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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #157616 > unrolled thread

DEC and The Americans

Started byRS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com>
First post2016-01-25 17:26 +0300
Last post2016-01-30 20:36 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 381 — 58 participants

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Contents

  DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300
    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 15:45 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 10:53 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 04:48 +1100
          Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-01-26 14:14 -0800
            Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-26 17:21 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 10:58 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 16:17 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-25 11:47 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2016-01-25 16:47 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-25 17:41 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2016-01-25 19:25 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-01-25 16:15 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 13:17 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-26 08:20 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-26 11:32 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:23 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:20 -0600
            Re: DEC and The Americans scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2016-01-27 19:40 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> - 2016-01-27 22:40 -0800
        Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 15:07 -0800
          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:34 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:38 -0800
              Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 23:55 -0500
              Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:32 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:31 -0800
                  Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-27 21:10 +0000
                    Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:49 -0500
                      Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:33 -0600
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:00 -0500
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 00:48 +0000
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 21:02 -0500
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 07:32 -0500
                  Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:32 -0600
                    Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:03 -0500
                    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
                      Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 20:58 -0500
                        Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 10:40 +0000
                        Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 19:11 -0600
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-29 23:21 -0500
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 03:45 -0800
                            Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:25 -0600
                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-01 17:45 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-01 21:29 -0500
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 00:33 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 03:04 -0500
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:42 -0600
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:40 -0800
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:39 -0500
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 22:35 -0600
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-03 23:59 -0600
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 06:03 -0700
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:24 -0500
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 10:51 -0700
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:12 +1100
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-04 19:29 +0000
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:26 -0500
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-05 02:51 -0600
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-05 10:45 +0000
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 10:47 -0600
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 10:21 -0800
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-06 08:06 -0700
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 10:02 -0800
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:20 -0600
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 04:41 +0000
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-17 07:45 -0700
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:18 -0600
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-05 20:35 -0800
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-05 23:12 -0600
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-06 01:34 -0800
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-06 07:39 -0700
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 14:02 +0000
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 10:01 -0800
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 19:36 +0000
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 11:45 -0800
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:14 +0100
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:35 -0600
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 18:19 -0500
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:45 -0600
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:08 -0500
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-05 19:05 -0500
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 21:32 -0600
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:49 -0600
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-01 21:18 -0600
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 02:59 -0500
                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:38 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
                      Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 18:58 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:46 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:14 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-27 14:28 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:26 -0600
              Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-26 17:57 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:35 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-26 14:53 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 09:58 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 11:05 -0800
                  Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 11:41 -0800
                    Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 12:38 -0800
                      Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 15:26 -0800
                        Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:25 -0800
              Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:38 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 07:54 -0800
            Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:39 -0600
        Re: DEC and The Americans Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2016-01-26 21:16 +0200
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-28 10:07 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:48 +1100
      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:43 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-02-03 00:36 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:42 -0800
              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-03 14:25 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:58 -0800
                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-04 15:14 +0000
                    Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:01 +1100
                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
                        Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 04:42 +1100
                          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-06 11:45 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-06 18:09 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 15:49 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-07 05:33 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-07 11:12 -0800
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-07 11:42 -0600
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-07 20:06 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:06 +1100
                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:52 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:56 -0500
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 12:33 -0600
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 16:34 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:08 +1100
                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:10 +1100
                    Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-04 13:42 -0600
                      Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-04 14:23 -0600
                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-05 14:32 -0600
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:05 -0800
                            Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 10:34 +0000
                          Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:08 -0800
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-05 15:34 -0600
                          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-06 14:45 +0000
                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:05 +1100
                                Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:27 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:28 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-07 12:07 -0800
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:07 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-07 19:56 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:53 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:11 +0100
                                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:49 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:43 +0000
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-06 13:18 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:08 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 14:22 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:52 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-06 16:38 -0500
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 20:09 -0800
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:36 -0500
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 06:18 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:10 -0500
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-07 19:24 -0800
                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:45 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 04:16 +1100
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 12:22 +1100
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 11:16 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-09 13:55 -0600
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:49 -0500
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:11 -0600
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:47 -0500
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:01 +1100
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 16:13 -0600
                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:49 +1100
