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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 367 — 28 participants |
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
[OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:00 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 06:32 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:56 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:41 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:48 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:35 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:46 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 21:53 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:07 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:23 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:45 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:25 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:31 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:19 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 03:59 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 09:08 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:31 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 17:25 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 02:06 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-11 21:19 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:50 +0000
Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-11 22:52 +0000
Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:16 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 21:43 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:03 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:41 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 08:42 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 16:49 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-11 17:18 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 10:06 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 18:13 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:57 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 19:03 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:38 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 22:21 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 00:20 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
PCs and Mainframes (Re: what's a mainframe) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 18:50 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:15 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:45 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:47 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:36 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:42 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:23 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 22:02 +0100
Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:19 +0000
Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:09 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:29 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:19 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:55 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:57 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Page 11 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 19 Next page →
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <VCaJS.14786$V43.332@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #236792 |
On 2026-11-11, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > The later VT200 series were nice and sleek and all that, but I felt > they were a step backwards in one respect: press the “SET-UP” key, and > it took perceptibly longer to switch to the setup menu than the old > VT100 did -- that was instant. I assume the older model had some > double-buffering display hardware support which was dropped from the > newer range ... It was a step backwards in another respect too: it indulged in the same sort of keyboard layout shenanigans as the IBM PC. I refused to touch one for that reason. It took the industry at least 10 years to recover from the silliness that the IBM PC keyboard layout inflicted on it. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 19:03 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3a98$3jlh5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236784 |
On 11/11/2026 09:18, Thomas Koenig wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> schrieb: > >> Went into a bank in the mid noughties and the PC was running some sort >> of remote terminal APP into a mainframe somewhere > > The colored variant of the 3270 terminals or terminal emulators > (distinctive coloring easy to recognize) are in use at a furniture > store a few km from where I live. No idea what system they have > in the background, though. > > But terminals are interesting. I read a bit on the documentation of the > VT52, where they talked a lot about microcode. The VT100 had a > microprocessor already, an 8080. > > Which is why it would have been trivial for DEC to build a reasonable > PC when they were building terminals. Indeed they did - The Rainbow PC-100 from 1982 was a dual-CPU version with a VT220 like screen. It had a Z80 to run CP/M and an 8088 to run MS-DOS. An engineer would say that with 896 KB of RAM it was superior to the IBM-PC; but it did not have an ISA bus, so it would never be clone-level compatible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_100 But in my opinion, the DecMate based on a single-chip PDP-8 was a much superior PC for office use. -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <Qi4JS.4682$F63.2511@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #236783 |
On 2026-11-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > A touch typist who can tab through fields is the fastest way to enter > data, and any eye candy is mere distraction This harks back to my frequently-stated belief that computer systems should be ugly and boring. Ugly as in lacking the eye candy that just gets in the way, and boring as in it Just Works without any unpleasant surprises. It's too bad that fast, efficient, easy-to-use designs have gone out of style, having been replaced by increasing layers of complexity that make systems cumbersome and prone to failure. (But they're awfully pretty...) I'm seeing more and more breakdowns that remind me of E.M. Forster's 1909 story "The Machine Stops". (His characters even used an equivalent to today's iPad.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 22:38 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f9o3c.37o09.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236783 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/11/2026 16:42, John Ames wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:36:43 +0000
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I see you never used the serial cards with up to 32 terminals
>>>>> attached to a PC running SCO unix.
>>>>
>>>> I never touched SCO Unix, I got my Unix start on SunOS/Solaris and
>>>> very early Linux.
>>>>
>>>>> They were essentially IO processors
>>>>
>>>> Sure, they have to be to handle than many serial lines.
>>>>
>>>> But even in the "PC server" space, those were not that common.
>>>
>>> Depends on your age and experience. I saw many. A multiuser system
>>> that could handle 32 screens running a database oriented program for
>>> < $10,000 was a very good alternative to a VAX.
>>
>> Some of those setups persisted a surprisingly long time in the field.
>> Used to work in the back room at a call center that was still running a
>> terminal-based setup 'til early 2012; when all you need is a form for
>> the reps to punch orders into, it Just Works.
>>
>> (Never got into the backend enough to learn what the host was running;
>> some flavor of *nix that also managed the PBX, but the business end had
>> been built on a Win2k Server box in Visual FoxPro, of all things.)
>>
> Went into a bank in the mid noughties and the PC was running some sort
> of remote terminal APP into a mainframe somewhere
Flying in the early 2010s, peeked at the display of the attendants
desktop at checkin: Some sort of Windows, but 90% of the screen was
occupied by a (IIRC) 3270 terminal emulator connected to the airline's
system and clearly showing a typical mainframe app.
