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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #155440 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-12-21 15:08 -0800 |
| Last post | 2015-12-28 08:24 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 99 — 30 participants |
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25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-21 15:08 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-12-22 20:15 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-22 19:24 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-22 23:13 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-23 07:47 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-23 17:12 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-23 12:13 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-23 10:34 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2016-01-05 13:27 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-05 11:25 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-05 12:34 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-23 12:48 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 14:42 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-23 21:25 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 18:07 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-26 21:07 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-27 02:39 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-12-27 15:48 +0000
The Source, was: 25 Years: How the Web began danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2015-12-27 18:19 +0000
Re: The Source, was: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-27 12:53 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-27 10:07 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-02 16:05 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 17:17 +1100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-24 09:41 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-24 11:06 +0100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-23 10:12 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2015-12-23 12:07 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-24 00:39 +0100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-23 11:37 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-23 17:18 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-12-23 13:57 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-12-23 09:09 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-24 00:55 +0100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-12-24 13:44 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-12-25 05:55 +1100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-12-25 15:08 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 06:42 +1100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-24 20:24 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-24 23:41 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-24 21:16 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-25 10:46 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-25 13:43 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-12-25 07:48 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2015-12-25 10:33 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-25 08:35 +0100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-24 00:26 +0100
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-23 11:22 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2015-12-23 11:43 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-27 18:04 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-28 02:51 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-27 22:09 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:27 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 05:30 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 14:14 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 22:14 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-04 04:40 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-04 21:11 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-04 17:15 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-05 04:01 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 04:29 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-05 05:41 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:24 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:57 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-05 19:09 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 17:44 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-01-08 19:19 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:34 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-28 07:54 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2015-12-28 16:21 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-28 12:39 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-28 13:11 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-28 13:35 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-28 21:43 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-28 15:37 -0600
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-29 04:35 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-01-06 21:25 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-01-06 21:13 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:35 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:03 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 06:41 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 09:02 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:41 -0500
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:06 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-28 04:38 -0400
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-12-28 11:38 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2015-12-28 13:52 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-28 15:46 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-28 15:40 -0400
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-12-28 16:26 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-28 15:46 -0400
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-28 12:50 -0800
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-29 02:56 -0400
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-12-29 07:56 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-01-06 21:40 +0000
Re: 25 Years: How the Web began Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-28 08:24 -0800
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-27 10:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn7ve26.16p.mausg@smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #155615 |
