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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161636 > unrolled thread
| Started by | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500 |
| Articles |
20 on this page of 1000+
— 51 participants
Thread has 1157 articles; only the first 1000 are indexed. |
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Thread has 1157 articles; showing the first 1000 in depth-first order. Use the flat group view to see the rest.
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 09:15 -0700
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:03 +1100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 09:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:12 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 17:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-12 00:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 20:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 21:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:12 +1100
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:15 +1100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-02 05:34 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-02 08:31 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-02 12:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-02 20:49 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 08:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 10:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:43 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 15:45 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:29 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:51 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-03 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gatuzo <Gatuzo@mccarragher.org> - 2016-04-03 21:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 11:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:47 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 14:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 17:05 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 18:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-05 03:05 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 06:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 06:33 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-13 07:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:30 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:22 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:16 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:05 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:08 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:48 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 09:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-06 00:39 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-06 09:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 14:16 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:20 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 19:24 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 14:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:22 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:56 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 11:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:36 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:33 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:15 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:40 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:31 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-05 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 08:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 16:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-13 11:11 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 04:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 20:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:10 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 07:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:09 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:07 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 16:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:36 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 22:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:35 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 21:54 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-13 23:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-14 23:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 16:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 20:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 11:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-02 16:28 -0500
Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-04-02 21:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:56 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-06 16:32 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 11:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:13 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-02 20:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 05:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 07:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 14:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:27 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 16:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-03 11:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-03 11:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 11:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:31 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 01:58 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:50 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:33 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 09:22 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:38 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 17:20 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:23 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:40 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 15:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:57 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-05 21:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 11:27 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 14:52 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 04:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 22:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:26 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:39 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:37 +0100
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 10:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:40 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 19:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-05 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-12 13:47 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-12 16:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-12 17:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:36 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-14 16:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 12:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-14 20:35 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-15 09:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-15 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-15 16:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-15 11:59 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 18:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-16 01:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 22:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-16 10:13 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 18:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-17 10:29 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-20 20:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-20 19:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-16 13:16 +0200
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-16 13:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 10:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 20:46 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 09:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-17 12:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 08:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 09:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:51 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 12:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 12:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 16:44 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 16:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 13:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 18:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 14:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:19 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:13 -0500
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-26 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-28 06:09 +1000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 16:12 -0300
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 06:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-04-19 22:06 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 10:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-20 10:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 11:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-21 08:01 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-20 10:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-20 18:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 13:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 11:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 15:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:19 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-21 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 11:28 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 07:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-20 17:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 03:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:11 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-21 14:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 20:20 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-22 11:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 16:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 12:21 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:03 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:33 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-22 07:11 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 05:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-22 15:01 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 12:21 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-24 11:21 +0200
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-24 12:43 +0200
Re: Qbasic Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-04-25 07:16 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 10:10 +0200
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-25 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name,invalid> - 2016-04-26 00:05 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 06:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-26 07:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-26 12:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 13:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 10:18 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 16:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 11:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:15 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:10 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-24 11:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 07:43 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-24 12:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-24 17:01 -0300
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-26 21:37 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-26 16:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-26 22:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:18 +1000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 19:32 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-28 13:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-29 12:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-29 13:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 15:19 +0200
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-29 14:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-29 09:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 19:51 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 06:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 14:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:54 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:02 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 05:49 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-25 15:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 23:56 +0200
