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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #157616 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300 |
| Last post | 2016-01-30 20:36 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 381 — 58 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 15:45 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 10:53 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 04:48 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-01-26 14:14 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-26 17:21 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 10:58 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 16:17 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-25 11:47 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2016-01-25 16:47 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-25 17:41 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2016-01-25 19:25 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-01-25 16:15 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 13:17 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-26 08:20 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-26 11:32 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:23 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:20 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2016-01-27 19:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> - 2016-01-27 22:40 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 15:07 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:34 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:38 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 23:55 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:32 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:31 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-27 21:10 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:49 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:33 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:00 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 00:48 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 21:02 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 07:32 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:32 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:03 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 20:58 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 10:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 19:11 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-29 23:21 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 03:45 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:25 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-01 17:45 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-01 21:29 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 00:33 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 03:04 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:42 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:40 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:39 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 22:35 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-03 23:59 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 06:03 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:24 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 10:51 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:12 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-04 19:29 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:26 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-05 02:51 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-05 10:45 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 10:47 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 10:21 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-06 08:06 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 10:02 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:20 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 04:41 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-17 07:45 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:18 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-05 20:35 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-05 23:12 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-06 01:34 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-06 07:39 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 14:02 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 10:01 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 19:36 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 11:45 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:14 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:35 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 18:19 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:45 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:08 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-05 19:05 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 21:32 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:49 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-01 21:18 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 02:59 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:38 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 18:58 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:46 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:14 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-27 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:26 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-26 17:57 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:35 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-26 14:53 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 09:58 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 11:05 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 11:41 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 12:38 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 15:26 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:25 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:38 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 07:54 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:39 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2016-01-26 21:16 +0200
Re: DEC and The Americans "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-28 10:07 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:48 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:43 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-02-03 00:36 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:42 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-03 14:25 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:58 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-04 15:14 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:01 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 04:42 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-06 11:45 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-06 18:09 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 15:49 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-07 05:33 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-07 11:12 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-07 11:42 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-07 20:06 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:06 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:52 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:56 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 12:33 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 16:34 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:08 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:10 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-04 13:42 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-04 14:23 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-05 14:32 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:05 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 10:34 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:08 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-05 15:34 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-06 14:45 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:05 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-07 12:07 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-07 19:56 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:53 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:11 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:49 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:43 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-06 13:18 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:08 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 14:22 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:52 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-06 16:38 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 20:09 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:36 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 06:18 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:10 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-07 19:24 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:45 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 04:16 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 12:22 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 11:16 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-09 13:55 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:49 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:11 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:47 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:01 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 16:13 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:49 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-07 12:12 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:26 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:09 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:56 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:59 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 14:38 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 15:56 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:17 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:03 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:09 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-09 17:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 10:36 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:08 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:10 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 02:52 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-11 11:20 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:58 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:57 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-11 21:22 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-11 17:07 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 17:11 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-11 15:32 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-11 17:56 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:36 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-12 00:35 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:47 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:04 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:22 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2016-02-12 23:19 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:42 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:32 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:58 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 15:35 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-11 17:47 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-12 12:22 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 07:23 -0700