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-07 12:12 -0800
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                            Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:26 -0500
                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:09 -0500
                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:56 +1100
                                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:59 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 14:38 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 15:56 +0000
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:17 +0100
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:03 +1100
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:09 +0000
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-09 17:27 +0000
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 10:36 -0800
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:08 +0000
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:10 +0000
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 02:52 +1100
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:12 +0000
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-11 11:20 -0600
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:58 +1100
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:57 -0600
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-11 21:22 +0000
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-11 17:07 -0600
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 17:11 -0600
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-11 15:32 -0800
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-11 17:56 -0600
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:36 -0500
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-12 00:35 -0600
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:47 -0800
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:04 -0600
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:22 -0400
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2016-02-12 23:19 +0000
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:42 -0800
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:32 -0800
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0500
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 15:35 +1100
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-11 17:47 -0800
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0600
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-12 12:22 +0000
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 07:23 -0700
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-12 14:50 -0500
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 01:39 +0000
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:17 -0400
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:50 -0800
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-13 08:48 +0000
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:54 -0400
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 19:06 -0800
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 03:50 -0400
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-14 14:11 -0600
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 07:35 +1100
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:37 +0000
                                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 05:09 +1100
                                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 17:05 -0400
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:07 -0800
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 19:35 -0800
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:33 +0000
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 17:58 -0800
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 03:08 -0400
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-15 08:21 +0000
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 10:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 16:25 +0000
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:43 +0100
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 22:07 +0000
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 00:36 +0100
                                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
                                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-16 21:25 -0800
                                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-17 09:40 +0000
                                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 15:04 +0100
                                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 14:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:09 +0000
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2016-02-17 01:08 +0800
                                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 18:55 +0100
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-14 15:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 04:48 +1100
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:40 +0100
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 11:42 +1100
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:29 +0000
                                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 06:02 -0800
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 17:22 -0400
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:13 -0800
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:45 -0500
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 00:16 +0000
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-15 21:00 -0800
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:12 +0000
                                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-16 15:29 -0500
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:47 -0400
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 18:54 -0800
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-13 22:05 -0600
                                                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                                                        Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:54 -0800
                                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-13 16:27 +0000
                                                            Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-13 18:05 +0000
                                                              Re: DEC and The Americans roger.ivie@gmail.com - 2016-02-13 11:18 -0800
                                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-02-15 22:19 -0500
                                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:47 -0500
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:44 +1100
                                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:18 +1100
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-09 18:42 +0100
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:09 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Warren Adams <adamswa@hiwaay.net> - 2016-02-08 17:00 -0600
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-09 03:18 +0000
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-08 08:14 -0800
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:46 +0000
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 16:50 +0000
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:13 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:26 -0600
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 18:26 +0000
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:26 -0600
                                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:16 -0600
                                  Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:05 +1100
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:49 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:47 +0000
                                    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 19:01 -0500
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                                      Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-10 07:34 +0100
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-11 04:30 -0400
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:40 +1100
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:03 -0400
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                                                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 15:51 -0400
                                        Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:09 +0000
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-11 18:42 +0000
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:59 -0600
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-12 08:13 +0000
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-12 12:42 -0600
                                            Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:46 -0400
                                              Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-12 12:20 +0000
                                          Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:33 -0400
    Re: DEC and The Americans Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2016-01-25 17:27 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-25 11:18 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-25 10:24 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 06:14 +1100
      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 17:53 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans "kipg" <io@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 10:40 +1100
    Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:40 +1100
    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 19:12 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:22 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-26 16:20 +0100
          Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:37 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:58 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:16 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 18:14 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:34 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:03 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:07 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-27 17:31 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-28 10:17 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-28 07:26 -0800
        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:36 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-28 10:31 -0800
          Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-29 14:07 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 20:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 21:11 +0000
                  Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 19:30 -0500
                    Re: DEC and The Americans Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-01-29 21:20 -0400
                      Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-30 12:48 -0800
                        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-31 11:17 -0500
                          Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-02 15:09 -0800
                            Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:40 -0500
                      Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 14:42 +0000
                        Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-01 16:03 +0000
                          Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 17:11 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans bleep@compy.0-0 (Colonel Bleep) - 2016-01-30 07:07 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:43 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 20:36 +0000