Re: Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-04-22 01:02 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-22 15:22 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-22 11:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:21 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:45 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 15:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 19:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:04 -0300
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:17 -0500
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 12:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:00 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:22 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-26 17:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-04-26 14:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 21:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-27 16:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:24 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 06:06 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 11:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:48 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:09 +0200
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-28 22:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:46 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 20:00 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:30 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-30 23:39 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:23 -0500
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-26 22:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:08 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:40 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-27 12:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-04-28 20:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-28 19:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:41 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-29 22:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-29 17:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-30 07:10 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-30 01:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-30 06:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-30 23:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:55 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-02 17:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-02 22:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 14:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 12:37 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-03 19:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 17:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-06 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-07 16:27 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-08 20:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-07 16:47 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:23 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 12:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-30 12:43 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 19:58 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-30 15:09 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:49 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:06 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-01 04:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-01 06:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re:AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-30 12:00 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 15:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:15 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 15:24 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-02 15:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 07:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:33 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:47 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:33 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:30 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:27 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:35 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:23 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 22:08 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-05 19:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 07:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-06 15:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 22:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-07 20:01 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:33 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 06:52 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 14:40 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:36 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 11:01 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 13:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-07 20:13 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 20:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 23:45 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 22:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:10 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:47 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:47 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 18:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 14:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 15:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 15:01 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 08:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:46 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-05 21:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 22:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 20:52 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-05 07:05 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-03 13:40 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-04 16:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:38 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:25 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 01:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 14:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 20:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 10:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-02 12:49 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 07:01 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 10:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 12:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:22 +0000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 08:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 13:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 05:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 21:04 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:18 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-03 14:54 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 23:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 16:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-05 13:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:59 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-04 15:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-03 21:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 17:40 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:56 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 23:38 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:55 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 04:02 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:37 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-03 17:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:24 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 17:37 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 11:07 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:26 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 00:58 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 09:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:20 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:49 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 10:26 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 13:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:38 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:11 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:30 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-05-05 15:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 15:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 10:03 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-05-22 09:02 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 14:36 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic <hgtr@nospam.com> - 2016-05-23 09:10 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 19:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Jim Simon" <887jas@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 21:57 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 13:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:58 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:46 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-05 15:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-06 18:10 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 23:05 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 13:54 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:24 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:19 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 15:46 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 07:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 18:23 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 19:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-08 14:19 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 10:36 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-09 22:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-08 16:56 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:06 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-09 22:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:47 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-23 11:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 14:56 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 20:39 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:41 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:49 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:47 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-08 20:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 20:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 22:46 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-07 21:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 19:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:22 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 16:02 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 07:31 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:44 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:56 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.imvalid> - 2016-05-07 22:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:29 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 16:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:52 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 15:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:38 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 19:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 13:05 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 08:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 20:51 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 13:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 08:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 15:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 13:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 15:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:07 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:23 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:27 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 13:03 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-11 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-12 13:04 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 14:44 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-12 15:47 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 09:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-13 10:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 11:06 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 18:16 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 12:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 20:25 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 14:27 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-14 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-14 15:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-14 21:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-14 15:12 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-14 16:15 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-14 19:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-14 19:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-15 11:37 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:16 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:21 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-15 09:55 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:26 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-15 15:19 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-15 09:57 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 20:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-17 12:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:26 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-12 11:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 03:19 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 09:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 10:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-11 16:29 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 14:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 13:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 12:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-12 14:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-12 19:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-11 21:11 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 05:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 15:56 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:56 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 16:00 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:16 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 17:22 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-10 18:20 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-13 12:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 18:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 14:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 11:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:15 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:11 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:49 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:07 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 08:30 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:30 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-16 22:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mrr@sambook.reistad.name (Morten Reistad) - 2016-05-17 11:10 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:19 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-10 16:01 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:20 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 22:59 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 19:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:42 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:38 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:13 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 00:32 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 10:36 +1000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-02 13:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-28 22:03 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 12:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:28 +0200
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-04-26 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 00:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:23 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 03:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 02:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 10:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 11:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 19:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 09:13 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 13:19 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 17:20 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-19 13:55 +0200
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 16:47 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-18 16:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 17:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 19:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-19 14:15 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 21:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 11:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 16:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:07 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-19 16:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-20 00:45 -0300
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-20 06:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:56 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 18:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:47 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 11:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-17 14:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 14:16 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 12:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:09 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 18:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-18 03:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:48 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 09:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:51 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:53 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 19:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 19:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-16 12:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 07:24 -0400
Re: Wikipedia interest, was Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-16 13:10 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 11:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:57 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-18 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-18 15:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 21:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 06:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 10:51 +0000
Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 15:48 -0300
Re: Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:06 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 07:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 17:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:37 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-05 10:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:08 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-06 07:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-06 12:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:42 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:14 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:57 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-04 14:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 09:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 16:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 21:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 22:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 09:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 12:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-03 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #161871 |
In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >> >> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >> >> > What countries under systems of dictatorship can, today, withstand the >> > all-volunteer military of the United States of America? >> >> Let's see now: Russia and China, having strategic nuclear capability, and a >> credible second-strike capability, could withstand _even_ such an enlarged U.S. >> military as could be created by a general mobilization. > >While it's popular to demonize Putin, I have not noticed him killing all >of his political opponents or otherwise acting in a dictatorial manner. >I am not privy to Chinese politics but the Chinese I know don't really >seem to have a problem with the government or the way it is selected. Putin was democratically elected, yes. So was a lot of other dictators. I would not call Russia in the 3rd term of Putin, after the Medvedjev intermesso, a democracy. China is outright a communist dictatorship. None of them are totalitarian, any longer (for China). But the boss (Putin or Xi(sp?)) is always right, making it pretty autoritarian by my standards. France has some good benchmarks for government standards, and you have to go back to the Terror to find anything badder. >> Of course, since in that case a draft wouldn't help, it's still not a true >> refutation of your point. >> >> John Savard Indeed. I would put doubts on the ability to handle Pakistan without scaling up radically, too. They have nukes, but only a few tens of them, small, unreliable ones. Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? -- mrr
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-03 12:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #161874 |
In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid says... > > In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, > >jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... > >> > >> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: > >> > >> > What countries under systems of dictatorship can, today, withstand the > >> > all-volunteer military of the United States of America? > >> > >> Let's see now: Russia and China, having strategic nuclear capability, and a > >> credible second-strike capability, could withstand _even_ such an enlarged U.S. > >> military as could be created by a general mobilization. > > > >While it's popular to demonize Putin, I have not noticed him killing all > >of his political opponents or otherwise acting in a dictatorial manner. > >I am not privy to Chinese politics but the Chinese I know don't really > >seem to have a problem with the government or the way it is selected. > > Putin was democratically elected, yes. So was a lot of other dictators. > I would not call Russia in the 3rd term of Putin, after the Medvedjev > intermesso, a democracy. > > China is outright a communist dictatorship. > > None of them are totalitarian, any longer (for China). But the boss > (Putin or Xi(sp?)) is always right, making it pretty autoritarian by > my standards. France has some good benchmarks for government standards, > and you have to go back to the Terror to find anything badder. The boss may always be right (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for life" or any such. He has this term and another one and then he has to sit it out for six years. As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. If he is he seems to be doing a good job for everybody involved. > >> Of course, since in that case a draft wouldn't help, it's still not a true > >> refutation of your point. > >> > >> John Savard > > Indeed. I would put doubts on the ability to handle Pakistan without > scaling up radically, too. They have nukes, but only a few tens of them, > small, unreliable ones. > > Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular but not in accordance with the fact. Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. It's kind of like beating the crap out of the school bully, then giving him your lunch money. However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is still having trouble with.
