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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #155734 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800 |
| Last post | 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 320 — 37 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-01 13:33 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 12:05 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-02 04:41 -0400
Re: I Feel Old "Joe Morris" <j.c.morris@verizon.net> - 2016-01-02 11:50 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 17:14 +0000
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:36 -0800
Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:07 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 15:06 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:59 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:44 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:24 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 09:45 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:12 -0700
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-03 16:56 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 14:27 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-03 23:53 +0000
Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-04 07:42 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 14:32 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 16:55 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-04 11:41 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:37 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:11 -0700
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:48 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-04 16:01 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 16:23 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-03 17:30 -0400
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-04 14:55 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:15 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:59 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 13:31 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-05 22:11 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 17:07 -0800
Re: I Feel Old philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-01-06 19:21 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-01 21:33 +0000
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-01 22:52 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 15:57 -0800
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:52 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-02 00:45 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 06:40 +0000
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:25 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:18 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:34 -0800
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-02 14:27 +0000
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:28 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-02 19:56 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-03 10:00 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-17 08:48 -0800
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:44 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:42 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:15 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 11:27 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-06 12:02 -0600
Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-06 18:52 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 18:06 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:22 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 15:55 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:36 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:47 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:47 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 19:23 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 10:58 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-08 06:37 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 15:53 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 11:26 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:53 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:24 +0100
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:06 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:42 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 07:07 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:55 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:40 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:13 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-09 13:36 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 15:30 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-08 10:43 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:33 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:46 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:59 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:44 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:53 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 12:53 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:29 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:26 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:22 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 10:03 +1100
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-12 21:01 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 14:22 +1100
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-13 10:14 -0800
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-13 18:51 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 07:02 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 13:06 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:51 +1100
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 06:01 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 13:21 -0600
Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-08 20:58 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 20:36 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:31 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:33 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-09 12:59 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:31 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 17:22 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-09 17:07 -0800
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-10 11:25 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 17:08 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:43 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 08:44 -0800
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 09:52 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 12:28 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 10:58 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:49 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 13:57 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500
Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 16:59 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 13:13 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:55 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:40 +0000
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:20 +0000
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:29 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:30 +0100
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 10:59 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 19:48 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:27 -0800
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 16:26 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:27 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:08 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 14:43 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:38 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 17:47 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 11:18 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-13 19:05 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-14 14:09 -0600
Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-15 14:51 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 09:48 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 17:26 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 09:20 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-15 17:44 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 12:57 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-19 12:42 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-19 15:27 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 19:15 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:44 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-15 15:02 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-16 08:58 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 23:51 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 16:01 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 17:11 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 08:03 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 08:29 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 03:38 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:59 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:45 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 02:11 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 14:02 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:22 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 05:09 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:00 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-18 03:59 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 16:15 +0100
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:39 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 04:41 +1100
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 16:33 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 11:19 -0600
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 18:36 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-16 17:23 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:01 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-16 20:55 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-16 14:53 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 05:43 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:50 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:33 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:19 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 19:27 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:00 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 22:49 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 16:12 +1100
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:32 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 12:06 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-17 10:05 -0500
Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-17 15:26 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 05:14 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:38 -0600
Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-16 14:09 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 15:19 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-15 19:29 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 14:25 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 13:46 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-14 05:17 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-14 13:11 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:37 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-05 04:44 -0400
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 11:06 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 17:04 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0800
Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-02 15:01 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 15:58 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:40 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:31 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:06 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 07:09 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:11 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 20:42 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-04 16:43 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 22:05 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:21 +0100
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-04 17:47 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:26 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:57 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:46 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:36 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-07 13:43 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 15:35 +1100
Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 00:15 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 19:41 +1100
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 12:44 -0800
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-07 21:32 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:51 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 12:59 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:35 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 19:24 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 17:31 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 07:38 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 06:50 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 13:26 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:49 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:32 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 07:13 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 16:08 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:39 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-06 09:14 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:45 -0600
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:42 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 14:20 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:34 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 19:52 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 12:35 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 20:54 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:44 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 23:48 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:38 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-07 07:46 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:44 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:47 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 05:45 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 12:18 +0000
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:12 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 13:40 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 08:15 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:48 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:29 -0500
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:20 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 06:54 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:34 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:40 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:39 -0500
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:43 -0600
Re: I Feel Old JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:13 -0600
Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:26 -0500
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:37 -0600
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:25 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-02 21:35 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:34 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:33 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-03 15:17 -0500
Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:52 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 05:09 -0800
Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:57 -0600
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:46 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-01-02 07:00 +0000
Re: I Feel Old Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2016-01-02 01:44 -0700
Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 13:46 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-02 09:11 -0800
Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-02 11:49 -0600
Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:14 -0600
Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.30ff542212317859989df1@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #156549 |
In article <8b4050ca-56e4-44e5-af12-5f06d2796316@googlegroups.com>, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... > > On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 3:49:43 PM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > > > > Supply chain management--and transportation--has gotten a lot better > > since then, but partly it's business school fads. The trend for the > > last few decades has been to outsource everything except your "core > > competencies" on the assumption that a company specializing in that > > particular function will do it better--or at least cheaper. Even if > > not, outsourcing work (especially capital-intensive or low-wage work) > > makes your financial reports to Wall St look better, which is more > > important in some ways than actually making money. > > > > Just today the Phila Inqr reported on the breakup of duPont. They > describe how the Koch Bros bought a unit and are milking it dry, not > investing a dime in it, but taking the profits to promote anti-tax > political candidates. > > http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20160112_Cuts_to_DuPont_s_research__business_draw_mixed_reactions.html > > > New owners of duPont do not want to invest anything in R&D. > http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/columnists/joseph-distefano&id=364586981 > > http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/364799621.html And another one of the great ones slowly circles the drain.
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87vb6y45un.fsf@garlic.com> |
| In reply to | #156549 |
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > Just today the Phila Inqr reported on the breakup of duPont. They > describe how the Koch Bros bought a unit and are milking it dry, not > investing a dime in it, but taking the profits to promote anti-tax > political candidates. > > http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20160112_Cuts_to_DuPont_s_research__business_draw_mixed_reactions.html > > New owners of duPont do not want to invest anything in R&D. > http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/columnists/joseph-distefano&id=364586981 > > http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/364799621.html standard process for private-equity http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity there is "Smedley Butler" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler with "War Is a Racket" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket perpetual war http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#perpetual.war but also (Prescott Bush): Business Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot 1934: The Plot Against America http://harpers.org/blog/2007/07/1934-the-plot-against-america/ How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar Prescott Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush and Father of Koch Brothers Helped Build Nazi Oil Refinery, Book Says http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/us/politics/father-of-koch-brothers-helped-build-nazi-oil-refinery-book-says.html But the book is largely focused on the Koch family, stretching back to its involvement in the far-right John Birch Society and the political and business activities of the father, Fred C. Koch, who found some of his earliest business success overseas in the years leading up to World War II. One venture was a partnership with the American Nazi sympathizer William Rhodes Davis, who, according to Ms. Mayer, hired Mr. Koch to help build the third-largest oil refinery in the Third Reich, a critical industrial cog in Hitler's war machine. ... snip ... June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the Waldorf-Astoria with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to hear how to do business with the Nazis, Intrepid, loc1901-4: One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was Torkild Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British blockade. The company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's instigation, about violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set up an elaborate scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through neutral ports in South America. With the Germans now preparing to turn the English Channel into what Churchill thought would become "river of blood," other industrialists were eager to learn from Texaco how to do more business with Hitler. ... snip ... VP (& former replacement CIA director) ... claims no knowledge of such activities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair because he was fulltime administration point person deregulating financial industry ... creating S&L crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis along with other members of his family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis#Silverado_Savings_and_Loan and another http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE0D81E3BF937A25753C1A966958260 and another presides over the economic mess, 70 times larger than S&L crisis. also Lehman's Gift To Jeb Bush For Funneling Pension Money: A $1.3 Million Consulting "Job" http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-19/lehmans-gift-jeb-bush-funneling-pension-money-13-million-consulting-job more recent: Wall Street Fine Print: Retirees Want FBI Probe Of Pension Investment Deals http://www.ibtimes.com/wall-street-fine-print-retirees-want-fbi-probe-pension-investment-deals-2250476 John Foster Dulles plays major role in rebuilding German's economy and military ... recent references http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#35 Royal Pardon For Turing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#36 Royal Pardon For Turing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#26 channel islands, definitely not the location of LEO http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#62 IBM Data Processing Center and Pi http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#13 Keydriven bit permutations http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#52 IBM Data Processing Center and Pi http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#68 Why do we have wars? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#69 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#71 Why do we have wars? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#78 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#86 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#35 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#45 The Battle of Bretton Woods: John Maynard Keynes, Harry Dexter White, and the Making of a New World Order http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#51 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#70 God No, the U.S. Air Force Doesn't Need Another Curtis LeMay http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#13 Fully Restored WWII Fighter Plane Up for Auction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#37 End of vacuum tubes in computers? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#53 Western Union envisioned internet functionality http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#29 Eric Holder Returns as Hero to Law Firm That Lobbies for Big Banks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#36 Eric Holder, Wall Street Double Agent, Comes in From the Cold http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#77 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#7 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#10 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#55 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#0 How Corporate America Invented Christian America; Inside one reverend's big business-backed 1940s crusade to make the country conservative again http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#26 Putin's Great Crime: He Defends His Allies and Attacks His Enemies http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#28 rationality http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#119 For those who like to regress to their youth? :-) When 1943 Strategic Bombing Program was looking for plans and location of German military and industrial targets, they got the information from wallstreet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87r3hm42nt.fsf@garlic.com> |
