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1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

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  1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-14 10:31 -0800
    Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-14 13:09 -0600
      Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-14 17:00 -0800
        Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-15 14:43 -0800
      Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-15 14:26 -0800
    Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2015-12-14 20:28 +0100
    Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30 Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-12-14 16:26 -0500
      Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30 "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-14 16:13 -0600
        Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-12-15 14:14 +0000
        Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-15 14:41 -0800
      Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-15 14:34 -0800
      Viet Nam era Selective Service lottery [Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-12-15 19:39 -0500
    Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 "m. thompson" <michael.99.thompson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 16:41 -0800
    Re: 1958 "desk computer"  Royal Precision LGP-30 rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-12-16 16:18 +0000

#155185 — 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

CA-01-1958 had an ad for desk computer.  I believe this
computer turned out to be pretty popular.

IBM also had a similar model, the 610, but that was not
very popular.

This was made by Royal McBee, who at the time was a large
light business machine company.

The illustration for the ad included the atomic graphic--
electrons spinning around a nucleus.  This graphic was
widely used in that era as part of computer advertising.
RCA used it into the 1960s.

HIGH-SPEED COMPUTATION AT THE LOWEST COST
EVER FOR A COMPLETE COMPUTER SYSTEM

No more waiting in line for those answers you need!
No more lost time in executing preliminary calculations
or modifying equations! Not with the LGP-30! Wheeled
right to your desk, operated from a regular wall outlet,
LGP-30 allows you to follow your work personally from
beginning to end ... to change formulae on the spot ...
to simulate optimum designs without weeks of mathematical
analysis. Thus you get faster answers ... added
time for creative work.

Easy to use. LGP-30 is a general-purpose storedprogram
computer - internally binary, serial, single
address. Just the few orders in the command structure
give complete internal programming. Controls are so
simplified, you get an "overnight" feel for your computer.

Unusual memory capacity. With a magnetic drum
memory of 4096 words, LGP-30 is the most powerful
computer of its size yet developed. Fully automatic,,-it
executes self-modifying programs.

Exceptional versatility and value. Both the scope of
LGP-30's applications and the range of calculations it
can perform are almost limitless. It gives speed and
memory equal to computers many times its size and
cost, yet initial investment is the smallest ever for a
complete computer. Maintenance costs are extremely
low ... service facilities available coast-to-coast.

Outstanding features of LGP-30-----.
* Alpha-numeric input-output via electric typewriter or
punched paper tape. * Optional input-output equipment
available. * Unusually large memory - 4096 words. *
Library of sub-routines ... programs for wide variety
of applications.· Mobile ..* no expensive installation
... self-cooled. * Nation-wide sales and service.

ROYAL MCBEE
Port Chester, NY

bitsavers on it
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/royalPrecision/LGP-30/

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#155187

<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message 
news:f495a59e-c22a-4000-956e-0840bdf34903@googlegroups.com...
>CA-01-1958 had an ad for desk computer.  I believe this
>computer turned out to be pretty popular.
>
>IBM also had a similar model, the 610, but that was not
>very popular.
>
>This was made by Royal McBee, who at the time was a large
>light business machine company.

The "LGP" stood for Librascope General Precision.  Royal McBee did 
manufacture them.  I think Librascope was a division of Royal McBee.

Edward Lorenz discovered the "Butterfly Effect" and strange attractors using 
the LGP-30.

The LGP-30's main memory was a drum memory.  Librascope came out with a 
transistorized model called the LGP-21 that used disk for its main memory. 
It was actually slower than the LGP-30, but priced lower.

http://theworld.com/~reinhold/lgp21.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGP-30


Stan Frankel was the designer of the LGP-30:

http://www.hp9825.com/html/stan_frankel.html


-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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#155202

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-7, Charles Richmond wrote:

> The "LGP" stood for Librascope General Precision.  Royal McBee did 
> manufacture them.  I think Librascope was a division of Royal McBee.

And just as I was amused to see PC clones manufactured with the "Packard Bell" 
brand name, I remember seeing personal organizers sold under the "Royal McBee" 
brand name.

John Savard

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#155235

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 8:00:46 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:

> And just as I was amused to see PC clones manufactured with the "Packard Bell" 
> brand name, I remember seeing personal organizers sold under the "Royal McBee" 
> brand name.

My first PC was a Packard Bell.  I had no idea who they were.  Later I
saw old ads from them for real computers.

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#155232

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 2:09:31 PM UTC-5, Charles Richmond wrote:
> The LGP-30's main memory was a drum memory.  Librascope came out with a 
> transistorized model called the LGP-21 that used disk for its main memory. 
> It was actually slower than the LGP-30, but priced lower.

I read that my high school had an LGP-21 donated to it in the mid 
1960s.  I think it only lasted a few years.  There's no one around 
I could ask about it.

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#155188

hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> This was made by Royal McBee, who at the time was a large
> light business machine company.

LGP-30, Mel's computer.