> A touch typist who can tab through fields is the fastest way to enter
> data, and any eye candy is mere distraction
Indeed. Just the learning curve is a bit steeper than most people these
days are used to.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 22:21 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <1U5JS.11287$wY2.2334@fx24.iad> |
| In reply to | #236794 |
Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes: >The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 11/11/2026 16:42, John Ames wrote: >>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:36:43 +0000 >>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>>>> I see you never used the serial cards with up to 32 terminals >>>>>> attached to a PC running SCO unix. >>>>> >>>>> I never touched SCO Unix, I got my Unix start on SunOS/Solaris and >>>>> very early Linux. >>>>> >>>>>> They were essentially IO processors >>>>> >>>>> Sure, they have to be to handle than many serial lines. >>>>> >>>>> But even in the "PC server" space, those were not that common. >>>> >>>> Depends on your age and experience. I saw many. A multiuser system >>>> that could handle 32 screens running a database oriented program for >>>> < $10,000 was a very good alternative to a VAX. >>> >>> Some of those setups persisted a surprisingly long time in the field. >>> Used to work in the back room at a call center that was still running a >>> terminal-based setup 'til early 2012; when all you need is a form for >>> the reps to punch orders into, it Just Works. >>> >>> (Never got into the backend enough to learn what the host was running; >>> some flavor of *nix that also managed the PBX, but the business end had >>> been built on a Win2k Server box in Visual FoxPro, of all things.) >>> >> Went into a bank in the mid noughties and the PC was running some sort >> of remote terminal APP into a mainframe somewhere > >Flying in the early 2010s, peeked at the display of the attendants >desktop at checkin: Some sort of Windows, but 90% of the screen was >occupied by a (IIRC) 3270 terminal emulator connected to the airline's >system and clearly showing a typical mainframe app. It's entirely likely that was communicating with a Unisys 2200/Clearpath system (UNIVAC Standard Airline System). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAS_(application)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 00:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f9u2j.39dl1.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236796 |
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>>The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2026 16:42, John Ames wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:36:43 +0000
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I see you never used the serial cards with up to 32 terminals
>>>>>>> attached to a PC running SCO unix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never touched SCO Unix, I got my Unix start on SunOS/Solaris and
>>>>>> very early Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They were essentially IO processors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, they have to be to handle than many serial lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But even in the "PC server" space, those were not that common.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on your age and experience. I saw many. A multiuser system
>>>>> that could handle 32 screens running a database oriented program for
>>>>> < $10,000 was a very good alternative to a VAX.
>>>>
>>>> Some of those setups persisted a surprisingly long time in the field.
>>>> Used to work in the back room at a call center that was still running a
>>>> terminal-based setup 'til early 2012; when all you need is a form for
>>>> the reps to punch orders into, it Just Works.
>>>>
>>>> (Never got into the backend enough to learn what the host was running;
>>>> some flavor of *nix that also managed the PBX, but the business end had
>>>> been built on a Win2k Server box in Visual FoxPro, of all things.)
>>>>
>>> Went into a bank in the mid noughties and the PC was running some sort
>>> of remote terminal APP into a mainframe somewhere
>>
>>Flying in the early 2010s, peeked at the display of the attendants
>>desktop at checkin: Some sort of Windows, but 90% of the screen was
>>occupied by a (IIRC) 3270 terminal emulator connected to the airline's
>>system and clearly showing a typical mainframe app.
>
> It's entirely likely that was communicating with a Unisys
> 2200/Clearpath system (UNIVAC Standard Airline System).
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAS_(application)
Bingo! IIRC the airline was Lufthansa and they were indeed a longtime
user of that system from what I could find.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <UCaJS.14784$V43.13377@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #236794 |
On 2026-11-11, Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> A touch typist who can tab through fields is the fastest way to enter >> data, and any eye candy is mere distraction > > Indeed. Just the learning curve is a bit steeper than most people these > days are used to. Perhaps, but oh, the advantages once you've learned it. And you only had to learn it once, rather than having to start all over again when each year's new model comes out. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 18:50 -0800 |
| Subject | PCs and Mainframes (Re: what's a mainframe) |
| Message-ID | <11d39ha$3jdkc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236783 |
On 11/11/2026 08:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > Went into a bank in the mid noughties and the PC was running some sort > of remote terminal APP into a mainframe somewhere > > A touch typist who can tab through fields is the fastest way to enter > data, and any eye candy is mere distraction By that time, I suspect the interface protocol would have been TN3270 (3270 over telnet). -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 22:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d06np$2iil7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236717 |
On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not > done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was > entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials > that were essentially limited computers of their own ... Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true. > Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of > busily doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form > based terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the > browser, send as a whole form and processed as a single request by > the server, instead of the server handling every keystroke on the > terminal) enabled having thousands of interactive users on one > mainframe ... Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously, but that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the real-time interaction requirements.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 12:15 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f8ji8.2e7kp.als@frodo.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236750 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>
>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not
>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was
>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials
>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ...
