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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #160026 > unrolled thread

Re: Qbasic

Started byAndrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com>
First post2016-02-21 09:13 +0000
Last post2016-02-27 10:17 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 778 — 45 participants

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Contents

  Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-21 09:13 +0000
    Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 03:23 +1100
      Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-21 17:38 +0000
        Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-21 17:59 +0000
        Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 07:41 +1100
          Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-22 01:21 +0000
            Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 14:00 +1100
            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-22 15:48 -0600
              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-22 16:43 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-22 20:49 -0600
    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-24 18:15 -0600
      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-24 17:59 -0700
        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-24 19:30 -0600
          Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 18:20 -0600
        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-24 17:58 -0800
          Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 14:38 +1100
          Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 05:25 -0500
            Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-25 10:22 -0500
            Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 04:31 +1100
            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-25 15:53 -0800
              Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 21:41 -0500
                Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 14:55 +1100
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-25 20:18 -0800
                  Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 05:23 -0500
                    Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-26 12:15 +0100
                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:24 -0800
                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:14 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-25 23:34 -0600
                  Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 05:38 -0500
                    Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-26 15:46 +0000
                    Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-26 10:14 -0600
                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-26 11:20 -0700
                        Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-26 14:15 -0500
                          Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-26 14:23 -0600
                            Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-26 15:50 -0500
                              Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 10:46 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-28 14:40 -0500
                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 18:25 -0600
                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 16:40 -0800
                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 06:47 -0700
                              Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 08:32 -0600
                              Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-01 10:39 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 12:23 -0800
                                  Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 14:27 -0700
                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 15:58 -0800
                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-02 07:22 -0700
                                        Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 04:03 +1100
                                    Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-02 13:52 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-02 13:56 -0600
                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-26 12:51 -0600
                      Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-02-26 23:12 -0500
                        Re: Qbasic Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-02-27 09:17 +0000
                          Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-02-27 14:37 -0500
                            Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-27 17:08 -0800
                            Re: Qbasic Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-02-28 09:57 +0000
                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-28 15:56 +0100
                                Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-28 19:00 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-02-29 22:14 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-01 22:26 +0000
                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-02 12:26 +0000
                                Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-02 13:46 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-02 21:09 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-03 05:33 +0000
                                Re: Qbasic Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-02 19:28 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-02 15:45 -0800
                                  Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-02 16:27 -0800
                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-03 01:02 -0800
                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-16 17:59 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-17 10:42 -0700
                          Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-27 19:43 +0000
                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:21 -0800
                      Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-27 20:19 +0100
                  Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-26 08:27 -0600
                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:25 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 09:30 -0600
            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-27 15:00 -0600
              Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 13:52 -0800
              Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-27 17:16 -0600
              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-27 18:22 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-27 17:12 -0800
                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-27 20:23 -0600
                    Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-28 05:43 -0800
                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 03:34 +1100
                        Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-28 08:41 -0800
                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-28 11:16 -0600
                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-28 14:57 -0600
                            Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 09:55 +1100
                              Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-29 09:25 +0000
                                Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-29 09:46 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 09:22 -0600
                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-29 16:17 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 09:58 +0000
                                      Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:17 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 08:59 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 20:25 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 04:38 +1100
                                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 10:14 +0000
                                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:20 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 09:01 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 20:35 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 04:35 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-07 18:19 -0500
                                  Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-08 00:48 +0000
                          Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 09:49 +1100
                            Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-29 16:12 +0000
                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-29 10:46 -0600
                              Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 12:49 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 11:03 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-29 14:51 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 15:56 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 10:26 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 08:30 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-01 12:28 -0600
                                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 09:10 +0000
                                      Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-03 10:36 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-29 17:35 +0000
                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-28 18:41 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-27 20:12 -0600
        Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 18:18 -0600
          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-26 03:28 -0700
            Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-26 15:48 +0000
              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-26 11:20 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-26 14:09 -0500
                  Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-27 03:15 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 09:22 +1100
                Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-27 03:13 -0600
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:28 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-28 12:59 +0000
                  Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 03:32 +1100
                    Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-28 08:40 -0800
                      Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-28 14:36 -0500
                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-28 18:06 -0700
                          Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-28 20:27 -0500
                        Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-28 20:22 -0800
                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:38 +1100
                            Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 05:40 +0000
                              Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-29 06:42 +0000
                                Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-07 18:35 -0500
                                  Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 13:00 +1100
                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 18:54 +1100
                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-29 10:51 +0100
                                Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-29 16:05 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-28 22:06 -0800
                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 19:01 +1100
                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-29 08:58 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 05:01 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 10:46 -0800
                                  Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 10:24 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-01 10:12 -0800
                                      Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 05:59 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-29 14:59 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 16:06 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 09:12 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 10:37 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:24 +1100
                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-01 12:18 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 06:04 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 09:08 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-03 11:33 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-03 11:46 -0700
                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-13 11:25 -0700
                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 09:47 +1100
                    Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-28 10:58 -0600
                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 09:51 +1100
                        Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-29 16:01 +0000
                    Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 04:17 +0000
                      Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-28 20:38 -0800
                        Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:44 +1100
                          Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 05:46 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 18:59 +1100
                        Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-29 09:56 +0000
                      Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-28 22:53 -0600
                        Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 05:35 +0000
                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-29 06:44 -0600
                            Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-29 14:02 +0100
                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 04:51 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 11:36 -0700
                                  Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 08:58 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-01 10:20 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 06:47 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-01 10:16 -0800
                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 12:28 -0800
                                          Re: Qbasic Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-03-01 21:03 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:23 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 18:02 -0600
                                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 11:18 +1100
                                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-02 12:19 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-01 15:14 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:24 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 15:53 -0800
                                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:13 +1100
                                          Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 09:15 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 20:38 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-09 12:38 -0800
                                              Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-09 19:15 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-10 05:06 -0800
                                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-10 09:35 -0600
                                                    Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-10 07:42 -0800
                                                  Re: Qbasic "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 04:14 +1100
                                              Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-10 15:52 -0600
                                        Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-02 14:19 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-02 07:23 -0700
                                            Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-03 13:39 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-02 07:29 -0800
                                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 04:04 +1100
                                              Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-02 12:50 -0500
                                                Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 11:55 +1100
                                                  Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-03 13:39 +0000
                                                    Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 03:37 +1100
                                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-02 19:40 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-03 13:39 +0000
                                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 03:34 +1100
                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-03 11:46 -0700
                                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-03 11:47 -0800
                                                  Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-03 22:07 +0000
                                                  Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-03 17:04 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 13:16 +1100
                                          Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-02 15:54 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 03:44 +1100
                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-02 16:59 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-02 15:08 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 12:19 -0800
                                        Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:11 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 08:56 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:21 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-01 10:57 -0600
                                        Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 05:56 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-03 09:01 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 20:37 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-01 13:55 +0000
                                    Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:28 +1100
                              Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 10:41 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 14:16 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 16:24 -0800
                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-21 14:41 -0500
                                      Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-03-21 20:42 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-21 13:55 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 13:16 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-21 17:00 -0500
                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-21 17:12 -0700
                                            Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-21 18:44 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-21 21:06 -0700
                                                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-24 23:13 -0700
                                            Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 13:25 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-21 23:36 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 12:56 +0100
                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-22 13:11 +0000
                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 13:33 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 10:32 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-22 10:06 -0700
                                                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-22 17:38 +0000
                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 13:10 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-22 19:41 +0000
                                                Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 05:09 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-23 17:00 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 11:09 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-25 08:50 -0400
                                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-25 10:00 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 14:34 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-24 12:58 -0700
                              Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 14:01 -0600
                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-29 16:07 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-29 16:39 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 10:49 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 10:41 +1100
                      Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-29 10:26 -0500
                        Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 17:38 +0000
                          Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-29 12:56 -0500
                            Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 18:01 +0000
                          Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 10:53 -0800
                            Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-29 19:21 +0000
