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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #210335 > unrolled thread

Re: IBM system/360 ad

Started byrobin.vowels@gmail.com
First post2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
Last post2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 590 — 35 participants

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Contents

  Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-08 16:50 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 13:19 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-09 12:16 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 16:35 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 19:41 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-10 12:29 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 19:02 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:46 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:07 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:10 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 01:06 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:33 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 22:46 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:18 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-11 19:49 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 13:11 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:42 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-12 22:11 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 23:49 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-03-13 08:36 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-11 22:17 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 16:47 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:40 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:32 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 18:17 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:03 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-12 15:29 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-12 19:38 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-03-13 18:07 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-13 11:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:31 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 01:34 +0000
              Re: IBM system/360-30 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-13 00:19 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-13 00:26 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:38 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 21:38 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 12:11 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:11 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:13 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:54 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 12:04 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 10:31 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:11 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
                  Re: IBM 1130, system John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-12 23:51 +0000
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:09 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:29 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:35 -0400
                          RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-24 23:03 +0000
                            Re: RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 07:26 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:12 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 11:29 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:34 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:01 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:39 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:15 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:24 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:50 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:34 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:53 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 23:14 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:28 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:01 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 11:31 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 10:11 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 13:26 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:23 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 14:35 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 12:08 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 15:13 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:28 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:33 +0100
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:47 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 11:10 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 08:15 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 14:51 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 16:20 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:24 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 16:46 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-26 19:52 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:00 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-08-27 14:11 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:21 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:38 +0100
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-27 11:39 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 13:38 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 12:03 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:11 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 21:17 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-26 12:13 -0500
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:27 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 17:21 +0100
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:37 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-26 04:07 -0500
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:02 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:29 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 20:20 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:45 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:31 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:54 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:33 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:44 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:31 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 19:16 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:55 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:52 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:02 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 13:13 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-23 07:37 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-23 01:00 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 12:22 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-23 20:49 +0100
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:05 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:25 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:18 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:08 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 03:46 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:09 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:44 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:29 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 19:37 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 21:52 +0100
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:44 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-26 12:21 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 15:15 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:42 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-27 09:43 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 22:27 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:38 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 18:09 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-26 00:12 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 20:35 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 11:18 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:40 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:26 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:26 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:44 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:56 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 09:41 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:28 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:52 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:16 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-25 12:56 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:40 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:58 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:48 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:26 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 19:07 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 06:55 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:23 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 14:33 -0400
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 23:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:39 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:13 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 20:09 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:11 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:34 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:49 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-26 22:28 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:49 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:49 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 19:39 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:42 -0700
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:21 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-01 19:17 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:22 -0700
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-02 08:42 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-03 05:37 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 02:22 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 09:48 +0000
                                                        Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 17:55 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 19:31 +0100
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:13 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:24 -0700
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:30 +0000
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:08 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:21 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 05:51 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 06:34 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:13 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:10 -0500
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 05:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:16 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:07 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0600
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 19:20 +0000
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 19:12 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 11:59 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:11 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 14:05 +0000
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-02 16:34 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:35 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 23:59 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 13:39 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> - 2020-09-03 18:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:45 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:26 -0500
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 20:49 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:37 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:27 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 07:05 +0100
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-09-03 12:29 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:26 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:11 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Richard Thiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2020-09-03 14:20 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 19:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:38 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 19:04 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 10:55 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 14:02 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:11 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 17:45 +0100
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:10 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:22 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 09:53 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:19 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:52 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:04 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 07:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 09:15 -0400
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-03 13:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:04 -0400
                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 05:48 +0000
                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:07 -0400
                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 14:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:07 -0400
                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 19:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:12 -0400
                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 20:34 +0000
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:53 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 21:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-05 12:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:41 -0400
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:00 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 18:09 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:41 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:10 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:04 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-08 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-09 13:17 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:34 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:37 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:56 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-05 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:23 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:37 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:57 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 17:09 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:05 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:32 -0500