>
> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource.
> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't
flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to
do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics
processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI),
modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers
running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own,
see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on.
>> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of
>> busily doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form
>> based terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the
>> browser, send as a whole form and processed as a single request by
>> the server, instead of the server handling every keystroke on the
>> terminal) enabled having thousands of interactive users on one
>> mainframe ...
>
> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously, but
> that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the
> real-time interaction requirements.
The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive traffic,
that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local edits - mainframe
style" model. Mostly because that's a lot easier to implement and also it
scales a lot better.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 07:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d1v23$341f0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236766 |
On 11/11/26 04:15, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> >>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not >>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was >>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials >>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ... >> >> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource. >> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true. > > It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't > flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to > do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics > processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI), > modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers > running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own, > see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on. > >>> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of >>> busily doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form >>> based terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the >>> browser, send as a whole form and processed as a single request by >>> the server, instead of the server handling every keystroke on the >>> terminal) enabled having thousands of interactive users on one >>> mainframe ... >> >> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously, but >> that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the >> real-time interaction requirements. > > The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive traffic, > that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local edits - mainframe > style" model. Mostly because that's a lot easier to implement and also it > scales a lot better. > > Kind regards, > Alex. > Computing HARDWARE has gotten so much cheaper it makes sense to put some intelligence into any device so "the computer" can just ask it to do something and go do something else.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 15:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <560JS.1656$f83.546@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #236766 |
Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes: >Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> >>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not >>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was >>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials >>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ... >> >> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource. >> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true. > >It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't >flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to >do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics >processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI), >modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers >running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own, >see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on. https://www.marvell.com/products/data-processing-units.html These are all peripherals, either directly soldered on the mainboard, or via PCI-Express cards slots.
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 22:36 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f9nu9.37o09.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236781 |
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>>Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not
>>>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was
>>>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials
>>>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ...
>>>
>>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource.
>>> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>>
>>It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't
>>flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to
>>do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics
>>processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI),
>>modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers
>>running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own,
>>see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on.
>
> https://www.marvell.com/products/data-processing-units.html
>
> These are all peripherals, either directly soldered on
> the mainboard, or via PCI-Express cards slots.
I know, I've got some NVidia Bluefield 2 DPUs right here. 2x 25 GBit/s
SFP+ ports and an nice computer (8x Cortex A72 at 2+GHz, 16/32G of
ECC RAM and 64/128G of eMMC, running Linux) inside the card (with its
own Gigabit Ethernet port).
Friends of mine are playing with those a lot, first one of them managed
to run DOOM on it and the latest trick was connecting a BlueField 2 via
PCIe interface to a regular (if somewhat older) PC GPU and having the
Bluefield drive _that_ to run graphics. No "regular" PC required at all.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 21:42 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <nmadnb9ZHYmxS273nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236717 |
On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote: >>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between >>>> mainframes and minis. >>>> >>>> Will someone try to elaborate ? >>> >>> The classic difference is that mainframes have channels, so the >>> processor sets up a bunch of work for the channel to do, the channel >>> goes off and does it independently of the CPU. Minis had much less >>> complex I/O controllers so they do more detailed stuff. An example I >>> gave a few messages back was for a card reader. A mainframe starts a >>> channel program, it reads in a card or maybe seveal cards, and reports >>> back with an interrupt. On a mini there was an I/O operation to start >>> the card reader, an interrupt for each column and an I/O to read it, >>> and then something at the end to stop the reader or go to the next >>> card. >>> >>> But that was 40 or 50 years ago. These days even cheap generic disk >>> controllers do more than channels did in the 1960s, e.g., keep a queue >>> of requests and schedule them to minimize delay, and handle spare block >>> replacement for bad blocks. >>> >>> Modern mainframes have extremely capable channels but the distinction is >>> more about reliability and things like hardware and software upgrades in >>> place without rebooting. >> >> Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more >> 'directors' for distributed processing rather >> than THE processor. > > No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe > CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back > then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home > computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- > loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their > own: > - CPU tells I/O interface (channel): "Do this I/O" > - CPU goes back to computing, channel does some I/O heavy lifting > - channel has completed I/O and sends an "Hey, I'm done" interrupt > to the CPU > > Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily > doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based > terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send > as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead > of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having > thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU > did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for > inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized > computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with > extra complexity for a far more capable system. > > Kind regards, > Alex. I kind of see what model you're describing. Really not THAT much different from what I outlined. "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have to do nearly as much. The downside is that now you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials rather than fine managing/optimizing via the main CPU. Always some trade-offs. At least these days the devices are more "standardized". Plug in any USB device and it almost always 'just works' and uses the same set-up/send/receive commands. NOT so in the Old Days.