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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #163878 > unrolled thread
| Started by | hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-23 16:40 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-05-25 15:07 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 598 — 36 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-23 16:40 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 14:06 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-05-24 14:22 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-24 16:39 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 07:47 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-25 15:00 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-25 13:30 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-05-25 16:12 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-25 15:13 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-25 16:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-25 16:33 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-26 12:07 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 16:22 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-28 13:17 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:29 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-29 10:03 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 07:26 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-29 15:16 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-31 17:44 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-31 19:22 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 07:41 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 10:49 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 06:36 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-29 15:30 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-29 23:56 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 07:26 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:24 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 06:54 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 06:50 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Larry <lelmore76@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:29 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:45 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-05-25 17:58 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-05-25 22:04 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-26 00:31 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-26 10:07 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-06-29 17:55 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-05-26 15:57 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-05-26 20:00 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-27 11:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-27 15:49 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-27 20:28 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-28 13:18 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-28 17:53 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-29 13:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-29 16:33 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-31 18:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2016-05-31 14:10 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-01 12:57 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 22:19 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-01 07:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 12:08 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-01 11:10 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-01 10:22 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-03 13:51 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-05 14:22 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:14 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-06 16:15 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 14:11 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-07 02:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-01 17:03 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 11:31 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-02 15:09 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-03 16:41 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-03 15:49 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-03 10:06 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 16:18 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-05 23:26 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 18:16 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:28 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-04 02:43 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-04 11:08 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-05 23:14 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:59 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-05 16:39 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 21:12 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 17:18 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-08 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 08:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-17 03:36 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-17 12:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-05 10:20 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-06 09:04 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-06 10:23 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-07 08:59 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-08 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-08 15:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-08 15:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-08 10:34 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-08 11:13 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-09 16:01 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-09 10:39 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-09 10:00 -0700
Dynamic adaptive resource management (was: PL/I advertising "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-06-09 08:45 -0700
Re: Dynamic adaptive resource management (was: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-09 10:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-07 08:36 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 18:17 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-06 15:06 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 23:39 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-07 10:05 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-07 10:14 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-07 10:18 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-07 12:24 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:32 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-07 22:41 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-08 11:54 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:23 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-07 02:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-04 07:23 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-04 13:36 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 09:58 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 10:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 12:25 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-06 09:21 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-06 09:40 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 10:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-06 10:20 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 13:09 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-06 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-06 21:40 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-06 21:03 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 21:00 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-08 06:08 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 08:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-09 09:39 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:14 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-07 22:33 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 20:14 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 05:50 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-09 07:33 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-17 03:36 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-06 09:39 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-06 12:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 14:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-07 10:02 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-07 12:19 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 14:00 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:54 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-02 09:23 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-02 15:10 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-02 16:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-02 17:58 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-02 22:31 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-02 20:37 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-03 14:09 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-03 14:32 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-04 13:18 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-04 13:57 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-03 06:59 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-03 08:33 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-02 11:00 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-01 12:59 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:43 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2016-06-01 13:35 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 08:13 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2016-06-02 02:13 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-06-24 11:30 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-24 17:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-24 20:21 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-24 18:26 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2016-06-24 21:01 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-25 05:42 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-25 07:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-25 13:10 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-25 14:32 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-27 16:07 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-27 21:17 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-28 12:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-28 08:39 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-28 17:23 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-27 19:25 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-27 19:28 