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:08 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 00:05 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:48 +0000
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 07:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:09 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:00 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:45 -0500
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:37 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:59 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:22 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 16:02 -0700
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 19:43 -0400
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:13 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:47 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 12:21 +0100
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 21:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:01 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:16 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-02 16:14 +0200
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 07:20 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:36 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:19 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:25 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 14:43 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:40 -0400
                                                Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 06:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:36 +0000
                                                      Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:54 +0000
                                                        Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 22:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 06:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 16:48 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 23:53 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 20:33 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 02:46 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 23:08 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 19:30 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:00 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:27 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 21:01 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 22:51 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360/20, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 01:24 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:19 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 19:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:47 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 14:16 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 03:32 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:11 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 19:41 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 08:58 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 17:27 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 01:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 20:26 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 20:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 21:21 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 16:34 +0000
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:13 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 06:34 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-01 16:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:07 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 19:38 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:41 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:22 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:23 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:21 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 09:41 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:24 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 15:07 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 22:21 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 07:20 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 00:56 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:46 -0700
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:15 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 21:47 -0400
                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 02:40 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 00:04 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:24 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-27 15:55 +0100
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 11:14 -0400
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:30 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-27 23:24 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:38 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:44 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 10:59 -0400
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 10:15 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:05 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 19:37 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:05 -0400
                                                Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:30 +0000
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:40 +0000
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:03 -0400
                                                      Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 14:01 +0000
                                                Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:33 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-30 11:09 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:18 -0700
                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:58 +0000
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-31 17:17 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 19:58 +0000
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 09:39 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 04:10 -0700
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 08:19 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-01 18:08 +0000
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:04 -0400
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:13 -0700
                                                                  Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:52 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 00:06 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:05 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 22:32 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:51 +0000
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 23:52 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:58 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:18 -0400
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:28 -0400
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 15:50 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-31 17:24 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:19 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2020-08-28 18:58 +0100
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:21 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:05 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:39 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:18 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 21:39 -0400
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-08-30 11:51 +0000
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:06 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:36 -0400
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 10:43 -0400
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 11:49 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:10 -0400
                                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:33 -0400
                                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 15:03 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-30 16:37 +0000
                                                    Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 16:55 +0000
                                                      Re: Home made card reader J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:20 -0400
                                                        Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 17:23 +0000
                                                          Re: Home made card reader Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 16:38 -0700
                                                            Re: Home made card reader John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 00:27 +0000
                                                            Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-31 09:34 +0000
                                                              Re: Home made card reader usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
                                                                Re: Home made card reader Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-02 08:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: Home made card reader Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:04 -0700
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:19 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-31 07:23 +0100
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 20:34 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:37 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:40 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:31 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:06 +0000
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:40 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:06 -0400
                                            Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:41 +0000
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:28 -0400
                                                Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 18:10 +0000
                                                  Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:25 -0400
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:26 +0000
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:03 -0400
                                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:03 -0700
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-04 23:34 -0700
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:02 -0400
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:32 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-04 18:11 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-29 01:04 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:14 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:35 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 12:13 -0400
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-28 07:00 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:17 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:24 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:04 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:07 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:20 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:28 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-29 12:31 +0000
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-29 23:58 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:10 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 05:21 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                          Re: flaming, not at all KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:15 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:45 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 20:28 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:11 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 14:28 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 19:39 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:59 -0400
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:25 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:28 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:28 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:40 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 18:56 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:39 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:34 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:44 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:36 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:11 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:25 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:32 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:36 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 05:10 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:20 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:31 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:42 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Stoat <fake@fake.org> - 2020-08-28 15:49 +1200
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:06 +0100
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:03 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:27 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 14:47 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-03-11 15:05 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-11 16:33 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 14:57 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 19:59 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 17:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 20:57 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:15 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-10 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:32 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:52 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:27 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-14 13:40 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-14 09:01 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 12:36 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-15 21:58 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 12:57 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 17:39 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 15:29 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:33 -0400
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-03-11 21:23 -0500
        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 20:50 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 09:34 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:55 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:05 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700

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#213087

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 08:26 -0400
Message-ID<ri301n$lmq$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213083
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On 25 Aug 2020 11:18:07 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>> 
>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>
>>And there's GNU COBOL.
>
> But how compatible is that with IBM COBOL?  And then there's the whole
> CICS issue.  

