>
>>>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>>>for the yeast starter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!
>>
>> That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
>> breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)
>
> The other day I was out of bread so I made some traditional Aussie
> Outback Damper (like I used to do when out camping).  Very nice hot
> with butter...not at all puck-like :-)
>

Stan, that is because *your* bread is a success, whereas BAH's bread is a 
*failure*! ;-)

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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#162461

From	mausg@mail.com
Date	2016-04-14 17:27 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnngvkne.188.mausg@Smaus.org>
In reply to	#162456

On 2016-04-14, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> "Stan Barr" <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote in message 
> news:slrnngv9sb.288r.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de...
>> On 14 Apr 2016 12:49:45 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>>>>says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>>>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>>>>> think it liked the water.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>>>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>>>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>>>>for the yeast starter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!
>>>
>>> That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
>>> breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)
>>
>> The other day I was out of bread so I made some traditional Aussie
>> Outback Damper (like I used to do when out camping).  Very nice hot
>> with butter...not at all puck-like :-)
>>
>
> Stan, that is because *your* bread is a success, whereas BAH's bread is a 
> *failure*! ;-)
>

Cooking and food is fun. Which means, try new things. A failure is  
when you cant eat the result, a complete failure is when the dog won't.


-- 
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa 
Ireland

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#162450

From	Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date	2016-04-14 15:59 +0200
Message-ID	<vbk4uc-hmb.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to	#162444

In article <PM0005307119804207@aca423ab.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>>says...
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>> >
>>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>>
>>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>>> think it liked the water.
>>>
>>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>>for the yeast starter.
>>>
>>
>> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!
>
>That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
>breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)

You seem to have moved into one of those bakery-unfriendly houses.
Have you tried to add a little honey to the dough?

-- mrr

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#162488

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-15 12:18 +0000
Message-ID	<PM00053084F650BFFC@aca41163.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162450

Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM0005307119804207@aca423ab.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:53:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <PM0005305D38A461F6@aca43c2a.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>>>>says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>> > On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>>> >>cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Try mixing oats with your wheat. That makes even better bread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also used buckwheat, raw wheat germ and flax with my home-grown
>>>>> sourdough starter.  After I moved here, the starter died.  I don't
>>>>> think it liked the water.
>>>>
>>>>If you're on town water it wouldn't--town water is chlorinated to kill
>>>>microorganisms, like yeast.  It will also kill fish.  Before using it
>>>>you need to let it aerate for a few days, or, simpler, use bottled water
>>>>for the yeast starter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or make soda bread so you don't need yeast at all!
>>
>>That happens to be one of the laws of my life--all my soda
>>breads and biscuits become hockey pucks.  :-)
>
> You seem to have moved into one of those bakery-unfriendly houses.
> Have you tried to add a little honey to the dough?

Oh, it's not the house, it's a law of my life. I failed
biscuit making in Home Ec.  If I need biscuit-type stuff, I use
Bisquik.   Another thing I mess up, which JMF did well, is graham
cracker crust.  JMF would make the crust and I would make the
filling which was whipped cream and cream cheese topped with
cherries or some other fruit.  Delish!

/BAH

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csiph-web

Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming?

Contents

#162290

#162297

#162318

#162324

#162342

#162378

#162385

#162325

#162375

#162424

#162430

#162436

#162474

#162434

#162444

#162449

#162456

#162461

#162450

#162488