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-27 23:16 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-25 07:24 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-25 07:45 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-25 08:02 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-27 16:12 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-28 12:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-28 10:35 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-28 14:27 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-28 12:04 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-28 15:21 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-28 21:13 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-29 12:49 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-29 08:25 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-29 08:33 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-29 17:42 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-25 07:31 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-25 07:02 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-25 12:12 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-25 13:10 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-25 16:28 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-26 13:10 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-27 15:40 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-28 12:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Mike Causer <m.r.causer@goglemail.com> - 2016-06-28 22:40 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-28 22:49 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-28 20:25 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-29 10:08 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Mike Causer <m.r.causer@goglemail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:27 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-29 18:57 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-29 17:52 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-29 23:04 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising mausg@mail.com - 2016-06-30 18:27 +0000
PDP-10 ZORK [was Re: PL/I advertising] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-27 16:20 -0400
Re: PDP-10 ZORK [was Re: PL/I advertising] sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-06-28 00:22 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 13:47 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:46 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:42 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-01 16:09 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-02 12:57 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:57 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-02 15:17 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-02 20:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-02 13:51 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-02 22:16 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-04 02:43 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-02 20:24 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-02 13:48 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-02 20:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-03 13:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-03 07:50 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 10:36 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-03 11:38 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 11:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-03 21:10 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 11:28 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-03 12:59 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-03 05:44 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-03 05:40 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-03 10:16 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-03 07:37 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-03 17:16 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-04 06:16 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 07:12 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-04 08:52 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 14:06 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 14:46 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 16:03 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 08:25 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-05 17:50 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:39 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-03 13:30 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-03 13:27 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-06-05 10:04 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 11:47 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-02 16:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:20 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-03 09:40 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 17:40 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-04 10:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-04 15:40 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 16:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-04 17:59 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 19:06 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-04 12:31 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 14:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 14:50 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-05 14:13 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 16:15 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-07 13:24 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-05 18:44 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 21:14 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-05 23:07 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 22:22 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 16:15 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-03 16:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-03 17:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 17:37 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-03 14:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 21:21 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-06-03 17:04 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-04 10:54 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 15:03 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-04 12:08 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-04 16:28 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-05 10:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 11:47 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 08:51 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 13:06 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-05 16:05 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 15:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 12:11 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 21:12 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-05 06:12 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 09:45 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-05 07:42 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 13:24 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-05 10:01 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-05 18:48 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 14:29 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-05 14:06 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 19:47 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-07 07:58 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-06 09:30 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-06 10:13 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 10:14 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-06 12:04 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 11:27 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-06 12:45 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 11:48 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 13:08 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 13:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-06 14:57 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 16:17 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 18:21 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-06 14:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 16:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-06 09:51 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:14 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 20:59 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-08 07:26 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2016-06-08 12:00 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-07 15:33 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-06-07 18:08 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-08 12:40 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-08 09:45 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-08 19:06 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 18:17 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:50 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-05 09:56 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-05 12:39 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-05 12:28 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-05 16:02 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-06 09:27 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-04 13:28 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 21:02 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-05 03:04 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-04 22:42 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 07:20 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 21:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-06 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 17:26 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:07 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-06-04 16:28 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-06-04 16:39 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 17:39 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-06-04 16:51 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 22:10 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 18:21 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 23:02 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-04 23:57 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 07:20 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-05 09:25 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 08:25 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-04 13:05 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-04 20:18 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 11:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-07 22:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 05:49 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-09 07:03 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-05 17:42 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:32 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 08:25 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 13:04 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-05 12:11 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-05 21:08 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-06 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 16:13 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-06 10:00 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-06 18:42 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-06-05 17:53 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-06 12:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:45 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:32 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-08 11:53 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 22:06 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-04 13:33 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-04 14:00 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 17:31 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-07 13:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-07 15:34 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-08 00:28 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 20:10 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-06-04 13:14 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 15:39 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-06 13:01 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-03 21:21 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-03 11:14 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-03 16:45 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-03 15:12 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-03 12:56 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 16:05 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 16:09 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-09 17:27 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-10 06:58 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-10 11:42 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-16 17:07 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-17 12:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 16:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-29 23:44 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-29 23:50 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-31 16:09 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 16:15 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 13:49 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 17:34 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-04 02:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 12:47 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-04 16:23 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-05 23:19 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-06 18:12 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-07 12:11 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rob Doyle <radioengr@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 02:15 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-31 18:50 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-02 15:18 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:17 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:54 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-02 16:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 22:20 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-04 02:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-04 14:08 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-08 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 08:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-17 03:36 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-03 13:56 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-05-31 16:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-02 16:41 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-02 19:19 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-04 02:45 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-08 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 08:26 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-17 03:37 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-17 16:52 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-09 17:45 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:56 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2016-06-02 19:21 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-07 20:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:52 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 11:13 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-02 09:41 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Joe Chisolm <jchisolm6@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-31 13:37 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-31 12:19 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Joe Chisolm <jchisolm6@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-31 16:29 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 07:04 -0400
Re: Penn Central PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-01 13:15 -0700
Re: Penn Central PL/I advertising "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 15:38 -0500
Re: Penn Central PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-03 13:44 -0700
Re: Penn Central PL/I advertising Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-06-03 16:40 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 16:22 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-05-26 20:32 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-26 18:50 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-27 11:01 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-27 13:36 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-27 15:33 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-27 16:07 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-27 19:20 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-27 19:53 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-05-27 20:55 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-05-28 20:25 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-31 14:39 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-31 14:37 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-04 22:28 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-27 10:51 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 06:56 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-27 15:51 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-27 20:25 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-27 05:43 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-29 05:28 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-29 15:26 +0200
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 11:50 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-04 22:39 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-26 12:23 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 15:56 -0400
Re: PL/I advertising "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-04 22:21 -0500
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-05 05:38 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-06-29 17:53 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-29 18:58 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-30 07:20 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-30 14:27 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-06-30 22:29 +0100
Re: PL/I advertising Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-30 22:22 +0000
Re: PL/I advertising hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-25 15:03 -0700
Re: PL/I advertising Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-25 15:07 -0700
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-08 12:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000534C32493AED8@aca41ec1.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164761 |
Questor wrote: > On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:06 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >>Questor wrote: >>> On 4 Jun 2016 13:44:57 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>Questor wrote: >>>>> On 02 Jun 2016 19:19:35 -0400, Rich Alderson >><news@alderson.users.panix.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>Since I have never worked at a DECnet-compatible site in my nearly 40 >>years >>>>>>with the PDP-10 architecture, I may be forgiven for not knowing that >>>>Bliss-36 >>>>>>was used in that arena. >>>>> >>>>> No one is faulting you for that. How did you avoid DECnet for forty >>years? >>>>> Were all the systems ARPAnet only, no networking whatsoever, or homebrew? >>>>> I don't know if PDP-10s had ethernet support absent the DECnet product. >>>>> >>>>Look on the monitor distribution tape for the file ETHNET.MAC (spelling >>>>may be wrong). That is the monitor module which supported the hardware. >>>>ETHNET doesn't sound correct. >>> >>> The question is whether ethernet support was included in the monitor if the >>> customer didn't also have DECnet. My first thought was no, but then I >>> remembered that DEC was trying to sell things like LAT boxes, so maybe it >>was. >>> >>WEll, that's what the DECnet sales and product line people would have liked. >>Of course, those types would have wanted each file on a separate tape >>and charge $$$ for it. That's when DEC no longer existed and every >>non-development middle manager was tryng to go into "business" for >>him/herself by controlling a product. > > If you don't know the answer, you should just say so, instead of blaming > salespeople for doing their job. I thought I did answer your qeustion. Ethernet was used by the Unixes within DEC and they did not implement DECnet. Ethernet was a device and the module to run that device was in the monitor. ETHNET.MAC still doesn't look like it's spelled correctly but I cannot recall the correct spelling so you'll just have to live with that. /BAH
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-09 08:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5759283c.17951693@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164791 |