                              Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-02-29 20:19 +0000
                                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-29 20:32 +0000
                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-01 16:18 -0600
                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-02 14:25 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-02 16:51 -0600
                                        Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 12:17 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-10 09:48 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-10 13:29 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-10 18:27 -0600
                                              Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-10 20:14 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-11 11:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-11 10:09 -0600
                                                    Re: Qbasic Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 11:21 -0500
                                                      Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-11 10:28 -0800
                                                        Re: Qbasic Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 16:12 -0500
                                                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-11 19:42 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-10 16:58 -0800
                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-02 17:35 -0700
                                        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-03 00:51 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 18:59 +1100
                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-03 10:48 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-16 20:52 -0400
                                    Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-16 18:11 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-16 20:52 -0500
                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-29 16:26 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-01 13:52 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:10 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-01 15:44 -0800
                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-01 13:36 -0600
                        Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-01 12:55 -0800
                          Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:21 +1100
                          Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-02 08:01 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-02 11:57 -0800
                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-02 15:13 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-02 17:32 -0600
                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-02 13:36 -0600
                            Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-02 19:44 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-02 12:14 -0800
                              Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-02 14:43 -0600
                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-02 18:06 -0800
                                Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 10:44 -0600
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-03 11:23 -0600
                                    Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 15:03 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-03 14:04 -0800
                                        Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 17:04 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-03 16:16 -0800
                                            Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-11 17:02 -0800
                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-03 17:04 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 19:01 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-04 09:47 -0600
                                        Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-04 11:25 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-04 12:32 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-04 12:34 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-04 12:08 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 16:02 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-04 10:54 -0800
                                          Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-04 20:36 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-05 15:41 -0600
                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 14:12 +0000
                                                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-07 10:28 -0600
                                                  Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 17:34 +0000
                                                    Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-07 14:42 -0600
                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 21:28 +0000
                                                        Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-07 22:37 -0600
                                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-08 09:16 -0600
                                                            Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-08 09:22 -0600
                                                              Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-16 20:45 -0400
                                                            Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-08 17:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-08 10:38 -0700
                                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-08 22:11 -0600
                                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-08 09:10 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 10:38 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 13:07 -0500
                                                    Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-07 11:27 -0800
                                                      Re: Trump vs. Hillary Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 13:35 -0700
                                                        Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 16:28 -0500
                                                          Re: Trump vs. Hillary Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-07 14:05 -0800
                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-07 14:28 -0800
                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 17:37 -0500
                                                              Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-07 16:10 -0800
                                                                Re: Trump vs. Hillary Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 18:30 -0700
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-07 18:00 -0800
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 22:07 -0500
                                                                    Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-07 20:06 -0800
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-16 20:39 -0400
                                                          Re: Trump vs. Hillary Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 18:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 20:23 -0600
                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 22:17 -0500
                                                              Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-07 20:15 -0800
                                                                Re: Trump vs. Hillary "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-08 08:13 -0600
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-08 07:24 -0700
                                                                    Re: Trump vs. Hillary Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-08 08:53 -0600
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-08 10:58 -0600
                                                                  Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-08 15:34 -0800
                                                                    Re: Trump vs. Hillary scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-09 14:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: Trump vs. Hillary "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-09 10:05 -0600
                                                                      Re: Trump vs. Hillary hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-09 09:41 -0800
                                                                      Re: Trump vs. Hillary "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:57 +1100
                                                                        Re: Trump vs. Hillary Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-09 21:11 +0000
                                                                          Re: Trump vs. Hillary "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-09 15:23 -0600
                                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-10 17:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Trump vs. Hillary scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 21:31 +0000
                                                          Re: Trump vs. Hillary Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 18:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Trump vs. Hillary Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-07 22:25 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 18:33 +0000
                                                  Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 18:38 +0000
                                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 13:35 -0700
                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 21:24 +0000
                                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-07 12:59 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-08 08:44 -0600
                                                  Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-08 09:19 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-05 15:29 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-07 14:21 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 15:45 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-06 17:52 -0800
                                            Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 13:42 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 10:11 -0600
                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-07 13:04 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-07 13:35 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 10:31 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-03 19:28 -0600
                                    Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 13:19 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-03 11:04 -0600
                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-02 17:35 -0700
                                Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 12:20 +1100
                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-16 22:40 -0500
                                  Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-16 09:44 -0700
                                    Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-16 12:10 -0600
                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-16 19:53 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-16 17:01 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-17 07:39 -0500
                                        Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-18 12:42 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic "Jim Bank" <jb410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 09:02 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-18 12:45 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-18 10:52 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-19 13:23 +0000
                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-17 07:41 -0500
                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-16 11:54 -0500
                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-18 12:55 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-18 15:42 -0600
                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-18 17:54 -0500
                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-18 17:47 -0700
                                            Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-18 19:57 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-03-18 21:09 -0400
                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-20 12:55 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-20 14:39 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-21 07:53 +0000
                                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-21 12:00 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-21 20:48 -0400
                                        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-19 12:56 -0500
                                          Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-19 17:07 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-20 03:35 +0000
                                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 07:45 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-20 06:09 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 09:16 -0600
                                                    Re: Qbasic "John Akers" <ja5443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 04:41 +1100
                                                      Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 13:21 -0600
                                                        Re: Qbasic "John Akers" <ja5443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 08:09 +1100
                                                        Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-20 16:37 -0500
                                                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-20 17:02 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 18:04 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2016-03-21 15:57 +0000
                                                  Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-21 11:24 -0600
                                                    Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 16:51 +0000
                                                      Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-21 17:43 +0000
                                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-21 12:55 -0500
                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 14:03 -0700
                                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-22 16:26 -0500
                                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-23 07:00 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 13:56 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-21 10:56 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-21 11:14 -0700
                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 14:07 -0700
                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-22 17:08 -0700
                                                          Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-23 10:08 -0700
                                                      Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-13 07:57 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-21 19:45 +0000
                                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-21 13:51 -0700
                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-22 13:13 +0000
                                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-22 07:27 -0700
                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-22 07:31 -0700
                                                            Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-22 08:31 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-21 20:17 +0100
                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-21 12:42 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 13:33 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 15:58 -0600
                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-22 16:28 -0500
                                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-19 13:12 -0500
                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-19 16:48 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-03-20 00:37 +0000
                                          Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-20 12:57 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 13:05 -0600
                                            Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-03-20 12:43 -0600
                                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-20 14:04 -0600
                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-20 19:06 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-21 12:04 -0500
                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-20 16:52 -0500
                                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-20 19:06 -0700
                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-21 12:06 -0500
                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-21 13:51 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-21 19:03 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 12:04 -0500
                                                    Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 12:17 -0600
                                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-22 12:40 -0500
                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-22 17:43 +0000
                                                        Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 12:55 -0600
                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-22 11:20 -0700
                                                          Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 14:00 -0600
                                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 14:32 -0500
                                                              Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 06:53 +1100
                                                              Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 15:03 -0600
                                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 19:34 -0500
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-22 17:57 -0700
                                                              Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-22 21:47 +0000
                                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-23 18:34 -0500
                                                                  Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 14:39 +1100
                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-23 07:00 -0700
                                                            Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-23 09:40 -0500
                                                              Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-23 16:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-23 17:36 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-23 18:08 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 07:30 +1100
                                                            Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-23 15:16 -0500
                                                              Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 07:51 +1100
                                                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-24 01:14 +0100
                                                                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-23 22:36 -0500
                                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-23 19:02 -0700
                                                                Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 14:29 +1100
                                                                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-24 13:03 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-25 12:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-25 09:22 -0500
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 04:03 +1100
                                                                      Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 13:24 +0000
                                                                        Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:14 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 12:00 -0700
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 07:55 +0100
                                                                            Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-29 13:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last,name.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:12 +0200