On 2015-12-27, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:07:28 PM UTC-5, JimP wrote: > >> I remember it now, America Online. AOL came later on. > > Let's not forget Prodigy for ordinary consumers and Compuserve for > more serious users. > > FWIW, AOL still exists. It offers free email. I hope so, a relative works for it. It has a market niche. > > I remember Prodigy touting that it had magazine articles, such as > from Consumers Reports. They did, but the articles were heavilly > abridged, so at that point in time it was still better to read > hardcopy. Also, Prodigy was loaded with grapics, but many users > had only 1200 or 2400 modems on an 8086 and grapics are very > slow at that speed. I don't think Prodigy was too successful. > > Compuserve (or was it CompuServe?) worked a lot more efficiently > since it utilized the plain TTY character mode. For serious > users, it had a downloadables and discussion groups, such as > for specialty computer languages (my friends were into that.) > > I'm not sure how much Compuserve was used for socializing since > it did have a connect charge that could add up if one wasn't careful. My memory of Compuserve was that software uploaded to it became Compuserve's property, which was a suprise. > > I found it interesting that Compuserve had a tie-in to the past-- > one could access Western Union through it. I don't know if you > could send a traditional telegram, but you could send a Mailgram. > Ironically, it would be the public e-mail offered by Compuserve > and other services that helped kill off Mailgram (and Mailgram was > WU's hope for the future.) > > Compuserve had many services, some free, some extra charge. However, > personally, I didn't make much of use of it. At that time, I didn't > know anyone distant who also had a Compuserve so I could have faster > correspondence; I kept in touch with distant relatives by quick phone > calls or traditional letter. In contrast, today everyone I know has > an e-mail account and uses it. > I have gone back to letter-writing, one has time to consider what one types, and a lot of my generation still do not `do' computers. that is letters printed out, my handwriting has become so bad, (I can edit over my typing problems with `doublelettering'). -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-02 16:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.30f2058df1deddb1989d80@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #155615 |
In article <64f85661-a267-42b4-a352-fa67edb402bf@googlegroups.com>, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... > > On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:07:28 PM UTC-5, JimP wrote: > > > I remember it now, America Online. AOL came later on. > > Let's not forget Prodigy for ordinary consumers and Compuserve for > more serious users. > > FWIW, AOL still exists. It offers free email. > > I remember Prodigy touting that it had magazine articles, such as > from Consumers Reports. They did, but the articles were heavilly > abridged, so at that point in time it was still better to read > hardcopy. Also, Prodigy was loaded with grapics, but many users > had only 1200 or 2400 modems on an 8086 and grapics are very > slow at that speed. I don't think Prodigy was too successful. > > Compuserve (or was it CompuServe?) worked a lot more efficiently > since it utilized the plain TTY character mode. For serious > users, it had a downloadables and discussion groups, such as > for specialty computer languages (my friends were into that.) > > I'm not sure how much Compuserve was used for socializing since > it did have a connect charge that could add up if one wasn't careful. > > I found it interesting that Compuserve had a tie-in to the past-- > one could access Western Union through it. I don't know if you > could send a traditional telegram, but you could send a Mailgram. > Ironically, it would be the public e-mail offered by Compuserve > and other services that helped kill off Mailgram (and Mailgram was > WU's hope for the future.) > > Compuserve had many services, some free, some extra charge. However, > personally, I didn't make much of use of it. At that time, I didn't > know anyone distant who also had a Compuserve so I could have faster > correspondence; I kept in touch with distant relatives by quick phone > calls or traditional letter. In contrast, today everyone I know has > an e-mail account and uses it. CompuServe had its own forum service on which I spent far too much time.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-03 17:17 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dersolF43goU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #155783 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.30f2058df1deddb1989d80@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <64f85661-a267-42b4-a352-fa67edb402bf@googlegroups.com>, > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says... >> >> On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:07:28 PM UTC-5, JimP wrote: >> >> > I remember it now, America Online. AOL came later on. >> >> Let's not forget Prodigy for ordinary consumers and Compuserve for >> more serious users. >> >> FWIW, AOL still exists. It offers free email. >> >> I remember Prodigy touting that it had magazine articles, such as >> from Consumers Reports. They did, but the articles were heavilly >> abridged, so at that point in time it was still better to read >> hardcopy. Also, Prodigy was loaded with grapics, but many users >> had only 1200 or 2400 modems on an 8086 and grapics are very >> slow at that speed. I don't think Prodigy was too successful. >> >> Compuserve (or was it CompuServe?) worked a lot more efficiently >> since it utilized the plain TTY character mode. For serious >> users, it had a downloadables and discussion groups, such as >> for specialty computer languages (my friends were into that.) >> >> I'm not sure how much Compuserve was used for socializing since >> it did have a connect charge that could add up if one wasn't careful. >> >> I found it interesting that Compuserve had a tie-in to the past-- >> one could access Western Union through it. I don't know if you >> could send a traditional telegram, but you could send a Mailgram. >> Ironically, it would be the public e-mail offered by Compuserve >> and other services that helped kill off Mailgram (and Mailgram was >> WU's hope for the future.) >> >> Compuserve had many services, some free, some extra charge. However, >> personally, I didn't make much of use of it. At that time, I didn't >> know anyone distant who also had a Compuserve so I could have faster >> correspondence; I kept in touch with distant relatives by quick phone >> calls or traditional letter. In contrast, today everyone I know has >> an e-mail account and uses it. > > CompuServe had its own forum service on which I spent far too much time. Yeah, me too. At work's expense.