On 8 Jun 2016 12:09:48 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:06 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>>Questor wrote: >>>> On 4 Jun 2016 13:44:57 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>Questor wrote: >>>>>> On 02 Jun 2016 19:19:35 -0400, Rich Alderson >>><news@alderson.users.panix.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>Since I have never worked at a DECnet-compatible site in my nearly 40 >>>years >>>>>>>with the PDP-10 architecture, I may be forgiven for not knowing that >>>>>Bliss-36 >>>>>>>was used in that arena. >>>>>> >>>>>> No one is faulting you for that. How did you avoid DECnet for forty >>>years? >>>>>> Were all the systems ARPAnet only, no networking whatsoever, or >homebrew? >>>>>> I don't know if PDP-10s had ethernet support absent the DECnet product. >>>>>> >>>>>Look on the monitor distribution tape for the file ETHNET.MAC (spelling >>>>>may be wrong). That is the monitor module which supported the hardware. >>>>>ETHNET doesn't sound correct. >>>> >>>> The question is whether ethernet support was included in the monitor if >the >>>> customer didn't also have DECnet. My first thought was no, but then I >>>> remembered that DEC was trying to sell things like LAT boxes, so maybe it >>>was. >>>> >>>WEll, that's what the DECnet sales and product line people would have >liked. >>>Of course, those types would have wanted each file on a separate tape >>>and charge $$$ for it. That's when DEC no longer existed and every >>>non-development middle manager was tryng to go into "business" for >>>him/herself by controlling a product. >> >> If you don't know the answer, you should just say so, instead of blaming >> salespeople for doing their job. > >I thought I did answer your qeustion. Ethernet was used by the Unixes >within DEC and they did not implement DECnet. Ethernet was a device >and the module to run that device was in the monitor. ETHNET.MAC >still doesn't look like it's spelled correctly but I cannot recall >the correct spelling so you'll just have to live with that. You have missed the point again. First, no version of Unix ran on the KL, and I am specifically wondering about it, not -11s or Vaxen. Also, I'm not concerned with the spelling of the source module. Yes, Ethernet support could, in theory, have been sold separately or simply included in an update and/or new version. But why? From DEC's POV, the only networking product that could use it was DECnet. Then I remembered the DECserver product line (I.e., Ethernet-based terminal servers. I cannot remember if there were also Ethernet print servers.) So maybe the decision was made to include Ethernet support as a "standard" feature, because even if a customer didn't have DECnet, they could be sold DECservers. The original question is, "was Ethernet support included only with DECnet, or was it made part of the standard feature set of TOPS-10 & TOPS-20?" At the moment I can't remember.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-09 12:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000534D787F182F1@aca40f3b.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164838 |
Questor wrote: > On 8 Jun 2016 12:09:48 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Questor wrote: >>> On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:06 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Questor wrote: >>>>> On 4 Jun 2016 13:44:57 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>Questor wrote: >>>>>>> On 02 Jun 2016 19:19:35 -0400, Rich Alderson >>>><news@alderson.users.panix.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>Since I have never worked at a DECnet-compatible site in my nearly 40 >>>>years >>>>>>>>with the PDP-10 architecture, I may be forgiven for not knowing that >>>>>>Bliss-36 >>>>>>>>was used in that arena. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No one is faulting you for that. How did you avoid DECnet for forty >>>>years? >>>>>>> Were all the systems ARPAnet only, no networking whatsoever, or >>homebrew? >>>>>>> I don't know if PDP-10s had ethernet support absent the DECnet product. >>>>>>> >>>>>>Look on the monitor distribution tape for the file ETHNET.MAC (spelling >>>>>>may be wrong). That is the monitor module which supported the hardware. >>>>>>ETHNET doesn't sound correct. >>>>> >>>>> The question is whether ethernet support was included in the monitor if >>the >>>>> customer didn't also have DECnet. My first thought was no, but then I >>>>> remembered that DEC was trying to sell things like LAT boxes, so maybe it >>>>was. >>>>> >>>>WEll, that's what the DECnet sales and product line people would have >>liked. >>>>Of course, those types would have wanted each file on a separate tape >>>>and charge $$$ for it. That's when DEC no longer existed and every >>>>non-development middle manager was tryng to go into "business" for >>>>him/herself by controlling a product. >>> >>> If you don't know the answer, you should just say so, instead of blaming >>> salespeople for doing their job. >> >>I thought I did answer your qeustion. Ethernet was used by the Unixes >>within DEC and they did not implement DECnet. Ethernet was a device >>and the module to run that device was in the monitor. ETHNET.MAC >>still doesn't look like it's spelled correctly but I cannot recall >>the correct spelling so you'll just have to live with that. > > You have missed the point again. > > First, no version of Unix ran on the KL, and I am specifically wondering about > it, not -11s or Vaxen. Also, I'm not concerned with the spelling of the source > module. > > Yes, Ethernet support could, in theory, have been sold separately or simply > included in an update and/or new version. But why? From DEC's POV, the only > networking product that could use it was DECnet. Not with unix. Do you think that the unix developers didn't use the ethernet device? > Then I remembered the > DECserver product line (I.e., Ethernet-based terminal servers. I cannot > remember if there were also Ethernet print servers.) So maybe the decision was > made to include Ethernet support as a "standard" feature, because even if a > customer didn't have DECnet, they could be sold DECservers. If you want to know those kinds of specifics, go find the SPD for the product. > > The original question is, "was Ethernet support included only with DECnet, or > was it made part of the standard feature set of TOPS-10 & TOPS-20?" At the > moment I can't remember. I told you to go find it on the tape. If it's on the Monitor Distribution Tape, then everyone got it and it was a standard feature. If it was on the DECnet tape, then only those who bought DECnet would get the monitor module. Loook at the first file of the DECNET tape which should be a directory of that tape. If there is a monitor save set, then the ethernet was not generally supported. The code for the RA60/80s was put on the Monitor distribution tape. I don't see any reason the ethernet code shouldn't have been put on the monitor distribution tape. I didn't design the monitor packaging. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-17 03:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <57637058.5006188@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164844 |
On 9 Jun 2016 12:25:25 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 8 Jun 2016 12:09:48 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Questor wrote: >>>> On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:06 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Questor wrote: >>>>>> On 4 Jun 2016 13:44:57 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>Questor wrote: >>>>>>>> On 02 Jun 2016 19:19:35 -0400, Rich Alderson >>>>><news@alderson.users.panix.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>Since I have never worked at a DECnet-compatible site in my nearly 40 >>>>>years >>>>>>>>>with the PDP-10 architecture, I may be forgiven for not knowing that >>>>>>>Bliss-36 >>>>>>>>>was used in that arena. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No one is faulting you for that. How did you avoid DECnet for forty >>>>>years? >>>>>>>> Were all the systems ARPAnet only, no networking whatsoever, or >>>homebrew? >>>>>>>> I don't know if PDP-10s had ethernet support absent the DECnet >product. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Look on the monitor distribution tape for the file ETHNET.MAC (spelling >>>>>>>may be wrong). That is the monitor module which supported the hardware. >>>>>>>ETHNET doesn't sound correct. >>>>>> >>>>>> The question is whether ethernet support was included in the monitor if >>>the >>>>>> customer didn't also have DECnet. My first thought was no, but then I >>>>>> remembered that DEC was trying to sell things like LAT boxes, so maybe >it >>>>>was. >>>>>> >>>>>WEll, that's what the DECnet sales and product line people would have >>>liked. >>>>>Of course, those types would have wanted each file on a separate tape >>>>>and charge $$$ for it. That's when DEC no longer existed and every >>>>>non-development middle manager was tryng to go into "business" for >>>>>him/herself by controlling a product. >>>> >>>> If you don't know the answer, you should just say so, instead of blaming >>>> salespeople for doing their job. >>> >>>I thought I did answer your qeustion. Ethernet was used by the Unixes >>>within DEC and they did not implement DECnet. Ethernet was a device >>>and the module to run that device was in the monitor. ETHNET.MAC >>>still doesn't look like it's spelled correctly but I cannot recall >>>the correct spelling so you'll just have to live with that. >> >> You have missed the point again. >> >> First, no version of Unix ran on the KL, and I am specifically wondering >about >> it, not -11s or Vaxen. Also, I'm not concerned with the spelling of the >source >> module. >> >> Yes, Ethernet support could, in theory, have been sold separately or simply >> included in an update and/or new version. But why? From DEC's POV, the >only >> networking product that could use it was DECnet. > >Not with unix. Do you think that the unix developers didn't use the >ethernet device? Again, I am talking about the KL. From DEC's POV, the only networking product *for the KL* that could use Ethernet was DECnet. >> Then I remembered the >> DECserver product line (I.e., Ethernet-based terminal servers. I cannot >> remember if there were also Ethernet print servers.) So maybe the decision >was >> made to include Ethernet support as a "standard" feature, because even if a >> customer didn't have DECnet, they could be sold DECservers. > >If you want to know those kinds of specifics, go find the SPD for the >product. While people have saved many surprising things from that time, and subsequently made them available on the Internet, very few SPDs seem to have survived. >> The original question is, "was Ethernet support included only with DECnet, >or >> was it made part of the standard feature set of TOPS-10 & TOPS-20?" At the >> moment I can't remember. > >I told you to go find it on the tape. If it's on the Monitor Distribution >Tape, then everyone got it and it was a standard feature. If it >was on the DECnet tape, then only those who bought DECnet would get >the monitor module.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-17 16:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mddmvmj8rny.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #165370 |
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
> Again, I am talking about the KL. From DEC's POV, the only networking product
> *for the KL* that could use Ethernet was DECnet.