I think I've seen Micro Focus claiming high degrees of portability
and I think there are some CICS like alternatives.

I spent last last 30 years of my career away from COBOL shops.
Maybe that's why I haven't seen anyone actually try to move S/360 COBOL
to another platform.

Befoer then I got to move a bunch of IBM S/34 COBOL to Wang VS.
The COBOL wasn't a problem but Wang VS had it's own approach to
display support which differed from IBM S/34 display support.

Fortunately, IBMs S/34 screen definition and usage was simple enough that
I was able to duplicate it on Wang VS.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213089

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
Message-ID<hqkesnFcjo5U10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#213087
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 08:26:31 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> I spent last last 30 years of my career away from COBOL shops.
> Maybe that's why I haven't seen anyone actually try to move S/360 COBOL
> to another platform.

And IBM no doubt designed it to be difficult to move.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#213096

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:26 -0400
Message-ID<ri373j$l3h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213089
Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:

> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 08:26:31 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> I spent last last 30 years of my career away from COBOL shops.
>> Maybe that's why I haven't seen anyone actually try to move S/360 COBOL
>> to another platform.
>
> And IBM no doubt designed it to be difficult to move.

I have to agree.

They've done a pretty good job of keeping their motives from leaking
out.  You'd think some designer would be online complaining about his
simple design rejected because it would be too easy to duplicate.

Lynn says FBA for MVS was rejected because of various costs, I think it
was training or documentation.  Truth is FBA would have simplified disk
design and use too much.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213131

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<899499984.620070140.444610.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213096
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
> 
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 08:26:31 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> 
>>> I spent last last 30 years of my career away from COBOL shops.
>>> Maybe that's why I haven't seen anyone actually try to move S/360 COBOL
>>> to another platform.
>> 
>> And IBM no doubt designed it to be difficult to move.
> 
> I have to agree.
> 
> They've done a pretty good job of keeping their motives from leaking
> out.  You'd think some designer would be online complaining about his
> simple design rejected because it would be too easy to duplicate.
> 
> Lynn says FBA for MVS was rejected because of various costs, I think it
> was training or documentation.  Truth is FBA would have simplified disk
> design and use too much.
> 

Tons and tons of MVS (and z/OS) code is dependent on CKD. IBM’s attitude is
always to ask for a cost/benefit analysis, where the benefit must be
immediate and tangible. “It will make everything simpler and easier to
maintain” doesn’t count. Then there’s all the user code that depends on
CKD, which, I suppose, could be emulated by the system. Of course now it’s
all emulated, which was probably the cheapest and quickest way.

-- 
Pete

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#213126

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<1585990288.620069605.447495.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213083
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 Aug 2020 11:18:07 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>> 
>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>> 
>> And there's GNU COBOL.
> 
> But how compatible is that with IBM COBOL?  And then there's the whole
> CICS issue.  
> 

CICS and DB2, they’re both standards now. I think OP was talking about
running old COBOL programs today, which might not need either.

-- 
Pete

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#213147

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 16:44 -0400
Message-ID<dvtakfd9uqcessgqg0iapsk9prsau041ge@4ax.com>
In reply to#213126
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 10:59:46 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25 Aug 2020 11:18:07 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>> 
>>> And there's GNU COBOL.
>> 
>> But how compatible is that with IBM COBOL?  And then there's the whole
>> CICS issue.  
>> 
>
>CICS and DB2, they’re both standards now. I think OP was talking about
>running old COBOL programs today, which might not need either.

Have to be mighty old.  CICS has been around since the '60s.

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#213085

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 07:56 -0400
Message-ID<ri2u9p$lmq$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213081
Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:

> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>
>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>> 
>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>
> And there's GNU COBOL.