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-12 14:50 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 01:39 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:17 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:50 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-13 08:48 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:54 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 19:06 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 03:50 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-14 14:11 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 07:35 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:37 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 05:09 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 17:05 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:07 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 19:35 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:33 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 17:58 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 03:08 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-15 08:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 10:07 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 16:25 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:43 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 22:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 00:36 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-16 21:25 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-17 09:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 15:04 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 14:57 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:09 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2016-02-17 01:08 +0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 18:55 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-14 15:24 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 04:48 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:40 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 11:42 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:29 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 06:02 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 17:22 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:13 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:45 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 00:16 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-15 21:00 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-16 15:29 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:47 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 18:54 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-13 22:05 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:54 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-13 16:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-13 18:05 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans roger.ivie@gmail.com - 2016-02-13 11:18 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-02-15 22:19 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:47 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:44 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:18 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-09 18:42 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:09 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Warren Adams <adamswa@hiwaay.net> - 2016-02-08 17:00 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-09 03:18 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-08 08:14 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:46 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 16:50 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:13 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:26 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 18:26 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:26 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:16 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:05 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:49 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:47 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 19:01 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-10 07:34 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-11 04:30 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:40 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:03 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 15:51 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:09 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-11 18:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:59 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-12 08:13 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-12 12:42 -0600
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:46 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-12 12:20 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:33 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2016-01-25 17:27 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-25 11:18 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-25 10:24 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 06:14 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 17:53 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "kipg" <io@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 10:40 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:40 +1100
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 19:12 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:22 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-26 16:20 +0100
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:37 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:58 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:16 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 18:14 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:34 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:03 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:07 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-27 17:31 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-28 10:17 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-28 07:26 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:36 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-28 10:31 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-29 14:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 20:12 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 21:11 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 19:30 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-01-29 21:20 -0400
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-30 12:48 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-31 11:17 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-02 15:09 -0800
Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:40 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 14:42 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-01 16:03 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 17:11 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans bleep@compy.0-0 (Colonel Bleep) - 2016-01-30 07:07 +0000
Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:43 -0500
Re: DEC and The Americans Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 20:36 +0000
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300 |
| Subject | DEC and The Americans |
| Message-ID | <dgmpjsF24gvU2@mid.individual.net> |
Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off. Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks. At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show. That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in the basement to which you could connect) to do business. What would you do with them? Word processing, maybe database work, but would they have invested in custom software for something or other - processing visas or equivalent? Then I thought, the Soviets had their own hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would run the [very real] risk of backdoors). In 1982 would VT100s still have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and bureaucracy? Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers. If surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for something serious in the workplace. Other than software-as-a-service, why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider (read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house. It might look different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so inevitable? I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, quietly keeping everything in-house. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100 [3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 15:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnacgoa.18i.mausg@smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #157616 |
On 2016-01-25, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're > not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about > 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing > off. > > Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian > embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features > a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's > desks. > > At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the > terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the > desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: > the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond > with the show. > > That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic > mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in > the basement to which you could connect) to do business. What would > you do with them? Word processing, maybe database work, but would they > have invested in custom software for something or other - processing > visas or equivalent? Then I thought, the Soviets had their own > hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something > native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would > run the [very real] risk of backdoors). In 1982 would VT100s still > have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they > have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and > bureaucracy? > > Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data > and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no > uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): > I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers. If > surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for > something serious in the workplace. Other than software-as-a-service, > why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider > (read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house. It might look > different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and > a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so > inevitable? I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a > terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, > quietly keeping everything in-house. > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series) > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100 > [3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath > probably the DEC did the job, and the staff were used to them. -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 10:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <1032542313.475429732.873695.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #157621 |