| In reply to | #156503 |
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > In additional to Defense, which they can't spend enough on, Republicans > are also big on public safety, such as more cops, more equipment for > cops, and prisons. there has been big upswing in militarizing the police force, giving all sort of "surplus" military gear to police departments ... so military can turn around and declare a shortage of military gear justifying new military procurements, recent reference http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#92 prices, was Western Union envisioned internet functionality part of the enormous upswing in privatizing government especially last decade ... has been the privatizing of prisons ... and associated enormous corruption. How Corrupt Is The US: An Extraordinary Example http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-12/how-corrupt-us-extraordinary-example related theme How Corrupt Is the American Government http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/01/corrupt-american-government.html past posts mentioning private prisons http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#37 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#43 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#61 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#82 copyright protection/Doug Englebart http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#34 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#25 Royal Pardon For Turing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#74 prices, was Western Union envisioned internet functionality http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#85 prices, was Western Union envisioned internet functionality http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#27 OT: efforts to repeal strict public safety laws recent posts mentioning congress considered the most corrupt institution on earth: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#70 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#87 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#69 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#80 'Big four' accountants 'use knowledge of Treasury to help rich avoid tax' http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#81 Ireland feels the heat from Apple tax row http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#55 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#79 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#94 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#78 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#32 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#50 Broadband pricing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#81 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#1 weird apple trivia http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#48 These are the companies abandoning the U.S. to dodge taxes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#80 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#96 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#10 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#13 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#48 Protecting Social Security from the Thieves in the Night http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#22 I Feel Old http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#24 1976 vs. 2016? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n6omtf01q81@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #156232 |
On 2016-01-08, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote: > On 07-Jan-16 11:36, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > >> Some elders have lived in a location for a long time. They may have >> no mortgage, but some old neighborhoods (or houses) decay and aren't >> worth very much to sell (or need expensive fixing up.) > > If it's not worth much, then the property taxes shouldn't be onerous. A broken-down house might not have much of an assessed value. But around here, even a house in decent shape doesn't count for much. It's the land it's sitting on that has the value. Standard practice around here is to buy a property (or group of adjacent properties), knock down the buildings, and put up condos. If the developers are patient, reverse mortgages are a relatively painless way to get rid of the existing occupants. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <87wprinu9k.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> |
| In reply to | #156257 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > A broken-down house might not have much of an assessed value. But > around here, even a house in decent shape doesn't count for much. > It's the land it's sitting on that has the value. Standard practice > around here is to buy a property (or group of adjacent properties), > knock down the buildings, and put up condos. If the developers are > patient, reverse mortgages are a relatively painless way to get rid > of the existing occupants. My house in Mtn View had negative value to the tax assesor. The empty lot was valued at $500K, and having the built-in-the-60s hovel sitting on it *REDUCED* the tax basis to $465K. --NK1G
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n6sjrm$nl0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #156339 |
On 09-Jan-16 18:38, Lawrence Statton wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >> A broken-down house might not have much of an assessed value. But >> around here, even a house in decent shape doesn't count for much. >> It's the land it's sitting on that has the value. Standard >> practice around here is to buy a property (or group of adjacent >> properties), knock down the buildings, and put up condos. If the >> developers are patient, reverse mortgages are a relatively painless >> way to get rid of the existing occupants. > > My house in Mtn View had negative value to the tax assesor. The > empty lot was valued at $500K, and having the built-in-the-60s hovel > sitting on it *REDUCED* the tax basis to $465K. IOW, the net teardown cost was $35k. That happens a lot with old structures on valuable land because the structure is not the "highest and best use" allowed by zoning. In rare cases, a property's FMV can go negative if teardown cost (or similar, e.g. toxic waste cleanup) exceeds land value. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <dfe6kpFp2g3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #156341 |
"Stephen Sprunk" wrote: > In rare cases, a property's FMV can go negative if teardown cost (or > similar, e.g. toxic waste cleanup) exceeds land value. I wonder if that was a factor in Detroit's bankruptcy? I assusme those miles of houses are owned by the city or county by now. And I would expect any honest valuation would show that they have a net negative value. The optimum use of the land would probably be to grow radishes or something like that.
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n723vo$ue3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #156343 |
On 09-Jan-16 22:56, Osmium wrote: > "Stephen Sprunk" wrote: >> In rare cases, a property's FMV can go negative if teardown cost >> (or similar, e.g. toxic waste cleanup) exceeds land value. > > I wonder if that was a factor in Detroit's bankruptcy? Specifically, Detroit couldn't cover its pension obligations. However, that was not really a surprise; property values in Detroit had been falling for decades, partly due to White Flight and partly due to the loss of so many auto manufacturing jobs to RTW states, Mexico and Canada. While similarly declining cities tried to gentrify and attract new industries (and yuppies) to revitalize their tax base, politicians in Detroit embraced their city's decline. The result was inevitable; if it hadn't been the real estate bubble bursting that tipped them over the line into bankruptcy, it would have been something else a few years later. > I assusme those miles of houses are owned by the city or county by > now. Michigan has one of the most aggressive "land bank" programs in the US, in large part to artificially reduce housing supply and thus drive up the price for the remaining ones, but also because vacant and abandoned houses have _much_ higher crime (especially arson) rates, which drives up the cost of public services, and spreading out the occupied houses drives up utility and road costs too. > And I would expect any honest valuation would show that they have > a net negative value. Probably some of them; shortly after the bubble burst, the median house price in Detroit had dropped to $18k. That made it very easy to start up land banks, and every dollar spent buying vacant or abandoned houses paid back more than a dollar in increased property taxes on the rest. > The optimum use of the land would probably be to grow radishes or > something like that. I read various plans at the time for the banked land, but I haven't heard which (if any) was actually implemented. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <64a1e0ee-46a8-4b2e-8330-a3fc9a92b1e2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #156471 |