Umm, not true. By the time the NIA20 came out, it supported TCP/IP as well as
(OK, make that "in addition to") DECnet.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-09 17:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mddmvmuave6.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #164457 |
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
> On 02 Jun 2016 19:19:35 -0400, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
> wrote:
>> Since I have never worked at a DECnet-compatible site in my nearly 40 years
>> with the PDP-10 architecture, I may be forgiven for not knowing that Bliss-36
>> was used in that arena.
> No one is faulting you for that. How did you avoid DECnet for forty years?
> Were all the systems ARPAnet only, no networking whatsoever, or homebrew?
> I don't know if PDP-10s had ethernet support absent the DECnet product.
I first met the PDP-10 architecture on a 2040 at UChicago in 1977; it was soon
upgraded to a 2050, and eventually to a 2060. In the mean time, a second 2060
was purchased, to move administrative functions off the academic machine.
None too cleverly, these were named "Chip" (admin) and "Dale" (academic) by a
systems programmer who learned the names of the machines on which courses were
taught at Marlboro.
These machines were not networked; file and mail interchange was done by a
dual-port disk hack (which was hacked by students at least once), by which time
I was working full time as a systems programmer on the SVS system (Amdahl) and
the 20s. I put in a new release of the MM mail program to add a Phonenet-type
interface, which introduced me to the late Mark Crispin, and eventually to my
taking a job at Stanford's academic computing facility, LOTS.
Besides being an ARPANET site, Stanford had a campus network as the result of
midnight steam tunnel forays by Ralph G., Len B. (a DEC alum), and Sandy L.,
dragging 3Mb/s Ethernet coax around the campus to all of the PDP-10 systems (10
TOPS-20 sites, the SAIL multiprocessor, and a TENEX 1077). Len designed an
Ethernet interface for the MASSBUS called a MEIS, detail design done by George
S. who worked for him. This eventually was the first product from a company
which Len and Sandy started called 'cisco Systems (that's an apostrophe, not a
quote mark).
I later went to work for Cisco, then came to the Seattle area to work for Len
at XKL.
As you might imagine given the history, I never did work in a DECnet environment.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005345F01067A06@aca40481.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164352 |
Peter Flass wrote: > Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote: >> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:55 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> Rich Alderson wrote: >>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>>> >>>>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the original >>>>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>> was >>>>> used in-house without significant problems. The CMU version was probably >>>>> more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included with >>>>> either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it >>> wasn't >>>>> used much outside of DEC. >>>> >>>> I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. >>> >>> All of DECnet outside the monitor and Autopatch were BLISS36. There are >>> others but I can't recall them right now. >> >> The only part of DECnet outside of the monitor written in BLISS36 was NMLT10/20. >> NETGEN, NFT/FAL, and SETHOST were all written in MACRO. >> >> >>>> So what was Bliss-36 used for? >>> >>> All new development using BLISS on PDP-10s would have to use BLISS-36. >>> I'm trying to remember the year it showed up on the development >>> systems. The MCB was a big BLISS36 project. >> >> The MCB platform, as well as the products built on it, were written in PDP11 >> assembly and BLISS16, not BLISS36. >> >> > > My question is, why was there both BLISS-10 and BLISS-36? What were the > major differences? We were not allowed to change BLISS-10, fix it's bugs and other nefarious "ducttaping thumbs to opposite walls" restrictions. I never got told the whole story but it was a mess. To avoid these problems, VAX product line wrote a BLISS compiler with the product goal of allowing the language to be used across all hardware platforms. /BAH
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005345EF4D0CDDB@aca40481.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164337 |
Questor wrote: > On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:55 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Rich Alderson wrote: >>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>> >>>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the original >>>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>was >>>> used in-house without significant problems. The CMU version was probably >>>> more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included with >>>> either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it >>wasn't >>>> used much outside of DEC. >>> >>> I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. >> >>All of DECnet outside the monitor and Autopatch were BLISS36. There are >>others but I can't recall them right now. > > The only part of DECnet outside of the monitor written in BLISS36 was NMLT10/20. > NETGEN, NFT/FAL, and SETHOST were all written in MACRO. > > >>> So what was Bliss-36 used for? >> >>All new development using BLISS on PDP-10s would have to use BLISS-36. >>I'm trying to remember the year it showed up on the development >>systems. The MCB was a big BLISS36 project. > > The MCB platform, as well as the products built on it, were written in PDP11 > assembly and BLISS16, not BLISS36. And the -11 DECnet layers had to talk to the -10 DECnet layers which had to be written using BLISS-36, not BLISS-16. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5753d4cc.26115652@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164399 |