<mausg@mail.com> wrote: > On 2016-01-25, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're >> not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about >> 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing >> off. >> >> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian >> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features >> a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's >> desks. >> >> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the >> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the >> desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: >> the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond >> with the show. >> >> That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic >> mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in >> the basement to which you could connect) to do business. What would >> you do with them? Word processing, maybe database work, but would they >> have invested in custom software for something or other - processing >> visas or equivalent? Then I thought, the Soviets had their own >> hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something >> native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would >> run the [very real] risk of backdoors). In 1982 would VT100s still >> have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they >> have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and >> bureaucracy? >> >> Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data >> and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no >> uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): >> I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers. If >> surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for >> something serious in the workplace. Other than software-as-a-service, >> why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider >> (read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house. It might look >> different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and >> a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so >> inevitable? I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a >> terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, >> quietly keeping everything in-house. >> >> >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series) >> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100 >> [3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath >> > > probably the DEC did the job, and the staff were used to them. > > Second the vote on the show, it's terriffic. I think most of the staff would have been native Russians (or USSRians), but Russian equipment at the time was way behind the US, and DEC equipment, or East German clones, would have been used in Russia. DEC stuff was multi-lingual, but so was IBM. There was less concern about back-doors in those days because there was no internet and a lot of stuff was still hardwired. -- Pete
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00052A3D14B5F29D@aca46c41.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #157622 |
Peter Flass wrote: > <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >> On 2016-01-25, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're >>> not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about >>> 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing >>> off. >>> >>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian >>> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features >>> a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's >>> desks. >>> >>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the >>> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the >>> desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: >>> the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond >>> with the show. >>> >>> That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic >>> mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in >>> the basement to which you could connect) to do business. What would >>> you do with them? Word processing, maybe database work, but would they >>> have invested in custom software for something or other - processing >>> visas or equivalent? Then I thought, the Soviets had their own >>> hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something >>> native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would >>> run the [very real] risk of backdoors). In 1982 would VT100s still >>> have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they >>> have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and >>> bureaucracy? >>> >>> Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data >>> and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no >>> uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): >>> I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers. If >>> surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for >>> something serious in the workplace. Other than software-as-a-service, >>> why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider >>> (read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house. It might look >>> different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and >>> a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so >>> inevitable? I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a >>> terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, >>> quietly keeping everything in-house. >>> >>> >>> >>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series) >>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100 >>> [3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath >>> >> >> probably the DEC did the job, and the staff were used to them. >> >> > > Second the vote on the show, it's terriffic. > > I think most of the staff would have been native Russians (or USSRians), > but Russian equipment at the time was way behind the US, and DEC equipment, > or East German clones, would have been used in Russia. After the Berlin wall fell, JMF learned about fUSSR computing. He was awed by what their hard/software engineers managed to get done with the crap they had to work with. He also shuddered at the thought of what mihgt have happened if the fUSSR had gotten "modern" hardware. > DEC stuff was > multi-lingual, but so was IBM. There was less concern about back-doors in > those days because there was no internet and a lot of stuff was still > hardwired. <AHEM> You are wrong. Back doors were a security problem when I started working on computers. If there was any comm access into a computer, there could be a backdoor. /BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-27 04:48 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dgppqvFpmoaU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #157752 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM00052A3D14B5F29D@aca46c41.ipt.aol.com... > Peter Flass wrote: >> <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>> On 2016-01-25, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >>>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're >>>> not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about >>>> 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing >>>> off. >>>> >>>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian >>>> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features >>>> a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's >>>> desks. >>>> >>>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the >>>> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the >>>> desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: >>>> the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond >>>> with the show. >>>> >>>> That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic >>>> mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in >>>> the basement to which you could connect) to do business. What would >>>> you do with them? Word processing, maybe database work, but would they >>>> have invested in custom software for something or other - processing >>>> visas or equivalent? Then I thought, the Soviets had their own >>>> hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something >>>> native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would >>>> run the [very real] risk of backdoors). In 1982 would VT100s still >>>> have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they >>>> have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and >>>> bureaucracy? >>>> >>>> Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data >>>> and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no >>>> uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): >>>> I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers. If >>>> surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for >>>> something serious in the workplace. Other than software-as-a-service, >>>> why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider >>>> (read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house. It might look >>>> different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and >>>> a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so >>>> inevitable? I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a >>>> terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, >>>> quietly keeping everything in-house. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series) >>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100 >>>> [3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath >>>> >>> >>> probably the DEC did the job, and the staff were used to them. >>> >>> >> >> Second the vote on the show, it's terriffic. >> >> I think most of the staff would have been native Russians (or USSRians), >> but Russian equipment at the time was way behind the US, and DEC >> equipment, >> or East German clones, would have been used in Russia. > > After the Berlin wall fell, JMF learned about fUSSR computing. He was > awed by what their hard/software engineers managed to get done with the > crap they had to work with. He also shuddered at the thought of what > mihgt have happened if the fUSSR had gotten "modern" hardware. And now that they can have anything they want, nothing has happened in that regard. >> DEC stuff was >> multi-lingual, but so was IBM. There was less concern about back-doors >> in >> those days because there was no internet and a lot of stuff was still >> hardwired. > > <AHEM> You are wrong. Back doors were a security problem when I started > working on computers. If there was any comm access into a computer, > there could be a backdoor.