A+

-- 
Jean-Marc

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#155196 — Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

On 14/12/2015 1:31 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> CA-01-1958 had an ad for desk computer.  I believe this computer
> turned out to be pretty popular.
>
> IBM also had a similar model, the 610, but that was not very
> popular.
>
> This was made by Royal McBee, who at the time was a large light
> business machine company.
>
> The illustration for the ad included the atomic graphic-- electrons
> spinning around a nucleus.  This graphic was widely used in that era
> as part of computer advertising. RCA used it into the 1960s.
>
> HIGH-SPEED COMPUTATION AT THE LOWEST COST EVER FOR A COMPLETE
> COMPUTER SYSTEM
>
> No more waiting in line for those answers you need! No more lost time
> in executing preliminary calculations or modifying equations! Not
> with the LGP-30! Wheeled right to your desk, operated from a regular
> wall outlet, LGP-30 allows you to follow your work personally from
> beginning to end ... to change formulae on the spot ... to simulate
> optimum designs without weeks of mathematical analysis. Thus you get
> faster answers ... added time for creative work.
>
> Easy to use. LGP-30 is a general-purpose storedprogram computer -
> internally binary, serial, single address. Just the few orders in the
> command structure give complete internal programming. Controls are
> so simplified, you get an "overnight" feel for your computer.
>
> Unusual memory capacity. With a magnetic drum memory of 4096 words,
> LGP-30 is the most powerful computer of its size yet developed. Fully
> automatic,,-it executes self-modifying programs.
>
> Exceptional versatility and value. Both the scope of LGP-30's
> applications and the range of calculations it can perform are almost
> limitless. It gives speed and memory equal to computers many times
> its size and cost, yet initial investment is the smallest ever for a
> complete computer. Maintenance costs are extremely low ... service
> facilities available coast-to-coast.
>
> Outstanding features of LGP-30-----. * Alpha-numeric input-output via
> electric typewriter or punched paper tape. * Optional input-output
> equipment available. * Unusually large memory - 4096 words. * Library
> of sub-routines ... programs for wide variety of applications.·
> Mobile ..* no expensive installation ... self-cooled. * Nation-wide
> sales and service.
>
> ROYAL MCBEE Port Chester, NY
>
> bitsavers on it
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/royalPrecision/LGP-30/
>
>
In the mid 60's I had an American sculpture friend that decided that
Canada was a better place to live with a low draft number than the US
for the duration of some almost forgotten disagreement in Southeast Asia.

He bought a junked LPG-30 and I spent evenings with him for a few weeks
taking it apart and working to use the drum as sequencer for an animated
sculpture. In the end we used the drum to record tones that drove the
rest of the sculpture control.

I have been following a discussion on comp.arch about ISA design and
instruction fetch time. Glad we have moved away from the latency of a
memory fetch waiting for the drum to come round.

w..

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#155197 — Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

"Walter Banks" wrote:

> In the mid 60's I had an American sculpture friend that decided that
> Canada was a better place to live with a low draft number than the US
> for the duration of some almost forgotten disagreement in Southeast Asia.

They showed the drawing for draft numbers on TV.  I was highly skeptical of 
anything the government did and thought "They are going to screw this up!". 
I got a clipboard and recorded the numbers as they drew them.  It was 
perfectly obvious just by looking that the numbers had not been mixed 
properly.

Thankfully they only take 40% of my income to do what they do.  (39.6% for 
purists.) 

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#155217 — Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>"Walter Banks" wrote:
>
>> In the mid 60's I had an American sculpture friend that decided that
>> Canada was a better place to live with a low draft number than the US
>> for the duration of some almost forgotten disagreement in Southeast Asia.
>
>They showed the drawing for draft numbers on TV.  I was highly skeptical of 
>anything the government did and thought "They are going to screw this up!". 
>I got a clipboard and recorded the numbers as they drew them.  It was 
>perfectly obvious just by looking that the numbers had not been mixed 
>properly.
>
>Thankfully they only take 40% of my income to do what they do.  (39.6% for 
>purists.) 
>

Given that the top rate only applies to income over a specified threshold,
I suggest that your overall rate is considerably less than 40%, and if it
isn't, I'm cryin' crocodile tears for you....

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#155234 — Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 5:13:35 PM UTC-5, Osmium wrote:
> They showed the drawing for draft numbers on TV.  I was highly skeptical of 
> anything the government did and thought "They are going to screw this up!". 
> I got a clipboard and recorded the numbers as they drew them.  It was 
> perfectly obvious just by looking that the numbers had not been mixed 
> properly.

Didn't they come out with new numbers each year, based on one's 
birthday?  That was supposed to be a better system.

Depending on one's perspective, a bigger problem was that back
then college provided a deferment, and then it was relatively
easy to get a job that provided a deferment, too.  So, many
college kids didn't have to serve.  If memory serves, teachers
got a deferment, so many baby boomers went into teaching.  However,
when there were huge cuts in engineering circa 1971, newly graduated
engineers couldn't get work and got drafted (like my friend's brother).

In contrast, I think in WW II, college only gave you a break until 
you finished the term, if even that.   Relative few jobs had deferments.

Some eng & sci guys who got drafted were specially assigned to Los
Alamos to work as techs, they didn't even have to go basic training.

