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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #219533 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400 |
| Last post | 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 156 — 29 participants |
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Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-01 21:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 19:27 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-02 05:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-01 17:38 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-11-02 00:21 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 19:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-11-02 10:16 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 09:51 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:37 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:13 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:22 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:22 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 12:05 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 08:20 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:02 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:25 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 19:10 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 21:43 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:53 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:38 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:30 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-05 18:23 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:37 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Churchillian version John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-05 20:02 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:14 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:47 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:17 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 21:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 11:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 15:14 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 16:45 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-11-05 22:43 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 20:04 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 23:52 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 05:13 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:16 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-n7j-this> - 2021-11-04 07:17 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:47 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 20:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m46-this> - 2021-11-05 07:08 -0800
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-07 15:43 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 16:17 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 22:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-11-04 19:21 -0300
Re: Who Knew ? Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-11-05 05:46 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-11-05 04:01 -0300
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:29 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:12 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:16 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-04 17:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 13:04 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:58 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:47 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:07 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:42 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:53 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:33 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 10:06 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-11-06 15:38 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:39 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:33 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 12:17 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 14:45 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 15:28 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 18:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:54 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:07 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-06 08:26 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:05 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:04 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 18:32 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-06 19:25 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-07 11:20 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:55 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:15 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-07 23:44 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 15:39 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-08 17:06 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom (Lawrence Statton (NK1G)) - 2021-11-09 19:06 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 09:51 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-08 10:52 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 19:14 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-08 12:09 -1000
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:38 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-09 15:30 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 14:57 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-11 15:03 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-11 17:02 -1000
Re: Alternate Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-08 22:22 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 18:07 -0500
Re: military options, was Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-09 01:58 +0000
Re: military options, was Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 23:17 -0500
Re: military options, was Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-09 10:02 -0500
Re: military options, was Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:51 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:35 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 09:09 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-11-14 18:45 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 12:39 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-15 00:43 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-16 08:58 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-16 16:57 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 10:54 -0600
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-17 14:16 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 14:32 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-11-05 22:17 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:46 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
Page 2 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 12:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <f1paogp0pgroehd4uv2hfeuh036iagu8ga@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219581 |