Page 14 of 20 — ← Prev page 1 … 12 13 [14] 15 16 … 20  Next page →


#159423

Frommausg@mail.com
Date2016-02-15 10:33 +0000
Message-ID<slrnnc3abr.34c.mausg@smaus.org>
In reply to#159378
On 2016-02-14, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
> On 14-Feb-16 01:50, Mike Spencer wrote:
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>> I have a book on steel-making.  There's all sorts of variations on 
>>> how they handle the steel depending on what resultant qualities
>>> are desired.  Lot of chemistry is involved.
>> 
>> At the Sydney NS mill (now long closed) I asked about the big
>> propane tank outside, did they use that to heat steel?
>> 
>> No. The oxygen lance inserted in the open hearth steel burned away 
>> inconveniently fast.  So they put an annular pipe around it and blew 
>> propane in around the oxy jet.  At the temp of molten steel, the 
>> endothermic catalytic cracking of the propane more than offset the 
>> combustion, reduced local temp and prolonged the lance life.
>> There's chemistry
>
> *boggle*  The furnace is so hot that adding a flammable substance
> actually cools it down?  My brain hurts.
>
>> and we haven't even gotton to the chemistry of the steel itself.
>
> I hope the carbon in the propane is captured in the steel, reducing the
> need for added coke, rather than released as CO2.
>
>>> The Roebling Works, that made the cable for the Brooklyn bridge,
>>> closed their specialty mill down in the 1970s.   The gate house was
>>> preserved and turned into a little museum about the mill
>>> (everything else was demolished and required a cleanup).
>> 
>> The cleanup of the coking plant at Sydney went on (or, very 
>> controversially for the neighbors, failed to go on) for decades. 
>> They'd dump a carload of coal in between retaining walls suitable to 
>> hold a carload, get it hot enough to coke (I don't know exactly how) 
>> and then drench it with water, then scrape the coke out into another 
>> rail car.  The runoff water went into holding ponds that became
>> leaky reservoirs of toxic hydrocarbons.
>
> There was no attempt to capture the hydrocarbons, which could be quite
> valuable in their own right?
>
> I'm not familiar with the chemistry of coal, but for a layman, is it
> reasonably accurate to think of it as coke infused with oil?
>
> S
>

AFAIK, no. Coke, asfareasIknow, can best be made from some varieties
of coal. Again, Welsh coal ws best. There is a large opencast coal mine 
in Ehe English NorthEast.


-- 
greymaus
 .
  .
...

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#159407

Fromhancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Date2016-02-14 17:58 -0800
Message-ID<a61aad5a-67d0-470e-9935-22cd5918964a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#159334
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 2:50:51 AM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:

> No. The oxygen lance inserted in the open hearth steel burned away
> inconveniently fast.  So they put an annular pipe around it and blew
> propane in around the oxy jet.  At the temp of molten steel, the
> endothermic catalytic cracking of the propane more than offset the
> combustion, reduced local temp and prolonged the lance life.  There's
> chemistry and we haven't even gotton to the chemistry of the steel
> itself. 

I'm told that the oxygen lance was a _relatively_ recent improvement
to the open hearth, but it helped a great deal.

One problem in US steel making was that they stuck with the open hearth
way too long while others used basic-oxygen or electric arc.


> The cleanup of the coking plant at Sydney went on (or, very
> controversially for the neighbors, failed to go on) for decades.
> They'd dump a carload of coal in between retaining walls suitable to
> hold a carload, get it hot enough to coke (I don't know exactly how)
> and then drench it with water, then scrape the coke out into another
> rail car.  The runoff water went into holding ponds that became leaky
> reservoirs of toxic hydrocarbons.

Making coke out of coal is a dirty business.  But I understand
they developed a sealed process so that all the nasty stuff released
from the coal is captured, and actually has some value for other
industrial processes.

I wonder if they should burn coke instead of coal in power plant furnaces.
In this way, the nasty stuff in coal that now goes up the chimney would
be captured by the coking process.  Coke, being almost pure carbon, would
burn more efficiently than coal.