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| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 03:44 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161877 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > first@last.name.invalid says... >> >> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >> >In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >> >jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >> >> >> >> > What countries under systems of dictatorship can, today, withstand >> >> > the >> >> > all-volunteer military of the United States of America? >> >> >> >> Let's see now: Russia and China, having strategic nuclear capability, >> >> and a >> >> credible second-strike capability, could withstand _even_ such an >> >> enlarged U.S. >> >> military as could be created by a general mobilization. >> > >> >While it's popular to demonize Putin, I have not noticed him killing all >> >of his political opponents or otherwise acting in a dictatorial manner. >> >I am not privy to Chinese politics but the Chinese I know don't really >> >seem to have a problem with the government or the way it is selected. >> >> Putin was democratically elected, yes. So was a lot of other dictators. >> I would not call Russia in the 3rd term of Putin, after the Medvedjev >> intermesso, a democracy. >> >> China is outright a communist dictatorship. >> >> None of them are totalitarian, any longer (for China). But the boss >> (Putin or Xi(sp?)) is always right, making it pretty autoritarian by >> my standards. France has some good benchmarks for government standards, >> and you have to go back to the Terror to find anything badder. > > The boss may always be right Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress to do something the way he wants it done. > (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. > but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for > life" or any such. But does decide how things are done regardless of which role he technically holds at the time. He has this term and another one and then he has to > sit it out for six years. Or be Pres again. > As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that > most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi > is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. It was in Russia too towards the end. > If he is he seems to be doing > a good job for everybody involved. That just means that the communist party is currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >> >> Of course, since in that case a draft wouldn't help, it's still not a >> >> true >> >> refutation of your point. >> >> >> >> John Savard >> >> Indeed. I would put doubts on the ability to handle Pakistan without >> scaling up radically, too. They have nukes, but only a few tens of them, >> small, unreliable ones. >> >> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? > > The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. > The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular > but > not in accordance with the fact. The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. > Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese > forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and couldn't see any point in that. > The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This > is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a > power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. The real reason is that it was always a civil war and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. > In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. > It's kind of like beating the crap out of the > school bully, then giving him your lunch money. Nothing like in fact. The US never gave Vietnam anything once it gave up there. > However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from > conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is > still having trouble with. But didn't with Germany and Japan.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-03 20:23 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <fm38tc-m65.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #161896 |
In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >> first@last.name.invalid says... >>> >>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>> >jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>> >> >>> >> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>> >> >> >> The boss may always be right > >Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >to do something the way he wants it done. > >> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) > >But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. > >> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >> life" or any such. > >But does decide how things are done regardless >of which role he technically holds at the time. And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a democracy. >He has this term and another one and then he has to >> sit it out for six years. > >Or be Pres again. > >> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that >> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. > >It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. > >It was in Russia too towards the end. > >> If he is he seems to be doing >> a good job for everybody involved. > >That just means that the communist party is >currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. Amen. >>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >> >> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. > >It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight one for long without civilian support. >It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. > >> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >> but >> not in accordance with the fact. > >The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. > >> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. > >But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >couldn't see any point in that. Amen. >> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. > >The real reason is that it was always a civil war >and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. > >> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. > >There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. > >> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. > >Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >Vietnam anything once it gave up there. > >> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >> still having trouble with. > >But didn't with Germany and Japan. Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. -- mrr
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #161913 |
Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, > Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>> >>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>> The boss may always be right >> >> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >> to do something the way he wants it done. >> >>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >> >> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. >> >>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>> life" or any such. >> >> But does decide how things are done regardless >> of which role he technically holds at the time. > > And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready > to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. > > I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over > power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a > democracy. > >> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>> sit it out for six years. >> >> Or be Pres again. >> >>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that >>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >> >> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >> >> It was in Russia too towards the end. >> >>> If he is he seems to be doing >>> a good job for everybody involved. >> >> That just means that the communist party is >> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. > > Amen. > >>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>> >>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >> >> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. > > The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil > society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight > one for long without civilian support. > >> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >> >>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >>> but >>> not in accordance with the fact. >> >> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >> >>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >> >> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >> couldn't see any point in that. > > Amen. > >>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >> >> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >> >>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >> >> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >> >>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >> >> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >> >>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >>> still having trouble with. >> >> But didn't with Germany and Japan. > > Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. > > Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. > > These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant > part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the > reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in terms of politics and economics. -- Pete
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| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 05:50 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmdaguF8ma1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161917 |
"Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org... > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>> >>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> The boss may always be right >>> >>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>> >>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>> >>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. >>> >>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>> life" or any such. >>> >>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >> >> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >> >> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >> democracy. >> >>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>> sit it out for six years. >>> >>> Or be Pres again. >>> >>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know >>>> that >>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>> >>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>> >>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>> >>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>> >>> That just means that the communist party is >>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >> >> Amen. >> >>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>> >>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>> >>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >> >> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >> one for long without civilian support. >> >>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >>> >>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >>>> but >>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>> >>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >>> >>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>> >>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>> couldn't see any point in that. >> >> Amen. >> >>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>> >>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>> >>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>> >>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>> >>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>> >>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>> >>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >>>> still having trouble with. >>> >>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >> >> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally >> obliterated. >> >> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >> >> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >> significant >> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the >> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. > > This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was > communist Russisa, Neither was communist China. It certainly changed the way it did thing dramatically over time, but was never destroyed. > and they haven't been able to get things straightened out yet. Yes, and China has done a much better job of straightening things out for itself. > They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in > terms of politics and economics. Not really. There is nothing even remotely like the Czarist system. Putin certainly won't be replaced by any of his kids or even by his relatives.
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-03 19:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.316b76bd544e98a698a074@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #161917 |