On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 15:22:10 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote: >On 11/4/21 11:51 AM, Quadibloc wrote: > >[...] > >> Orwell was reacting, perhaps, to McCarthyism, by warning of the danger >> that a long-continued Cold War could cause the West to become like the >> Soviet Union. > >YGBSM. > >McCarthy was right. You are witnessing and living through a communist >color revolution in the United States and the west in general. Your >denial of the obvious with this anti-McCarthy tripe is just gross. McCarthy went after the wrong people. And the big thing now in the US is a surgence of Facism.
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 08:20 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <87ee7u1n2v.fsf@localhost> |
| In reply to | #219618 |
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> writes: > McCarthy went after the wrong people. And the big thing now in the US > is a surgence of Facism. or resurgence ... Social democracy ... countermeasure to capitalism and fascism, example, On War https://www.amazon.com/War-beautifully-reproduced-illustrated-introduction-ebook/dp/B00G3DFLY8/ loc394-95: As long as the Socialists only threatened capital they were not seriously interfered with, for the Government knew quite well that the undisputed sway of the employer was not for the ultimate good of the State. the government needed general population standard of living sufficient that soldiers were willing to fight to preserve their way of life. Capitalists tendency was to reduce worker standard of living to the lowest possible ... below what the government needed for soldier motivation ... and therefor needed socialists as counterbalance to the capitalists in raising the general population standard of living. Saw this fight out in the 30s, American Fascists opposing all of FDR's "new deals" The Coming of American Fascism, 1920-1940 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/172004 The truth, then, is that Long and Coughlin, together with the influential Communist Party and other leftist organizations, helped save the New Deal from becoming genuinely fascist, from devolving into the dictatorial rule of big business. The pressures towards fascism remained, as reactionary sectors of business began to have significant victories against the Second New Deal starting in the late 1930s. But the genuine power that organized labor had achieved by then kept the U.S. from sliding into all-out fascism (in the Marxist sense) in the following decades. ... snip ... "Coming of America Fascism" shows socialists countered the "New Deal" becoming fascist ... which had been the objective of the capitalists ... thwarting the American Fascists contributed to forcing them further into the Nazi/fascist camp. When The Bankers Plotted To Overthrow FDR https://www.npr.org/2012/02/12/145472726/when-the-bankers-plotted-to-overthrow-fdr The Plots Against the President: FDR, A Nation in Crisis, and the Rise of the American Right https://www.amazon.com/Plots-Against-President-Nation-American-ebook/dp/B07N4BLR77/ Wealthy bankers and businessmen plotted to overthrow FDR. A retired general foiled it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/13/fdr-roosevelt-coup-business-plot/ Wall Street's Plot to Seize the White House: Facing the Corporate Roots of American Fascism http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html Gen. Butler Bares 'Fascist Plot' To Seize Government by Force https://www.nytimes.com/1934/11/21/archives/gen-butler-bares-fascist-plot-to-seize-government-by-force-says.html The plot to overthrow FDR: How the New Deal sent conservatives into a rage. The right's temper tantrums over Obamacare are nothing compared to what Roosevelt had to deal with https://www.salon.com/2014/04/18/the_plot_to_overthrow_fdr_how_the_new_deal_sent_conservatives_into_a_rage_partner/ Foiled Coup: The Connecticut Plot to Overthrow Franklin Roosevelt https://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/justice/foiled-coup-the-connecticut-plot-to-overthrow-franklin-roosevelt Smedley Butler, retired USMC major general and two-time Medal of Honor Recipient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler ... wrote "War Is A Racket" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket ... and was asked to lead an american fascist military take-over of the gov. and blew the whistle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot John Foster Dulles played major role rebuilding Germany economy, industry, military from the 20s up through the early 40s https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret-ebook/dp/B00BY5QX1K/ loc865-68: In mid-1931 a consortium of American banks, eager to safeguard their investments in Germany, persuaded the German government to accept a loan of nearly $500 million to prevent default. Foster was their agent. His ties to the German government tightened after Hitler took power at the beginning of 1933 and appointed Foster's old friend Hjalmar Schacht as minister of economics. loc905-7: Foster was stunned by his brother's suggestion that Sullivan & Cromwell quit Germany. Many of his clients with interests there, including not just banks but corporations like Standard Oil and General Electric, wished Sullivan & Cromwell to remain active regardless of political conditions. loc938-40: At least one other senior partner at Sullivan & Cromwell, Eustace Seligman, was equally disturbed. In October 1939, six weeks after the Nazi invasion of Poland, he took the extraordinary step of sending Foster a formal memorandum disavowing what his old friend was saying about Nazism ... snip ... from the law of unintended consequences, when US 1943 Strategic Bombing program needed targets in Germany, they got plans and coordinates from wallstreet. American Nazis Rally in New York City. On February 20, 1939, the pro-Nazi German American Bund drew more than 20,000 people to a rally in Madison Square Garden. https://newspapers.ushmm.org/events/american-nazis-rally-in-new-york-city June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the NYC Waldorf-Astoria with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to hear how to do business with the Nazis https://www.amazon.com/Man-Called-Intrepid-Incredible-Narrative-ebook/dp/B00V9QVE5O/ loc1925-29: One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was Torkild Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British blockade. The company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's instigation, about violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set up an elaborate scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through neutral ports in South America. ... snip ... Later somewhat replay of the 1940 celebration, there was conference of 5000 industrialists and corporations from across the US at the Waldorf-Astoria, and in part because they had gotten such a bad reputation for the depression and supporting Nazis, as part of attempting to refurbish their horribly corrupt and venal image, they approved a major propaganda campaign to equate Capitalism with Christianity. https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/dp/B00PWX7R56/ part of the result by the early 50s was adding "under god" to the pledge of allegiance. slightly cleaned up version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance False Profits: Reviving the Corporation's Public Purpose https://www.uclalawreview.org/false-profits-reviving-the-corporations-public-purpose/ I Origins of the Corporation. Although the corporate structure dates back as far as the Greek and Roman Empires, characteristics of the modern corporation began to appear in England in the mid-thirteenth century.[4] "Merchant guilds" were loose organizations of merchants "governed through a council somewhat akin to a board of directors," and organized to "achieve a common purpose"[5] that was public in nature. Indeed, merchant guilds registered with the state and were approved only if they were "serving national purposes."[6] ... snip ... ... but nearly from the founding of the country there has been pressure to allow corporations to operate in self-interest. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 10:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4ee39e02-a0a4-4159-91e4-75b71700a9aen@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #219553 |