                                                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-29 09:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 05:43 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 05:39 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 17:26 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 09:56 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:29 +1100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-30 10:01 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 23:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 06:15 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 12:14 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 07:08 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-30 15:04 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:17 -0500
                                                                                Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 05:37 +1100
                                                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 15:54 +0000
                                                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-29 09:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 17:59 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-29 17:08 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 12:17 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-30 11:01 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-30 15:13 -0600
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 08:14 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 15:53 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-31 09:40 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 20:02 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic pechter@cobalt.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-04-01 16:02 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-01 12:27 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-31 09:40 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 20:52 -0500
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-29 14:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 20:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 09:41 +1100
                                                                                Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-30 10:15 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-30 15:17 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 08:07 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-31 09:40 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:22 +1100
                                                                                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-30 16:05 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:45 +1100
                                                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-29 17:06 -0500
                                                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-29 17:22 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-29 22:04 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 17:29 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 12:19 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 19:52 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-02 13:12 -0700
                                                                                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 15:16 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:58 +1100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 19:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 07:13 +1100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 09:15 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 21:19 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-31 11:23 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:38 +1100
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-31 12:33 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-31 12:16 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:00 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-31 12:41 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-31 13:10 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-31 11:27 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:39 +1100
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 20:55 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:11 +1100
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 12:20 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-03-30 11:48 -0600
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 15:56 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 08:11 +1100
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-31 16:41 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 07:10 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-31 09:40 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-30 16:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:14 +0000
                                                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 17:45 +0000
                                                                                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 23:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:19 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 19:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-02 13:24 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 08:39 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 13:47 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 10:48 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 14:49 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 18:38 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-09 18:23 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 14:49 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 20:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:03 +1000
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 10:45 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 14:45 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:34 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-05 13:10 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-05 10:16 -0500
                                                                    Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 04:05 +1100
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-25 12:15 -0600
                                                                    Re: Qbasic greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2016-03-26 11:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-26 12:43 -0500
                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 11:55 -0700
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-28 12:24 -0700
                                                                          Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-29 07:31 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-29 07:24 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-28 15:53 -0600
                                                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-28 21:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-25 22:48 +0000
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-26 07:04 +0000
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:18 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-26 17:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-26 19:50 +0000
                                                                            Re: Qbasic greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2016-03-26 20:22 +0000
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-03-27 04:34 -0300
                                                                                Re: Qbasic greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2016-03-27 09:18 +0000
                                                                                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-27 17:45 +0000
                                                                            Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-27 13:28 +0000
                                                                              Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 04:21 +1100
                                                                    Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 13:24 +0000
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:17 +1100
                                                                      Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-26 12:47 -0500
                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 11:50 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 11:48 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 07:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-24 09:41 -0500
                                                                  Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-24 09:52 -0600
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-24 10:18 -0500
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-24 10:39 -0600
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-24 09:21 -0700
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-24 10:37 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-24 11:04 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-24 14:19 -0700
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-11 23:00 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-24 13:25 -0500
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-25 07:15 +1100
                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-24 13:35 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-25 05:26 +1100
                                                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-24 13:20 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2016-03-25 12:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 04:09 +1100
                                                                  Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-24 13:12 -0700
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-03-27 04:43 -0300
                                                                    Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-27 13:26 +0000
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 04:45 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-27 13:02 -0500
                                                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-27 19:11 +0000
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-27 15:25 -0700
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-27 15:40 -0700
                                                                            Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-27 17:40 -0500
                                                                              Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 11:10 +1100
                                                                            Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 11:08 +1100
                                                                            Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-28 09:39 +0000
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-27 11:15 -0700
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-27 12:02 -0700
                                                                          Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 07:32 +1100
                                                                          Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-27 17:48 -0500
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-27 15:53 -0700
                                                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-28 13:29 -0500
                                                                                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-28 12:50 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-29 07:34 +1100
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-28 21:12 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 13:11 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 14:47 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 15:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-29 17:15 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-29 17:17 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 06:15 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-30 12:22 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-31 09:40 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-01 05:25 +1100
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 20:08 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 20:57 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-01 07:39 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-01 09:14 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-01 13:51 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-02 06:23 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-02 08:33 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:27 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 20:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-27 17:45 -0700
                                                                              Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-28 13:30 -0500
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-27 13:12 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-03-27 18:31 -0300
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-27 16:32 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-28 09:30 +0000
                                                                        Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 04:17 +1100
                                                                      Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-28 04:57 -0700
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-28 12:50 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 04:30 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 10:55 -0400
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 11:01 -0700
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 19:43 +0100
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:31 +0200
                                                                            Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:15 -0500
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 00:42 +0200
                                                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 11:41 -0700
                                                                        Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-29 07:20 +1100
                                                                        Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-28 14:56 -0700
                                                                    Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-28 11:30 -0700
                                                                      Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-03-28 12:20 -0700
                                                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-29 17:11 -0700
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-29 20:33 -0500
                                                                            Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-30 10:18 +0000
                                                                            Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 06:15 -0700
                                                                              Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-30 16:07 +0000
                                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 06:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 15:14 +0000
                                                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 09:15 -0700
                                                              Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-23 19:58 -0700
                                                        Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 06:45 +1100
                                                          Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-03-22 15:07 -0600
                                                            Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 07:20 +1100
                                                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-22 13:24 -0500
                                                        Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-22 19:50 +0000
                                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-23 11:05 +0000
                                                            Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-23 09:41 -0500
                                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-23 17:12 -0700
                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-24 06:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-24 10:07 -0500
                                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-24 10:37 -0700
                                                                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-24 14:03 -0500
                                                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-24 14:46 -0500
                                                                    Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-24 16:59 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-21 13:59 -0500
                                                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 14:23 -0700
                                                  Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-25 13:57 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-22 13:54 -0700
                                        Re: Qbasic Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-03-21 17:46 -0400
                                          Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-22 11:31 +0000
                                            Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:15 +0100
                                            Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 04:48 +1100
                                  Re: Qbasic "Jim Bank" <jb410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-17 07:37 +1100
                                    Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-16 18:55 -0700
                                      Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-16 21:04 -0500
                                      Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-17 13:48 +1100
                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-17 00:49 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-17 09:28 +0100
                                          Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-17 10:45 -0500
                                          Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-18 08:16 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-17 12:58 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-17 06:55 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-18 13:08 -0700
                                            Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 09:22 +1100
                                            Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-18 18:12 -0500
                                              Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-18 17:47 -0700
                                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-18 20:00 -0500
                                                  Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-19 07:28 -0700
                                                    Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 13:50 +0000
                                                      Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-21 13:51 -0700
                                                        Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-22 13:12 +0000
                                                          Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-22 07:27 -0700
                                                            Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-22 17:35 +0000
                                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-22 17:44 +0000
                                                            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-23 17:07 -0700
                                                              Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-24 13:05 +0000
                                        Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-18 13:04 -0700
                                          Re: Qbasic "hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 09:21 +1100
                                      Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-18 12:59 -0700
                                Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-16 23:00 -0500
                              Re: Qbasic "Sangmo" <ju410@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 12:10 +1100
                        Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 10:07 +1100
                        Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-03-04 21:45 -0800
                          Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-03-05 10:50 +0000
                            Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-03-06 13:52 -0800
                    Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-29 09:04 +0000
                      Re: Qbasic "Alexis" <ggyy@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 04:32 +1100
              Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 10:39 -0600
            Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-26 11:59 -0500
            Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-27 10:17 -0800