As an aside, 100 years ago they made coke in open ovens, letting all the
nasty stuff go into the atmosphere.  Corporations ruled the land back
then and there were few environmental laws, but neighbors of coke plants
were able to successfully sue back then to get the nasty emissions
contained.  Of course, the steel companies didn't mind too much as they
discovered that the captured stuff could be sold.


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#159416

FromMike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
Date2016-02-15 03:08 -0400
Message-ID<87ziv2v4bh.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
In reply to#159407
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> Making coke out of coal is a dirty business.  But I understand
> they developed a sealed process so that all the nasty stuff released
> from the coal is captured, and actually has some value for other
> industrial processes.
> 
> I wonder if they should burn coke instead of coal in power plant
> furnaces.  In this way, the nasty stuff in coal that now goes up the
> chimney would be captured by the coking process.  Coke, being almost
> pure carbon, would burn more efficiently than coal.

I don't know a lot about coal in general but AFAIK the coal fed into
most gen plants is a far lower grade than the "metallurgical" coal
used for coke and steel making.  Much higher ash in particular.  I've
used coal from gen station pile that was fine and also some that never
coked out, quickly filling the forge fire with chunks of ash the same
size as the pieces of coal.  I'd get a few heats, then have to rake
out the fire and rebuild it. Not sure that pre-coking low-grade coal
would work or help.

> As an aside, 100 years ago they made coke in open ovens, letting all the
> nasty stuff go into the atmosphere.  Corporations ruled the land back
> then and there were few environmental laws, but neighbors of coke plants
> were able to successfully sue back then to get the nasty emissions
> contained.  Of course, the steel companies didn't mind too much as they
> discovered that the captured stuff could be sold.

See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Tar_Ponds

Before WW I, biggest steel producer in N. America.  In the 80s,
Canada's worst environmental pollution site.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#159419

FromStan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date2016-02-15 08:21 +0000
Message-ID<slrnnc32je.8tb.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to#159407
On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:26 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com 
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder if they should burn coke instead of coal in power plant furnaces.
> In this way, the nasty stuff in coal that now goes up the chimney would
> be captured by the coking process.  Coke, being almost pure carbon, would
> burn more efficiently than coal.

Coke sertainly burns quite cleanly, my old boarding school in the
'50s/'60s cooked with coke (a large AGA stove...) and ran the central
heating on it.  Very litle smoke from either.
We were way out in the country, no gas piped out there...

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

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#159337

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-14 10:07 +0100
Message-ID<ans5pc-3la.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159311
In article <9f45e501-8e5c-478e-a87b-6547e219887c@googlegroups.com>,
 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 3:54:44 PM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Yes. Fifteen or so blacksmiths, attending a nearby workshop, were
>> there to see how the Big Dogs did it.  We did get to see the open
>> hearth furnace dumped into a giant ladle, degassed and run into a
>> mould.
>
>I've seen that on TV.  The tapping of a furnace is supposed to be
>quite neat to watch.
>
>I have a book on steel-making.  There's all sorts of variations on
>how they handle the steel depending on what resultant qualities are
>desired.  Lot of chemistry is involved.
>
>As I understand it, the US steel industry was pretty static for decades
>until they finally woke up and realized they had to get more competitive
>with the rest of world.  So, around 1985, they got serious and eventually
>made significant improvements to the resultant quality.  Unfortunately,
>for many companies, like Bethlehem and LTV, it was too late.  US Steel is
>still in business, but much smaller.

The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
ca 1985 onwards.

-- mrr

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#159363

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2016-02-14 16:25 +0000
Message-ID<dibo44Ffq80U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#159337
On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:


> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
> ca 1985 onwards.

I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of Skye.

They put 315 bar in them.

-- 
I don't have an attitude problem.  If you have a problem with my
              attitude, that's your problem.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#159383

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-14 21:43 +0100
Message-ID<kf57pc-r3f.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159363
In article <dibo44Ffq80U2@mid.individual.net>,
Huge  <usenet@huge.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>> ca 1985 onwards.
>
>I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of Skye.
>
>They put 315 bar in them.

For 300 bar tanks it is OK for a fill station to overfill them by 10%, ie.
have 330 bar in them. You will have to wait for it to sink down to 300 before
transporting it with cars or rail on public roads or rail lines.