On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 3:34:39 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Societies seem to need a slave class. _Brave New World_ described this > in some detail. We thought that machines would take the place of this > class - but instead have turned out to be agents of the ruling class. And here I thought that the slave class subsidizing the people of Western industrialized nations such as the one I live in as well as your own was the labor force of the PRC. Yet, the time when Canada, the United States, and much of the world was happiest was when there was no 'slave class'; in the early 'sixties, we made our own TV sets and radios, out of vacuum tubes even, and so there were decent jobs for everyone. Still, despite the pandemic, we're having the Great Resignation - apparently the world is currently in what will become known as the YouTube Bubble. Having only recently - some two million years ago - evolved from the chimpanzee, it might not be too outrageous to suppose that a significant proportion of the human race is not yet well-developed enough for civilized life. (ObSF: _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ by H. G. Wells.) But we don't have as much clear evidence of that as we might, otherwise, because we're neglecting the education system - presumably out of a perceived need for a slave class - so that we have many people whose inability to function as responsible citizens was not genetically fore-ordained. John Savard
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 17:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vJUgJ.21800$bo.3833@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #219567 |
On 2021-11-04, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: > On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 3:34:39 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Societies seem to need a slave class. _Brave New World_ described this >> in some detail. We thought that machines would take the place of this >> class - but instead have turned out to be agents of the ruling class. > > And here I thought that the slave class subsidizing the people of Western > industrialized nations such as the one I live in as well as your own was the > labor force of the PRC. That's a good part of it. But let's face it, it's necessary (not to mention fun) to have lots of slaves. > Yet, the time when Canada, the United States, and much of the world was > happiest was when there was no 'slave class'; in the early 'sixties, we made > our own TV sets and radios, out of vacuum tubes even, and so there were > decent jobs for everyone. > > Still, despite the pandemic, we're having the Great Resignation - apparently > the world is currently in what will become known as the YouTube Bubble. > > Having only recently - some two million years ago - evolved from the > chimpanzee, it might not be too outrageous to suppose that a significant > proportion of the human race is not yet well-developed enough for civilized > life. (ObSF: _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ by H. G. Wells.) But we don't > have as much clear evidence of that as we might, otherwise, because we're > neglecting the education system - presumably out of a perceived need for > a slave class - so that we have many people whose inability to function as > responsible citizens was not genetically fore-ordained. And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility) is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| From | 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 15:25 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <sm1fg9$vnp$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #219572 |
On 11/4/21 12:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility)
> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
"Democracy is government ...
by the people ...
of the people ...
for the people ...
but the people are retarded." --Osho
--
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓── ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃── │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─ │ https://bitmessage.org │ │ open │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─ └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 19:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <91q8ogtsfimqs54vtjg7nlcel0q1q998ah@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219572 |
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >On 2021-11-04, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: > >> On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 3:34:39 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Societies seem to need a slave class. _Brave New World_ described this >>> in some detail. We thought that machines would take the place of this >>> class - but instead have turned out to be agents of the ruling class. >> >> And here I thought that the slave class subsidizing the people of Western >> industrialized nations such as the one I live in as well as your own was the >> labor force of the PRC. > >That's a good part of it. But let's face it, it's necessary (not to >mention fun) to have lots of slaves. > >> Yet, the time when Canada, the United States, and much of the world was >> happiest was when there was no 'slave class'; in the early 'sixties, we made >> our own TV sets and radios, out of vacuum tubes even, and so there were >> decent jobs for everyone. >> >> Still, despite the pandemic, we're having the Great Resignation - apparently >> the world is currently in what will become known as the YouTube Bubble. >> >> Having only recently - some two million years ago - evolved from the >> chimpanzee, it might not be too outrageous to suppose that a significant >> proportion of the human race is not yet well-developed enough for civilized >> life. (ObSF: _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ by H. G. Wells.) But we don't >> have as much clear evidence of that as we might, otherwise, because we're >> neglecting the education system - presumably out of a perceived need for >> a slave class - so that we have many people whose inability to function as >> responsible citizens was not genetically fore-ordained. > >And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility) >is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy. Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see more and more why it's a bad idea.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <t%ZgJ.10014$zF3.2332@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #219586 |
On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility)
>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
>
> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
> more and more why it's a bad idea.