Page 25 of 39 — ← Prev page 1 … 23 24 [25] 26 27 … 39  Next page →


#161369

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2016-03-22 14:32 -0500
Message-ID<ncs6et$tdj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#161368
On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my thinking.

If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you, and in theory, you voted
for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.

> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and vote
> for the least harmful candidate.

IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the other
guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp, but both
Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of people who
_do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the lesser evil.

IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the
inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.  We would need to
change our entire election system to fix that problem, and neither of
our major parties thinks it's in their interests to do so.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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#161374

From"hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-23 06:53 +1100
Message-ID<dldm6dF6r80U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161369

"Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote in message 
news:ncs6et$tdj$1@dont-email.me...
> On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
>> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my thinking.
>
> If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you,

Even sillier than you usually manage.

and in theory, you voted
> for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.

Even sillier than you usually manage. Many
vote for those they disagree with the least or
who they think are less likely to do any harm.

>> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and vote
>> for the least harmful candidate.
>
> IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the other
> guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp,

So your previous has blown up in your face and
covered you in black stuff in a single post of yours.

but both
> Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of people who
> _do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the lesser evil.

Irrelevant to how he votes.

> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the
> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.  We would need to
> change our entire election system to fix that problem,

But get a much worse problem instead, that those with
opinions that are only supported by single digit percentages
of the voters get far more say on what happens than the number
who vote for them justifies, because they end up with the balance
of power between the major parties.

And you inevitably end up with fragile coalitions with
those microparties and one or other of the majors.

and neither of
> our major parties thinks it's in their interests to do so.
 

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#161375

From"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
Date2016-03-22 15:03 -0600
Message-ID<dldmogF700nU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161369
"Stephen Sprunk" wrote:

> On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
>> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my thinking.
>
> If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you, and in theory, you voted
> for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.
>
>> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and vote
>> for the least harmful candidate.
>
> IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the other
> guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp, but both
> Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of people who
> _do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the lesser evil.
>
> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the
> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.  We would need to
> change our entire election system to fix that problem, and neither of
> our major parties thinks it's in their interests to do so.

YES!  I prefer ranked choice voting.  But we haven't got a snowballs chance 
of getting it.

Look at the 1992 results:

· Bill Clinton 43%
· GWH Bush 37%
· Ross Perot 19%

People disliked Bush, voted for Perot and got Clinton.

I suspect that is how Teddy Roosevelt put Wilson into power, too, with his 
"bull Moose" party

Anyone, of either party,  who knows about 1992 is unlikely to ever vote for 
a third party candidate ever again. 

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#161392

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2016-03-22 19:34 -0500
Message-ID<ncso55$1p3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#161375
On 22-Mar-16 16:03, Osmium wrote:
> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the 
>> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.  We would need to 
>> change our entire election system to fix that problem, and neither
>> of our major parties thinks it's in their interests to do so.
> 
> YES!  I prefer ranked choice voting.  But we haven't got a snowballs
> chance of getting it.
> 
> Look at the 1992 results:
> 
> · Bill Clinton 43%
> · GWH Bush 37%
> · Ross Perot 19%
> 
> People disliked Bush, voted for Perot and got Clinton.