In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... > > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > > In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, > > Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... > >>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >>> first@last.name.invalid says... > >>>> > >>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, > >>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: > >>>>>> > >>> > >>> The boss may always be right > >> > >> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress > >> to do something the way he wants it done. > >> > >>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) > >> > >> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right > >> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. > >> > >>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for > >>> life" or any such. > >> > >> But does decide how things are done regardless > >> of which role he technically holds at the time. > > > > And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready > > to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. > > > > I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over > > power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a > > democracy. > > > >> He has this term and another one and then he has to > >>> sit it out for six years. > >> > >> Or be Pres again. > >> > >>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that > >>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi > >>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. > >> > >> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. > >> > >> It was in Russia too towards the end. > >> > >>> If he is he seems to be doing > >>> a good job for everybody involved. > >> > >> That just means that the communist party is > >> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. > > > > Amen. > > > >>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? > >>> > >>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. > >> > >> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. > > > > The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil > > society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight > > one for long without civilian support. > > > >> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. > >> > >>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular > >>> but > >>> not in accordance with the fact. > >> > >> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done > >> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. > >> > >>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese > >>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. > >> > >> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters > >> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and > >> couldn't see any point in that. > > > > Amen. > > > >>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This > >>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a > >>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. > >> > >> The real reason is that it was always a civil war > >> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. > >> > >>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. > >> > >> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if > >> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. > >> > >>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the > >>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. > >> > >> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave > >> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. > >> > >>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from > >>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is > >>> still having trouble with. > >> > >> But didn't with Germany and Japan. > > > > Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. > > > > Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. > > > > These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant > > part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the > > reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. > > This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was > communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened > out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in > terms of politics and economics. What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 04:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0qydnZsnoM2Qf5zKnZ2dnUU78audnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #161938 |
On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- > yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >> >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>> >>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The boss may always be right >>>> >>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>> >>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>> >>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. >>>> >>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>> life" or any such. >>>> >>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>> >>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>> >>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>> democracy. >>> >>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>> >>>> Or be Pres again. >>>> >>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that >>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>> >>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>> >>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>> >>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>> >>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>> >>> Amen. >>> >>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>> >>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>> >>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>> >>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >>> one for long without civilian support. >>> >>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >>>> >>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >>>>> but >>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>> >>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >>>> >>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>> >>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>> >>> Amen. >>> >>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>> >>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>> >>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>> >>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>> >>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>> >>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>> >>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >>>>> still having trouble with. >>>> >>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>> >>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. >>> >>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>> >>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant >>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the >>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >> >> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was >> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened >> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >> terms of politics and economics. > > What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? > > Modernised. c/land/factory/ Pretty close.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 15:00 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmean5FfrspU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161962 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:0qydnZsnoM2Qf5zKnZ2dnUU78audnZ2d@giganews.com... > On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: >> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>> >>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>> >>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>> >>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>> >>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion >>>>> wise. >>>>> >>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>> >>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>> >>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>> >>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>> democracy. >>>> >>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>> >>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>> >>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know >>>>>> that >>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe >>>>>> Xi >>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>> >>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>> >>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>> >>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>> >>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>> >>>> Amen. >>>> >>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>> >>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>>> >>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>> >>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>> >>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >>>>> >>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is >>>>>> popular >>>>>> but >>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>> >>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >>>>> >>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>> >>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>> >>>> Amen. >>>> >>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". >>>>>> This >>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>> >>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>> >>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>> >>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>> >>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>> >>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>> >>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US >>>>>> is >>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>> >>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>> >>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally >>>> obliterated. >>>> >>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>> >>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >>>> significant >>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made >>>> the >>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >>> >>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was >>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened >>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>> terms of politics and economics. >> >> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >> >> > > Modernised. > > c/land/factory/ > > Pretty close. Nothing like it in fact. With a factory you are free to leave and work in a different one. Not so with serfs and slaves.
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 10:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <XZudnVGyh5YZr5_KnZ2dnUU78IednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #161964 |
On 04/04/2016 06:00, Thomas Johns wrote: > > > "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:0qydnZsnoM2Qf5zKnZ2dnUU78audnZ2d@giganews.com... >> On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: >>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>> >>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>> <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>>> >>>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>>> >>>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>>> >>>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion >>>>>> wise. >>>>>> >>>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>>> >>>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>>> >>>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>>> >>>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>>> democracy. >>>>> >>>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I >>>>>>> know that >>>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. >>>>>>> Maybe Xi >>>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>>> >>>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>>> >>>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>>> >>>>> Amen. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>>> >>>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >>>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>>> >>>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in >>>>>> Vietnam. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is >>>>>>> popular >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil >>>>>> war. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>>> >>>>> Amen. >>>>> >>>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>>> >>>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>>> >>>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>>> >>>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>>> >>>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the >>>>>>> US is >>>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>>> >>>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>>> >>>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were >>>>> literally obliterated. >>>>> >>>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>>> >>>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >>>>> significant >>>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war >>>>> made the >>>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >>>> >>>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed >>>> was >>>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things >>>> straightened >>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>>> terms of politics and economics. >>> >>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>> >>> >> >> Modernised. >> >> c/land/factory/ >> >> Pretty close. > > Nothing like it in fact. With a factory you are free to leave > and work in a different one. Not so with serfs and slaves. Do not confuse capitalist factories with communist factories.