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#155233 — Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5, Walter Banks wrote:

> I have been following a discussion on comp.arch about ISA design and
> instruction fetch time. Glad we have moved away from the latency of a
> memory fetch waiting for the drum to come round.

As an aside, those old issues of C&A had ads every month for a 
Bryant magnetic drum memory.  BRYANT GAGE and SPINDLE DIVISION 
was part of BRYANT CHUCKING GRINDER CO, which as far as I can 
tell, no longer exists.  Anyway, I don't think of a grinding
company as one to make precision electronic devices, but then
I found that Mack Trucks made them, too.

IBM included a magnetic drum as part of the S/360 option package,
but apparently it didn't sell very many; customers preferred real
core memory.

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#155238 — Viet Nam era Selective Service lottery [Re: 1958 "desk computer" Royal Precision LGP-30]

Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:

> In the mid 60's I had an American sculpture friend that decided that
> Canada was a better place to live with a low draft number than the US
> for the duration of some almost forgotten disagreement in Southeast Asia.

The first such lottery was held 1 December 1969, during my freshman year of
college.  One of my friends got a lottery # of 5, but he was legitimately 4F.
Either it wasn't the mid-60's, or your friend did not have a low number when
he went north.

-- 
Rich Alderson                                   news@alderson.users.panix.com
    the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
    to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

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#155239

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 1:31:24 PM UTC-5, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> CA-01-1958 had an ad for desk computer.  I believe this
> computer turned out to be pretty popular.
> 
> IBM also had a similar model, the 610, but that was not
> very popular.
> 
> This was made by Royal McBee, who at the time was a large
> light business machine company.
> 
> The illustration for the ad included the atomic graphic--
> electrons spinning around a nucleus.  This graphic was
> widely used in that era as part of computer advertising.
> RCA used it into the 1960s.
> 
> HIGH-SPEED COMPUTATION AT THE LOWEST COST
> EVER FOR A COMPLETE COMPUTER SYSTEM
> 
> No more waiting in line for those answers you need!
> No more lost time in executing preliminary calculations
> or modifying equations! Not with the LGP-30! Wheeled
> right to your desk, operated from a regular wall outlet,
> LGP-30 allows you to follow your work personally from
> beginning to end ... to change formulae on the spot ...
> to simulate optimum designs without weeks of mathematical
> analysis. Thus you get faster answers ... added
> time for creative work.
> 
> Easy to use. LGP-30 is a general-purpose storedprogram
> computer - internally binary, serial, single
> address. Just the few orders in the command structure
> give complete internal programming. Controls are so
> simplified, you get an "overnight" feel for your computer.
> 
> Unusual memory capacity. With a magnetic drum
> memory of 4096 words, LGP-30 is the most powerful
> computer of its size yet developed. Fully automatic,,-it
> executes self-modifying programs.
> 
> Exceptional versatility and value. Both the scope of
> LGP-30's applications and the range of calculations it
> can perform are almost limitless. It gives speed and
> memory equal to computers many times its size and
> cost, yet initial investment is the smallest ever for a
> complete computer. Maintenance costs are extremely
> low ... service facilities available coast-to-coast.
> 
> Outstanding features of LGP-30-----.
> * Alpha-numeric input-output via electric typewriter or
> punched paper tape. * Optional input-output equipment
> available. * Unusually large memory - 4096 words. *
> Library of sub-routines ... programs for wide variety
> of applications.· Mobile ..* no expensive installation
> ... self-cooled. * Nation-wide sales and service.
> 
> ROYAL MCBEE
> Port Chester, NY
> 
> bitsavers on it
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/royalPrecision/LGP-30/

I have seen this LGP30 running: http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/lgp30_1.html

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#155256

<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
+---------------
| CA-01-1958 had an ad for desk computer. I believe this
| computer turned out to be pretty popular.
+---------------

We had an LGP-30 in the NMR Group of the Chemistry Dept. at
Emory Univ. in the mid-1960s. It was the first [or second?]
computer I ever used [the other being an IBM 1410.] I have
posted numerous [sometimes long!] articles here and in
"comp.arch" about this very interesting machine, e.g.:

    Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
    Subject: Re: single-address-space UNIX?
    Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:27:09 -0500
    From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
    Message-ID: <272dnbfUJs1A2xbXnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

    Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
    Subject: Fun with LGP-30 & PDP-10 [was: Re: single-address-space UNIX? ]
    Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:41:16 -0500
    From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
    Message-ID: <RIKdnTapxLNxThHXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

    Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch
    Subject: Re: Drum Memory with small Core Memory?
    Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:58:50 -0500
    From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
    Message-ID: <e96dnWsgY94XYinQnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

    Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
    Subject: Re: With hindsight, what would you have done?
    Date: 13 Jul 2014 07:47:14 GMT
    From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
    Message-ID: <53c23982$0$52775$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

    Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
    Subject: Re: With hindsight, what would you have done?
    Date: 13 Jul 2014 13:37:05 GMT
    From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
    Message-ID: <53c28b81$0$52821$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

just to pick a few at random, so I won't repeat myself today
[unless somebody has a specific question].


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock		<rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue		<http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403

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