Ditto for 232, 255; or 200 to 220.

-- mrr

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#159392

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2016-02-14 22:07 +0000
Message-ID<dicc5kFl5qaU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#159383
On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <dibo44Ffq80U2@mid.individual.net>,
> Huge  <usenet@huge.org.uk> wrote:
>>On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>>> ca 1985 onwards.
>>
>>I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of Skye.
>>
>>They put 315 bar in them.
>
> For 300 bar tanks it is OK for a fill station to overfill them by 10%, ie.
> have 330 bar in them. You will have to wait for it to sink down to 300 before
> transporting it with cars or rail on public roads or rail lines.
>
> Ditto for 232, 255; or 200 to 220.

Err, they were (iirc) 224 bar tanks.


-- 
I don't have an attitude problem.  If you have a problem with my
              attitude, that's your problem.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#159447

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
Message-ID<n9tfr901t66@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#159363
On 2016-02-14, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>> ca 1985 onwards.
>
> I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of
> Skye.
>
> They put 315 bar in them.

Holy cow.  Once on a trip we took our aluminum 80s (3000 psi) to a shop
where someone couldn't tell they weren't steels and filled them to 3500
psi.  In the name of safety we dashed off to the nearest dive site and
breathed them down as quickly as possible.  :-)

Here on the Wet Coast a lot of people still use aluminum tanks, although
3500-psi steels are slowly but steadily increasing in number.

I wonder how much higher it is feasible for pressures to go, considering
that above 3000 psi or so air is acting less and less like an ideal gas;
those molecules are starting to jostle each other a lot.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#159473

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-16 00:36 +0100
Message-ID<o14apc-gkm.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159447
In article <n9tfr901t66@news3.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2016-02-14, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>>> ca 1985 onwards.
>>
>> I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of
>> Skye.
>>
>> They put 315 bar in them.
>
>Holy cow.  Once on a trip we took our aluminum 80s (3000 psi) to a shop
>where someone couldn't tell they weren't steels and filled them to 3500
>psi.  In the name of safety we dashed off to the nearest dive site and
>breathed them down as quickly as possible.  :-)

3500 PSI is just 6% beyond a plus fill. It is called a Cave Fill. It
will decrease the life of the tank below the expected 50000 fill/empty
cycles they are designed for, but for <10year old tanks in hydro they 
should be harmless. Don't collide with them in your car, though.

The hydro test is a 50%-60% overfill with water (that behaves a lot
nicer when the tank ruptures). My wife works for a company that does such
hydro tests, and among the ~70k tanks they have tested, one has ruptured.
Around 20 have been failed because they had too much expansion when tested
(indicating that the material is about to give way). Around 5% have been
failed  in the visual inspection from rust/corrosion or visible damage.

>Here on the Wet Coast a lot of people still use aluminum tanks, although
>3500-psi steels are slowly but steadily increasing in number.
>
>I wonder how much higher it is feasible for pressures to go, considering
>that above 3000 psi or so air is acting less and less like an ideal gas;
>those molecules are starting to jostle each other a lot.

At 200 bar nominal pressure at 20C you "lose" 8/200ths of mass of gas.
At 232 you "lose" 14/232ths, at 300 you "lose" 28. The first "bar" lost
is at 143. 

So when the gage shows 142 bar on your 10liter tank you have 1420 liters
of free air. At 300 you only have 2720. From 300 up you get around 3/4ths
of free air until ca 650, when there is another knee.

600 bar is the maximum shelf-ware steel tanks and regulators you can buy.
From there up it becomes expen$ive.

I have a set of Poseidon 6L 300bar doubles which gave no expansion[2] when 
hydroed to 450, so the shop mistakenly hydroed them at 600, and they passed
a fill pressure of 450. No damage.

Steel[1] gives way around 1800 bar; then there is no help in making it thicker.

-- mrr

[1] the type used in dive tanks, which needs quite a bit of elasticity.
[2] to have no expansion at all is very unusual. You can have up to 3%.