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 09:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn7nfdq.166.mausg@smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #155562 |
On 2015-12-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > On 2015-12-23, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: > >> In 1988, we had BITNET at the university, and email to other networks >> if we knew which relay to use and knew the email address of the person >> we wanted to contact. >> >> I heard about a nationwide BBS, I think it was a BBS, but the >> connection charge was $5 per hour. Couldn't afford that. The people I >> knew who had it, dialed a local number, and their modem was routed to >> the site. >> >> We got Usenet about 1991/992, and I found this newsgroup and several >> others. I read them via a VT100 clone from home on my Amiga A1000. The >> modem speed was 1200 baud. >> >> My email address then was @cp6.bitnet > > A local dialup BBS, Mind Link, added an Internet connection and treated > several newsgroups as if they were additional local groups. I made > my first appearance here on a.f.c in March 1989 as a218@mindlink.ca. > Not long afterwards I got AmiTCP running on my Amiga 2500 and > dialed in via PPP, which I later upgraded to Ethernet when a > local ISP became available. > I got onto the internet via a German BBS back then, very expensive. -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 11:06 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <tlsskc-9f7.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #155575 |
In article <slrnn7nfdq.166.mausg@smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >On 2015-12-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >> On 2015-12-23, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> In 1988, we had BITNET at the university, and email to other networks >>> if we knew which relay to use and knew the email address of the person >>> we wanted to contact. >>> >>> I heard about a nationwide BBS, I think it was a BBS, but the >>> connection charge was $5 per hour. Couldn't afford that. The people I >>> knew who had it, dialed a local number, and their modem was routed to >>> the site. >>> >>> We got Usenet about 1991/992, and I found this newsgroup and several >>> others. I read them via a VT100 clone from home on my Amiga A1000. The >>> modem speed was 1200 baud. >>> >>> My email address then was @cp6.bitnet >> >> A local dialup BBS, Mind Link, added an Internet connection and treated >> several newsgroups as if they were additional local groups. I made >> my first appearance here on a.f.c in March 1989 as a218@mindlink.ca. >> Not long afterwards I got AmiTCP running on my Amiga 2500 and >> dialed in via PPP, which I later upgraded to Ethernet when a >> local ISP became available. >> > >I got onto the internet via a German BBS back then, very expensive. My history is very interesting in the respect to Internet connectivity. I had sort of usenet/arpanet access back in 1979, but that was very store&forward; literally via tapes shipped weekly between my alma mater, NHH and Stanford university. But it worked well enough to have email and news/email lists connectivity. My email then was ...!nhh!ve9.20378 I got online access via x.25 and a bbs (bbb, 1982, connectivity established via x.25 in 1984, via 128k leased line in 1988). But we had 1976, "the year of no net" where the international links were withdrawn from the university budgets throughout Norway, and we had to scramble for connectivity. Then the unix user group stepped in, after a failed attempt at using Nord (donated) machines as hubs two 386 machines with some unix on them became the hubs for dialup access, in Kongsberg and Oslo. They each had 8 serial ports for user access. Fast forward to 1993, and the user group nonprofit became a Limited (AS) company, and we got _lots_ of lines for dialup, in 1994 we got E1s channalised connected directly to Portmaster pm3s; and we had around 12 of those (x30 modems) in use. At the most we had around 2000 modems around the country. I had a leased line to my home since 1987, and had just 4 months with dialp ISDN (128K) before I connected to WIFi/pre wimax and then adsl; cable and now have direct gigabit WDM access. -- mrr
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 10:12 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87h9j9nie8.fsf@garlic.com> |
| In reply to | #155541 |
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > I remember Boardwatch magazine (and its opinionated editor). I > think he was based in Columbine which later gained notoriety. pagesat did satellite broadcast of usenet ... i got pagesat receiver for free in return doing ms/dos and a couple unix drivers for the pagesat receiver ... and co-authoring an (june '93) boardwatch article. i ran waffle BBS on ms/dos machine with complete pagesat usenet feed. picture of sat dish in backyard. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/pagesat.jpg a decade earlier ... in HSDT project http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt ... which included TDMA satellite system ... had 4.5M dishes in the backyards of Yorktown Research on the east coast and Los Gatos Lab on the west coast ... and 7M dish at the Austin plant site. other trivia ... "GML" was chosen because "G", "M", and "L" are last name first letter of former co-workers at the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech and http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml some pagesat/boardwatch past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#38 Vanishing Posts... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#39 I'll Be! Al Gore DID Invent the Internet After All ! NOT http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#66 UUCP email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#16 Newsgroups (Was Another OS/390 to z/OS 1.4 migration http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#11 An Out-of-the-Main Activity http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#17 What if phone company had developed Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#16 Newsweek article--baby boomers and computers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#19 IBM-MAIN longevity http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#19 Another one bites the dust http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#84 Anyone going to Supercomputers '09 in Portland? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#74 bulletin board http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#75 Posts missing from ibm-main on google groups http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#92 The PC industry is heading for collapse http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#26 Anyone here run UUCP? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#67 Royal Pardon For Turing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#38 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#57 email security re: hotmail.com -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | tracymnelson@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 12:07 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <caef0b64-3fd2-4a20-a217-b839944d42af@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #155528 |