Yes, but Clinton turned out to be a pretty good President.

> I suspect that is how Teddy Roosevelt put Wilson into power, too,
> with his "bull Moose" party

It was later revealed that Wilson's people had encouraged Teddy to
run--with that exact result in mind.

Trump has admitted that Hillary suggested he run; draw your own
conclusions from there.

> Anyone, of either party,  who knows about 1992 is unlikely to ever
> vote for a third party candidate ever again.

There are folks who think Nader split off enough of Gore's voters in
2000 to let Dubya win; then again, Gore actually _did_ win Florida in
the recount--after SCOTUS had already declared Dubya the winner.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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#161393

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2016-03-22 17:57 -0700
Message-ID<c7e30b7e-9dd6-485a-8af3-1592fe5ef7aa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#161392
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 6:34:44 PM UTC-6, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

> Trump has admitted that Hillary suggested he run; draw your own
> conclusions from there.

Obviously Hillary couldn't have foreseen the consequences of a Trump bid for the 
Republican nomination... had she come up with the idea herself, it would just 
have been to suggest that he try politics himself to see it's no bed of roses.

Oh, no: if there was a plot to destroy the Republican party and ensure a 
Hillary Clinton presidency, it must have come from a much higher source - the 
Secret International Cabal must have given the suggestion to Hillary Clinton!

The same organization that made the stock market crash in 2008 so that Obama 
would become President!

John Savard

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#161390

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-03-22 21:47 +0000
Message-ID<ncsei802t5m@news4.newsguy.com>
In reply to#161369
On 2016-03-22, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:

> On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
>
>> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my thinking.
>
> If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you, and in theory, you voted
> for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.

They speak for me by definition, perhaps, but this is different from
them sharing my beliefs.  Remember that in politics, words have different
meanings than they do in the real world.  The word "represent", for
instance, is a political buzzword meaning "to rule over".

>> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and vote
>> for the least harmful candidate.
>
> IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the other
> guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp, but both
> Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of people who
> _do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the lesser evil.

The number of people who support Trump is (IMHO) scarier than what he
stands for - and that's scary enough.

> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the
> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.

Not inevitable.  We have multiple parties here in Canada.  The effect
of first-past-the-post voting is that all but the top two parties are
marginalized.

> We would need to change our entire election system to fix that problem,
> and neither of our major parties thinks it's in their interests to do so.

Changing our electoral system was one of the planks in Justin Trudeau's
campaign.  Time will show us whether he remembers that.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#161425

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2016-03-23 18:34 -0500
Message-ID<ncv90n$eu7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#161390
On 22-Mar-16 16:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2016-03-22, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>> On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
>>> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my
>>> thinking.
>> 
>> If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you, and in theory, you
>> voted for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.
> 
> They speak for me by definition, perhaps, but this is different from 
> them sharing my beliefs.  Remember that in politics, words have
> different meanings than they do in the real world.  The word
> "represent", for instance, is a political buzzword meaning "to rule
> over".

rep·re·sent
ˌreprəˈzent/
verb
1. be entitled or appointed to act or speak for (someone), especially in
an official capacity.

That seems to be exactly what we're talking about.

>>> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and
>>> vote for the least harmful candidate.
>> 
>> IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the
>> other guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp,
>> but both Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of
>> people who _do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the
>> lesser evil.
> 
> The number of people who support Trump is (IMHO) scarier than what
> he stands for - and that's scary enough.

Actually, it's a minority (though plurality in most states) of GOP
primary voters, who are a minority of the party, which is a minority of
the population.  So, while the level of support he _does_ get is indeed
troubling, I wouldn't extend that to the entire population.

What worries me is that he may not be quite scary enough to get the
silent majority to actually show up and vote against him.

>> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the 
>> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.
> 
> Not inevitable.  We have multiple parties here in Canada.  The
> effect of first-past-the-post voting is that all but the top two
> parties are marginalized.

2015 election results:

Party		Votes	Seats
Liberal 	39.5%	54.4%
Conservative	31.9%	29.3%
New Democratic	19.7%	13.0%
Bloc Quebeçois	 4.7%	 3.0%
Green		 3.4%	 0.3%

We immediately see the plurality party is vastly overrepresented, giving
40% of the voters 100% of the power.  The other 60% of voters have no
power unless they build a coalition _at the ballot box_ by merging
parties or, worse, engaging in strategic voting.

With proportional representation, each party would be allocated seats
based on the total vote, meaning each voter could pick their real
preference and the parties would have to build a coalition _in
Parliament_, which would actually represent a majority of voters.

Granted, Canada has managed to hang on to three major parties despite
such obvious problems; the same isn't really feasible in the US due to
our elected Senate and the Electoral College.  If we only elected the
lower house, as you do, we could probably managed three as well, but
it'd be at least as unstable as yours.

>> We would need to change our entire election system to fix that
>> problem, and neither of our major parties thinks it's in their
>> interests to do so.
> 
> Changing our electoral system was one of the planks in Justin
> Trudeau's campaign.  Time will show us whether he remembers that.

It will be interesting to see.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#161435

From"hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-24 14:39 +1100
Message-ID<dlh6b6F3gjsU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161425

"Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote in message 
news:ncv90n$eu7$1@dont-email.me...
> On 22-Mar-16 16:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2016-03-22, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>>> On 22-Mar-16 15:00, Osmium wrote:
>>>> The people I vote for do not speak for me, or reflect my
>>>> thinking.
>>>
>>> If you vote for them, they _do_ speak for you, and in theory, you
>>> voted for them because they _do_ reflect your thinking.
>>
>> They speak for me by definition, perhaps, but this is different from
>> them sharing my beliefs.  Remember that in politics, words have
>> different meanings than they do in the real world.  The word
>> "represent", for instance, is a political buzzword meaning "to rule
>> over".
>
> rep·re·sent
> ˌreprəˈzent/
> verb
> 1. be entitled or appointed to act or speak for (someone), especially in
> an official capacity.
>
> That seems to be exactly what we're talking about.

That isnt what happens when you vote for a particular
politician because it is the least worst candidate available.