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 12:49:15 AM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > On 09-Jan-16 22:56, Osmium wrote: > > I wonder if that was a factor in Detroit's bankruptcy? > > Specifically, Detroit couldn't cover its pension obligations. I believe pensions were only a small part of Detroit's problem, it was it bonded debt that was overwhelming. Despite that everyone knew Detroit was worthless, Wall Street kept lending it tons of money. > However, that was not really a surprise; property values in Detroit had > been falling for decades, partly due to White Flight and partly due to > the loss of so many auto manufacturing jobs to RTW states, Mexico and > Canada. > While similarly declining cities tried to gentrify and attract new > industries (and yuppies) to revitalize their tax base, politicians in > Detroit embraced their city's decline. And also corruption and inefficiency.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <1495046056.474307313.357981.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #156471 |
Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote: > On 09-Jan-16 22:56, Osmium wrote: >> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote: >>> In rare cases, a property's FMV can go negative if teardown cost >>> (or similar, e.g. toxic waste cleanup) exceeds land value. >> >> I wonder if that was a factor in Detroit's bankruptcy? > > Specifically, Detroit couldn't cover its pension obligations. > > However, that was not really a surprise; property values in Detroit had > been falling for decades, partly due to White Flight and partly due to > the loss of so many auto manufacturing jobs to RTW states, Mexico and > Canada. > > While similarly declining cities tried to gentrify and attract new > industries (and yuppies) to revitalize their tax base, politicians in > Detroit embraced their city's decline. > > The result was inevitable; if it hadn't been the real estate bubble > bursting that tipped them over the line into bankruptcy, it would have > been something else a few years later. > >> I assusme those miles of houses are owned by the city or county by >> now. > > Michigan has one of the most aggressive "land bank" programs in the US, > in large part to artificially reduce housing supply and thus drive up > the price for the remaining ones, but also because vacant and abandoned > houses have _much_ higher crime (especially arson) rates, which drives > up the cost of public services, and spreading out the occupied houses > drives up utility and road costs too. > >> And I would expect any honest valuation would show that they have >> a net negative value. > > Probably some of them; shortly after the bubble burst, the median house > price in Detroit had dropped to $18k. That made it very easy to start > up land banks, and every dollar spent buying vacant or abandoned houses > paid back more than a dollar in increased property taxes on the rest. They're trying to condemn whole neighborhoods, so they can bulldoze the houses and then don't have to provide services, which will save them lots of money. I read that Quicken, or the guy that owns Quicken, has bought up a few of the wonderful old buildings downtown and is rehabbing them, trying to re-establish walkable neighborhoods. Also, some neighborhoods have a large number of old Victorian houses that people have been buying for pennies on the dollar to fix up. It may be that the era of bargains is over. > >> The optimum use of the land would probably be to grow radishes or >> something like that. > > I read various plans at the time for the banked land, but I haven't > heard which (if any) was actually implemented. > -- Pete
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n73p7n$87q$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #156505 |
On 12-Jan-16 10:28, Peter Flass wrote: > Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote: >> On 09-Jan-16 22:56, Osmium wrote: >>> I assusme those miles of houses are owned by the city or county >>> by now. >> >> Michigan has one of the most aggressive "land bank" programs in the >> US, in large part to artificially reduce housing supply and thus >> drive up the price for the remaining ones, but also because vacant >> and abandoned houses have _much_ higher crime (especially arson) >> rates, which drives up the cost of public services, and spreading >> out the occupied houses drives up utility and road costs too. >> >>> And I would expect any honest valuation would show that they >>> have a net negative value. >> >> Probably some of them; shortly after the bubble burst, the median >> house price in Detroit had dropped to $18k. That made it very easy >> to start up land banks, and every dollar spent buying vacant or >> abandoned houses paid back more than a dollar in increased property >> taxes on the rest. > > They're trying to condemn whole neighborhoods, They don't really need to condemn them; most owners in blighted areas are quite happy to sell to _anyone_ who will pay a decent price, and they've been trying to do so for years/decades. One of the main functions of land banks is assembling large blocks of land, which can be resold for more than the sum of their parts--or can be turned into parks or other public uses that wouldn't be feasible with a similar total area that was scattered around. Typically, they'll buy up a neighborhood block by block, then rip up the streets in between and connect the blocks together. If a homeowner refuses to sell, there are three choices: offer to trade them for an isolated property in a better area, condemn their property and take it, or use eminent domain. Obviously, there is a public relations benefit to negotiating for mutual benefit, even if it costs a little more in the short term. > so they can bulldoze the houses and then don't have to provide > services, which will save them lots of money. Yes; see above. > I read that Quicken, or the guy that owns Quicken, has bought up a > few of the wonderful old buildings downtown and is rehabbing them, > trying to re-establish walkable neighborhoods. Also, some > neighborhoods have a large number of old Victorian houses that people > have been buying for pennies on the dollar to fix up. It may be that > the era of bargains is over. That's gentrification, which politicians in Detroit had steadfastly resisted until the bankruptcy, rather than land banking. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ffd33d4b-631c-48bc-96cc-a3991f7f1106@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #156545 |
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 3:58:03 PM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > That's gentrification, which politicians in Detroit had steadfastly > resisted until the bankruptcy, rather than land banking. It amazes me that social activists condemn gentrification, or introduce mandates that cripple it. Where were those people when good solid middle class neighborhoods deteriorated and the residents were forced out by crime and decay? Anyway, gentrification brings in critically needed new money, money that will contribute to desperately needed taxes and create jobs in the neighborhood. The poor folks will benefit. Some people say there is a "industry for the poor", that is, people who make money off of poor people or services they're supposed to get. I used to think that was nonsense, but now I'm not so sure.