Democracy is the worst form of government,
except for all the others.
-- Winston Churchill
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-04 21:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4139og56uric5jtuflb6ao48josssrj2ac@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219591 |
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs >> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >> >>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility) >>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy. >> >> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see >> more and more why it's a bad idea. > > Democracy is the worst form of government, > except for all the others. > -- Winston Churchill The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much experience of democracy.
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| From | Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 08:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <iuk9o6Fqi9U6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #219594 |
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 21:43:58 -0400, J. Clarke wrote: > On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs > <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > >>On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs >>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of >>>> responsibility) >>>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy. >>> >>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see >>> more and more why it's a bad idea. >> >> Democracy is the worst form of government, >> except for all the others. >> -- Winston Churchill > > The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses > is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much > experience of democracy. A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference. -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 11:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sm353q$ogn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #219603 |
On 05/11/2021 08:53, Bob Eager wrote: > > A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference. A cpmpletely meaningless term, for where a country has a monarchy, then it constitutes part of that country. The dead hand of the monarchy in Brit weaves its way into all corners, where in each sub division there is a Lord Lieutenant, a direct and undemocratic representative of the monarchy one of whose functions is to appoint the magistracy.
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 13:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <igqaog58b18ivkc2l0tp1e5ls78g1tcn0t@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219603 |
On 5 Nov 2021 08:53:26 GMT, Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote: >On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 21:43:58 -0400, J. Clarke wrote: > >> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs >> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >> >>>On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs >>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of >>>>> responsibility) >>>>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy. >>>> >>>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see >>>> more and more why it's a bad idea. >>> >>> Democracy is the worst form of government, >>> except for all the others. >>> -- Winston Churchill >> >> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses >> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much >> experience of democracy. > >A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference. Not one that makes it a democracy.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 18:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sm3srd$2ilp$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #219594 |
According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>: >> Democracy is the worst form of government, >> except for all the others. >> -- Winston Churchill > >The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses >is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much >experience of democracy. His mother was American. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 19:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnsob1vl.c02.Greymaus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #219624 |
On 2021-11-05, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>: >>> Democracy is the worst form of government, >>> except for all the others. >>> -- Winston Churchill >> >>The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses >>is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much >>experience of democracy. > > His mother was American. > > Churchill was a convinced Imperialist. He was at the heart of British government for many years, and made a lot of very stupid plans, as in the dardenelles (sp?) in WWI. and among other things, thought of recruiting untrained -ex-soldiers to a group in Ireland during the early stage of the Anglo-Irish war, whose aim was to combat the IRA through terrror, but instead antagonised most people against the British. I would agree that he was a good choice to lead the coalition in early WWII. -- greymausg@mail.com That's not a mousehole!