>>>> they are chosen for me by others. I simply go down the list and
>>>> vote for the least harmful candidate.
>>>
>>> IOW, you're not voting for one guy but rather voting against the
>>> other guy(s).  I suspect that majority of people are in that camp,
>>> but both Trump and Bernie seem to have amassed a large following of
>>> people who _do_ agree with them rather than thinking they're the
>>> lesser evil.
>>
>> The number of people who support Trump is (IMHO) scarier than what
>> he stands for - and that's scary enough.
>
> Actually, it's a minority (though plurality in most states) of GOP
> primary voters, who are a minority of the party, which is a minority of
> the population.

And we will see what happens when him and Hitlary are presidential 
candidates.

> So, while the level of support he _does_ get is indeed troubling,

Only if you are silly enough to believe that he will be able to
actually do any of the sillier stuff he claims should be done.

> I wouldn't extend that to the entire population.

> What worries me is that he may not be quite scary enough to
> get the silent majority to actually show up and vote against him.

It is very far from clear that the silent majority even feels that way.

>>> IMHO, this is the major flaw with a two-party system, which is the
>>> inevitable result of first-past-the-post voting.
>>
>> Not inevitable.  We have multiple parties here in Canada.  The
>> effect of first-past-the-post voting is that all but the top two
>> parties are marginalized.
>
> 2015 election results:
>
> Party Votes Seats
> Liberal 39.5% 54.4%
> Conservative 31.9% 29.3%
> New Democratic 19.7% 13.0%
> Bloc Quebeçois 4.7% 3.0%
> Green 3.4% 0.3%
>
> We immediately see the plurality party is vastly overrepresented, giving
> 40% of the voters 100% of the power.  The other 60% of voters have no
> power unless they build a coalition _at the ballot box_ by merging
> parties or, worse, engaging in strategic voting.
>
> With proportional representation, each party would be allocated seats
> based on the total vote, meaning each voter could pick their real
> preference and the parties would have to build a coalition _in
> Parliament_, which would actually represent a majority of voters.

And because the majors are so close, that inevitably means
that the minor parties get a lot more say on policy than the
number of people who voted for them warrants and you
get very unstable government as a result too.

> Granted, Canada has managed to hang on to three major parties despite
> such obvious problems; the same isn't really feasible in the US due to
> our elected Senate and the Electoral College.  If we only elected the
> lower house, as you do, we could probably managed three as well, but
> it'd be at least as unstable as yours.

The US has never been anything like as gung ho as Canadian
voters have been at times. Particularly when they punished the
party that at one time did form government by electing almost
none of their politicians to office. That just hasn’t happened in
the US.

>>> We would need to change our entire election system to fix that
>>> problem, and neither of our major parties thinks it's in their
>>> interests to do so.
>>
>> Changing our electoral system was one of the planks in Justin
>> Trudeau's campaign.  Time will show us whether he remembers that.
>
> It will be interesting to see.

It's not just what he wants to do, what matters is what is politically 
possible too. 

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#161404

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-03-23 07:00 -0700
Message-ID<1392488070.480434197.662589.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#161365
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>> 
>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
> 
> aka
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
> 
> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
> 

DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!

-- 
Pete

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#161409

FromJimP. <blue@cwahi.net>
Date2016-03-23 09:40 -0500
Message-ID<1ma5fbdskkgo21vbvtdqldn52o087s2bu0@4ax.com>
In reply to#161404
On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:48 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>> 
>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>> 
>> aka
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>> 
>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>> 
>
>DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!

He claims he is... opf course, he is a rabble rouser.

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#161411

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-03-23 16:26 +0000
Message-ID<ncug2v1108k@news4.newsguy.com>
In reply to#161409
On 2016-03-23, JimP <blue@cwahi.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:48 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>
>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>> 
>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>> 
>>> aka
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>> 
>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>
>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>
> He claims he is... opf course, he is a rabble rouser.

My wife describes him simply as "trailer trash".

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#161414

Frommausg@mail.com
Date2016-03-23 17:36 +0000
Message-ID<slrnnf5l19.5ci.mausg@Smaus.org>
In reply to#161411
On 2016-03-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2016-03-23, JimP <blue@cwahi.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:48 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>> 
>>>> aka
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>> 
>>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>
>>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>>
>> He claims he is... opf course, he is a rabble rouser.
>
> My wife describes him simply as "trailer trash".
>

Once again, back to the greeks, ancient

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

The thing is, not how Trump rose, but why, the corruption and inanity
of the party bosses, the failure to understand ordinary peoples feelings,
and frustrations. The feelings of helplessness in the face of happenings,
and the obvious lies in the media.



-- 
greymaus
 .
  .
...

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#161416

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-03-23 18:08 +0000
Message-ID<ncum330149i@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#161414
On 2016-03-23, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> On 2016-03-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-03-23, JimP <blue@cwahi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:48 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>>> 
>>>>> aka
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>>> 
>>>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>>
>>>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>>>
>>> He claims he is... opf course, he is a rabble rouser.
>>
>> My wife describes him simply as "trailer trash".
>
> Once again, back to the greeks, ancient
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

That sounds like Trump, all right.  I love the way the article talks
about "a new kind of leader who emerged from the lower classes", which
ties in beautifully with my wife's "trailer trash" assessment.  (Yes,
Trump came from money, but he got none of the refinement that usually
comes with it.)  Maybe a subsequent update will put his picture right
under the one of Joe McCarthy.

> The thing is, not how Trump rose, but why, the corruption and inanity
> of the party bosses, the failure to understand ordinary peoples feelings,
> and frustrations. The feelings of helplessness in the face of happenings,
> and the obvious lies in the media.

All too true.  Yes, the game is usually rigged by those at the top,
but the rest of us must share some blame for falling for their lies.
It's not the first time someone has walked in and taken advantage
of the mess.  I'd name examples, but then I'd risk running afoul of
Godwin's Law.  Still, I can't resist pointing out that not only is
the election in November, so was Kristallnacht.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#161420

From"hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-24 07:30 +1100
Message-ID<dlgcniFs3j6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161414

<mausg@mail.com> wrote in message news:slrnnf5l19.5ci.mausg@Smaus.org...
> On 2016-03-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2016-03-23, JimP <blue@cwahi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:48 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> aka
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>>>
>>>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>>
>>>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>>>
>>> He claims he is... opf course, he is a rabble rouser.
>>
>> My wife describes him simply as "trailer trash".
>>
>
> Once again, back to the greeks, ancient
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
>
> The thing is, not how Trump rose, but why, the corruption and inanity
> of the party bosses, the failure to understand ordinary peoples feelings,
> and frustrations. The feelings of helplessness in the face of happenings,
> and the obvious lies in the media.