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| From | terry-groups@glaver.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 14:14 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <95b8b08e-0b5b-4bbb-b7f8-1f838259db5f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #157752 |
On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:57:27 AM UTC-5, jmfbahciv wrote: > After the Berlin wall fell, JMF learned about fUSSR computing. He was > awed by what their hard/software engineers managed to get done with the > crap they had to work with. He also shuddered at the thought of what > mihgt have happened if the fUSSR had gotten "modern" hardware. There is a lot of misinformation out there on the various Soviet PDP-11 clones. Part of this is the "Wikipedia feedback loop", but even that doesn't explain some of it. I have here on my desk an 11/73 clone CPU. It looks just like a DEC DCJ11 except that it has a thin blue substrate instead of the thick white ceramic of the genuine DEC part. I've also seen these CPUs with a green or white substrate. It looks like it might be a drop-in replacement for the DEC part. I also have what I believe is an 11/23 clone. It doesn't have any direct DEC equivalent - it is built on a 46-pin substrate about as wide as the DCJ11, but not as long. It has 4 chips mounted on that substrate. These parts have dates in 1988 and 1989. I don't know how long before that they were being made, although the Soviets were certainly capable of copying 7400-based PDP-11 systems long before that - they had copied the 74181 and the 2901 bit-slice building blocks early on. Here is a picture of the Soviet clone CPUs (genuine DCJ11 included for reference): https://www.glaver.org/transient/DSCF1285-s.jpg I remember hearing a story (which may or may not be true) about some of the first VAX 8600s being "mislaid" while being shipped from DEC to a customer and then turning up in the Soviet Union.
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 17:21 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1601261721110.12366@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #157832 |
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, terry-groups@glaver.org wrote: > I remember hearing a story (which may or may not be true) about some of > the first VAX 8600s being "mislaid" while being shipped from DEC to a > customer and then turning up in the Soviet Union. > That sounds vaguely familiar. Though, at this point I may have heard it as a story in a newsgroup, like this one. Michael
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00052A525DBD31DD@aca4109b.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #157832 |
terry-groups@glaver.org wrote: > On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:57:27 AM UTC-5, jmfbahciv wrote: >> After the Berlin wall fell, JMF learned about fUSSR computing. He was >> awed by what their hard/software engineers managed to get done with the >> crap they had to work with. He also shuddered at the thought of what >> mihgt have happened if the fUSSR had gotten "modern" hardware. > > There is a lot of misinformation out there on the various Soviet PDP-11 clones. Part of this is the "Wikipedia feedback loop", but even that doesn't explain some of it. One of the problems with successful development in the fUSSR is the restrictions their hard/software engineers had. their politicians managed all the developments of engineering, science and manufaturing. With those kinds of extreme restrictions (where breaking the rules would kill you), it's understanable that they would have to resort to reverse engineering in order to have any computing power the country needed for defense. These were very, very, very bright people who had their hands tied behind their backs and their thumbs duck-taped to opposing walls. Now consider what they did acomplish; that's why JMF was in awe of their work. <snip> I picked up two Russian programming text books at the Southboro dump. What's amaing is that I can understand quite a bit. Computer langaage is the universal language :-). /BAH
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 10:58 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1601251056460.9361@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #157616 |
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote: > Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're not, I > can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982 Washington > DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off. > > Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian embassy to > the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of > prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks. > > At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the terminals > look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of the > FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 reigned > from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show. > But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. Michael
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 16:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnaciks.18g.mausg@smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #157623 |
On 2016-01-25, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote: > >> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If you're not, I >> can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982 Washington >> DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off. >> >> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian embassy to >> the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of >> prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks. >> >> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the terminals >> look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of the >> FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 reigned >> from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show. >> > But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer Choke, laugh. > stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying > outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was > often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. Exactly. > > Michael -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 11:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <n85jdo$ud5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #157623 |
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote: > >> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1] If >> you're not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in >> about 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI >> are facing off. >> >> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian >> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) >> features a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing >> everyone's desks. >> >> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the >> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on >> the desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be >> accurate: the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would >> correspond with the show. >> > But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some > computer stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if > not, buying outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I > thought was often lacking. They had to spend it on the important > things. Don't need a DEC computer to find a VT100 useful. My first exposure to Unix was at Bell Labs where they used all kinds of terminals. Quite an eye opener after only being familiar with the IBM 2260 and IBM 3270. -- Dan Espen
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| From | John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 16:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n85jju$15lh$1@miucha.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #157623 |
>But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in the U.S. So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they could well have similar looking home made ones.
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| From | Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 17:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnacni5.a8q.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #157628 |
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote: >>But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >>stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. > > At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer > made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of > S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in > the U.S. > > So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they > could well have similar looking home made ones. > The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I passed... There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling these, but he *won't* ship to the US. -- Stan Barr plan.b@bluesomatic.org
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| From | mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 19:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <XEupy.302957$Mi6.12970@fx35.am4> |
| In reply to | #157633 |
On 25/01/2016 17:41, Stan Barr wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote: >>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >> >> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >> the U.S. >> >> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >> could well have similar looking home made ones. >> > > The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last > year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I > passed... > > There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling > these, but he *won't* ship to the US. > Well America wouldn't ship to the USSR when they wanted them either. Karma payback!