Yeah, I've heard all of those.

MVS 3.8 doesn't really sound viable.

I just lack any real world experience where anyone tried to use COBOL on
UNIX or a PC.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213095

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 09:41 -0400
Message-ID<e15akf9unkh9o7ue38qso4c5breii6ecq5@4ax.com>
In reply to#213085
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:56:41 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>> 
>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>
>> And there's GNU COBOL.
>
>Yeah, I've heard all of those.
>
>MVS 3.8 doesn't really sound viable.
>
>I just lack any real world experience where anyone tried to use COBOL on
>UNIX or a PC.

Hercules will run the latest version of Z/OS.  The problem isn't
Hercules, it's getting Z/OS.

Someone in China put a copy of Z/OS 1.something up online that can be
run on Hercules.  It works but it's misconfigured in such a way that
it won't shut down clean, so the machine won't come back up.  There's
probably an easy way to fix it but I haven't wanted to badly enough to
figure it out.

Note--I'm not including a link because (a) it's bootleg and (b) if too
many people go for the link it will likely be taken down.  I was able
to find it--so can anyone else who is sufficiently interested.

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#213101

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:43 -0400
Message-ID<ri382e$l3h$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213095
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:56:41 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>>
>>> And there's GNU COBOL.
>>
>>Yeah, I've heard all of those.
>>
>>MVS 3.8 doesn't really sound viable.
>>
>>I just lack any real world experience where anyone tried to use COBOL on
>>UNIX or a PC.
>
> Hercules will run the latest version of Z/OS.  The problem isn't
> Hercules, it's getting Z/OS.
>
> Someone in China put a copy of Z/OS 1.something up online that can be
> run on Hercules.  It works but it's misconfigured in such a way that
> it won't shut down clean, so the machine won't come back up.  There's
> probably an easy way to fix it but I haven't wanted to badly enough to
> figure it out.
>
> Note--I'm not including a link because (a) it's bootleg and (b) if too
> many people go for the link it will likely be taken down.  I was able
> to find it--so can anyone else who is sufficiently interested.

Yep, you might be able to fool around with z/OS on your PC
but no company actually running production is going to bootleg their OS.
There's a lot of other stuff that would need to be bootlegged too.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#213110

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-08-25 16:28 +0100
Message-ID<20200825162805.19576957112bb9265887ded2@eircom.net>
In reply to#213101
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 10:43:26 -0400
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep, you might be able to fool around with z/OS on your PC
> but no company actually running production is going to bootleg their OS.
> There's a lot of other stuff that would need to be bootlegged too.

	Also you don't choose z/OS for price/performance you choose it to
get IBM support, I doubt they'd support it under Hercules even if you paid
for it.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#213113

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 11:52 -0400
Message-ID<t0cakfp5jpsv27routtjdbmf5sgi8t2bh4@4ax.com>
In reply to#213101
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 10:43:26 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:56:41 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>>>
>>>> And there's GNU COBOL.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I've heard all of those.
>>>
>>>MVS 3.8 doesn't really sound viable.
>>>
>>>I just lack any real world experience where anyone tried to use COBOL on
>>>UNIX or a PC.
>>
>> Hercules will run the latest version of Z/OS.  The problem isn't
>> Hercules, it's getting Z/OS.
>>
>> Someone in China put a copy of Z/OS 1.something up online that can be
>> run on Hercules.  It works but it's misconfigured in such a way that
>> it won't shut down clean, so the machine won't come back up.  There's
>> probably an easy way to fix it but I haven't wanted to badly enough to
>> figure it out.
>>
>> Note--I'm not including a link because (a) it's bootleg and (b) if too
>> many people go for the link it will likely be taken down.  I was able
>> to find it--so can anyone else who is sufficiently interested.
>
>Yep, you might be able to fool around with z/OS on your PC
>but no company actually running production is going to bootleg their OS.
>There's a lot of other stuff that would need to be bootlegged too.