On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:07 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:55 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Rich Alderson wrote: >>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>>>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the >original >>>>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>>was >>>>> used in-house without significant problems. The CMU version was probably >>>>> more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included with >>>>> either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it >>>wasn't >>>>> used much outside of DEC. >>>> >>>> I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. >>> >>>All of DECnet outside the monitor and Autopatch were BLISS36. There are >>>others but I can't recall them right now. >> >> The only part of DECnet outside of the monitor written in BLISS36 was >NMLT10/20. >> NETGEN, NFT/FAL, and SETHOST were all written in MACRO. >> >> >>>> So what was Bliss-36 used for? >>> >>>All new development using BLISS on PDP-10s would have to use BLISS-36. >>>I'm trying to remember the year it showed up on the development >>>systems. The MCB was a big BLISS36 project. >> >> The MCB platform, as well as the products built on it, were written in PDP11 >> assembly and BLISS16, not BLISS36. > >And the -11 DECnet layers had to talk to the -10 DECnet layers which had to >be written using BLISS-36, not BLISS-16. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of the code for the DECnet "layers" on the -10 side, for both TOPS-10 and TOPS-20, was ever written in BLISS-36. Nor do most of the respective DECnet layers of two network nodes communicate directly with each other.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00053487E605D585@aca41e70.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164539 |
Questor wrote: > On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:07 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Questor wrote: >>> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:55 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>Rich Alderson wrote: >>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>>>>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the >>original >>>>>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>>>was >>>>>> used in-house without significant problems. The CMU version was probably >>>>>> more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included with >>>>>> either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it >>>>wasn't >>>>>> used much outside of DEC. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. >>>> >>>>All of DECnet outside the monitor and Autopatch were BLISS36. There are >>>>others but I can't recall them right now. >>> >>> The only part of DECnet outside of the monitor written in BLISS36 was >>NMLT10/20. >>> NETGEN, NFT/FAL, and SETHOST were all written in MACRO. >>> >>> >>>>> So what was Bliss-36 used for? >>>> >>>>All new development using BLISS on PDP-10s would have to use BLISS-36. >>>>I'm trying to remember the year it showed up on the development >>>>systems. The MCB was a big BLISS36 project. >>> >>> The MCB platform, as well as the products built on it, were written in PDP11 >>> assembly and BLISS16, not BLISS36. >> >>And the -11 DECnet layers had to talk to the -10 DECnet layers which had to >>be written using BLISS-36, not BLISS-16. > > You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. > > None of the code for the DECnet "layers" on the -10 side, for both TOPS-10 > and TOPS-20, was ever written in BLISS-36. Nor do most of the respective DECnet > layers of two network nodes communicate directly with each other. NML was. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 20:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <575734e1.21158594@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164576 |
\On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:17 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:07 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Questor wrote: >>>> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:55 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>Rich Alderson wrote: >>>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes: >>>>>>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the >>>original >>>>>>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, but the DEC re-write >(BLISS36) >>>>>was >>>>>>> used in-house without significant problems. The CMU version was >probably >>>>>>> more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included >with >>>>>>> either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it >>>>>wasn't >>>>>>> used much outside of DEC. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. >>>>> >>>>>All of DECnet outside the monitor and Autopatch were BLISS36. There are >>>>>others but I can't recall them right now. >>>> >>>> The only part of DECnet outside of the monitor written in BLISS36 was >>>NMLT10/20. >>>> NETGEN, NFT/FAL, and SETHOST were all written in MACRO. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> So what was Bliss-36 used for? >>>>> >>>>>All new development using BLISS on PDP-10s would have to use BLISS-36. >>>>>I'm trying to remember the year it showed up on the development >>>>>systems. The MCB was a big BLISS36 project. >>>> >>>> The MCB platform, as well as the products built on it, were written in >PDP11 >>>> assembly and BLISS16, not BLISS36. >>> >>>And the -11 DECnet layers had to talk to the -10 DECnet layers which had to >>>be written using BLISS-36, not BLISS-16. >> >> You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. >> >> None of the code for the DECnet "layers" on the -10 side, for both TOPS-10 >> and TOPS-20, was ever written in BLISS-36. Nor do most of the respective >DECnet >> layers of two network nodes communicate directly with each other. > >NML was. Network management is not one of the layers in the OSI network model used by DECnet. Schematic diagrams of DECnet show NML as a rectangle adjacent to all the other layers, although some of the layers do not have any NML-controlled functions. NML on the -10 was written in BLISS36 because of corporate edict, not any technical mandate. In theory, NML could have been written in COBOL.