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 15:23 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <HL%IS.1652$f83.1378@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #236756 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote: >>>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>>> Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between >>>>> mainframes and minis. >>>>> >>>>> Will someone try to elaborate ? <snip> >> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily >> doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based >> terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send >> as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead >> of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having >> thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU >> did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for >> inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized >> computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with >> extra complexity for a far more capable system. >> >> Kind regards, >> Alex. > > I kind of see what model you're describing. > Really not THAT much different from what > I outlined. > > "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have > to do nearly as much. The downside is that now > you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials > rather than fine managing/optimizing via the > main CPU. How is that a downside? Modern peripherals seem to do quite well at both maanging and optimizing without interactions with the main CPU. There are lots of knobs that can be used to tune the behavior of the peripheral controller(s). Particularly in the ethernet networking space - managing traffic classes, handling encryption, adding/removing headers (e.g. MPLS or other tunnelling schemes) are all implemented in the controller (with control and tuning knobs available to the operating system). Some of the controllers I work with are even more complex (e.g. radio area networks, front-haul, back-haul, etc).
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cufut$1ud0f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236684 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb: > Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between > mainframes and minis. I have a somewhat personal definition of a mainframe, which I also includes the classical ones. A mainframe is a computer that - is very expensive - takes large resources to run (a computer center) - has very good performance in at least one field - is not a cluster, massively parallel etc As computers have evolved, the field of performance has shifted. The 704 and the Cray-1 both had high computing performance for their day, but low reliability. The 360/30 was slow, but had good I/O capabilities. Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit the Recovery Unit), good I/O and lots of sub-processors to lighten the load on the CPU. I read that, when minis came along, their first defining characteristic was that they didn't need computer center resources and fit in a single room. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cuh1m$1ugqa$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236714 |
On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: > Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they > have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet > through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit > the Recovery Unit) ... Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to take it out. The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the foundation software they use is available to you, too <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f5q78.2l8ql.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236715 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>
> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
> take it out.
>
> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
> foundation software they use is available to you, too
><https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
nature, fine.
Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
- _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
failure every half hour)
- deal with it
- run a software stack that is highly distributed and highly redundant,
e.g. do not just store one or two copies of data, store 4 copies
of the data plus two copies of the recovery checksums so you still
recover the data after losing some pieces
- you will end up with impressive complexity because building a reliable
system on top of unreliable components is not easy
- it helps a lot if your workloads can tolerate small to tiny amounts
of failure (e.g. loading a web page times out, uploading a file fails)
- but reliable operations (such as a planet scale consistent database)
are doable, they just need more work and smarts
- one key aspect: well designed highly distributed system scale very
well, a scale-up factor of 10 without any system changes aside from
adding more hardware falls under "baseline capability" and much higher
scale-ups are the norm
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cva7o$27ikm$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236716 |
On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: >> >>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they >>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet >>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit >>> the Recovery Unit) ... >> >> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher >> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly >> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced >> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of >> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to >> take it out. >> >> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” >> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the >> foundation software they use is available to you, too >> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>. > > Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The > machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system > cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a > small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail" > nature, fine. > > Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers > are built on an entirely different design philosophy: > - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF > for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady > rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and > you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a > failure every half hour) Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on rollerblades to swap out failing components?
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <8BGIS.9173$S23.4717@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #236724 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes: >On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: >>> >>>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they >>>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet >>>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit >>>> the Recovery Unit) ... >>> >>> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher >>> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly >>> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced >>> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of >>> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to >>> take it out. >>> >>> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” >>> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the >>> foundation software they use is available to you, too >>> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>. >> >> Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The >> machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system >> cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a >> small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail" >> nature, fine. >> >> Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers >> are built on an entirely different design philosophy: >> - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF >> for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady >> rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and >> you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a >> failure every half hour) > >Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on >rollerblades to swap out failing components? > The Minneapolis Fed Reserve operators were reputed to have worn roller skates when sorting checks (the sorters, with full complement of pockets, were quite long).
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