The package the Chinese put up is the full ADCD so pretty much
everything you might need is there.  What's missing is the third party
stuff that most installations run--no OMC-Flash, or File-Aid, or any
of the rest of that.

Note that it's possible to get a licensed Z/OS for PC for about
$12,000 (after taxes etc).

<https://www.ibm.com/marketplace/purchase/configuration/en/us/checkout?editionID=EIDXNMGM>

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#213133

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<709042030.620070525.628006.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213101
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:56:41 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:37:29 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but not on your PC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just
>>>>> fine. I think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is
>>>>> pretty close to the IBM version.
>>>> 
>>>> And there's GNU COBOL.
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I've heard all of those.
>>> 
>>> MVS 3.8 doesn't really sound viable.
>>> 
>>> I just lack any real world experience where anyone tried to use COBOL on
>>> UNIX or a PC.
>> 
>> Hercules will run the latest version of Z/OS.  The problem isn't
>> Hercules, it's getting Z/OS.
>> 
>> Someone in China put a copy of Z/OS 1.something up online that can be
>> run on Hercules.  It works but it's misconfigured in such a way that
>> it won't shut down clean, so the machine won't come back up.  There's
>> probably an easy way to fix it but I haven't wanted to badly enough to
>> figure it out.
>> 
>> Note--I'm not including a link because (a) it's bootleg and (b) if too
>> many people go for the link it will likely be taken down.  I was able
>> to find it--so can anyone else who is sufficiently interested.
> 
> Yep, you might be able to fool around with z/OS on your PC
> but no company actually running production is going to bootleg their OS.
> There's a lot of other stuff that would need to be bootlegged too.
> 
> 

I think I have a copy floating around on a disk somewhere, but I’ve never
used it. Anytime I need IBM VM/370 is fine and a lot simpler.

-- 
Pete

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#213109

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-08-25 15:16 +0000
Message-ID<BX91H.142773$9r7.83872@fx07.iad>
In reply to#213068
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>> 
>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>> not on your PC.
>
>Actually, you can. Run Hercules and OS or DOS, and they’ll run just fine. I
>think native MicroFocus COBOL (whatever it’s called now) is pretty close to
>the IBM version.
>

Indeed, I still run Burroughs COBOL programs (including the Star Trek game)
on my V-series simulator under linux on a PC.

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#213092

From"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1>
Date2020-08-25 12:56 +0000
Message-ID<XnsAC248DDF85705admin127001@144.76.35.198>
In reply to#213057
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

[]
> 
> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
> Like those COBOL overlays.
> 
> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
> never have to reprogram the machine again.
> 
> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
> not on your PC.
> 

Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  



-- 
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

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#213099

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:40 -0400
Message-ID<ri37tl$l3h$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213092
"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:

> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> []
>> 
>> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
>> Like those COBOL overlays.
>> 
>> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
>> never have to reprogram the machine again.
>> 
>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>> not on your PC.
>> 
>
> Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  

Other posters claim it may be possible, but
yeah, the COBOL may be somewhat portable but
the S/360 world abounds with incompatible stuff
not so easy to duplicate.  IMS DC and DB, CICS,
EBCDIC, JCL.

But when IBM was claiming S/360 used the number
360 because it covered all your needs forever, they
were fully expecting you to stay on their platform.

I always thought it was very odd that they touted 360
as the full circle then announced the S/370.

Their marketing people are way out of control.
OS went through name change after name change.
z/OS is just a stop along the way.

I was a bit surprised that I was able to stop the
documentation writers at my employer from changing
all the documentation changes from MVS to z/OS.

Reminds me of:

  "the names have been changed to protect the innocent".