IMO it has nothing to do with any of that. It's just another example
of someone prepared to say what plenty of the voters want to hear,
particularly with keeping mexicans and other hispanics out and the
same with moslems. Whether there are enough of those to get him
elected as Prez remains to be seen, but there may well be, particularly
if Hitlary is the only alternative to vote for.

And even if he does get to be Prez, it really doesn’t matter much,
The mexicans certainly won't be paying for any wall and all
Trump could do when they don’t is more bluster and bullshit.

He's already said that Iraq was stupid, so it's unlikely
that he will be doing anything like that himself.

He'll just be the laughing stock of the world, just like Raygun was. 

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#161421

FromDave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
Date2016-03-23 15:16 -0500
Message-ID<ncutcp$240$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#161404
On 3/23/2016 9:00 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>
>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>
>> aka
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>
>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>
>
> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!

Oops, looks like Lynn touched a nerve there :(

Are there any Republicans who don't call themselves "conservative"? If 
you guys can't agree on a definition, how are us lefties supposed to 
figure it out?

Dictionary definitions center on "doesn't like change" and 
"traditional values". Which in both cases leaves the starting point of 
comparison open. Change from the 1930s (Herbert Hoover and the Great 
Depression, protectionism, lynchings, the rise of a certain party in 
Germany)? The 1950s (Eisenhower, McCarthy, high taxes, sexual 
shenanigans only behind closed doors, massive military superiority 
because everyone else had been squashed by WWII, and we didn't buy 
stuff from China)? The 1980s (Reagan, Ollie North, massive military 
expenditures that weren't paid for, uppity women and gays and Blacks)? 
The 1850s (Millard Fillmore, straight-laced social values, Calvinist 
Christianity, slavery)?

Or is it compared to some mythical America only existing in the land 
of the imagination? The 1950s, but where everybody lives in small 
towns, is of northern European extraction and knows everybody else, 
with white picket fences and no taxes, no Blacks who didn't know 
"their place", no Hispanics outside of farm fields, everyone was 
devout Christians (but none of that pansy "turn the other cheek" or 
"if someone takes your shirt, give him your jacket as well" or "judge 
not" stuff)? A place where everyone is respectful of authority because 
the authority figures always do know best?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#161422

From"hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-24 07:51 +1100
Message-ID<dlgdtuFsd9sU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161421

"Dave Garland" <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in message 
news:ncutcp$240$1@dont-email.me...
> On 3/23/2016 9:00 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>
>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>
>>> aka
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>
>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>
>>
>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>
> Oops, looks like Lynn touched a nerve there :(

Or he's decided you are deaf.

> Are there any Republicans who don't call themselves "conservative"? If you 
> guys can't agree on a definition, how are us lefties supposed to figure it 
> out?

It's only lefties that bother with definitions in that situation.

> Dictionary definitions center on "doesn't like change" and "traditional 
> values". Which in both cases leaves the starting point of comparison open. 
> Change from the 1930s (Herbert Hoover and the Great Depression, 
> protectionism, lynchings, the rise of a certain party in Germany)? The 
> 1950s (Eisenhower, McCarthy, high taxes, sexual shenanigans only behind 
> closed doors, massive military superiority because everyone else had been 
> squashed by WWII, and we didn't buy stuff from China)? The 1980s (Reagan, 
> Ollie North, massive military expenditures that weren't paid for, uppity 
> women and gays and Blacks)? The 1850s (Millard Fillmore, straight-laced 
> social values, Calvinist Christianity, slavery)?
>
> Or is it compared to some mythical America only existing in the land of 
> the imagination? The 1950s, but where everybody lives in small towns, is 
> of northern European extraction and knows everybody else, with white 
> picket fences and no taxes, no Blacks who didn't know "their place", no 
> Hispanics outside of farm fields, everyone was devout Christians (but none 
> of that pansy "turn the other cheek" or "if someone takes your shirt, give 
> him your jacket as well" or "judge not" stuff)? A place where everyone is 
> respectful of authority because the authority figures always do know best?
> 

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#161428

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-03-24 01:14 +0100
Message-ID<b4obsc-5d2.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#161421
In article <ncutcp$240$1@dont-email.me>,
Dave Garland  <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>On 3/23/2016 9:00 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>
>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>
>>> aka
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>
>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>
>>
>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>
>Oops, looks like Lynn touched a nerve there :(
>
>Are there any Republicans who don't call themselves "conservative"? If 
>you guys can't agree on a definition, how are us lefties supposed to 
>figure it out?

I call myself a conservative. 

In the tradition on Edmund Burke.

An opponent to the French Revolution, but an adherent to the American one.

"Change to preserve" is one motto. Not to be too hung up in the day to day
transactions, but to defend the underlying moral principles.

>Dictionary definitions center on "doesn't like change" and 
>"traditional values". Which in both cases leaves the starting point of 
>comparison open. Change from the 1930s (Herbert Hoover and the Great 
>Depression, protectionism, lynchings, the rise of a certain party in 
>Germany)? The 1950s (Eisenhower, McCarthy, high taxes, sexual 
>shenanigans only behind closed doors, massive military superiority 
>because everyone else had been squashed by WWII, and we didn't buy 
>stuff from China)? The 1980s (Reagan, Ollie North, massive military 
>expenditures that weren't paid for, uppity women and gays and Blacks)? 
>The 1850s (Millard Fillmore, straight-laced social values, Calvinist 
>Christianity, slavery)?

I would call Eisenhower, Macmillan, Heath, Thatcher, and perhaps
Hoover and Reagan, under doubt, conservatives. Fillmore, Hoover, 
MaCarthy, North were reactionaries. That is a far cry from conservatism.
They did cross paths quite often, though. Like Nixon's (another very
marginal conservative) saying about Pinochet; "He's a crook alright, 
but he's OUR crook". Pinochet was nothing like it. He was a military
dictator of the pretty autoritarian kind.

>Or is it compared to some mythical America only existing in the land 
>of the imagination? The 1950s, but where everybody lives in small 
>towns, is of northern European extraction and knows everybody else, 
>with white picket fences and no taxes, no Blacks who didn't know 
>"their place", no Hispanics outside of farm fields, everyone was 
>devout Christians (but none of that pansy "turn the other cheek" or 
>"if someone takes your shirt, give him your jacket as well" or "judge 
>not" stuff)? A place where everyone is respectful of authority because 
>the authority figures always do know best?