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n73vb6$b9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #156550 |
On 12-Jan-16 16:01, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > Stephen Sprunk wrote: >> That's gentrification, which politicians in Detroit had >> steadfastly resisted until the bankruptcy, rather than land >> banking. > > It amazes me that social activists condemn gentrification, or > introduce mandates that cripple it. > > Where were those people when good solid middle class neighborhoods > deteriorated and the residents were forced out by crime and decay? The middle-class residents fled to the suburbs and were replaced with lower-class residents--who happened to have a different skin color. "Urban Renewal" earned the nickname "Negro Removal" because that was the primary effect--and probably intent; it's not hard to see why social activists would object. Gentrification is mostly the same thing. > Anyway, gentrification brings in critically needed new money, money > that will contribute to desperately needed taxes and create jobs in > the neighborhood. The poor folks will benefit. The poor folks can no longer afford to live there; they are forced to move elsewhere and thus lose, not benefit, from gentrification. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n73tei120d0@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #156545 |
On 2016-01-12, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote: > On 12-Jan-16 10:28, Peter Flass wrote: > >> I read that Quicken, or the guy that owns Quicken, has bought up a >> few of the wonderful old buildings downtown and is rehabbing them, >> trying to re-establish walkable neighborhoods. Also, some >> neighborhoods have a large number of old Victorian houses that people >> have been buying for pennies on the dollar to fix up. It may be that >> the era of bargains is over. > > That's gentrification, which politicians in Detroit had steadfastly > resisted until the bankruptcy, rather than land banking. Different strokes for different folks. Here in Vancouver, words like "gentrification", "densification", and "renoviction" are the hot buzzwords. A number of newspaper columnists have decried the accelerating trend to bulldoze lovely 100-year-old houses that have created an image that is rapidly disappearing. But they're not the ones with money... -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <88a858d8-979b-46cb-bf5b-1223389d682f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #156232 |
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:23:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > On 07-Jan-16 11:36, hancock4 wrote: > > Selling a home under duress is costly in itself. > > That depends on the market, of course, but if this is likely to become a > problem, then one should do it _before_ one is under duress. Naturally, but sometimes a person doesn't have warning. For example, suppose a major employer contracts. It both closes a major facility and cuts pensions. Pensioners living in such a town suddenly have lost value in their house because everyone needs to go move elsewhere to keep working. > > Some elders have lived in a location for a long time. They may have > > no mortgage, but some old neighborhoods (or houses) decay and aren't > > worth very much to sell (or need expensive fixing up.) > > If it's not worth much, then the property taxes shouldn't be onerous. Sometimes a desperate community will _raise_ property taxes to make up for a shortfall. They'll also raise them to pay for increased social services and police due to being a poor community. It might be stupid economics, but politicians don't think that way. > > Health care, such as a supplemental policy for what Medicare doesn't > > cover, is very expensive. Prescriptions are expensive. > > Indeed, and that's why I pointed out that PBGC doesn't cover _any_ > supplemental benefits, e.g. health or long-term care insurance. Well, here's another example of how employers screw retirees: Let's say the employer (public or private) agreed to pay for retiree health care. At the time it cost $1,000/year per employee in a group plan. The costs became much higher so the employer decides to eliminate the benefit. What employers then do is eliminate _all_ retiree health care coverage. If they wanted to be at least fair about it, they could continue maintaining a group plan (which are a lot cheaper), and keep paying the first $1,000, and letting retirees pay the rest if they chose. Some politicians have said rising health care costs are the patient's fault--they should be shopping around getting the best price. That is total bullsh**. When someone is sick, they aren't in a position to "shop around". Further, patients aren't told what many complex procedures and services will cost until the bill comes. (They tried to pass a law requiring that patients be told up front, but the bill died.)