-- 
Dan Espen

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#213132

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<1758839855.620070447.626719.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213099
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
> 
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> []
>>> 
>>> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
>>> Like those COBOL overlays.
>>> 
>>> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
>>> never have to reprogram the machine again.
>>> 
>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>>> not on your PC.
>>> 
>> 
>> Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  
> 
> Other posters claim it may be possible, but
> yeah, the COBOL may be somewhat portable but
> the S/360 world abounds with incompatible stuff
> not so easy to duplicate.  IMS DC and DB, CICS,
> EBCDIC, JCL.
> 
> But when IBM was claiming S/360 used the number
> 360 because it covered all your needs forever, they
> were fully expecting you to stay on their platform.
> 
> I always thought it was very odd that they touted 360
> as the full circle then announced the S/370.
> 
> Their marketing people are way out of control.
> OS went through name change after name change.
> z/OS is just a stop along the way.
> 
> I was a bit surprised that I was able to stop the
> documentation writers at my employer from changing
> all the documentation changes from MVS to z/OS.

Sounds like a simple sed command to me.

-- 
Pete

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#213144

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 15:58 -0400
Message-ID<ri3qh0$g6r$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213132
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> []
>>>> 
>>>> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
>>>> Like those COBOL overlays.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
>>>> never have to reprogram the machine again.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>>>> not on your PC.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  
>> 
>> Other posters claim it may be possible, but
>> yeah, the COBOL may be somewhat portable but
>> the S/360 world abounds with incompatible stuff
>> not so easy to duplicate.  IMS DC and DB, CICS,
>> EBCDIC, JCL.
>> 
>> But when IBM was claiming S/360 used the number
>> 360 because it covered all your needs forever, they
>> were fully expecting you to stay on their platform.
>> 
>> I always thought it was very odd that they touted 360
>> as the full circle then announced the S/370.
>> 
>> Their marketing people are way out of control.
>> OS went through name change after name change.
>> z/OS is just a stop along the way.
>> 
>> I was a bit surprised that I was able to stop the
>> documentation writers at my employer from changing
>> all the documentation changes from MVS to z/OS.
>
> Sounds like a simple sed command to me.

And a blizzard of pointless change marks all over the document.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213142

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
Message-ID<ri3qf302ag0@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#213099
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> []
>> 
>>> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
>>> Like those COBOL overlays.
>>> 
>>> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
>>> never have to reprogram the machine again.
>>> 
>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>>> not on your PC.
>>
>> Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  
>
> Other posters claim it may be possible, but
> yeah, the COBOL may be somewhat portable but
> the S/360 world abounds with incompatible stuff
> not so easy to duplicate.  IMS DC and DB, CICS,
> EBCDIC, JCL.

Some of those aren't too bad.  We ported some COBOL batch
programs from Univac OS/3 (sort of related to IBM stuff) to
Unix.  The Micro Focus COBOL compiler actually worked fairly
well - although it picked a stupidly small default size for
sort work files.  When testing a program that did a large
sort, we wound up with about 12,500 work files when it barfed.
The files were given names ending in a 3-digit number, and
when it hit 999 it just kept incrementing the first digit
through the ASCII set: :00 through :99, ;00 through ;99,
all the way up through the upper and lower case alphabets
etc., wrapping around to <NUL>00 through <NUL>99, <SOH>00
through <SOH>99, and onwards.  It took a bit of work to
clean up the mess.

> But when IBM was claiming S/360 used the number
> 360 because it covered all your needs forever, they
> were fully expecting you to stay on their platform.
>
> I always thought it was very odd that they touted 360
> as the full circle then announced the S/370.

    Three hundred sixty-five degrees
    Burning down the house
      -- Talking Heads

> Their marketing people are way out of control.

That's a succinct description of the entire computer industry
(or any other, for that matter) for the last 60 years.