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <575073a9.11413291@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164186 |
On 31 May 2016 16:13:31 -0400, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: >I'm not aware of any product for the 36-bit line written in Bliss-36. The >FORTRAN compiler was written in Bliss-10, which was shipped on the installation >tape. (Why anyone assumed that customers might make mods to the FORTRAN >compiler has always escaped me.) When the hardware was much more expensive than the software, including sources was probably not seen as a significant revenue loss and perhaps even as a bonus for customers. (Kind of like when I buy some doughnuts at the local shop, and they throw in a couple of doughnut holes too.) That practice stopped by the mid-1970s, and eventually just getting a source listing on fiche cost serious money. Having sources means being able to apply published bug fixes immediately instead of waiting for an update, or perhaps even doing them yourself. >So what was Bliss-36 used for? I'm relying totally on my memory here, so be forewarned... (has it really been that many years? There must be some mistake...) Little LCG software was written in BLISS because, as I mentioned, the product line was already mature when the BLISS decision was made. Also, BLISS was strongly resisted, particularly among the TOPS-10 dinosaurs. I can only remember some product pieces that were written in BLISS36 (see my caveat). NMLT10/20, and parts of the tool chain for producing images for the MCB-based communication front-ends (specifically, TKB36 and VNP36). Customers never got the sources for any of these, and so they didn't need BLISS36. That should be reflected in the SPDs (Software Product Description). For legal reasons, those spelled out very clearly what was included in the product and what, if any, other software was required in order to build it. I'm reasonably certain customers didn't need any BLISS, and the PDP-11 cross-assembler needed to compile the data structures (MACY11) was included with those products.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000534378D19FB86@aca40da7.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164168 |
Questor wrote: > On Sat, 28 May 2016 17:53:46 +0200, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> > wrote: >>I realise that DEC was not very good at compilers. They used some >>weird and pretty buggy languages (like Bliss) and were stuck in >>assembly (but a very good one). > > What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the original > version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. > but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) > was used in-house without significant problems. <grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. > The CMU version was probably > more widely distributed (DECUS?). I don't think BLISS was included with either > TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, and most customers didn't purchase it so it wasn't used > much outside of DEC. Both renditions of BLISSes were shipped by DEC. > > Not sure what being "stuck in assembly" is supposed to mean. Most everything > was written in MACRO-10/20 for good reason, and there would have been little > point to re-writing all of it in any HLL. Well, that's what the edict mandated. We were even supposed to write TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 patches in BLISS and then apply them to the EXE. > > > >> A pl/1 subset on a fast compiler >>with some language features included to support the OS task at >>hand would have been very beneficial. This may have made a port >>to other platforms feasible. > > What most people are missing here is that BLISS was supposed to be a > cross-platform language. The number of times that produced successful results > can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand, but forty years later I > don't see where a lot of progress has been made. Cross-platform feature would affect applications, not monitors. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <575073b9.11429394@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164244 |
On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On Sat, 28 May 2016 17:53:46 +0200, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> >> wrote: >>>I realise that DEC was not very good at compilers. They used some >>>weird and pretty buggy languages (like Bliss) and were stuck in >>>assembly (but a very good one). >> >> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the original >> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, > >It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. > >> but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >> was used in-house without significant problems. > ><grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. Why do you say that? >Both renditions of BLISSes were shipped by DEC. I'm reasonably certain that BLISS36 was not included with either TOPS-10 or TOPS-20; it was sold separately. Was BLISS10 available through DECUS, since it came from CMU? Or did DEC's deal preclude that?
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 19:21 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mddmvn3jhxa.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #164338 |
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Both renditions of BLISSes were shipped by DEC.
> I'm reasonably certain that BLISS36 was not included with either TOPS-10 or
> TOPS-20; it was sold separately. Was BLISS10 available through DECUS, since
> it came from CMU? Or did DEC's deal preclude that?