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#159563

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
Message-ID<na0q7e02ist@news7.newsguy.com>
In reply to#159473
On 2016-02-15, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:

> The hydro test is a 50%-60% overfill with water (that behaves a lot
> nicer when the tank ruptures). My wife works for a company that does such
> hydro tests, and among the ~70k tanks they have tested, one has ruptured.
> Around 20 have been failed because they had too much expansion when tested
> (indicating that the material is about to give way). Around 5% have been
> failed  in the visual inspection from rust/corrosion or visible damage.

On a road trip many moons ago we stopped into a dive shop that had had a tank
blow a few days earlier.  There were many large holes in walls and floor, and
the air bank was scattered like bowling pins.  Fortunately nobody was nearby
when it happened.  It really made us pay attention to the demo they gave of
how their newly-acquired VIP Plus machine could find neck cracks.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#159571

Fromhancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Date2016-02-16 21:25 -0800
Message-ID<4b212b83-c744-4e56-b4f8-46de195e445a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#159563
On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 10:44:32 PM UTC-5, Charlie Gibbs wrote:


> On a road trip many moons ago we stopped into a dive shop that had had a tank
> blow a few days earlier.  There were many large holes in walls and floor, and
> the air bank was scattered like bowling pins.  Fortunately nobody was nearby
> when it happened.  It really made us pay attention to the demo they gave of
> how their newly-acquired VIP Plus machine could find neck cracks.

The following is probably completely irrelevant, but I will mention that
Sea Hunt with Lloyd Bridges is aired on the MeTV network around 5 a.m.
(check local listings).  Always liked that show.  One episode at Leonard
Nimoy going nuts from a chemical spill, just like he did in "Amok Time".
(They took off Highway Patrol).

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#159578

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2016-02-17 09:40 +0000
Message-ID<diitg0Fb2grU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#159563
On 2016-02-17, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2016-02-15, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The hydro test is a 50%-60% overfill with water (that behaves a lot
>> nicer when the tank ruptures). My wife works for a company that does such
>> hydro tests, and among the ~70k tanks they have tested, one has ruptured.
>> Around 20 have been failed because they had too much expansion when tested
>> (indicating that the material is about to give way). Around 5% have been
>> failed  in the visual inspection from rust/corrosion or visible damage.
>
> On a road trip many moons ago we stopped into a dive shop that had had a tank
> blow a few days earlier.  There were many large holes in walls and floor, and
> the air bank was scattered like bowling pins.  Fortunately nobody was nearby
> when it happened.  It really made us pay attention to the demo they gave of
> how their newly-acquired VIP Plus machine could find neck cracks.

The first time I ever used our dive club's compressor unsupervised it blew a HP seal. (Cue corny joke) Frightened the living crap out of me.


-- 
I don't have an attitude problem.  If you have a problem with my
              attitude, that's your problem.

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#159588

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-17 15:04 +0100
Message-ID<68bepc-dgt.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159578
In article <diitg0Fb2grU1@mid.individual.net>,
Huge  <usenet@huge.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2016-02-17, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2016-02-15, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> The hydro test is a 50%-60% overfill with water (that behaves a lot
>>> nicer when the tank ruptures). My wife works for a company that does such
>>> hydro tests, and among the ~70k tanks they have tested, one has ruptured.
>>> Around 20 have been failed because they had too much expansion when tested
>>> (indicating that the material is about to give way). Around 5% have been
>>> failed  in the visual inspection from rust/corrosion or visible damage.
>>
>> On a road trip many moons ago we stopped into a dive shop that had had a tank
>> blow a few days earlier.  There were many large holes in walls and floor, and
>> the air bank was scattered like bowling pins.  Fortunately nobody was nearby
>> when it happened.  It really made us pay attention to the demo they gave of
>> how their newly-acquired VIP Plus machine could find neck cracks.
>
>The first time I ever used our dive club's compressor unsupervised it blew a HP seal. (Cue corny joke) Frightened the living crap out of me.

There are many things that can scare the livings sh%t out of you, or even
harm or kill you with high pressure gases. Ruptured hoses, ruptured anything, 
and even wrongly attached fill whips. And having the wrong valve on your
tank (mixing up R3/4 and M25x2) will make a spectacular explosion at around
150 bar. 

There is a reason for the needed courses, training, exams and security
procedures near these things.