> OS went through name change after name change.
> z/OS is just a stop along the way.
>
> I was a bit surprised that I was able to stop the
> documentation writers at my employer from changing
> all the documentation changes from MVS to z/OS.
>
> Reminds me of:
>
>   "the names have been changed to protect the innocent".

s/innocent/guilty/

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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#213148

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 16:48 -0400
Message-ID<b6uakft42nle7j0lpejtupd8etbo9r5icf@4ax.com>
In reply to#213142
On 25 Aug 2020 19:57:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:18:15 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> []
>>> 
>>>> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
>>>> Like those COBOL overlays.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
>>>> never have to reprogram the machine again.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
>>>> not on your PC.
>>>
>>> Why? too much dependency on 360 features?  
>>
>> Other posters claim it may be possible, but
>> yeah, the COBOL may be somewhat portable but
>> the S/360 world abounds with incompatible stuff
>> not so easy to duplicate.  IMS DC and DB, CICS,
>> EBCDIC, JCL.
>
>Some of those aren't too bad.  We ported some COBOL batch
>programs from Univac OS/3 (sort of related to IBM stuff) to
>Unix.  The Micro Focus COBOL compiler actually worked fairly
>well - although it picked a stupidly small default size for
>sort work files.  When testing a program that did a large
>sort, we wound up with about 12,500 work files when it barfed.
>The files were given names ending in a 3-digit number, and
>when it hit 999 it just kept incrementing the first digit
>through the ASCII set: :00 through :99, ;00 through ;99,
>all the way up through the upper and lower case alphabets
>etc., wrapping around to <NUL>00 through <NUL>99, <SOH>00
>through <SOH>99, and onwards.  It took a bit of work to
>clean up the mess.
>
>> But when IBM was claiming S/360 used the number
>> 360 because it covered all your needs forever, they
>> were fully expecting you to stay on their platform.
>>
>> I always thought it was very odd that they touted 360
>> as the full circle then announced the S/370.
>
>    Three hundred sixty-five degrees
>    Burning down the house
>      -- Talking Heads
>
>> Their marketing people are way out of control.
>
>That's a succinct description of the entire computer industry
>(or any other, for that matter) for the last 60 years.

Just an aside, but there was also the IBM 4pi, which was used in the
Space Shuttle among other systems.  A 360 trimmed down to where it
could be used to control an aircraft.
>
>> OS went through name change after name change.
>> z/OS is just a stop along the way.
>>
>> I was a bit surprised that I was able to stop the
>> documentation writers at my employer from changing
>> all the documentation changes from MVS to z/OS.
>>
>> Reminds me of:
>>
>>   "the names have been changed to protect the innocent".
>
>s/innocent/guilty/

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#213157

Fromhancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Date2020-08-25 14:26 -0700
Message-ID<0789faaf-1342-4a31-87cd-14c88a21d9d2o@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#213057
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 5:18:17 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> 
> > On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 8:56:24 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> >> On 2020-08-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Memory was so expensive in the old days that many computer
> >> > makers simply pitched machines with inadequate memory to
> >> > make a sale.  When the machine performed poorly in service,
> >> > they sell more memory.
> >> >
> >> > In my humble opinion, 8k would simply be too small, even
> >> > for a rudimentary mainframe system.  Heck, while you
> >> > could get by with 32k (and I think some folks here did so),
> >> > it was a tight squeeze.
> >> 
> >> Been there, done that.  In my case the machine was the Univac 9300,
> >> their answer to the IBM 360/20.  I started on a 16K card-based
> >> machine, although we upgraded to 32K when we added disks.
> >> I did do some work on an 8K machine - it wasn't fun.
> >> 
> >> And you're right about salesmen low-balling memory requirements.
> >> IMHO the purpose of salesmen is to get the company into trouble,
> >> and the purpose of us techies is to bail them out.
> >
> > I read at least one business history that claimed 
> > businesses went into computers too early.  That is,
> > the price/performance in those early days was not
> > justified by the benefits received.  Many 
> > business people bought computers as part of 
> > "keep up with the Jones" mentality, not on
> > actual cost/benefits.  Programming was very
> > difficult, there were simply nowhere near
> > enough good application programmers around
> > to support the need.
> 
> Programming a 1401 in Autocoder was way easier than
> programming a 360 in Assembler.  I wouldn't call
> a 360 in COBOL much easier than a 1401 in Autocoder.
> 
> Programmers were very rare though.  when I started
> compared to other office workers, I could write my
> own ticket.  Especially good programmers.
> Every shop had one or 2 talented guys surrounded by
> a bunch of hangers on.
> 
> > Plus, computers back
> > then were harder to program without good
> > operating systems.
> 
> Not sure about that.  A 14xx without an operating system was
> actually easier to program than what IBM supplied as a sort of OS
> for the 14xx.  I'm also not sure about the term good OS.
> I can't think of any of them I'd call good.
> We started using operating systems because the machine got too
> complex to use otherwise.