You havent got a clue to what convservatism is about. Go read some
Edmund Burke. Or Harold Macmillan. Or, even, Winston Churchill. (but
he digresses about WW1 (where he didn't do very well) WW2 (where he did)
and the Boer War (where he had a splendid adventure). 

-- mrr

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#161434

FromDave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
Date2016-03-23 22:36 -0500
Message-ID<ncvn6n$hi0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#161428
On 3/23/2016 7:14 PM, Morten Reistad wrote:

> You havent got a clue to what convservatism is about.

ISTM it's a word that has been diluted into meaninglessness, at least 
in the US. Maybe in other parts of the world that's not so. Here, 
every Republican claims to be a conservative, and few are ever 
challenged on it. Here, it's difficult to separate the threads of 
conservatism, racism, greed, xenophobia (mostly directed at people who 
look different, not Norwegians), anti-tax sentiment, authoritarianism, 
militarism. (Not that those are all unique to the right, but our right 
seems to swallow them all.)

Not being one, I don't feel the obligation (or have the competence) to 
suss out the subtle differences and judge which of them merits being 
called "truly" conservative. If they all want to be known by the same 
term, they all get painted with the same brush.

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#161429

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-03-23 19:02 -0700
Message-ID<2116130262.480477304.545936.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#161421
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 3/23/2016 9:00 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>> 
>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>> 
>>> aka
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>> 
>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>> 
>> 
>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
> 
> Oops, looks like Lynn touched a nerve there :(
> 
> Are there any Republicans who don't call themselves "conservative"? If 
> you guys can't agree on a definition, how are us lefties supposed to 
> figure it out?
> 
> Dictionary definitions center on "doesn't like change" and 
> "traditional values". Which in both cases leaves the starting point of 
> comparison open. Change from the 1930s (Herbert Hoover and the Great 
> Depression, protectionism, lynchings, the rise of a certain party in 
> Germany)? The 1950s (Eisenhower, McCarthy, high taxes, sexual 
> shenanigans only behind closed doors, massive military superiority 
> because everyone else had been squashed by WWII, and we didn't buy 
> stuff from China)? The 1980s (Reagan, Ollie North, massive military 
> expenditures that weren't paid for, uppity women and gays and Blacks)? 
> The 1850s (Millard Fillmore, straight-laced social values, Calvinist 
> Christianity, slavery)?
> 
> Or is it compared to some mythical America only existing in the land 
> of the imagination? The 1950s, but where everybody lives in small 
> towns, is of northern European extraction and knows everybody else, 
> with white picket fences and no taxes, no Blacks who didn't know 
> "their place", no Hispanics outside of farm fields, everyone was 
> devout Christians (but none of that pansy "turn the other cheek" or 
> "if someone takes your shirt, give him your jacket as well" or "judge 
> not" stuff)? A place where everyone is respectful of authority because 
> the authority figures always do know best?
> 
> 

Obviously I'm not an authority, but most conservative thinking seems to
focus on individual liberty, with the extreme wing being called
"libertarian".  It's not so much a particular, although I'm partial to the
1950s myself, but supporting the principles written into the Constitution
and the Declaration of Independence. We want less government, and
government interference with the individual.  Most conservatives favor a
strong military; the US is the premier superpower, we need to use our power
to foster democracy and fight oppression.

-- 
Pete

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#161433

From"hanja" <hanja228@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-24 14:29 +1100
Message-ID<dlh591F39bvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#161429

"Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:2116130262.480477304.545936.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 3/23/2016 9:00 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>> Most liberals attack the idea, not the individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most conservatives attack the individual, not the idea.
>>>>
>>>> aka
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>>>
>>>> google search on "political ad hominem attacks"
>>>> http://www.redstate.com/diary/ryuzzi/2015/09/11/donald-trump-art-ad-hominem/
>>>> http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/11/ad-hominem-politics/
>>>> http://www.clearerthinking.org/?_escaped_fragment_=the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0#!the-2016-presidential-debates--subtitled/wt7g0
>>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/the_ultimate_political_ad_homi031689.php
>>>>
>>>
>>> DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE!!
>>
>> Oops, looks like Lynn touched a nerve there :(
>>
>> Are there any Republicans who don't call themselves "conservative"? If
>> you guys can't agree on a definition, how are us lefties supposed to
>> figure it out?
>>
>> Dictionary definitions center on "doesn't like change" and
>> "traditional values". Which in both cases leaves the starting point of
>> comparison open. Change from the 1930s (Herbert Hoover and the Great
>> Depression, protectionism, lynchings, the rise of a certain party in
>> Germany)? The 1950s (Eisenhower, McCarthy, high taxes, sexual
>> shenanigans only behind closed doors, massive military superiority
>> because everyone else had been squashed by WWII, and we didn't buy
>> stuff from China)? The 1980s (Reagan, Ollie North, massive military
>> expenditures that weren't paid for, uppity women and gays and Blacks)?
>> The 1850s (Millard Fillmore, straight-laced social values, Calvinist
>> Christianity, slavery)?
>>
>> Or is it compared to some mythical America only existing in the land
>> of the imagination? The 1950s, but where everybody lives in small
>> towns, is of northern European extraction and knows everybody else,
>> with white picket fences and no taxes, no Blacks who didn't know
>> "their place", no Hispanics outside of farm fields, everyone was
>> devout Christians (but none of that pansy "turn the other cheek" or
>> "if someone takes your shirt, give him your jacket as well" or "judge
>> not" stuff)? A place where everyone is respectful of authority because
>> the authority figures always do know best?
>>
>>
>
> Obviously I'm not an authority, but most conservative
> thinking seems to focus on individual liberty,

That is a quite different concept to conservatism.

> with the extreme wing being called "libertarian".

And so is that with its emphasis on minimising government.

> It's not so much a particular, although I'm partial to the 1950s myself,

I'm not with its very rigid attitudes to how things should
be  done and how you should dress etc in spades.

> but supporting the principles written into the
> Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Again, that's not really what a conservative is about,
particularly in countries which don’t have a written
constitution or any declaration of independence.

> We want less government, and government interference with the individual.

That's libertarianism, not conservatism.

> Most conservatives favor a strong military;

Not always, most obviously between the wars.

> the US is the premier superpower,

But that is a relatively recent thing, its only been true since the war.

> we need to use our power to foster democracy and fight oppression.

That worked REAL well in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. 

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