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| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 19:57 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmes55Fk389U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161972 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:XZudnVGyh5YZr5_KnZ2dnUU78IednZ2d@giganews.com... > On 04/04/2016 06:00, Thomas Johns wrote: >> >> >> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >> news:0qydnZsnoM2Qf5zKnZ2dnUU78audnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: >>>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>>> >>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>> <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>> <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion >>>>>>> wise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>>>> democracy. >>>>>> >>>>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I >>>>>>>> know that >>>>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. >>>>>>>> Maybe Xi >>>>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amen. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>>>> >>>>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot >>>>>> fight >>>>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in >>>>>>> Vietnam. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is >>>>>>>> popular >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil >>>>>>> war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amen. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the >>>>>>>> US is >>>>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>>>> >>>>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were >>>>>> literally obliterated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>>>> >>>>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >>>>>> significant >>>>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war >>>>>> made the >>>>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >>>>> >>>>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed >>>>> was >>>>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things >>>>> straightened >>>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>>>> terms of politics and economics. >>>> >>>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Modernised. >>> >>> c/land/factory/ >>> >>> Pretty close. >> >> Nothing like it in fact. With a factory you are free to leave >> and work in a different one. Not so with serfs and slaves. > > Do not confuse capitalist factories with communist factories. The current factories in Russia aren't communist factories.
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 08:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnng4a4k.18p.mausg@Smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #161962 |
On 2016-04-04, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: >> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>> >>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>> terms of politics and economics. >> >> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >> >> > > Modernised. > > c/land/factory/ > > Pretty close. I know a chap who got a job in the US years ago, the terms of his visa were that he work for one company, the one who brought him over. "You are a serf!" "A well paid one" -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 19:53 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmerspFk1d9U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #161970 |
<mausg@mail.com> wrote in message news:slrnng4a4k.18p.mausg@Smaus.org... > On 2016-04-04, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >> On 04/04/2016 00:52, J. Clarke wrote: >>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>> >>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>>> terms of politics and economics. >>> >>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>> >>> >> >> Modernised. >> >> c/land/factory/ >> >> Pretty close. > > I know a chap who got a job in the US years ago, the terms of his visa > were that he work for one company, the one who brought him over. > > "You are a serf!" > > "A well paid one" Just more florid language. In practice he was free to go back where he came from if he didn’t like the detail. Slaves weren't.
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 21:14 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0739gb1f2k78h4gafi4brv9ikq9p59951s@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #161970 |
On 4 Apr 2016 08:41:14 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
[snip]
>I know a chap who got a job in the US years ago, the terms of his visa
>were that he work for one company, the one who brought him over.
>
>"You are a serf!"
>
>"A well paid one"
So do I: me. It was a TN visa.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #161938 |
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- > yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >> >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>> >>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The boss may always be right >>>> >>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>> >>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>> >>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. >>>> >>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>> life" or any such. >>>> >>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>> >>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>> >>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>> democracy. >>> >>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>> >>>> Or be Pres again. >>>> >>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that >>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>> >>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>> >>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>> >>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>> >>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>> >>> Amen. >>> >>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>> >>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>> >>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>> >>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >>> one for long without civilian support. >>> >>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >>>> >>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >>>>> but >>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>> >>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >>>> >>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>> >>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>> >>> Amen. >>> >>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>> >>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>> >>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>> >>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>> >>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>> >>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>> >>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >>>>> still having trouble with. >>>> >>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>> >>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. >>> >>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>> >>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant >>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the >>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >> >> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was >> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened >> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >> terms of politics and economics. > > What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? > > > I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got that way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. -- Pete
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.316cac122e34c398a081@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #161985 |
In article <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass- yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... > > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > > In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- > > yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... > >> > >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > >>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, > >>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... > >>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, > >>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The boss may always be right > >>>> > >>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress > >>>> to do something the way he wants it done. > >>>> > >>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) > >>>> > >>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right > >>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. > >>>> > >>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for > >>>>> life" or any such. > >>>> > >>>> But does decide how things are done regardless > >>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. > >>> > >>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready > >>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. > >>> > >>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over > >>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a > >>> democracy. > >>> > >>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to > >>>>> sit it out for six years. > >>>> > >>>> Or be Pres again. > >>>> > >>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that > >>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi > >>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. > >>>> > >>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. > >>>> > >>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. > >>>> > >>>>> If he is he seems to be doing > >>>>> a good job for everybody involved. > >>>> > >>>> That just means that the communist party is > >>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. > >>> > >>> Amen. > >>> > >>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? > >>>>> > >>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. > >>>> > >>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. > >>> > >>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil > >>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight > >>> one for long without civilian support. > >>> > >>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. > >>>> > >>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular > >>>>> but > >>>>> not in accordance with the fact. > >>>> > >>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done > >>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. > >>>> > >>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese > >>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. > >>>> > >>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters > >>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and > >>>> couldn't see any point in that. > >>> > >>> Amen. > >>> > >>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This > >>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a > >>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. > >>>> > >>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war > >>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. > >>>> > >>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. > >>>> > >>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if > >>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. > >>>> > >>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the > >>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. > >>>> > >>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave > >>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. > >>>> > >>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from > >>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is > >>>>> still having trouble with. > >>>> > >>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. > >>> > >>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. > >>> > >>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. > >>> > >>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant > >>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the > >>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. > >> > >> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was > >> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened > >> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in > >> terms of politics and economics. > > > > What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? > > > > > > > > I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got that > way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. And where did that industry come from?