Here's a question:  how about I/O issues? Did the 1401 come
with an "IOCS", that is, macros to do some of the grunt
work of I/O?  For instance, in doing tape I/O, usually
an indicator is set whether the execution was successful
or not.  A programmer would read that to check.  On
later machines, macros did that automatically.  How
was it done on the 1401?

Also, what about random reads?  On S/360 we had ISAM and
then VSAM, indexed files.  Have the record key and read
away easily.  But on 1401 (and early 360) I think
the programmer had to hard calculate the sector on
disk to relate to a particular record.



> > Everything had to
> > be written from scratch.  Programmers
> > had to resort to tricks to squeeze in
> > work in small memories.
> 
> Those tricks continued into the S/360 days.
> Like those COBOL overlays.
> 
> One of the S/360 selling points is that you would
> never have to reprogram the machine again.
> 
> Well, you can still run your old COBOL programs but
> not on your PC.
> 
> > Old time DP managers told me they did
> > better with tabulating machines, the
> > cost/benefits were better.  Sure, they
> > weren't as sophisticated, but they got
> > the job done more reliably.
> 
> Now, that I never heard.

I heard that from a number of old timers.  The
reason was that tabulator procedures were
pretty straight forward and predictable.  It
sounded like "development" (planning and wiring
the various plugboards) didn't take all that
much time.

In contrast, writing code could be unpredictable,
especially for complicated processes.  Debugging
could take a while.

I suspect tabulator work was simpler overall than
computer work, and thus less likely to foul up.




> Many a manager couldn't wait to get their stuff off EAM and onto the
> computer.  For my first 5 - 10 years that was the main focus of our
> work.  We had a few guys that would go out of their way to keep their
> precious punched card master decks, but the EAM stuff had to die.

I think that motivation would depend on the environment.  If
the work volume exceeded that of the tab machines (which were
pretty slow), then yes, they'd want something faster.  If the
calculations or record selections or reporting were more
complex than the tab machines could do--as often happened--
then they'd want something more powerful.

But in a stable environment, they told me they liked things
as they were.

Note that in the IBM histories, tab machines were economical
for customers.  IBM had to develop the System/3 to get 
something cheap enough to get the remaining tab customers
onto computers.



> My start was the 1401 era.  I believe every one of them paid their way.
> There was an intangible benefit to the computer too.

The 1401 was a good machine, very popular and well liked.
But it was a fairly simple machine, and as you said,
easy to program, more so than S/360.


> Many companies put their machine on the ground floor behind a big glass
> window.  Showing their corporation was "modern".

Very true, but that was very expensive window dressing.  Indeed,
in my opinion, in hindsight, rather foolish.  But yes,
CEO's liked to brag.




> I believe corporations first saved money with EAM and then again
> with computers.  Often the staff didn't shrink, instead the
> business was able to expand.

I think if corporations took a very hard and honest look at their
early computerization, it would be a mixed bag.  Computers
and programmers were extremely expensive years back.  Manual
clerks and adding machines were not.  Lots of organizations
did not computerize and made do with bookkeeping machines
or even just adding machines.

Lots of systems came in very late and over budget.  didn't
work that well.  Not sure how cost-efficient that all was.
Indeed, sometimes companies stuck with a bad system to
avoid admitting they screwed up.

In 1966 Grosch wrote an essay, "PROGRAMMERS: THE INDUSTRY'S COSA NOSTRA 
stop making human beings speak algebra"
http://bitsavers.org/magazines/Datamation/196610.pdf

In that era, the magazine had more display ads 
seeking programmers than selling hardware.

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