-- mrr

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#159587

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-17 14:57 +0100
Message-ID<gqaepc-dgt.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159563
In article <na0q7e02ist@news7.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2016-02-15, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The hydro test is a 50%-60% overfill with water (that behaves a lot
>> nicer when the tank ruptures). My wife works for a company that does such
>> hydro tests, and among the ~70k tanks they have tested, one has ruptured.
>> Around 20 have been failed because they had too much expansion when tested
>> (indicating that the material is about to give way). Around 5% have been
>> failed  in the visual inspection from rust/corrosion or visible damage.
>
>On a road trip many moons ago we stopped into a dive shop that had had a tank
>blow a few days earlier.  There were many large holes in walls and floor, and
>the air bank was scattered like bowling pins.  Fortunately nobody was nearby
>when it happened.  It really made us pay attention to the demo they gave of
>how their newly-acquired VIP Plus machine could find neck cracks.

This is especially for aluminium tanks. There was an alloy that was used
ca 1986-1993 that developed cracks. These tanks should be discarded, all
of them. Otherwise, neck cracking is uniformly shown only on tanks
that have been sevrely overfilled lots and lots of times. Cave fillers
discard the tanks after a while.

Steel tanks do not develop neck craks the same way. They have 
corrosion spots instead.

-- mrr

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#159479

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2016-02-16 09:09 +0000
Message-ID<dig7amFjsiqU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#159447
On 2016-02-15, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2016-02-14, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>>> ca 1985 onwards.
>>
>> I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of
>> Skye.
>>
>> They put 315 bar in them.
>
> Holy cow.  Once on a trip we took our aluminum 80s (3000 psi) to a shop
> where someone couldn't tell they weren't steels and filled them to 3500
> psi.  In the name of safety we dashed off to the nearest dive site and
> breathed them down as quickly as possible.  :-)

That's how I dealt with mine, also!


-- 
I don't have an attitude problem.  If you have a problem with my
              attitude, that's your problem.

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#159499

FromBernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au>
Date2016-02-17 01:08 +0800
Message-ID<qk1cpcxu2p.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au>
In reply to#159447
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2016-02-14, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:

>>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>>> ca 1985 onwards.
>>
>> I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of
>> Skye.
>>
>> They put 315 bar in them.

>Holy cow.  Once on a trip we took our aluminum 80s (3000 psi) to a shop
>where someone couldn't tell they weren't steels and filled them to 3500
>psi.  In the name of safety we dashed off to the nearest dive site and
>breathed them down as quickly as possible.  :-)

Carbon fibre reinforcement is used now; or rather, as I understand
it; aluminium sleeved carbon fibre cylinders.

It makes divers carry more weights.
-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Somewhere in Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
 X   against HTML mail     | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \  and postings          |  --HL Mencken

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#159505

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-02-16 18:55 +0100
Message-ID<mc4cpc-g1r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#159499
In article <qk1cpcxu2p.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au>,
Bernd Felsche  <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote:
>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2016-02-14, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2016-02-14, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> The increase in diving tank pressure from 200 to 232 bar (~3000 to ~3400 psi)
>>>> arised almost exclusively because the steel strength increased that much
>>>> between 1955 and 1995. This started in Europe, but the Americans got in
>>>> on the act pretty fast. And, yes, the increase in strength happened mostly
>>>> ca 1985 onwards.
>>>
>>> I took my tanks in to be filled at a commercial dive place on the Isle of
>>> Skye.
>>>
>>> They put 315 bar in them.
>
>>Holy cow.  Once on a trip we took our aluminum 80s (3000 psi) to a shop
>>where someone couldn't tell they weren't steels and filled them to 3500
>>psi.  In the name of safety we dashed off to the nearest dive site and
>>breathed them down as quickly as possible.  :-)
>
>Carbon fibre reinforcement is used now; or rather, as I understand
>it; aluminium sleeved carbon fibre cylinders.
>
>It makes divers carry more weights.

And they have some issues with seawater seeping into the carbon, drying
and and wetting it and depositing salt. This is a real issue regarding
strength. So the jury is still out on them, and what the relevant hydro
interval should be. So far most jurisdictions have played it safe and
gone for one year.