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 11:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zPudnQSOEP5pD57KnZ2dnUU78c3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #162054 |
On 04/04/2016 22:52, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass- > yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >> >> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>> >>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In article <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>>> >>>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>>> >>>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>>> >>>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion wise. >>>>>> >>>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>>> >>>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>>> >>>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>>> >>>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>>> democracy. >>>>> >>>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know that >>>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. Maybe Xi >>>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>>> >>>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>>> >>>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>>> >>>>> Amen. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>>> >>>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot fight >>>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>>> >>>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in Vietnam. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is popular >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil war. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>>> >>>>> Amen. >>>>> >>>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". This >>>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>>> >>>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>>> >>>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>>> >>>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>>> >>>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US is >>>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>>> >>>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>>> >>>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were literally obliterated. >>>>> >>>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>>> >>>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any significant >>>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made the >>>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >>>> >>>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed was >>>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things straightened >>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>>> terms of politics and economics. >>> >>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>> >>> >>> >> >> I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got that >> way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. > > And where did that industry come from? > > The current Russian leadership inherited/took over the industry left by the communists and oil wells built by the West.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 14:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <i0pctc-32c.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #162105 |
In article <zPudnQSOEP5pD57KnZ2dnUU78c3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >On 04/04/2016 22:52, J. Clarke wrote: >> In article <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass- >> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>> [snip, russia, oligarchs etc] >>> >>> I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got that >>> way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. >> >> And where did that industry come from? >> >> >The current Russian leadership inherited/took over the industry left by >the communists and oil wells built by the West. The first round of oligarchs were the previous communist-appointed leadership of the factories, or other people who knew the operations well enough to take on a change management. They bid in some obscure tenders, often taking over for a rouble and keeping the debt payments. They were showing _massive_ losses, but they had been mismangaged by the apparatniks in Moscow. Grossly. Now they could operate more or less freely, and that changed the game completely. Suddenly they were showing profits. And the oligarchs got rich. VERY rich. A similar development was avoided in the old D'D'R (East Germany), by the treuhandanstalt, that nursed the old state infrastructure back to health _before_ selling it off. It took around 20 years. -- mrr
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| From | "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 04:04 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dmid1sFh98oU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #162105 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:zPudnQSOEP5pD57KnZ2dnUU78c3NnZ2d@giganews.com... > On 04/04/2016 22:52, J. Clarke wrote: >> In article <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass- >> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>> >>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>>> >>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>> <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>> <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does invasion >>>>>>> wise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>>>> democracy. >>>>>> >>>>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I know >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. >>>>>>>> Maybe Xi >>>>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amen. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet Nam. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>>>> >>>>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot >>>>>> fight >>>>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in >>>>>>> Vietnam. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is >>>>>>>> popular >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were done >>>>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that civil >>>>>>> war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amen. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the country". >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it created a >>>>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that the US >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>>>> >>>>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were >>>>>> literally obliterated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>>>> >>>>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >>>>>> significant >>>>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war made >>>>>> the >>>>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of them. >>>>> >>>>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't destroyed >>>>> was >>>>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things >>>>> straightened >>>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist days in >>>>> terms of politics and economics. >>>> >>>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got that >>> way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. >> >> And where did that industry come from? >> >> > The current Russian leadership inherited/took over the industry left by > the communists That mangles the real story of where they ended up. > and oil wells built by the West. The oil wells weren't built by the West.