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 20:02 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Who Knew ? Churchillian version |
| Message-ID | <sm42kc$57e$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #219630 |
According to Maus <rhunDARNtheSPAM@DARNtheSPAMkatamailDARNtheSPAM.com>: >> His mother was American. > >Churchill was a convinced Imperialist. He was at the heart of British >government for many years, and made a lot of very stupid plans, as in >the Dardanelles in WWI. and among other things, thought of >recruiting untrained -ex-soldiers to a group in Ireland during the early >stage of the Anglo-Irish war, whose aim was to combat the IRA through >terrror, but instead antagonised most people against the British. > >I would agree that he was a good choice to lead the coalition in early WWII. Considering his repeated high profile failures in WWI and afterward (you missed the disastrous return to the gold standard in 1925), it says someting about British politics that nonetheless he became P.M. in 1940 and it is utterly astonishing that he did such a good job as war P.M. He had another stint as P.M. in 1951-55, mostly notable for his extreme poor health, and he likely would have resigned except that his heir apparent Anthony Eden was in even worse condition. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 17:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <7l7boglvqrdvspc822egd61n8n23tegpu8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219624 |
On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 18:23:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>: >>> Democracy is the worst form of government, >>> except for all the others. >>> -- Winston Churchill >> >>The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses >>is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much >>experience of democracy. > >His mother was American. America wasn't a democracy either.
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 07:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20211105072639.09406548eae3bb19a2577cef@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #219586 |
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 19:10:08 -0400 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see > more and more why it's a bad idea. Democracy is great when an honestly informed and engaged population chooses among a set of honest and dedicated politicians. It's a pity that there seems to be no cause so noble and correct that it lacks supporters willing to lie to further it and in so doing discredit it. It is also a pity that most people are more interested in sports, telly, booze, drugs, feuds and sex than how their country is run. It is also a pity that many politicians seems to be more interested in feeding at the public trough than serving the state. Just three things to fix to get a perfect system. The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent benevolent dictators and the means to ensure that only such get to rule - I don't see this as possible either. What most people want from their government is that it lets them get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 14:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnsoagvh.7q3.Greymaus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #219601 |
On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 19:10:08 -0400 > J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see >> more and more why it's a bad idea. > > Democracy is great when an honestly informed and engaged population > chooses among a set of honest and dedicated politicians. > > It's a pity that there seems to be no cause so noble and correct > that it lacks supporters willing to lie to further it and in so doing > discredit it. It is also a pity that most people are more interested in > sports, telly, booze, drugs, feuds and sex than how their country is run. It Ive thrown out the telly, have little insterest in sports, now that Dublin have been beaten, abhor drugs, so I am left with feuds and imaginary sex. Life gets boring. > is also a pity that many politicians seems to be more interested in feeding > at the public trough than serving the state. Just three things to fix to > get a perfect system. > > The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent > dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent benevolent > dictators and the means to ensure that only such get to rule - I don't see > this as possible either. Study the Decline and Fall of the romans. Big problems with succession. > > What most people want from their government is that it lets them > get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this > criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure. > -- greymausg@mail.com That's not a mousehole!
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <X%dhJ.1368$SW5.173@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #219601 |
On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent > dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent > benevolent dictators and the means to ensure that only such > get to rule - I don't see this as possible either. Plus you have to ensure that the existing benevolent dictator remains benevolent - or have a reliable mechanism for removing him when the inevitable happens. > What most people want from their government is that it lets them > get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this > criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure. At least war on their own soil. Foreign wars are a great source of entertainment, if nothing else. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 17:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mn7boglh23c84vdtokk3m642vd1al7r2ph@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #219622 |
On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:40:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > >> The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent >> dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent >> benevolent dictators and the means to ensure that only such >> get to rule - I don't see this as possible either. > >Plus you have to ensure that the existing benevolent dictator >remains benevolent - or have a reliable mechanism for removing >him when the inevitable happens. One of the major benefits of a dictator is that one person with a rifle and a bit of luck can remove the dictator, unlike Congress which is like a hydra--cut off one head and it sprouts two more. >> What most people want from their government is that it lets them >> get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this >> criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure. > >At least war on their own soil. Foreign wars are a great source >of entertainment, if nothing else.
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-05 21:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20211105215032.a2f5c497c5193bc226502eed@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #219638 |
On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:17:21 -0400 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > One of the major benefits of a dictator is that one person with a > rifle and a bit of luck can remove the dictator, unlike Congress which > is like a hydra--cut off one head and it sprouts two more. Hmm maybe there's an approach. So we have a dictator with absolute power except that they are not permitted any form of personal protection, replacements selected by reality TV as needed. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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