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 11:10:23 PM UTC-5, Michael Black wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > > > On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:08:08 PM UTC-5, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > > > >> 25 Years: How the Web began > > > > I'm trying to remmeber when the web got a 'critical mass' and began > > to be _widely_ used by the general public. > > > I think by 1994 things had changed a lot. I remember spending an afternoon in the summer of '94 snagging the Mosaic sources and porting them to run on my SPARCstation (SunOS 4.2?). That was my first exposure to "the Web". My ISP began offering "web space" a couple years later.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 00:39 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <8unrkc-8s5.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #155528 |
In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1512222303180.19407@darkstar.example.org>, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: >On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > >> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:08:08 PM UTC-5, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >> >>> 25 Years: How the Web began >> >> I'm trying to remmeber when the web got a 'critical mass' and began >> to be _widely_ used by the general public. >> >I think by 1994 things had changed a lot. > >The universities here only got it about 1989, and then a year or two later >the first local ISP (a non-profit, I think because they couldn't imagine >it as a money maker) appeared, you'd pay $25 or so for a relatively few >number of hours per month. Their first "servers" were just some computers >in a closet, so I can imagine they started with just a few phone lines. >Others followed. The only reason I knew about that ISP at the time was >because of a listing in "Boardwatch" magazine, that had started out about >BBS systems, but was then covering the emerging ISP field. It was only in January 1991 that the s.k. CIX wars were won by the liberal side, and commercial ISPs were allowed to operate freely. Before that may of the core academic sites that had a lot of the interesting hosts resisted allowing non-AUP (i.e. commercial) traffic onto their networks. They had explcit vetting of the IP addresses alowed on to the core NSF network, which until jan 1990 was THE core of the Internet. Then some commercial ISPs in California made a public, non-AUP access point in California; called it the Commercial Internet eXchange, CIX. And they had their traffic directed there. They had an all-or-nothing peering policy; you either peered with one of them or none at all. We, as EUnet, half a world away, participated. After a few months it succeeded. The academics started to defect and had lines or tunnels to the CIX, and after a year we saw the last filter on the NSFnet disappear. NSFnet had connected to CIX sometile during that year. The activist I remember from that time was Gordon Cook, who had weekly submissions about the "war" for the Open Internet. Now the academic sites are just fringe activities on this Internet. >In 1994, we started hearing about the "internet" in the local paper. One >university women's group had discovered there was porn there, and thought >something should be done, rather than seeing the potential. > >In Ottawa, the Ottawa Freenet started up, actually I think it was in 1993, >and they started with a boom, a big influx of users who clearly knew what >the internet was, but had previously had no access (or perhaps more likely >had access at school or business, but not at home). They had to build up >really fast because of the growth of the user base. > >By 1995, big companies like cable and telephone were starting to offer >internet. Some had come in by buying an existing ISP, they had grown in >number since 1990, and memory says there was already consolidating, >mid-tier ISPs buying up some of the other ones. The landscape changed so >by 2000, about 2 of the earliest ISPs still remained intact (the others >bought up by larger companies). > >And in 1995, it wsa pretty easy to sample things at computer shows and >even movie festivals. No, it didnt' mean everyone was online, but that >things had changed quite a bit from 1990 or before that. Having mr Gates discover the Internet sometime during 1994 was also a help. > >The Montreal Freenet went online in August of 1997, after three years of >planning and construction, and failed after four months. They had decided >to go for a big system, having seen Ottawa have growth problems at the >beginning, but had to wait for government funding. In the meantime, the >internet had become much more accessible, if still relatively expensive >for the time you got. So the Montreal Freenet had expected a large influx >right away, and that never came. The people who knew about access had >already found it elsewhere, leaving people who had little money, or people >who didn't really know about the internet yet. And that latter group was >going to take too much effort to convert into users. And you needed to have capacity and logistics in place, and use whatever equipment was available at the time. Completely different from these government funded ISPs that cropped up; with lots of expensive telco-grade equipment but completely unprepared for the bandwidth boom that was going to make this equipment obsolete in a few months. -- mrr
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 11:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20151223113748.b8ac0f2cc4993513a0ec9cb6@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #155526 |