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, BLIS10.EXE was included on the Fortran
installation tape.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005345EEB8E3670@aca40481.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164338 |
Questor wrote: > On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Questor wrote: >>> On Sat, 28 May 2016 17:53:46 +0200, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> >>> wrote: >>>>I realise that DEC was not very good at compilers. They used some >>>>weird and pretty buggy languages (like Bliss) and were stuck in >>>>assembly (but a very good one). >>> >>> What's so weird about BLISS? As for buggy, if memory serves, the original >>> version from CMU (BLISS-10) had some bugs, >> >>It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. >> >>> but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>> was used in-house without significant problems. >> >><grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. > > Why do you say that? Experience. > > >>Both renditions of BLISSes were shipped by DEC. > > I'm reasonably certain that BLISS36 was not included with either TOPS-10 or > TOPS-20; it was sold separately. I am cedrtain that BLISS36 was included on source tapes which contained sources written in BLISS-36. I did the fucking packaging. > Was BLISS10 available through DECUS, No. >since it > came from CMU? Or did DEC's deal preclude that? CMU's deal with DEC precluded that. Note the differnce of phrasing. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 07:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5753d4d0.26118846@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164407 |
On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:16 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Questor wrote: >>> >>>It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. >>> >>>> but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>>> was used in-house without significant problems. >>> >>><grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. >> >> Why do you say that? > >Experience. No, why did you say I didn't see the problems? >I am cedrtain that BLISS36 was included on source tapes which contained >sources written in BLISS-36. I did the fucking packaging. Except that DEC didn't release the sources for any products written in BLISS36.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00053487E38AC856@aca41e70.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164540 |
Questor wrote: > On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:16 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Questor wrote: >>> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>Questor wrote: >>>> >>>>It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. >>>> >>>>> but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>>>> was used in-house without significant problems. >>>> >>>><grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. >>> >>> Why do you say that? >> >>Experience. > > No, why did you say I didn't see the problems? Because we dealt with our dirty laundry in-house and not in front of the customers. > > >>I am cedrtain that BLISS36 was included on source tapes which contained >>sources written in BLISS-36. I did the fucking packaging. > > Except that DEC didn't release the sources for any products written in BLISS36. You are wrong. Cusotmers could buy source tapes. We still had to package source tapes for SDC submission even if a customer never got it. /BAH
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 20:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <575734f9.21182298@nntp2.rawbw.com> |
| In reply to | #164584 |
On 5 Jun 2016 14:31:21 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Questor wrote: >> On 3 Jun 2016 13:16:16 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Questor wrote: >>>> On 1 Jun 2016 13:51:58 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>Questor wrote: >>>>>It had a lot of bugs which were unfixable. >>>>> >>>>>> but the DEC re-write (BLISS36) >>>>>> was used in-house without significant problems. >>>>> >>>>><grin> You weren't in-hoouse so you didn't see the problems. >>>> >>>> Why do you say that? >>> >>>Experience. >> >> No, why did you say I didn't see the problems? > >Because we dealt with our dirty laundry in-house and not in front >of the customers. You still don't get it, do you? You just can't see past your own ego. Why wouldn't I see the problems? >>>I am cedrtain that BLISS36 was included on source tapes which contained >>>sources written in BLISS-36. I did the fucking packaging. >> >> Except that DEC didn't release the sources for any products written in >BLISS36. > >You are wrong. Cusotmers could buy source tapes. There was never an option for customers to buy all the sources for the DECnet product. They got the sources for the -10 based utilities written in MACRO (NFT/FAL, SETHOST, and NETGEN). DECnet-10 customers got the necessary additional monitor sources. DECnet-20 customers got a different pre-built monitor with DECnet support included. The source for anything written in BLISS for DECnet was never available to customers. >We still had to package source tapes for SDC submission even >if a customer never got it. No, and there is no SDC part number for a complete DECnet source tape.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <111161356.486144798.989229.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #164083 |
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > Morten Reistad wrote: >> In article <PM000533D1A4322DD8@aca40f3f.ipt.aol.com>, >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> Rich Alderson wrote: >>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes: >>>> >>>>> Pete, of course is the PL/I expert on this forum. I'd listen to his >>>>> opinion rather than the ignorant comment from the know-nothing poster >>>>> you replied to. >>>> >>>> Excuse me, turkey, that "know-nothing poster" is a friend of mine. She >>> knows >>>> a great deal; she simply has certain biases. >>>> >>> >>> Thanks, Rich. It's better to just ignore him because he doesn't know >>> what he doesn't know in this matter :-). >>> >>> I don't have anything against PL/I. I was commenting on the >>> availability of the language at that time. Most self-respecting >>> anyboies wouldn't have unlimited access to the hard/software. >>> >>> I did object to the use of the word "girls" because "boys" >>> would never be used. If I were writing the blurb, I'd probably >>> use the word guys which was generic at the time. >>> >>> /BAH >> >> >> You are showing your DEC background. > > I've never claimed differently. > >> The mainframes generally all >> had pl/1, or pl/g (a subset) if not. Prime had pl/1 or pl/g compilers, >> no less than three of them. (PLP, SPL and full PL/1). > > In the 1960s? > >> >> It is pretty close to the language tops20 should have been written >> in. > > There would not have been a TOPS-20 if it had been written in PL/I. > PDP-10 users were used to having compilations and assemblies getting > done quickly. Doing any BLISS compilations took all the resources > of a -20. > >> >> And then there is of course multics. > > Would it have passed the pre-development security examination? > With the discussions about potential problems using the language, > I wouldn't think so. > The problems are apparently not of a type to affect security, unlike C's handling of strings. -- Pete
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