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.30faa51d635748ef989dbf@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #156267 |
In article <88a858d8-979b-46cb-bf5b-1223389d682f@googlegroups.com>, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... > > On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:23:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > > On 07-Jan-16 11:36, hancock4 wrote: > > > > Selling a home under duress is costly in itself. > > > > That depends on the market, of course, but if this is likely to become a > > problem, then one should do it _before_ one is under duress. > > Naturally, but sometimes a person doesn't have warning. > > For example, suppose a major employer contracts. It both closes a > major facility and cuts pensions. Pensioners living in such a town > suddenly have lost value in their house because everyone needs to > go move elsewhere to keep working. > > > > > Some elders have lived in a location for a long time. They may have > > > no mortgage, but some old neighborhoods (or houses) decay and aren't > > > worth very much to sell (or need expensive fixing up.) > > > > If it's not worth much, then the property taxes shouldn't be onerous. > > Sometimes a desperate community will _raise_ property taxes to > make up for a shortfall. They'll also raise them to pay for > increased social services and police due to being a poor community. > It might be stupid economics, but politicians don't think that way. > > > > > Health care, such as a supplemental policy for what Medicare doesn't > > > cover, is very expensive. Prescriptions are expensive. > > > > Indeed, and that's why I pointed out that PBGC doesn't cover _any_ > > supplemental benefits, e.g. health or long-term care insurance. > > Well, here's another example of how employers screw retirees: > Let's say the employer (public or private) agreed to pay for retiree > health care. At the time it cost $1,000/year per employee in a group > plan. The costs became much higher so the employer decides to > eliminate the benefit. > > What employers then do is eliminate _all_ retiree health care coverage. > If they wanted to be at least fair about it, they could continue > maintaining a group plan (which are a lot cheaper), and keep paying > the first $1,000, and letting retirees pay the rest if they chose. > > Some politicians have said rising health care costs are the patient's > fault--they should be shopping around getting the best price. > That is total bullsh**. When someone is sick, they aren't in a position > to "shop around". Further, patients aren't told what many complex > procedures and services will cost until the bill comes. (They tried > to pass a law requiring that patients be told up front, but the bill > died.) Complex, Hell. I went to the ER a while back with a cut. Took three stitches and they charged me a thousand bucks a stitch.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1hPky.86626$Hz3.68940@fx43.iad> |
| In reply to | #156306 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >In article <88a858d8-979b-46cb-bf5b-1223389d682f@googlegroups.com>, >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... >> >> Some politicians have said rising health care costs are the patient's >> fault--they should be shopping around getting the best price. >> That is total bullsh**. When someone is sick, they aren't in a position >> to "shop around". Further, patients aren't told what many complex >> procedures and services will cost until the bill comes. (They tried >> to pass a law requiring that patients be told up front, but the bill >> died.) > >Complex, Hell. I went to the ER a while back with a cut. Took three >stitches and they charged me a thousand bucks a stitch. I don't suppose there was an urgent care facility around; there are many of those here and they're much less expensive than the ER for three-stitch wound care.