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:24:08 -0800 (PST) hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:08:08 PM UTC-5, Anne & Lynn Wheeler > wrote: > > > 25 Years: How the Web began > > I'm trying to remmeber when the web got a 'critical mass' and began > to be _widely_ used by the general public. > > In looking at some old magazines, it seems that around the year 1997 > first AOL references, then web addresses began to appear. At that > point I don't think e-commerce had started, but the web might have > had catalogs and easier GUI access. Early adopters were starting commercial websites as early as 1994, online shopping was certainly possible in 1995 (I used an image of the "Internet Shopping Network" in a Feb 1995 advert - www.internet.net!). I expect payment used existing mechanisms intended for phone use and may well have been shockingly insecure. Thinking back more, commercial internet users discovered the web around 1994/95 and rejoiced that there was a corner of the internet that wasn't actively hostile to commercial influences, where they were even acceptable! They grabbed it with both hands - and then started asking how to get people to see their sites. However the internet itself didn't hit wide public awareness for a couple of years after that. In 1994/95 I spent a lot of my time telling people what the Internet was and what it was good for. Five years later everyone knew the internet was the web. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 17:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n5el0h2212o@news6.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #155537 |
On 2015-12-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > Five years later everyone knew the internet was the web. And, as usual, what Everyone Knew [tm] was wrong, since there's a lot out there beyond port 80. This newsgroup, for instance. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 13:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005279120AD6505@aca40687.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #155526 |
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:08:08 PM UTC-5, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > >> 25 Years: How the Web began > > I'm trying to remmeber when the web got a 'critical mass' and began > to be _widely_ used by the general public. > > In looking at some old magazines, it seems that around the year 1997 > first AOL references, then web addresses began to appear. At that > point I don't think e-commerce had started, but the web might have > had catalogs and easier GUI access. > > I believe the web grew very rapidly after 2000, perhaps needing only > five years to become commonplace instead of a new thing. I think > that's rather remarkable for the general public to latch onto something > so quickly. > > Of course, the web's predecessors, such as text based file sharing, > TELNET remote access, email, and such were around for a while. I'm > thinking of the widespread general public's "connection" to the web > with GUI access. The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I don't recall the countries. It took the US a very, very long time to catch up. /BAH
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| From | Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-23 09:09 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> |
| In reply to | #155538 |
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International > Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - > 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I > don't recall the countries. You recall badly. The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and the work that let to that began in Spring of '89.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 00:55 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <bsorkc-t36.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #155540 |
In article <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > >> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >> don't recall the countries. > >You recall badly. > >The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall Interop october 1992 in Paris. I happed to be there. It all ran on Next computers, btw. -- mrr
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 13:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000527A4FC6319C6@aca40702.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #155568 |
Morten Reistad wrote: > In article <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, > Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >>jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >> >>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >>> don't recall the countries. >> >>You recall badly. >> >>The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >>the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. > > And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall > Interop october 1992 in Paris. > > I happed to be there. > > It all ran on Next computers, btw. The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could there have been ads before standardization? /BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-25 05:55 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <de2tcaFrja2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #155585 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000527A4FC6319C6@aca40702.ipt.aol.com... > Morten Reistad wrote: >> In article > <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, >> Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >>>jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>> >>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >>>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >>>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >>>> don't recall the countries. >>> >>>You recall badly. >>> >>>The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >>>the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. >> >> And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall >> Interop october 1992 in Paris. >> >> I happed to be there. >> >> It all ran on Next computers, btw. > > The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could > there have been ads before standardization? You sure you aren't thinking about ads for something else like Minitel ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-25 15:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000527BA44685599@aca4289a.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #155591 |