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| From | Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 16:15 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <n863ac$5dn$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #157633 |
On 25/01/2016 12:41 PM, Stan Barr wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote: >>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >> >> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >> the U.S. >> >> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >> could well have similar looking home made ones. >> > > The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last > year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I > passed... > > There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling > these, but he *won't* ship to the US. > I spent a day at the the University of Havana in the mid 70's. There was a hand wired running PDP 8 there. It wasn't a classical copy but a re-implementation of the PDP8 ISA with 7400 series logic parts or clone parts. It ran a 3 or 4 line Basic program I typed in during the tour I had of the lab it was in. w..
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-25 13:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1601251315180.9697@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #157628 |
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote: >> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. > > At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer > made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of > S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in > the U.S. > > So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they > could well have similar looking home made ones. > > Yes. There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a few, basically copies of US computers. But they also had copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs rather than the single IC in the US. SO that was an indication that they were lagging in what they could produce. Michael
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| From | Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 08:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnaeb2s.8je.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #157638 |
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote: > >>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >> >> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >> the U.S. >> >> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >> could well have similar looking home made ones. >> >> > Yes. There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close > to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a > few, basically copies of US computers. But they also had > copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs > rather than the single IC in the US. SO that was an indication that they > were lagging in what they could produce. > > Michael > The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit like a large Apple ][. Probably a bit too expensive new for any average Soviet worker! Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKNC -- Stan Barr plan.b@bluesomatic.org
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 11:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnaemat.195.mausg@smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #157732 |
On 2016-01-26, Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote: >> >>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some computer >>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >>> >>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >>> the U.S. >>> >>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >>> could well have similar looking home made ones. >>> >>> >> Yes. There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close >> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a >> few, basically copies of US computers. But they also had >> copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs >> rather than the single IC in the US. SO that was an indication that they >> were lagging in what they could produce. >> >> Michael >> > > The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit > like a large Apple ][. Probably a bit too expensive new for any > average Soviet worker! > > Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKNC > From my memories of the time, Bulgaria was selected as the country to lead the warsaw pact into the computer age, and streams started in the educational system there to do that. Only real result was virus creation, and some part of tetris. Accounts of the Hungarian Revolution was that people broke into the secret police headquarters, while the secret police were working on which side to go, and were amazed at how up-to-date the equipment was. -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 17:23 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n88v0j$lnt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #157732 |
"Stan Barr" <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote in message news:slrnnaeb2s.8je.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de... > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote: >> >>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some >>>> computer >>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, >>>> buying >>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >>> >>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >>> the U.S. >>> >>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >>> could well have similar looking home made ones. >>> >>> >> Yes. There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably >> close >> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a >> few, basically copies of US computers. But they also had >> copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs >> rather than the single IC in the US. SO that was an indication that they >> were lagging in what they could produce. >> >> Michael >> > > The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit > like a large Apple ][. Probably a bit too expensive new for any > average Soviet worker! > ISTM that the "average Soviet worker" would *not* be allowed to own a computer. Even back in the 80s, one could get five years hard labor in prison... for owning an unlicensed copy machine. -- numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| From | "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-26 17:20 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n88uq5$l31$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #157638 |
"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1601251315180.9697@darkstar.example.org... > On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote: > >>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers? I thought at least some >>> computer >>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold. And even if not, buying >>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was >>> often lacking. They had to spend it on the important things. >> >> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer >> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of >> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in >> the U.S. >> >> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they >> could well have similar looking home made ones. >> >> > Yes. There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close > to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a > few, basically copies of US computers. But they also had copies of US > microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs > rather than the single IC in the US. SO that was an indication that they > were lagging in what they could produce. > The Soviets reached a point in the development of their digital electronics... where they decided it was more effective to *steal* Western technology than to design their own. I remember a 60 Minutes segment many years ago; they showed a microscopic picture of a Russian-built 1 k memory chip. The micrograph of the chip still had the Intel logo etched into it. -- numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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