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 22:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <B5SdnROJiuuVrpnKnZ2dnUU78SWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #162137 |
On 05/04/2016 19:04, Thomas Johns wrote: > > > "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:zPudnQSOEP5pD57KnZ2dnUU78c3NnZ2d@giganews.com... >> On 04/04/2016 22:52, J. Clarke wrote: >>> In article <205609401.481466171.865705.peter_flass- >>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>> >>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> In article <91693756.481402945.423401.peter_flass- >>>>> yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, peter_flass@yahoo.com says... >>>>>> >>>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> In article <dmd33sF6p00U1@mid.individual.net>, >>>>>>> Thomas Johns <TJzz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:MPG.316b08738c44217098a06c@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>>> In article <qvo7tc-jo3.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>> <MPG.316aec36238593ed98a06a@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>>> <74c6d653-7e69-4da0-9ae0-1d764b7d8ea0@googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>>> jsavard@ecn.ab.ca says... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:40:40 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The boss may always be right >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not in the US system if he can't convince Congress >>>>>>>> to do something the way he wants it done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (Obama seems to think that he is always right too) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But doesn't get to force the country to do what he decides is right >>>>>>>> on anything at all, not even with what the military does >>>>>>>> invasion wise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> but can he fail of re-election? Putin is not "president for >>>>>>>>> life" or any such. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But does decide how things are done regardless >>>>>>>> of which role he technically holds at the time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And if/when he dies there are lots of oligarchs that are ready >>>>>>> to take over. This will probably be bloody, but swift. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have faith in Russia's current rulers handing over >>>>>>> power peacefully. Which is one of the acid tests on a >>>>>>> democracy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He has this term and another one and then he has to >>>>>>>>> sit it out for six years. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or be Pres again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the Chinese, I know the high school version of it and I >>>>>>>>> know that >>>>>>>>> most of what I learned about politics in high school is crap. >>>>>>>>> Maybe Xi >>>>>>>>> is an absolute dictator, maybe he isn't. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's the communist party that is the dictator in China. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was in Russia too towards the end. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If he is he seems to be doing >>>>>>>>> a good job for everybody involved. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That just means that the communist party is >>>>>>>> currently a quite effective dictator. So is Putin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Or Viet Nam. Remember that one? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The current US military would be quite adequate to handle Viet >>>>>>>>> Nam. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would fail in precisely the same way it failed there last time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The defeat there was not primarily by the military, it was the civil >>>>>>> society that cut support for the war, and the US military cannot >>>>>>> fight >>>>>>> one for long without civilian support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It has done even worse in Iraq and Afghanistan than it did in >>>>>>>> Vietnam. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The notion that it was the result of failure of the military is >>>>>>>>> popular >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> not in accordance with the fact. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The fact is that the US failed to get to decide how things were >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>> there and the side it supported in that civil war lost that >>>>>>>> civil war. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Even the general commanding the North Vietnamese >>>>>>>>> forces admits that when the US pulled out, he was beaten. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But the US pulled out anyway, essentially because the voters >>>>>>>> were sick of the involvement of the US in that civil war and >>>>>>>> couldn't see any point in that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The usual rejoinder to this is "but they still have the >>>>>>>>> country". This >>>>>>>>> is true, but the reason is that when the US pulled out it >>>>>>>>> created a >>>>>>>>> power vacuum that the North Vietnamese were able to fill. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The real reason is that it was always a civil war >>>>>>>> and the US backed the side that lost that civil war. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In other words, Nixon pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There never would have been any 'victory' for the US if >>>>>>>> he hadn't. The civil war would have continued anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's kind of like beating the crap out of the >>>>>>>>> school bully, then giving him your lunch money. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing like in fact. The US never gave >>>>>>>> Vietnam anything once it gave up there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However garrisoning an occupied state is a different task from >>>>>>>>> conquering it in the first place, and that is the thing that >>>>>>>>> the US is >>>>>>>>> still having trouble with. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But didn't with Germany and Japan. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Germany and Japan were not just defeated. Their military were >>>>>>> literally obliterated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Look at pictures of Berlin or Hiroshima 1945. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These were also two of the worst regimes that have ever ruled any >>>>>>> significant >>>>>>> part of the planet. Exposing that and the total loss of the war >>>>>>> made the >>>>>>> reconstruction easier. But it took a decade or more for each of >>>>>>> them. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a good point. The one terrible regime that wasn't >>>>>> destroyed was >>>>>> communist Russisa, and they haven't been able to get things >>>>>> straightened >>>>>> out yet. They're basically back to where they were in Czarist >>>>>> days in >>>>>> terms of politics and economics. >>>>> >>>>> What, you mean that workers belong to the land and get sold with it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> I mean that the industry is owned by a very few rich people who got >>>> that >>>> way thru political connections rather than any particular competence. >>> >>> And where did that industry come from? >>> >>> >> The current Russian leadership inherited/took over the industry left >> by the communists > > That mangles the real story of where they ended up. > >> and oil wells built by the West. > > The oil wells weren't built by the West. BP is a western company. It drilled oil wells in Russia after the Wall came down. They have ended under Russian Government control.
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