Rod Speed wrote: > > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM000527A4FC6319C6@aca40702.ipt.aol.com... >> Morten Reistad wrote: >>> In article >> <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, >>> Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >>>>jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>>>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >>>>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >>>>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >>>>> don't recall the countries. >>>> >>>>You recall badly. >>>> >>>>The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >>>>the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. >>> >>> And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall >>> Interop october 1992 in Paris. >>> >>> I happed to be there. >>> >>> It all ran on Next computers, btw. >> >> The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could >> there have been ads before standardization? > > You sure you aren't thinking about ads for something else like Minitel ? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel > These weren't ads for computer hard/software. they were in the personals section, IIRC. I knew they were host addresses of some sort and wondered what kind of network protocol was being used since it didn't look like a DECnet format. It takes years to adapt and adopt a standard. I'm assuming those addresses were the first trickles of people trying to move on-line. /BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-26 06:42 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <de5kh2Fh5gjU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #155606 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000527BA44685599@aca4289a.ipt.aol.com... > Rod Speed wrote: >> >> >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM000527A4FC6319C6@aca40702.ipt.aol.com... >>> Morten Reistad wrote: >>>> In article >>> <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, >>>> Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >>>>>jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>>>>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >>>>>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >>>>>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >>>>>> don't recall the countries. >>>>> >>>>>You recall badly. >>>>> >>>>>The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >>>>>the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. >>>> >>>> And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall >>>> Interop october 1992 in Paris. >>>> >>>> I happed to be there. >>>> >>>> It all ran on Next computers, btw. >>> >>> The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could >>> there have been ads before standardization? >> >> You sure you aren't thinking about ads for something else like Minitel ? >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel > These weren't ads for computer hard/software. > they were in the personals section, IIRC. Yeah, but minitel wasn’t about computer hard/software, it was about retail in general and quite a bit else as well. It was in fact an electronic phone book so it wouldn’t be surprising if it had personals ads and hookers etc. > I knew they were host addresses of some sort > and wondered what kind of network protocol was > being used since it didn't look like a DECnet format. > It takes years to adapt and adopt a standard. I'm assuming those > addresses were the first trickles of people trying to move on-line. They were in the sense of electronic communication, but not in the sense of the www we were discussing. Same with Compuserve which had been around for quite a while before the www showed up too.
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 20:24 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <e267f9f3-7ef2-423d-8fc4-26640a349c0d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #155585 |
On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 6:42:54 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote: > Morten Reistad wrote: > > In article > <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, > > Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: > >>jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > >> > >>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > >>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International > >>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - > >>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I > >>> don't recall the countries. > >> > >>You recall badly. > >> > >>The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and > >>the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. > > > > And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall > > Interop october 1992 in Paris. > > > > I happed to be there. > > > > It all ran on Next computers, btw. > > The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could > there have been ads before standardization? I did some checking; Mosaic dates from 1993, and Netscape Navigator 2 dates from 1995, which is about when I started using the Internet. Before Mosaic, one couldn't access the Web from Windows, so that's the earliest date for world+dog getting on the Internet. John Savard
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 23:41 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1512242338580.23482@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #155595 |
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015, Quadibloc wrote: > On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 6:42:54 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote: >> Morten Reistad wrote: >>> In article >> <87bn9hryl2.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>, >>> Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote: >>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>>>> The first time I saw the characters "www." was in the International >>>>> Herald when we were on a vacation trip. IIRC, this was 1985 - >>>>> 1987ish. The w^3 addresses were in ads of firms in Europe but I >>>>> don't recall the countries. >>>> >>>> You recall badly. >>>> >>>> The standard was not even published for the first time until 1991, and >>>> the work that let to that began in Spring of '89. >>> >>> And the first demo of the whole web setup took place in fall >>> Interop october 1992 in Paris. >>> >>> I happed to be there. >>> >>> It all ran on Next computers, btw. >> >> The trip couldn't have been that late. JMF died in 1995. Could >> there have been ads before standardization? > > I did some checking; Mosaic dates from 1993, and Netscape Navigator 2 dates > from 1995, which is about when I started using the Internet. > > Before Mosaic, one couldn't access the Web from Windows, so that's the earliest > date for world+dog getting on the Internet. > Lynx came along in 1992, and one thing it can do is be run remotely. I thought that was how early web browsing was done, especially since originally it wasn't graphic. I thought after the WWW was announced, one initially would connect to a computer somewhere that had the only working browser, and then read pages that way. Lynx was just an extension of that. Michael
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-12-24 21:16 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <e56c2d08-dc72-49fe-ad75-a9aec83b56de@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #155596 |
On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 9:37:35 PM UTC-7, Michael Black wrote: > Lynx came along in 1992, and one thing it can do is be run remotely. I used Lynx on Edmonton Freenet for a while, so I'm aware of its existence, but like the pre-Web Internet, that isn't really for those who are unsophisticated about computers. No eye candy. John Savard
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