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| From | Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <dfi72qF9q3oU18@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #156373 |
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 14:48:29 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote: >>Complex, Hell. I went to the ER a while back with a cut. Took three >>stitches and they charged me a thousand bucks a stitch. > > I don't suppose there was an urgent care facility around; there are > many of those here and they're much less expensive than the ER for > three-stitch wound care. My son got a nasty abcess on his back last week. Went into ER (had to wait a while, they were busy and it wasn't life threatening). They booked him in for an operation the next day, excised it, and set up daily visits for dressing it for the next two weeks, together with antibiotics and painkillers. All pretty efficient. But this is the UK, so total cost: zero. (yes, I know we pay taxes for it [National Insurance] but a good deal less than medical insurance I think) -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.30fe0c6b4d43719e989deb@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #156373 |
In article <1hPky.86626$Hz3.68940@fx43.iad>, scott@slp53.sl.home says... > > "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > >In article <88a858d8-979b-46cb-bf5b-1223389d682f@googlegroups.com>, > >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... > > >> > >> Some politicians have said rising health care costs are the patient's > >> fault--they should be shopping around getting the best price. > >> That is total bullsh**. When someone is sick, they aren't in a position > >> to "shop around". Further, patients aren't told what many complex > >> procedures and services will cost until the bill comes. (They tried > >> to pass a law requiring that patients be told up front, but the bill > >> died.) > > > >Complex, Hell. I went to the ER a while back with a cut. Took three > >stitches and they charged me a thousand bucks a stitch. > > I don't suppose there was an urgent care facility around; Not then. The sign said "emergency/prompt care". The last time I had gone to an ER about 5 years previously, they worked on me for two hours and charged me a hundred bucks. > there are > many of those here and they're much less expensive than the ER for > three-stitch wound care.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <2093292099.474034663.060695.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #156267 |
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:23:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen Sprunk wrote: >> On 07-Jan-16 11:36, hancock4 wrote: > >>> Selling a home under duress is costly in itself. >> >> That depends on the market, of course, but if this is likely to become a >> problem, then one should do it _before_ one is under duress. > > Naturally, but sometimes a person doesn't have warning. > > For example, suppose a major employer contracts. It both closes a > major facility and cuts pensions. Pensioners living in such a town > suddenly have lost value in their house because everyone needs to > go move elsewhere to keep working. > > >>> Some elders have lived in a location for a long time. They may have >>> no mortgage, but some old neighborhoods (or houses) decay and aren't >>> worth very much to sell (or need expensive fixing up.) >> >> If it's not worth much, then the property taxes shouldn't be onerous. > > Sometimes a desperate community will _raise_ property taxes to > make up for a shortfall. They'll also raise them to pay for > increased social services and police due to being a poor community. > It might be stupid economics, but politicians don't think that way. > > >>> Health care, such as a supplemental policy for what Medicare doesn't >>> cover, is very expensive. Prescriptions are expensive. >> >> Indeed, and that's why I pointed out that PBGC doesn't cover _any_ >> supplemental benefits, e.g. health or long-term care insurance. > > Well, here's another example of how employers screw retirees: > Let's say the employer (public or private) agreed to pay for retiree > health care. At the time it cost $1,000/year per employee in a group > plan. The costs became much higher so the employer decides to > eliminate the benefit. > > What employers then do is eliminate _all_ retiree health care coverage. > If they wanted to be at least fair about it, they could continue > maintaining a group plan (which are a lot cheaper), and keep paying > the first $1,000, and letting retirees pay the rest if they chose. > > Some politicians have said rising health care costs are the patient's > fault--they should be shopping around getting the best price. > That is total bullsh**. When someone is sick, they aren't in a position > to "shop around". Further, patients aren't told what many complex > procedures and services will cost until the bill comes. (They tried > to pass a law requiring that patients be told up front, but the bill > died.) > > If you think that's bad consider drug coverage. Different plans include different drugs, and pay different amounts for those they do cover. Someone taking four or five medications needs to compare the prices of all of them under several plans to find the best one. Then the plans will change the coverage - worse, medicare allows people to change providers only during a short time window each year, but the insurance xompanies can change their coverage any time. -- Pete
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