Which put them at a disadvantage to steel and aluminium, which normally
have 5 or 10 year hydro intervals in EU+US. (Your countrys MMV)

Again, everything well below the hydro test pressure is generally safe
until you collide with it, but it may shorten the life of the tank.

Tests with overfilling al80s 30% reduced the service life from the 
required 50 000 fill-empty cycles to less than 10 000. I.e. fill twice
daily for only 30 years, not 120.

-- mrr


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#159349

Frommausg@mail.com
Date2016-02-14 15:24 +0000
Message-ID<slrnnc171g.196.mausg@smaus.org>
In reply to#159311
On 2016-02-14, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 3:54:44 PM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Yes. Fifteen or so blacksmiths, attending a nearby workshop, were
>> there to see how the Big Dogs did it.  We did get to see the open
>> hearth furnace dumped into a giant ladle, degassed and run into a
>> mould.
>
> I've seen that on TV.  The tapping of a furnace is supposed to be
> quite neat to watch.
>
> I have a book on steel-making.  There's all sorts of variations on
> how they handle the steel depending on what resultant qualities are
> desired.  Lot of chemistry is involved.
>
> As I understand it, the US steel industry was pretty static for decades
> until they finally woke up and realized they had to get more competitive
> with the rest of world.  So, around 1985, they got serious and eventually
> made significant improvements to the resultant quality.  Unfortunately,
> for many companies, like Bethlehem and LTV, it was too late.  US Steel is
> still in business, but much smaller.
>
> The Roebling Works, that made the cable for the Brooklyn bridge, closed
> their specialty mill down in the 1970s.   The gate house was preserved 
> and turned into a little museum about the mill (everything else was
> demolished and required a cleanup).  Interesting stuff, although most 
> visitors are quite elderly.
>
> obcomp:  They have paystubs on exhibit, apparently produced by an
> NCR bookkeeping machine designed for payroll.  But I read they got
> an IBM 650.  Since a lot of workers were paid by piecework, payroll
> processing must've been complex.
>

AFAIK, the biggest steelmaker in the  UK ia closeing down. A problem
with getting coke, I think.



-- 
greymaus
 .
  .
...

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#159369

From"hgww" <hgww@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-15 04:48 +1100
Message-ID<dibsvkFh5h1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#159349

<mausg@mail.com> wrote in message news:slrnnc171g.196.mausg@smaus.org...
> On 2016-02-14, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 3:54:44 PM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Fifteen or so blacksmiths, attending a nearby workshop, were
>>> there to see how the Big Dogs did it.  We did get to see the open
>>> hearth furnace dumped into a giant ladle, degassed and run into a
>>> mould.
>>
>> I've seen that on TV.  The tapping of a furnace is supposed to be
>> quite neat to watch.
>>
>> I have a book on steel-making.  There's all sorts of variations on
>> how they handle the steel depending on what resultant qualities are
>> desired.  Lot of chemistry is involved.
>>
>> As I understand it, the US steel industry was pretty static for decades
>> until they finally woke up and realized they had to get more competitive
>> with the rest of world.  So, around 1985, they got serious and eventually
>> made significant improvements to the resultant quality.  Unfortunately,
>> for many companies, like Bethlehem and LTV, it was too late.  US Steel is
>> still in business, but much smaller.
>>
>> The Roebling Works, that made the cable for the Brooklyn bridge, closed
>> their specialty mill down in the 1970s.   The gate house was preserved
>> and turned into a little museum about the mill (everything else was
>> demolished and required a cleanup).  Interesting stuff, although most
>> visitors are quite elderly.
>>
>> obcomp:  They have paystubs on exhibit, apparently produced by an
>> NCR bookkeeping machine designed for payroll.  But I read they got
>> an IBM 650.  Since a lot of workers were paid by piecework, payroll
>> processing must've been complex.
>>
>
> AFAIK, the biggest steelmaker in the  UK ia closeing down.

Yes.

A problem
> with getting coke, I think.

No, the problem is the world over supply of iron and steel making capacity
and the much higher labor costs in the UK compared with in China and
India and what dinosaurs the UK steel making operation is now. 

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